GREATEST Light Welterweight of all time !!

tryingmybestt

Who do you rank as the greatest Light Welterweight of all time...

I don't mean who was the greatest fighter to have fought at LWW, I mean taking everything into account who is the greatest LWW champion of all time

For me it's Kostya Tszyu.....loved his positive attitude and his awesome punching power....he was so accurate and had one of the best right hands of all time .

gene_tunney

Well Henry Armstrong fought a lot of fights at LWW while weighing in much less himself, so I don't know if that fits your criteria or not.

I'd say Julio Cesar Chavez

tryingmybestt

gene_tunney wrote: »

Well Henry Armstrong fought a lot of fights at LWW while weighing in much less himself, so I don't know if that fits your criteria or not.

I'd say Julio Cesar Chavez

armstrong was never champion at LWW so i don't think he should be considered

Chavez is the obvious pick for some because of the number of defences but i think tszyu was undisputed champion and fought the better opposition....i also feel most of his wins were more convincing than chavez's...

for me chavez was better at lighweight and below

chavez would rate higher than tszyu in p4p list but at LWW i feel tszyu had a better reign

gene_tunney

tryingmybestt wrote: »

armstrong was never champion at LWW so i don't think he should be considered

Chavez is the obvious pick for some because of the number of defences but i think tszyu was undisputed champion and fought the better opposition....i also feel most of his wins were more convincing than chavez's...

for me chavez was better at lighweight and below

chavez would rate higher than tszyu in p4p list but at LWW i feel tszyu had a better reign

Fair enough but I think Chavez would spark Tszyu at LWW

tryingmybestt

gene_tunney wrote: »

Fair enough but I think Chavez would spark Tszyu at LWW

they did fight at LWW !

and tszyu annihilated him and man handled him and got the stoppage

gene_tunney

tryingmybestt wrote: »

they did fight at LWW !

and tszyu annihilated him and man handled him and got the stoppage

Chavez was 38, about 7 years off his prime, he was beaten a year earlier by Willie Wise which shows how much of a shell of himself he was.

Prime Chavez would spark him.

walshb

gene_tunney wrote: »

Chavez was 38, about 7 years off his prime, he was beaten a year earlier by Willie Wise which shows how much of a shell of himself he was.

Prime Chavez would spark him.

I agree with everything here, apart from Chavez would spark him.

Yes, he would be a much more difficult task if it was Chavez from 1990-1992 say, but Tsyzu was a very very good fighter. Don't see any sparking. I will back Julio in a close fight that he wins down the stretch.

cowzerp

Chavez is the best Lww in my opinion, way superior at peak to Kosta, sure he was not near as past it when hatton beat him and no 1 thinks hatton was a better fighter than TSyzu

walshb

Pryor beats both. That I would be confident of.

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

Pryor beats both. That I would be confident of.

Would be great but certainly not a definite either way

tryingmybestt

i'm not discussing fantasy match ups....IMO i would probably say prime chavez might beat tszyu too...although not definite because tszyu was a beast at 140lbs and chavez was better at LW and lighter

i asked who had the better reign as champion

i based it on number of defences, quality of opposition and how dominating each was during reign

it wasn't who was the best LWW, it was who had the best reign as champion and considered the top champion

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Would be great but certainly not a definite either way

Absolutely. Love to see it.

walshb

gene_tunney wrote: »

Well Henry Armstrong fought a lot of fights at LWW while weighing in much less himself, so I don't know if that fits your criteria or not.

I'd say Julio Cesar Chavez

I'm lost. On another thread you said Henry would be a journeyman if fighting today. Was that a piss take? Now, he is being thrown into the mix here as the best LWW ever?

Just wanting to clarify.

gene_tunney

walshb wrote: »

I'm lost. On another thread you said Henry would be a journeyman if fighting today. Was that a piss take? Now, he is being thrown into the mix here as the best LWW ever?

Just wanting to clarify.

I believe Armstrong would not be competitive today. Imagine him againsgt Floyd or Pac, would be brutal.

But I still believe he is one of the best ever because fighters should only be rated within their own eras.

For example, Lennox Lewis would spark Joe Louis with ease, but that doesn't mean I'd rank him higher. You have to take the merits of the eras into account. Athletes in that era can't compete with their modern equivalents.

tryingmybestt

gene_tunney wrote: »

I believe Armstrong would not be competitive today. Imagine him againsgt Floyd or Pac, would be brutal.

But I still believe he is one of the best ever because fighters should only be rated within their own eras.

For example, Lennox Lewis would spark Joe Louis with ease, but that doesn't mean I'd rank him higher. You have to take the merits of the eras into account. Athletes in that era can't compete with their modern equivalents.

You believe Armstrong would be a journeyman today yet one of the best of all time???

