Sail & Rail to Britain with Stena / Irish Ferries: Sneaky Fare Increase!

Mrs Shuttleworth

Just to let you know that those lovely warm people at Irish Ferries and Stena have jacked up their Sail and Rail prices to the UK since January 1st. It's now 45 Euro one way to London as opposed to 40 Euro, and also if you now book on the day itself at the port, there's a surcharge of 6 Euro. On top of that, if you pay Irish Ferries with a debit or credit card, there's yet another 6 Euro charge. Finally, on the reverse route, for some reason it's GBP£43 which equates to 51 Euro even if bought in advance - before Christmas the same routes/crafts were GBP £33.

Help me Mick O'Leary - you're my only hope

Cookie_Monster

why is it sneaky?

BenShermin

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Finally, on the reverse route, for some reason it's GBP£43 which equates to 51 Euro even if bought in advance - before Christmas the same routes/crafts were GBP £33.

Not entirely true, £43 is the fare charge for "on the day" bookings. If you book before 1800hrs on the day before travel the fare is £38. I've friends who have had no problem buying tickets at £38 from staff at London Euston for travel to to Dublin Port recently.

There is serious problems with the new sailrail reservations system though, read the red box to the right: http://www.seat61.com/Ireland.htm.

seanmacc

The fares increased from the 2nd of January. To be fair to the Ferry and Train companies, Sail Rail was and still remains a very low revenue stream. During the Ash crisis the ferrys were going out full every sailing but as most of the new passengers were Sailrail ones it was hardly worth the effort when looking back at the accounts.

This year with the Heineken Cup in Twickenham, the London Olympics and an impending 25GBP airport tax looming Sailrail will have another bumper year as people are moving away from flying.

The 6euro day of travel booking charge was put there for a very good reason. During the summer and peak sailings there was enormous uncertainty on what level of foot passengers on open tickets would show up on a given sailing. Putting a day of departure charge on tickets you encourage people to book online in advance. The UK end are also collecting passenger data for what sailings people are going on. The idea being that the vessels passenger capacity can be maximized and the open ticket allocation cut be cut down to a minimum. You wouldn't believe how many people show up looking to buy a Sailrail ticket 10 mins before the ship sails and expect to get on.

The 6 euro Credit/Debit card charge is criminal I'd grant you. Supposedly Irish Ferries will be doing away with this for all online bookings but keeping it for port sales.

bk

seanmacc wrote: »

The 6 euro Credit/Debit card charge is criminal I'd grant you. Supposedly Irish Ferries will be doing away with this for all online bookings but keeping it for port sales.

Which is completely fair IMO. It is then more of an administrative charge then a credit card charge.

It has always amazed my places like cinemas, irish rail, etc. charging for the use of credit cards when you book online, but no booking fee if you use the same credit card at the ticket office.

It is totally counter intuitive, it is much more expensive to have ticket sales staff then it is to run online ticket sales.

They should all be promoting online ticket sales, not discouraging them.

Mrs Shuttleworth

BenShermin wrote: »

Not entirely true, £43 is the fare charge for "on the day" bookings. If you book before 1800hrs on the day before travel the fare is £38. I've friends who have had no problem buying tickets at £38 from staff at London Euston for travel to to Dublin Port recently.

There is serious problems with the new sailrail reservations system though, read the red box to the right: http://www.seat61.com/Ireland.htm.

I bought my ticket at Euston at 1 p.m. on Saturday for travel at 8.15a.m. on Sunday - so why did I pay the surcharge??

Vic_08

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

I bought my ticket at Euston at 1 p.m. on Saturday for travel at 8.15a.m. on Sunday - so why did I pay the surcharge??

The cheaper "Advance" fares are quota controlled, only a certain number are made available, once these are sold only the "Standby" tickets will be available. It could be that for any number of reasons the more expensive ticket was sold. The implementation of this change has been awful, depending on which type of ticket issuing systems used some stations are unable to sell these tickets at all.

Terrontress

SailRail is a great journey. 07.10 train from Euston. Arrive at 06.45 and be in Dublin for 13.50.

You can buy your ticket to do you from a London station.

Where I travel from in London (Brixton) I can get a tube at 06.25, leave the flat at 06.15.

If I were travelling from Gatwick to arrive in Dublin for 13.50, leaving the fact that Dublin Port is closer to town than Dubli Airport, I'd want to be on a flight leaving at 12.00. Which means being at the airport for 11.00. So on the train from Victoria at 10.00. Leave the flat at 09.30.

Say 3h in the difference.

The benefits? Carry as much luggage as I want, take shampoo, deodorant, packed lunch. Very little security queues, wide seats with unlimited legroom on board, kids up to 5 travel free, no airport taxes, no credit card fee with Arriva Trains Wales, no cost to get to the airport, wider choice of food and drink on board, a lovely view along the North coast of Wales, no Ryanair brass band on arrival, no Aer Lingus battleaxes using the word 'purchase' as they think they're a cut above asking me to 'buy' their overpriced rubbish.

