Please overtake on the left on motorways?

ballooba

It seems like the only way to deal with the absolute 'tards that block the overtaking lane. Given that drivers can block the overtaking lane with impunity, how likely are you to be in trouble for overtaking on the left? It seems that this change of behaviour would help to greatly improve the flow of traffic. If it's possible for a car to overtake you on the left, then you should not be in the overtaking lane.

dgt

Horn and lights, thats what theyre there for :pac:

I can't see this going down too well, considering undertaking is illegal and dangerous.

IBTL

ironclaw

Its a serious offense and frankly I think its worse than "hogging" the overtaking lane. Its just down right dangerous. Comes down to complete lack of enforcement, no other reason.

Saab Ed

vectra

Pull up beside them on the inside lane and stay there :pac:

veetwin

dgt wrote: »

Horn and lights, thats what theyre there for :pac:

I can't see this going down too well, considering undertaking is illegal and dangerous.

IBTL

So is hogging the overtaking lane on a motorway but it's not like anyone is going to get into trouble for that! (Not condoning undertaking but I'd say it's like shopping in Pennys - nobody talks about it but everyone does it!)

Basq

It seems like the only way to deal with the absolute 'tards that block the overtaking lane

How would overtaking on the left help them deal with it?

If they're oblivious to the function of the overtaking lane, what makes you think this sort of behaviour will help them learn?

use your indicator or flash them briefly

don't undertake

Paparazzo

Why is undertaking dangerous?

dgt

veetwin wrote: »

So is hogging the overtaking lane on a motorway but it's not like anyone is going to get into trouble for that! (Not condoning undertaking but I'd say it's like shopping in Pennys - nobody talks about it but everyone does it!)

I have heard in England that people have been convicted for lane hoggng when the emergency services couldn't get by.

Your'e right though, that wouldn't happen here

greenflash

Seeing as it's fairly common to see cops cruising along in the middle lane, I doubt anyone will be prosecuted, or even mildly warned for incorrect lane usage during my lifetime. Drives me mad but I try to control myself as best I can... though occaionally I do pass on the inside (undertaking is for dead bodies) and use an appropriate hand signal as I do so. On the M50 I reckon you could argue that you were not overtaking on the inside, but traffic was moving faster in your lane and so long as you are not speeding and did not change lanes to pass the twat in the middle everything should be ok.

Mycroft H

I'll sit as far right as I can get with the right indicator. Usually gets the message across. All while maintaining a safe distance of course.

ballooba

Basq wrote: »

How would overtaking on the left help them deal with it?

If they're oblivious to the function of the overtaking lane, what makes you think this sort of behaviour will help them learn?

They probably won't learn, but it might solve the traffic flow problem. Otherwise you end up with a rolling roadblock.

Frank Black

I'll undertake if someone is refusing to move to the inside lane, if I'm not in a rush and the road is quiet, I'll pull back into the outside lane and gradually allow myself to slow down until the hogger is forced to pull over to the inside lane.
Childish? Yes.
Satisfying? Very.

corktina

Paparazzo wrote: »

Why is undertaking dangerous?

i beleive it is the norm in the states with multiple lane freeways. It's only dangerous if people don't use there mirrors (or to put it another way, in Ireland, itis dangerous.

Big Nasty

The problem in this country is education, or lack there of. Our first motorway was the M50 which was only built 15 years back and only made fully functional 3 years ago. The vast majority of people in this country do not understand or even know about passing lanes. Education on this is greatly needed.

nacimroc

I undertake everyone daily! Have absolutely no problems with it as I wouldn't get anywhere otherwise! Heard a top garda on radio last year saying it is only illegal if there is a major change in the persons speed, hence lanes moving beside each other slowly is fine.

When people learn to use the road properly or the gardai do their job, I'll join them, until then I'm going to drive like 99% of the Irish...any way I like!

Cicero

Not sure of the wording of the rules of the road now but when I was learning, they definitely made reference to the "fast" lane when referring to what now should be known as the overtaking lane....the word "fast" is way too subjective....

Guy:Incognito

I've lost patience driving on the M50. I'm ****ed if I'm changing lanes 4 times every time I've to go by someone. The other day I was behind a car in the driving lane, I was doing an indicated 86kmph and was passing lines of cars in the middle lane doing no more than 65.

Every time without fail Cars merge from the slip, then within 10 seconds have moved to the middle lane despite the driving lane being empty. Complete idiots. They should be allowed have cars.

Cicero wrote: »

Not sure of the wording of the rules of the road now but when I was learning, they definitely made reference to the "fast" lane when referring to what now should be known as the overtaking lane....the word "fast" is way too subjective....