Armstrong would be competitive today or in any era.....he is one of the best pressure fighters of all time and rightly so ranks high on the p4p list

walshb

gene_tunney wrote: »

I believe Armstrong would not be competitive today. Imagine him againsgt Floyd or Pac, would be brutal.

But I still believe he is one of the best ever because fighters should only be rated within their own eras.

For example, Lennox Lewis would spark Joe Louis with ease, but that doesn't mean I'd rank him higher. You have to take the merits of the eras into account. Athletes in that era can't compete with their modern equivalents.

I know what you are saying. Thanks for the clarification. I have watched a fair bit of Henry and do not believe that he gets sparked by Floyd or Manny.

tryingmybestt

gene_tunney wrote: »

For example, Lennox Lewis would spark Joe Louis with ease, but that doesn't mean I'd rank him higher. You have to take the merits of the eras into account. Athletes in that era can't compete with their modern equivalents.

that a crazy comment....lennox couldnt ko a smaller HW in Holyfield....Louis is a class above holyfield and hits much harder......

NO way 'Lewis sparks Louis with ease' !!

walshb

I wouldn't be so sure that anyone hit harder than a 6 feet 5 inch 235 lbs Lewis. He had a hell of a right hand. Monster hitter.

BTW, with realtion to thread title, I will go with Pryor. 11 or so title fights, yes, less than Tsyzu, but he was IMO a better fighter, so when I take this too into account I would rank him the best performer/champion @ LWW I have seen. Not saying he beats all other men at this weight.

tryingmybestt

walshb wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure that anyone hit harder than a 6 feet 5 inch 235 lbs Lewis. He had a hell of a right hand. Monster hitter.

hits harder than Holyfield

walshb

tryingmybestt wrote: »

hits harder than Holyfield

I need to slow down.:)

tryingmybestt

walshb wrote: »

BTW, with realtion to thread title, I will go with Pryor. 11 or so title fights, yes, less than Tsyzu, but he was IMO a better fighter, so when I take this too into account I would rank him the best performer/champion @ LWW I have seen. Not saying he beats all other men at this weight.

at least you got the point of the thread

i can't argue with pryor, he was a great fighter, similar to armstrong, complete pressure fighter with an amazing engine ......it probably comes down to personal opinion and what one appreciates more

section4

walshb wrote: »

Pryor beats both. That I would be confident of.

i agree and a peak wilfredo benitez at light welter would have a great chance of beating them both

tryingmybestt

benitez was a great fighter but none of his reigns at LW, WW or LM were great...none were more than 2 defences and he lost the WW and LM titles both by ko.....great fighter but didn't have great reigns as champion so definitely wouldn't rate him the greatest LWW champ

section4

tryingmybestt wrote: »

benitez was a great fighter but none of his reigns at LW, WW or LM were great...none were more than 2 defences and he lost the WW and LM titles both by ko.....great fighter but didn't have great reigns as champion so definitely wouldn't rate him the greatest LWW champ

yes thats right, he seemd to lose focus a lot and got beat by guys he should have beaten

tryingmybestt

section4 wrote: »

yes thats right, he seemd to lose focus a lot and got beat by guys he should have beaten

he did lose to top notch guys in leonard and hearns and he beat duran....if had of stayed at light welter he could have been a great champion, maybe the greatest

whaaames

Im gonna say Meldrick Taylor, maybe im thinking with my heart instead of my head but apart from the devestation he suffered VS Chavez he was never anything but immaculate (obviously aside from the fact he was never the same after, but that goes without saying)...

Hand speed was (and since been) unparalleled by anyone, accuracy was amazing and had heart to go around...

If he hadn't have been done, robbed, with '2 seconds from glory' then who knows...

barney4001

very many fighters fell into that category at one time or other on their way up from a lighter weight duran hearns for example

walshb

barney4001 wrote: »

very many fighters fell into that category at one time or other on their way up from a lighter weight duran hearns for example

Hearns never fell into the category. Was always a WW. Duran passed the division by, but I see what you mean when you mention Duran.; he had several fights weighing above 135 and below 140.

barney4001

walshb wrote: »

Hearns never fell into the category. Was always a WW. Duran passed the division by, but I see what you mean when you mention Duran.; he had several fights weighing above 135 and below 140.

speaking of Hearns I see he is broke financially he had to auction of a lot of his ring belts robes,cars etc to help pay his taxes

tryingmybestt

barney4001 wrote: »

very many fighters fell into that category at one time or other on their way up from a lighter weight duran hearns for example

the thread is about who had the greatest reign as LWW champion, not the greatest fighter who's ever fought at LWW

it's probably between ppl like tszyu, chavez, pryor etc.....all great champions at LWW with plenty of title defences

barney4001

ID GO FOR Chavez