The only better way to travel London to Dublin is Air France LCY-DUB.

BenShermin

Ms Shuttleworth, did the ticket seller explain to you that the quota of advance fares was sold out and that he'd have to sell you a standby ticket?

If not, I'd doubt he was using the system properly and that you've been overcharged. For some reason I can't see any quotas been exceeded in the middle of January, the boats are empty at this time of year!

This quota thing is worrying as there is a significant number of people who use these tickets to travel between London and Chester/North Wales and don't continue on by ferry. The reason for this is that the sailrail ticket is usually cheaper than an internal UK ticket between the two destinations. Could these quotas effectively be taken up by people who aren't even planning on travel to Ireland?

thomasj

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Help me Mick O'Leary - you're my only hope

If you booked with ryanair for on the day travel you certainly wouldnt be paying 5 euro extra.

Polar101

It's also been £38 for a while if you travel on the faster ferries - as opposed to £33 on the slower ones.

Terrontress

BenShermin wrote: »

This quota thing is worrying as there is a significant number of people who use these tickets to travel between London and Chester/North Wales and don't continue on by ferry. The reason for this is that the sailrail ticket is usually cheaper than an internal UK ticket between the two destinations. Could these quotas effectively be taken up by people who aren't even planning on travel to Ireland?

If my memory serves me correctly, there are barriers at Chester so if you are attempting to do this you will be caught and fined or even prosecuted. Apparently in the UK not travelling the entire length of your journey is the same as not having a valid ticket.

Holyhead is a different matter because you could just walk out of the ferry terminal although I wouldn't imagine there are many people travelling to there as it is quite a small place.

If it is an issue then the railway companies should come down hard on it.

LXFlyer

Terrontress wrote: »

SailRail is a great journey. 7.10 train from Euston. Arrive at 6.45 and be in Dublin for 1.50.

You can buy your ticket to do you from a London station.

Where I travel from in London (Brixton) I can get a tube at 6.25, leave the flat at 6.15.

If I were travelling from Gatwick to arrive in Dublin for 1.50, leaving the fact that Dublin Port is closer to town than Dubli Airport, I'd want to be on a flight leaving at 12. Which means being at the airport for 11. So on the train from Victoria at 10. Leave the flat at 9.30.

Say 3h in the difference.

The benefits? Carry as much luggage as I want, take shampoo, deodorant, packed lunch. Very little security queues, wide seats with unlimited legroom on board, kids up to 5 travel free, no airport taxes, no credit card fee with Arriva Trains Wales, no cost to get to the airport, wider choice of food and drink on board, a lovely view along the North coast of Wales, no Ryanair brass band on arrival, no Aer Lingus battleaxes using the word 'purchase' as they think they're a cut above asking me to 'buy' their overpriced rubbish.

The only better way to travel London to Dublin is Air France LCY-DUB.

Being picky - any chance you could use the 24 hour clock - it gets somewhat confusing when you post as above!

I'm assuming you mean the 0710 Euston-Holyhead train in your first line - however I doubt it arrives at Holyhead at either 0645 or 1845!!

Terrontress

lxflyer wrote: »

Terrontress wrote: »

SailRail is a great journey. 7.10 train from Euston. Arrive at 6.45 and be in Dublin for 1.50.

You can buy your ticket to do you from a London station.

Where I travel from in London (Brixton) I can get a tube at 6.25, leave the flat at 6.15.

If I were travelling from Gatwick to arrive in Dublin for 1.50, leaving the fact that Dublin Port is closer to town than Dubli Airport, I'd want to be on a flight leaving at 12. Which means being at the airport for 11. So on the train from Victoria at 10. Leave the flat at 9.30.

Say 3h in the difference.

The benefits? Carry as much luggage as I want, take shampoo, deodorant, packed lunch. Very little security queues, wide seats with unlimited legroom on board, kids up to 5 travel free, no airport taxes, no credit card fee with Arriva Trains Wales, no cost to get to the airport, wider choice of food and drink on board, a lovely view along the North coast of Wales, no Ryanair brass band on arrival, no Aer Lingus battleaxes using the word 'purchase' as they think they're a cut above asking me to 'buy' their overpriced rubbish.

The only better way to travel London to Dublin is Air France LCY-DUB.

Being picky - any chance you could use the 24 hour clock - it gets somewhat confusing when you post as above!

I'm assuming you mean the 0710 Euston-Holyhead train in your first line - however I doubt it arrives at Holyhead at either 0645 or 1845!!

Changed. My initial sentence was trying to get across the fact that I can arrive at Euston for 0645 to take the 0710 train, I.e. 25 minutes is stacks of time whereas one hour is cutting it fine with the plane. To be fair, with tickets in hand you'd be fine to arrive at 0700 but you need to build in contingency time.