A fair amount of driving instructors are idiots that dont know how to drive properly themselves. Between witnessing them driving (lone driver in driving svhool car I'm better most of the time is the instructor) and some of the bad thigns people I know do that they tell me their instructors told them I've very little faith in them.

corktina wrote: »

i beleive it is the norm in the states with multiple lane freeways. It's only dangerous if people don't use there mirrors (or to put it another way, in Ireland, itis dangerous.

So what you mean is changing lanes without checking if someone elses lane they are already in is clear is dangerous.

Bigcheeze

Paparazzo wrote: »

Why is undertaking dangerous?

It's not inherently dangerous but as it's illegal then it's not something other drivers will expect.

Bigcheeze

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Our first motorway was the M50 which was only built 15 years back

Pedantic hat on: The first motorway was the M7.

As you were.

Owyhee

Cicero wrote: »

Not sure of the wording of the rules of the road now but when I was learning, they definitely made reference to the "fast" lane when referring to what now should be known as the overtaking lane....the word "fast" is way too subjective....

Agreed, It is either the driving lane or an overtaking lane; there is no lane which should be driven in "fast" but politicians, councilors, council engineers, and their road sub contractor designers often refer to lanes as this.

Education is not only needed for drivers to explain about always keeping on the left most lane expect to overtake, but needed even more so for the people who are designing and signing off on the appalling state of the inconstant road signage and road marking through out this country.
If we could get everyone over to the left lane and only overtaking appropriately (i.e. not half a km before the car in front, but as you would time it safely on a one and one road) we would fit a lot more cars on the existing road network and we would all move more freely.

Guy:Incognito

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Pedantic hat on: The first motorway was the M7.

As you were.

Also the M50 is open 22 years.

DanWall

Sometimes the left lane is sign posted for the next exit so you need to be another lane, also traffic entering the motor take up the left lane, which moves everyting to the right

thegills

"Overtake only on the right, unless traffic is travelling in slow moving queues and the traffic queue on your right is travelling more slowly than you are"
Straight from the Rules of the Road. I always thought this was legal as long as you weren't breaking the speed limit. I got pulled over for doing this once and explained the rule to the guard and he let me off.

johnthemull

I realise undertaking is both dangerous and illegal. However when you are faced with moron drivers on a daily basis, undertaking becomes a necessity.

Guy:Incognito

DanWall wrote: »

Sometimes the left lane is sign posted for the next exit so you need to be another lane,

In places where that happens its signposted well in advance and the divider changes to thick dashed lines. Theres no reason for anyone to think they are going to get stuck going off where they dont want to. In the case of the M50 the only place that happens is where the motorway ends at the northern end and at one junction (leopardstown) where the road permenantly drops to 2 lanes.

DanWall wrote: »

also traffic entering the motor take up the left lane,which moves everyting to the right

No, no it doesnt. The traffic comeing on to the motorway lines up with gaps in the traffic that the peopel already should be leaving if they are driving properly and they merge with them. No need for anyone to move anywhere.

thegills wrote: »

"Overtake only on the right, unless traffic is travelling in slow moving queues and the traffic queue on your right is travelling more slowly than you are"
Straight from the Rules of the Road. I always thought this was legal as long as you weren't breaking the speed limit. I got pulled over for doing this once and explained the rule to the guard and he let me off.

Sittign in the overtaking lanes not overtaking is also illegal.


It boils down to this : If someone overtakes you on the left, YOU are in the wrong lane.

Owyhee

DanWall wrote: »

Somrtimes the left lane is sign posted for the next exit so you need to be another lane, also traffic entering the motor take up the left lane

Somrtimes the left lane is sign posted for the next exit: Can you give an example?
If it is signposted as an exit then it is an exit lane not continuing; or if it does continue you just stay in that lane as normal.

also traffic entering the motor take up the left lane: Then you move into the next lane as you are overtaking a slower car which is merging,- then you move back...-If it is not possible to overtake the merging car, you then either slow down, or speed as appropriate to allow the merging car get on the road.;)

Nissan doctor

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

A fair amount of driving instructors are idiots that dont know how to drive properly themselves. Between witnessing them driving (lone driver in driving svhool car I'm better most of the time is the instructor) and some of the bad thigns people I know do that they tell me their instructors told them I've very little faith in them.

Coming onto the M50 from the Ballymun junction I actually witnessed extremely dangerous driving by a driving instructor in a marked driving school Micra!

A Focus pulled in front of the Micra on the on ramp(2 lanes) without indicating. The Micra started flashing the Focus then, at the bottom of the on ramp, pulled across the hatched lines into the left motorway lane and accelerated up to block the Focus from entering. The Focus forced its way into the left lane and at one point the driving school Micra was straddling the left and center lanes(in rush hour traffic) still trying to block the focus.:eek:

I got it on dash cam but its far away and difficult to see what's happening.