Mrs Shuttleworth

BenShermin wrote: »

Ms Shuttleworth, did the ticket seller explain to you that the quota of advance fares was sold out and that he'd have to sell you a standby ticket?

If not, I'd doubt he was using the system properly and that you've been overcharged. For some reason I can't see any quotas been exceeded in the middle of January, the boats are empty at this time of year!

This quota thing is worrying as there is a significant number of people who use these tickets to travel between London and Chester/North Wales and don't continue on by ferry. The reason for this is that the sailrail ticket is usually cheaper than an internal UK ticket between the two destinations. Could these quotas effectively be taken up by people who aren't even planning on travel to Ireland?

No, he didn't say anything like this. He said that the price was now £43, that it had gone up, and that Virgin Trains weren't to blame.

You're absolutely right about people using this service to go to North Wales from London but pretending they go to Dublin. So they pay £43 instead of the standard fare of £80 for a shorter journey! What's even worse though is that one ticket seller at Euston last year who was particularly ahem "chatty", told me that he quietly tells customers who are going to Chester/North Wales/Liverpool to buy a ticket right through to Dublin and then just get off at their designated stop. Names and addresses are not asked for at Euston, it's just like buying a ticket for the DART. If the quota system comes in then that practice will screw genuine passengers.

Mrs Shuttleworth

Terrontress wrote: »

SailRail is a great journey. 07.10 train from Euston. Arrive at 06.45 and be in Dublin for 13.50.

You can buy your ticket to do you from a London station.

Where I travel from in London (Brixton) I can get a tube at 06.25, leave the flat at 06.15.

If I were travelling from Gatwick to arrive in Dublin for 13.50, leaving the fact that Dublin Port is closer to town than Dubli Airport, I'd want to be on a flight leaving at 12.00. Which means being at the airport for 11.00. So on the train from Victoria at 10.00. Leave the flat at 09.30.

Say 3h in the difference.

The benefits? Carry as much luggage as I want, take shampoo, deodorant, packed lunch. Very little security queues, wide seats with unlimited legroom on board, kids up to 5 travel free, no airport taxes, no credit card fee with Arriva Trains Wales, no cost to get to the airport, wider choice of food and drink on board, a lovely view along the North coast of Wales, no Ryanair brass band on arrival, no Aer Lingus battleaxes using the word 'purchase' as they think they're a cut above asking me to 'buy' their overpriced rubbish.

The only better way to travel London to Dublin is Air France LCY-DUB.

I'm not saying it's not great - I love it. But if the fare builds up and then random surcharges added on it will lose its competitive edge on the airlines. A lot of passengers were saying this on the journey home at the weekend.

Mrs Shuttleworth

Ok just spoke with Irish Ferries. Had to fight to speak with him but managed to get the attention of a helpful manager.

He said that the fare from London for the Ulysses is now £38. A £5 surcharge applies if purchased on the date of travel. £43 if you're going on the Swift, and £48 if purchased at Euston on the date of travel.

My ticket was bought the afternoon before at Euston, and clearly specifies the 2.10 p.m. sailing from Holyhead which is the Ulysses, yet I was charged £43. He said that I was overcharged by £5 and that technically Virgin/Arriva should refund me, but he said he would help me with this as he doesn't want any more complaints like mine!

On a final note which is important and which another poster mentioned above, he said that since the fare increase there have been significant software problems at UK rail stations which top management (if such a thing can be said to exist anymore) are trying to solve. Since January 2 there have been cases of people turning up at stations including Euston and Paddington (for Rosslare) and not been able to buy tickets, which is disconcerting to say the least if like me your travel arrangements vary.

Dodge

This thread has been enlightening. Have never really considered sail/rail as I thought the travel time would be too much.

If it only takes about 8 hours to get from Dublin-London, I'd seriously consider this as an option. The under 5 travelling free is a big positive too (no discounts on airlines!).

Are return tickets available or would I have to purchase seperate one way tickets? I'll be googling seperately but looking for first hand experience as its usually more informative

LXFlyer

You do need to choose your sailings carefully - some do not have good connections.

In general the Swift offers the best connections at Holyhead.

Mrs Shuttleworth

Dodge wrote: »

This thread has been enlightening. Have never really considered sail/rail as I thought the travel time would be too much.

If it only takes about 8 hours to get from Dublin-London, I'd seriously consider this as an option. The under 5 travelling free is a big positive too (no discounts on airlines!).

Are return tickets available or would I have to purchase seperate one way tickets? I'll be googling seperately but looking for first hand experience as its usually more informative

If you get either the 8.05am Ulysses or 8.20am Stena from Dublin Port you'll make the 12.37pm train from Holyhead which gets into Euston at 4.38pm. To be honest the Swift at 8.45am which meets the 11.27am train at HHead is too unreliable and is cancelled a lot, so they stick you onto the earlier Ulysses. Return tickets are available but no discount on them. It's a great service if you're not sure of your plans at either end and don't want to prebook, also if you have a lot of luggage or shopping.

Vic_08

BenShermin wrote: »

Ms Shuttleworth, did the ticket seller explain to you that the quota of advance fares was sold out and that he'd have to sell you a standby ticket?

If not, I'd doubt he was using the system properly and that you've been overcharged. For some reason I can't see any quotas been exceeded in the middle of January, the boats are empty at this time of year!

This quota thing is worrying as there is a significant number of people who use these tickets to travel between London and Chester/North Wales and don't continue on by ferry. The reason for this is that the sailrail ticket is usually cheaper than an internal UK ticket between the two destinations. Could these quotas effectively be taken up by people who aren't even planning on travel to Ireland?

The quotas for the Advance fares have nothing to do with the ferry capacity. These are rail tickets with ferry add-on and the quotas will be set by the rail company responsible for the journey, in this case Virgin most likely. They will be set to suit the rail company and will take into account demand for the trains in question in general not just the rail-sail journey in isolation. There is no way (short of hacking into the ATOC booking systems) of knowing what they are set at or how much they are linked to other advance fare quotas and journey sections.

Terrontress wrote: »

If my memory serves me correctly, there are barriers at Chester so if you are attempting to do this you will be caught and fined or even prosecuted. Apparently in the UK not travelling the entire length of your journey is the same as not having a valid ticket.

It all depends on the individual ticket. Some are valid for break of journey (and starting/finishing short) others, particularly "Advance" fares are not.

The status of sail-rail (via Holyhead) up to 2011 has been less than clear although at some point the official classification of them was changed to allow BoJ so there was no way anyone could be prosecuted or fined for doing this.

If the practice of using sail-rail for saving on more expensive rail only fares had become more widespread then I would not be at all surprised if these changes have been driven by a desire to stamp out the loophole.

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

No, he didn't say anything like this. He said that the price was now £43, that it had gone up, and that Virgin Trains weren't to blame.

That is more or less the Virgin Rail catch-all script response, blame someone else. In this case I would wager that Virgin are the most likely source for these changes.

The official line is that the changes are to do with a change in shipping legislation, this as far as I can tell is rubbish. The legislation in question is nothing new. For many years now the ferry companies have been required to compile complete lists of all persons on board, this is done either at booking or check-in for those who used rail tickets with no pre-existing details attached.

Arriva Trains Wales

Vic is quite correct in relation to the Advance fares - they require availability on both the train and ferry. For journeys from/to London availability of any discounted advance purchase fare on their trains is determined by Virgin, who will make a commercial decision, much like the airlines, to maximise their revenue. Unlike the airlines, however, SailRail passengers always have the option of the Standby fare, which is available on the day but is a bit more expensive. This fare was intended to be as the name suggests - something for those who needed to travel in a hurry. However, if Virgin (or indeed any other train operator) have no availability at all for Advance tickets on certain trains, or sell out, then the Standby becomes the only option, even if booked before the day of travel. The Standby ticket does not guarantee a place on the ferry, but outside busy holiday periods on the larger ferries this is not normally a problem.

The current booking problems have genuinely arisen in response to trying to assist the ferry companies capture passenger details which is a legislative requirement (but not yet in force). Yes, they can do it on check-in but would prefer to have this taken care of beforehand. Having contact details of booked passengers (by whatever mode) means the ferry companies can contact customers in the event of cancellation or serious disruption.

For those who really want to understand the background - here goes. The GB rail reservation system is driven by a train timetable system managed by Network Rail. Ships exist as dummy trains in the timetable, to enable through journeys to be planned to Ireland (and indeed continental Europe). Without going to the massive expense of re-writing software, it was agreed the best solution for Wales-Ireland ships was to use the existing process used for sleeper trains, where reservations and customer details are mandatory. Therefore the relevant ships/dummy trains need to be 'coded' as if they were sleeper trains rather than normal ones. And Network Rail can't easily do this outside a major timetable change (which in GB happens at fixed times of the year in May and December). The added complication is the Olympics - as it has been determined that no timetable changes can take place prior to the Olympics so that passengers can book well in advance without the risk of timetable changes.

I appreciate this probably sounds completely ridiculous, but is the unfortunate consequence of the way the UK railways and supporting IT systems are set up. Nevertheless, behind the scenes efforts are being made to fix the technical reservations problems but there is a possibility that the process will have to revert back to the old one until after the Olympics. Whether Virgin have availability of Advance tickets on any particular service is a separate issue.

BenShermin

Terrontress wrote: »

If my memory serves me correctly, there are barriers at Chester so if you are attempting to do this you will be caught and fined or even prosecuted. Apparently in the UK not travelling the entire length of your journey is the same as not having a valid ticket.