Leprechaun77

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It boils down to this : If someone overtakes you on the left, YOU are in the wrong lane.

This statement has a LOT of merit......

Nissan doctor

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It boils down to this : If someone overtakes you on the left, YOU are in the wrong lane.

Very well put..

corktina

thegills wrote: »

"Overtake only on the right, unless traffic is travelling in slow moving queues and the traffic queue on your right is travelling more slowly than you are"
Straight from the Rules of the Road. I always thought this was legal as long as you weren't breaking the speed limit. I got pulled over for doing this once and explained the rule to the guard and he let me off.

you were lucky...the operative word is QUEUE...it has to be a slow moving or stopped queue NOT a stream of traffic at normal speed.

Raiser

Theres a lot of horseshít views being happily waved around this thread - The truth is that if someone wants or needs to move back into the left lane there should be nobody suddenly and unexpectedly there performing a dangerous, irresponsible, illegal and dumb driving manoever.

- The fact that 94.9% of Irish drivers are fcuktards sitting in the right hand lane playing pocket pool or putting on blobs of mascara doesn't entitle you lane Evangelists to equal and exceed their stupidity by undertaking them like a Moron, while at the same time trying to justify your actions by finger pointing at societies z list.

Also, and I'm sorry to be [slightly!] petty, the term overtaking to the left is an irritating oxymoron - Jesus :eek:

Del2005

Over the last few days I've had multiple cars pull out in front of me on multi lane roads. It's been at different times of the day and weather conditions. I've had my lights on when it was raining. They all just swung out of the merge lane without checking or decided to overtake when a faster vehicle was about to pass.

So if the dimwits aren't using their mirrors to merge onto roads or plan an overtake, you may as well use any lane to get past as you've as much chance of the person pulling into your lane no matter which one you're in and crossing 4 lanes to get past somone is nearly as risky as undertaking.

coolbeans

Raiser wrote: »

Theres a lot of horseshít views being happily waved around this thread - The truth is that if someone wants or needs to move back into the left lane there should be nobody suddenly and unexpectedly there performing a dangerous, irresponsible, illegal and dumb driving manoever.

- The fact that 94.9% of Irish drivers are fcuktards sitting in the right hand lane playing pocket pool or putting on blobs of mascara doesn't entitle you lane Evangelists to equal and exceed their stupidity by undertaking them like a Moron, while at the same time trying to justify your actions by finger pointing at societies z list.

Also, and I'm sorry to be [slightly!] petty, the term overtaking to the left is an irritating oxymoron - Jesus :eek:

Calm yourself. The system is broken as there is no adequate training and no enforcement of the rules. Therefore, there is chaos and to continue obeying the rules while the majority do not is a very questionable strategy and serves to only entrench the behaviour that encourages undertaking, i.e. lane hogging, in the first place.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Owyhee

@Raiser .Its more than "horseshít"; if you do serious mileage every year it soon becomes a real curse in your life.
I would hope that the point of this ongoing discussion would be that people could contribute something to it. There is nothing added by slating at both sides from the fence.

One of the main cases we are discussing is not as you say "- if someone wants or needs to move back into the left lane there should be nobody suddenly and unexpectedly there performing a dangerous, irresponsible, illegal and dumb driving manoever."
The point is that, as soon as you have finished overtaking, you have moved from eg. lane 1, to the overtaking lane (lane 2), and then as soon as you would (as if you were overtaking on a one and one national road) move back into lane 1. Therefore it is impossible that someone could preform a manover like you describe. If they do then you are in the wrong, and cruising on an overtaking lane....:cool:

Macy0161

Does staying in the driving lane, maintaining a constant speed (within speed limits), and driving past cars in the 1st and 2nd overtaking lanes count as undertaking? Probably going by the letter of the law, although I'd say it could be argued a lot of the times as a slow moving traffic.

Is it dangerous? Not imo, as if they weren't in the driving lane already, they're not that likely to pull in.

Voodoomelon

Slow moving traffic is just that, slow moving. As in queuing, at speeds around 10-20kph where you cannot possible enforce an undertaking rule. Doing 60-120kph undertaking and saying traffic was "slow moving" is bull.

Do I know this as fact? No. But try the "slow moving" argument with a judge at those high speeds and let me know how you get on.

Owyhee

Macy0161 wrote: »

Does staying in the driving lane, maintaining a constant speed (within speed limits), and driving past cars in the 1st and 2nd overtaking lanes count as undertaking? Probably going by the letter of the law, although I'd say it could be argued a lot of the times as a slow moving traffic.