Holyhead is a different matter because you could just walk out of the ferry terminal although I wouldn't imagine there are many people travelling to there as it is quite a small place.

If it is an issue then the railway companies should come down hard on it.

When sailrailing to/from Dublin there's usually a 10/15 min break at Chester to change trains, I always leave the station here to go out for a smoke or to go to the shop. The staff at the barrier never have a problem with this.

If National Rail are serious about cutting down on fare evasion maybe they should get rid of the idiotic rule that says I can't smoke anywhere on a station even if the platforms are 100% open!!

Mrs Shuttleworth

BenShermin wrote: »

When sailrailing to/from Dublin there's usually a 10/15 min break at Chester to change trains, I always leave the station here to go out for a smoke or to go to the shop. The staff at the barrier never have a problem with this.

If National Rail are serious about cutting down on fare evasion maybe they should get rid of the idiotic rule that says I can't smoke anywhere on a station even if the platforms are 100% open!!

That reminds me, Sunday travel coming back from Euston to Dublin people need to be careful. Monday to Saturday, the 9.10 train from Euston meets the 13.50 Stena or 14.10 Ulysses from Holyhead. On Sundays, the trains are either the 8.10 (destination Manchester) or 8.15 (Liverpool), both change at Crewe for Holyhead.

The Virgin guy who charged me the £43 booked me on the 8.15 to Liverpool (change Crewe) rather than the 8.10. The connection at Crewe was at 10.42. As it happened, the 8.15 got delayed, and we got into Crewe at 10.40. Crewe is a large station and it's about an eight minute walk across numerous staircases to the connecting Holyhead train. I've never seen so many people run so fast! Make sure if you're coming back on a Sunday that they book you on the 8.10 to Manchester rather than the 8.15 to leave extra time. On top of that, there's currently a replacement bus service between Llandudno Junction and Holyhead, and the A5 road can be bedlam.

As the replacement bus got in at 13.30 lots of people missed the 13.50 Stena but were just in time for the Irish Ferries at 14.10. However although Irish Ferries said they would take them they would have to change their tickets at the rail desk in Holyhead first! This was with only five minutes boarding time left! If you miss either of these sailings on any day - you're screwed. The Swift at 5p.m. is out of service so much that it can't be relied upon. The next sailing is Stena at 21.30 but it doesn't take foot passengers (unless you sweet talk a van driver). After that...it's the ghost ship at 2.45a.m.

Been there, done that!!

Terrontress

Mrs Shuttleworth,

it definitely can be touch and go because the boats leave so close together that if you miss one, you might have missed the other!

My only hope is that people, fed up to the back teeth of the current airline industry, will use the ferries in such numbers that Stena will put the HSS on throughout the year again. Give us a few more options.

peejay1986

Terrontress wrote: »

If my memory serves me correctly, there are barriers at Chester so if you are attempting to do this you will be caught and fined or even prosecuted. Apparently in the UK not travelling the entire length of your journey is the same as not having a valid ticket.

Holyhead is a different matter because you could just walk out of the ferry terminal although I wouldn't imagine there are many people travelling to there as it is quite a small place.

If it is an issue then the railway companies should come down hard on it.

If you wanted to do the above you'd have no problems getting out at Chester. The lads at the barrier don't really care. Can't speak about other stations though.

BenShermin

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

.

Been there, done that!!

I've done it myself! Went for the Swift one evening without ringing Ferrycheck and wouldn't you know she was cancelled. Cue touring Holyhead's finest pubs until last orders, great fun as I was still on holidays from work. I can imagine its not so much fun if you've work the next morning though.

*RE. The HSS coming back, with the price of fuel these days I doubt we'll ever see the HSS again to be honest. I went up to Belfast at the end of last year to have my last sailing on the HSS Stena Voyager, a beautiful piece of work, well ahead of their time!

Geuze

http://www.seat61.com/news.htm

Seat 61 reports on the SailERail ticket problem.

Mrs Shuttleworth

BenShermin wrote: »

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

.

Been there, done that!!

I've done it myself! Went for the Swift one evening without ringing Ferrycheck and wouldn't you know she was cancelled. Cue touring Holyhead's finest pubs until last orders, great fun as I was still on holidays from work. I can imagine its not so much fun if you've work the next morning though.

*RE. The HSS coming back, with the price of fuel these days I doubt we'll ever see the HSS again to be honest. I went up to Belfast at the end of last year to have my last sailing on the HSS Stena Voyager, a beautiful piece of work, well ahead of their time!

I wonder have the prices on the Rosslare route changed. Every Sail Rail fan needs to experience the joys of this journey that starts at Paddington each evening at 8.10pm.

You get the 8.10 to Swansea which is packed with drunken city types, the food carriage is like a mobile pub. Get to Swansea around 11.30, usually deserted. One solitary carriage appears from the mists, and all the lost souls headed for Fishguard step aboard. It then commences its journey to Fishguard at what seems like 2,000 kph.

Arrive in Fishguard Harbour at 1.15am, to a terminal that's like the fallout shelter in the film The Day After. All abroad the Stena (Nordica?) at 2.30am which almost feels haunted. Have a one-eye open sleep on the floor until 6am when dawn breaks over the beautiful Wexford coastline and you're home.

Oh God I just LOVE Sail and Rail!!

goingnowhere

BenShermin wrote: »

*RE. The HSS coming back, with the price of fuel these days I doubt we'll ever see the HSS again to be honest. I went up to Belfast at the end of last year to have my last sailing on the HSS Stena Voyager, a beautiful piece of work, well ahead of their time!

HSS HSC Stena Explorer will be in service Dun Laoghaire Holyhead April-September 2012.

Stena already taking bookings

LordSutch

Mrs Shuttleworth wrote: »

Oh God I just LOVE Sail and Rail!!

Me too, although I've gone off the boil since they mucked about with the Dun Laoghaire service & the boat train to London!

Gone are the days when you could take a return day trip to Wales, and gone is the HSS most of the time. I travelled by ferry back & forth Dun Laoghaire - Holyhead for decades, and I was on Ferries that you may only read about in history books now. 'Some of the trains even had sleeping carriages on them back then' Favourite sailings were in the late 70s on the St Columba (it had a cinema too)

These days its Stena/ Rosslare Fishguard.

I just hope they have good family prices this Summer?

AlekSmart

goingnowhere wrote: »

HSS HSC Stena Explorer will be in service Dun Laoghaire Holyhead April-September 2012.

Stena already taking bookings

If only the Ferry Companies were savvy enough to take note of the significant consumer backlash against the Airline Industry and in particular it's use of additional charges and luggage restrictions.

I would like to see both Stena and IFG get their co-ordinates right and offer some form of well spread timetable with a little integration offered by the UK Railways to encourage the process.

I believe its a nice little earner waiting to be served..:)

seanmacc

AlekSmart wrote: »

If only the Ferry Companies were savvy enough to take note of the significant consumer backlash against the Airline Industry and in particular it's use of additional charges and luggage restrictions.

I would like to see both Stena and IFG get their co-ordinates right and offer some form of well spread timetable with a little integration offered by the UK Railways to encourage the process.

I believe its a nice little earner waiting to be served..:)

Its not, believe it or not.

I've said this on a couple of threads before but the ferry companies don't like foot passengers. The amount of money made on foot passengers is really very marginal. A SailRail passenger even less is made. The Ferrys make money on cars and freight. It requires more time and staff to deal with one foot passenger than a 50 seater coach of Germans going onto a ship. The coach can be loaded onto the ship quicker as well. The train companies in the UK make very little on them also thus the recent fare increases and new handling charges.

From what I hear from April onwards there may be more co-ordination between the Ferry arrival times and the train times. Probably to because of the amount of Olympic tourists landing in Dublin. There are rumors at the moment that the train to meet the late ferrys from Dublin may be reintroduced.

AlekSmart

seanmacc wrote: »

Its not, believe it or not.

It requires more time and staff to deal with one foot passenger than a 50 seater coach of Germans going onto a ship. The coach can be loaded onto the ship quicker as well. The train companies in the UK make very little on them also thus the recent fare increases and new handling charges.

From what I hear from April onwards there may be more co-ordination between the Ferry arrival times and the train times. Probably to because of the amount of Olympic tourists landing in Dublin. There are rumors at the moment that the train to meet the late ferrys from Dublin may be reintroduced.

I know your point Seanmac,but I'm suggesting that the Ferry Companies need to take another look at this strongly held principle with a view to doing a Ryanair on it and Growing the business year on year.

With newer,faster ferries and a half-decent rail or dedicated coach connection,BOTH Ferry Operators could I suggest increase their load factors by 10-20% .....But starting off from the premise that all foot-passenger business is somehow undesirable most assuredly will NOT benefit their end-of-year returns ??

seanmacc

AlekSmart wrote: »

I know your point Seanmac,but I'm suggesting that the Ferry Companies need to take another look at this strongly held principle with a view to doing a Ryanair on it and Growing the business year on year.

With newer,faster ferries and a half-decent rail or dedicated coach connection,BOTH Ferry Operators should I suggest increase their load factors by 10-20% .....But starting off from the premise that all foot-passenger business is somehow undesirable most assuredly will NOT benefit their end-of-year returns ??

The business is growing year on year for SailRail due to airport baggage charges, greater awareness of it and the upcoming UK airport tax. During the winter months football weekends can be a minor cash cow for the ferry companies as they would be otherwise empty and the lack of revenue made on tickets can be made up selling pints. During the summer months there is a lack of passenger capacity on the afternoon fast craft sailings and every SailRail passenger can cost the companies a car ticket fare or a port to port foot passenger fare.

The Ferry business is at a crossroads at the moment. The ships that operate for Irish Ferries and Stena on the Irish Sea were commissioned back in the time when there was Duty Free and fuel was a hell of a lot cheaper. The future viability of fast crafts has to be examined by the companies and maybe a rethink of where passenger/freight and car capacity should lie. The new SailRail set up will bring some type of profitability to the product and for the first time with he new agreement there is somewhat of communication between the train and ferry companies which is rumored to see the reintroduction of a train to meet the late ferries.

BenShermin

Some good news on this, the problem on the British side has seems to have been sorted. I was able to book sailrail tickets online via the Arriva Trains Wales website just a few minutes ago. No problem getting the "advance" fare either.

@Mrs Shuttleworth, I've done Paddington to Rosslare a few times, and I'm having a great laugh at your discription of it. Fishguard Harbour at 1am truely is a sight to behold:D, why would you fly??

@Seanmacc it would be great to have the 0150 train off Holyhead back, I used to love overnight train travel to London, a good book and a bottle of wine and you're in London in time for breakfast!!

seanmacc

BenShermin wrote: »

@Seanmacc it would be great to have the 0150 train off Holyhead back, I used to love overnight train travel to London, a good book and a bottle of wine and you're in London in time for breakfast!!

If it happens you'd be talking from early May onwards. I would imagine it will be in place for around the time of the Olympics at least. I'm hoping for its in for the Heineken Cup final. Unfortunatley the Ferry companies probably won't get a say in it. It will all come down to Arriva or Virgin Trains accountants to see weather or not it could be a runner. During the ash crisis there was hundreds of people sitting in Holyhead waiting the 4 hours for a train and they didn't budge to put anything on for them even as a temp mesure. But supposedly there is a strong possibility it will be a runner

BenShermin

iirc it was always Virgin who ran that 0150 service into Birmingham?

Just booked a sailrail from Connolly Station there this afternoon, it's fantastic that they now reserve a place on the ferry for you and give you a ferry reservation number. A big step forward and peace of mind tbh.

zagmund

I'm in London at the start of April and trying to work out the optimal way of getting home. I looked at sail & rail and it would be a winner apart from the fact that after leaving Euston at 2040, you have to change at Crewe & Chester on the way up. It just doesn't seem like a fun way to spend my evening. I'm like the repoman - I spend my life trying to get myself out of tense situations like having to change train twice in two 10 minute windows and worrying about delays which might mess my plans up.

There's a direct train at 1910 - can this be used as part of the Sail Rail package ? There's also a train with just one change in Chester with a 40 minute layover departing @2010. The booking site is a little unclear as to whether this is possible or not.

Alternatively, the departure from Paddington as described above sounds like 'fun' and might be workable except for the getting back to Dublin from Rosslare bit. Can you still buy the add-on which gets you to any station in Ireland on the other end ?

z

Run_to_da_hills

zagmund wrote: »

I'm in London at the start of April and trying to work out the optimal way of getting home. I looked at sail & rail and it would be a winner apart from the fact that after leaving Euston at 2040, you have to change at Crewe & Chester on the way up. It just doesn't seem like a fun way to spend my evening. I'm like the repoman - I spend my life trying to get myself out of tense situations like having to change train twice in two 10 minute windows and worrying about delays which might mess my plans up.

There's a direct train at 1910 - can this be used as part of the Sail Rail package ? There's also a train with just one change in Chester with a 40 minute layover departing @2010. The booking site is a little unclear as to whether this is possible or not.

Alternatively, the departure from Paddington as described above sounds like 'fun' and might be workable except for the getting back to Dublin from Rosslare bit. Can you still buy the add-on which gets you to any station in Ireland on the other end ?

z

The 9.10 AM ex Euston is direct to Holyhead.

zagmund

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The 9.10 AM ex Euston is direct to Holyhead.

Thanks, but I'm looking at evening departures. The 1910 is direct also, but my query is whether it can be booked for Sail & Rail.

z

Arriva Trains Wales

The basic unrestricted Sail Rail ticket is available between all stations in the UK and all stations in Ireland, and you are strongly advised to reserve in advance to guarantee a place on the ship. However Virgin Trains (who operate from Euston) are more likely to have availability of the 'yield managed' cheaper tickets on the 2040 departure rather than the 1910 from Euston.

LXFlyer

I'd have to say that the overnight trip is (in my opinion) far more trouble than it's worth.

If you were to take the 19:10 service, you get to Holyhead for 22:53 and you have a wait of 3 hours before you board a ship!

As you say with the 20:40 service you have 2 changes en route and at least an hour long wait at Holyhead before boarding the ship.

Surely there would be a reasonably priced flight from one of the five London airports (Luton, Stansted, Heathrow, Gatwick or London City) that would be better than putting yourself through that hassle?

zagmund

I'm just trying to work out the various combinations, including flights and train/boat.

The last flights from the various airports depart between 2000 & 2120. Allowing an hour to get to the airport and an hour to get through the airport (very rough figures, will vary depending on the airport) and then allowing time for delayed trains, walking from station to airport, etc . . . I would be leaving central London around the 1800 mark to be sure I made it to the flight on time.

Alternatively, I could have a nice evening meal somewhere near Euston and stroll over to get the 1910 (or 2040 if it really has to be that one). It definitely has an advantage on that end over the trek to the airport at peak time. I agree the 3 hour wait in Holyhead won't be optimal, but I'm sure it's nothing that a beer and a good book can't overcome. I'm not saying I would do it every week, but as a once off it's definitely worth considering.

z

LXFlyer

Last Aer Lingus flight out of Heathrow is 21:10 - to get that you could comfortably leave central London by tube at about 18:45 and by Heathrow Express at 19:25 from Paddington.

Last Aer Lingus flight from Gatwick is 21:00 - again you could leave Victoria or London Bridge at 19:10/19:15 (and that's avoiding the Gatwick Express).

With Ryanair, last flights are:
Gatwick -21:25 (leave London at 19:30)

Last flights out of Stansted, Luton and London City are rather earlier.

I certainly don't think you need to leave at 18:00.

LXFlyer

I should have added, the last bmi flight from Heathrow varies depending on the day of the week but is 22:00 on Sundays and 21:50 on Mondays which would allow one to leave central London at 19:30 on the tube and 20:10 on the Heathrow Express.

Vic_08

zagmund wrote: »

I'm just trying to work out the various combinations, including flights and train/boat.

The last flights from the various airports depart between 2000 & 2120. Allowing an hour to get to the airport and an hour to get through the airport (very rough figures, will vary depending on the airport) and then allowing time for delayed trains, walking from station to airport, etc . . . I would be leaving central London around the 1800 mark to be sure I made it to the flight on time.

Alternatively, I could have a nice evening meal somewhere near Euston and stroll over to get the 1910 (or 2040 if it really has to be that one). It definitely has an advantage on that end over the trek to the airport at peak time. I agree the 3 hour wait in Holyhead won't be optimal, but I'm sure it's nothing that a beer and a good book can't overcome. I'm not saying I would do it every week, but as a once off it's definitely worth considering.

z

As the Arriva representative said it is unlikely you would get the cheaper fare on the 19.10 direct train as it is one of the first off-peak trains and likely to be busy. However the unrestricted fare is not much extra and is valid on the 19.10.

I can understand you would prefer the direct service but there really is no need to stress over missing the connections on the later service. They are all valid connections and as long as you have a ticket or tickets for onward travel it is the railway companies responsibility to get you to your destination in the event of a delay. If this means putting you in a taxi from Crewe or Chester to Holyhead in order to catch the ferry then it will be done. There is plenty of slack from the 20.40 to catch the ferry, even an hour delay to Crewe + taxi would comfortably make it.

BenShermin

For the record I've taken the 2040 train many times. Once or twice it was delayed by 20mins and both the Crewe to Chester and Chester to Holyhead trains waited for the delayed service from London.

Also don't listen to Lxflyer, he's no fun ! You meet some headcases on the "red eye" overnight ferry and it's great skit to have a few pints with them in Blooms Bar on Irish ferries. The sunrise over Poolbeg towers as you gently sail up the Liffey at 5.30am makes it all worth it!!

Arriva Trains Wales

seanmacc wrote: »

If it happens you'd be talking from early May onwards. I would imagine it will be in place for around the time of the Olympics at least. I'm hoping for its in for the Heineken Cup final. Unfortunatley the Ferry companies probably won't get a say in it. It will all come down to Arriva or Virgin Trains accountants to see weather or not it could be a runner. During the ash crisis there was hundreds of people sitting in Holyhead waiting the 4 hours for a train and they didn't budge to put anything on for them even as a temp mesure. But supposedly there is a strong possibility it will be a runner

Just for the record, the ATW 0425 off Holyhead is not being brought earlier this summer. Boards readers may be interested to know that the sticking point (for ATW/the Welsh government/ferry companies) is actually the cost of providing security on the train. Unfortunately, justifiably or not, the SailRail market has a bad reputation for drunkeness and consequent problems on the trains.

BenShermin

That's shocking, whatever happened to just having a few pints and being merry. I have seen people extremely drunk and sometimes verbally abusive coming off the midnight ferry arrivals at Holyhead from Dublin so I couldn't blame ATW to be honest. It's a real pitty!

LXFlyer

And you wonder why I would prefer to fly rather than taking the overnight ferry?

I've no issue with the daytime sailings at all, but the night sailings really do not have any appeal to me.

Incidentally ATW, do you not have a similar problem at Fishguard at night?