Is it dangerous? Not imo, as if they weren't in the driving lane already, they're not that likely to pull in.

I would agree with you that they are not likely to pull in, but I learned to drive with the attitude that everyone else one the road is an absolute lunatic liable to do anything at anytime. i.e. if you do, do it, have a back up plan in case they do wake up to being in the wrong place and do something stupid.
Anyhow what is your other choice, to drive in the wrong lane with the rest of them?

Mycroft H

Macy0161 wrote: »

Is it dangerous? Not imo, as if they weren't in the driving lane already, they're not that likely to pull in.

See what it boils down to is that most Irish drivers have very poor observation skills on the motorway. Its even more dangerous to expect them to not pull into your lane while undertaking as there even more likely to not have checked their blind spots.

Owyhee

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Slow moving traffic is just that, slow moving. As in queuing, at speeds around 10-20kph where you cannot possible enforce an undertaking rule. Doing 60-120kph undertaking and saying traffic was "slow moving" is bull.

Do I know this as fact? No. But try the "slow moving" argument with a judge at those high speeds and let me know how you get on.

and for example what would the case be?

nacimroc

Raiser wrote: »

Theres a lot of horseshít views being happily waved around this thread

Great words of wisdom there from someone who obviously doesn't drive for a living.

If I drive 480 miles a day at 60mph I do an 8 hour day. If someone blocks me doing 40 mph it adds 4 HOURS to my day...everyday!

If you walked out of your office and someone stood in the way blocking you for 4 hours everyday you would knock them out so don't expect anything else from me. I will happily scare a **** driver into the wall, drive somewhere they don't expect, cause them to crash every single day until THEY learn to drive properly! Its tough love but someone has to do it!

P.S. you should try leave the country and see how other civilised countries operate! Lane hoggers would be pushed off the road in Italy, arrested in the UK, fined in France, car impounded in Germany...but Ireland....well its always the other persons fault!

challengemaster

Basq wrote: »

How would overtaking on the left help them deal with it?

If they're oblivious to the function of the overtaking lane, what makes you think this sort of behaviour will help them learn?

This isn't aimed towards "helping them learn"

This is aimed towards letting everyone else get by them legally because they won't learn or pay attention to the law anyway.

Voodoomelon

Owyhee wrote: »

and for example what would the case be?

Being pulled over by the Gardaí for undertaking and contesting the fine in court?
"It was slow moving traffic your honour". Some chance.

bigroad

It is a pain in arse ,but if you pull to the slower lane and wait a while another driver will come up and do the dirty work,then you can proceed.I know because i do 3500km a week beat thatfor experience.

dahamsta

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Owyhee wrote: »

and for example what would the case be?

Being pulled over by the Gardaí for undertaking and contesting the fine in court?
"It was slow moving traffic your honour". Some chance.

I'd say the number of people done for one are roughly equivalent to the other, i.e. very few.

Course I don't have any actual evidence for that, but there isn't any evidence for judge's opinions of overtaking lane hogs either.

And, as we know, Irish traffic court decisions are reliant as much on the quality of m'luds breakfast, as they are on the actual law...

Dartz

If you're doing 120kph in the driving lane, and someone's doing a 100 in the fast..... then what should you do?

dahamsta

You don't answer the question, until the questioner refers to the outside lane correctly.

bigroad

Ask youself how far and where your going .If its not the hospital ,pull to the slow lane and relax ,watch the stupid driver in the fast lane and wait your chance .The difference between 120km and 100km in 10 miles is very in time.Scrratching ur arse could take longer.so why bother.

Owyhee

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Being pulled over by the Gardaí for undertaking and contesting the fine in court?
"It was slow moving traffic your honour". Some chance.

In order for a scenario like that to occur, assuming that everyone is within the speed limit, the person on lane 2 (i.e. the hogger) is automatically in the wrong to begin with.
If all traffic slowed down to the speed of the slowest driver in the overtaking lane, there would be chaos. try to imagine the ball to the cow, or the M50 @ 6pm where nobody would move past another in the a right hand lane. Now try to imagine it where all that hogging traffic is in the correct lane, and see how more freely the traffic flows.

It is not by punishing drivers who are obeying lane rules and speed limits who by default pass ignorant drivers that we will solve this problem. It is by education and enforcement.
I would think that in a pragmatic court that a judge would see the growing problem of the issue, and be aware of other European standards in the matter, and not punish a lane obedient driver who obviously the rules of the road, over a driver who is not aware of where he should be on the road to begin with. there may be two rules being broken here but I would strongly think that one driver is forcing a second party to modify their behavior when the second party was already driving within the rules of the road, therefore by default a court should find the hogger at fault. :cool: