Best team of players not to win All-Ireland

LeoB

Let the arguments commence.

I will pick this side to get things moving. I think its fairly well balanced but obviously there are a few who could be named Like Barden of Longford, Galvin Limerick, Hannon Wicklow Coffey Wicklow, Rea Carlow, Kevin Cassidy Donegal, Dan Gordon and Kevin McKiernan Down, Ross Munnelley and Clancy Laois............

But here is my 15

1. Shane Curran (Roscommon)
2. Brian Lacey (Kildare)
3. James Sherry (Fermanagh)
4. Sean M Lockhart (Derry)
5. James Nallen (Mayo)
6. Karl Lacey (Donegal)
7. Anthony Rainbow (Kildare
8. Seamus O'Hanlon (Louth)
9. Brendan Murphy (Carlow
10. Niall McNamee (Offaly)
11. Dessie Dolan (Westmeath)
12. Leighton Glynn (Wicklow)
13. Mattie Forde (Wexford)
14. Benny Coulter (Down)
15. Declan Browne Tipperary)

6 very good backs, good tacklers and ball players.
Midfielders who are good fielders of the ball and can score
6 Very good forwards taht would have a field day, every one is a very good score getter, can win own ball but they are also good team players especially Coulter..

Gael85

1.Gary Connaughton-Westmeath
2.Sean Marty Lockhart-Derry
3.Barry Owens-Fermanagh
4.Karl Lacey-Donegal
5.Davih Heaney-Mayo
6.James Nallen-Mayo
7.Anthony Rainbow-Kildare
8.Ciaran Whelan-Dublin
9.John Galvin-Limerick
10.Dermot Earley-Roscommon
11.Tony McManus-Roscommon
12.John Doyle-Kildare
13.Paddy Bradley-Derry
14.Benny Coulter-Down
15.Declan Browne-Tipperary

Syferus

A more interesting question would be the best the team not to win an All-Ireland.

For me, personally, the Roscommon team of the 70's to early 80's is up there. When they finally made the show-piece game in 1980 they raced into a 1-2 to no score lead against Kerry and all things seemed possible; they eventually lost. Dermot Earley is one of the greatest players of all time, and the most natural leader to perhaps ever take the field, nevermind being the best never to win an All-Ireland. Tony McManus, Harry Keegan, Pat Lindsay, Michael Finneran (a wasted talent, to say the least), 'Royal' O'Gara. The list goes on. Some of the team were nearing their end by 1980 but that team was one of the finest to play the game, wedged right in the middle of the 70's Dublin teams and the 80's Kerry teams.

MfMan

Galway team of the early 70s could have sneaked one, lost 3 finals in 4 years.

Val Daly best Galway footballer of recent years not to win an AI, as was TJ Gilmore a decade previously.

ciarriaithuaidh

Would have to think about the team, but Niall Buckley would have to be midfield..as good a midfielder as I've seen in my time and a superb athlete aswell.

LeoB

LeoB wrote: »

Let the arguments commence.

I will pick this side to get things moving. I think its fairly well balanced but obviously there are a few who could be named Like Barden of Longford, Galvin Limerick, Hannon Wicklow Coffey Wicklow, Rea Carlow, Kevin Cassidy Donegal, Dan Gordon and Kevin McKiernan Down, Ross Munnelley and Clancy Laois............


But here is my 15

1. Shane Curran (Roscommon)
2. Brian Lacey (Kildare)
3. James Sherry (Fermanagh)
4. Sean M Lockhart (Derry)
5. James Nallen (Mayo)
6. Karl Lacey (Donegal)
7. Anthony Rainbow (Kildare
8. Seamus O'Hanlon (Louth)
9. Brendan Murphy (Carlow
10. Niall McNamee (Offaly)
11. Dessie Dolan (Westmeath)
12. Leighton Glynn (Wicklow)
13. Mattie Forde (Wexford)
14. Benny Coulter (Down)
15. Declan Browne Tipperary)

QUOTE]
I should have been more clear but I based my selection to run parrell to the thread Best footballer of last 25years. which takes us back as far as 1987.

Syferus wrote: »

A more interesting question would be the best the team not to win an All-Ireland.

For me, personally, the Roscommon team of the 70's to early 80's is up there..

Good point Syferus

Drmot Earley Snr and Junior could both have been included. Two of the greatest sportsmen our country has ever produced.

If I were to go back a little earlier I include 70s I could add players like Aiden Wiseman (Louth), Peter McGinnity (Fermanagh), Dermot Flannagan, John Finn (Mayo), Noel Riche (Clare), Colm Browne Laois, Dessie Barry and John McCormack Longford, Spike Fagan (Westmeath).

During my humble playing days I was lucky enough to have both Harry Keegan and Dermot Earley train my club side for a while. Two absoloute gentlemen.

The Armagh team of the 70s were superb as were Down but both would have suffered hugely during the troubles. The Derry team of 75 and 76 were very good with Gerry McElhenney, Peter Stevenson and it suprised me at the time they never made the breakthrough

Looking back we have had some gret players in last 20 to 30 years

RickRoll

LeoB wrote: »

Brian Lacey (Kildare)

6 very good backs, good tacklers and ball players.

Would you believe Brian Lacey did not kick a football once during Kildare's run to the All-Ireland final in 1998 even though he played in every game.

aidan24326

Others of note:

Willie Joe Padden, Kevin McStay, Kieran McDonald (Mayo)

Dermot McCabe (Cavan)

Frank McGuigan, Eugene McKenna (Tyrone)

Eugene 'Nudie' Hughes (Monaghan)

corcaigh07

RickRoll wrote: »

Would you believe Brian Lacey did not kick a football once during Kildare's run to the All-Ireland final in 1998 even though he played in every game.

did he hand pass it though? As good as kildare are, they need to kick it around a bit more.

Why kerry are successful is because they have adopted to the hand passing game but are not afraid of making a killer kick pass into the lethal forwards if given a little more space and time on the ball.

The_Kew_Tour

Colin Corkery deserves a mention.

MfMan

RickRoll wrote: »

Would you believe Brian Lacey did not kick a football once during Kildare's run to the All-Ireland final in 1998 even though he played in every game.

Gary Fahy didn't kick the ball once during the final itself, hand-passed any possession he got on.

RickRoll

corcaigh07 wrote: »

did he hand pass it though? As good as kildare are, they need to kick it around a bit more.

Why kerry are successful is because they have adopted to the hand passing game but are not afraid of making a killer kick pass into the lethal forwards if given a little more space and time on the ball.

Yes he hand passed it alright, he used to manage my team and he told us himself. He told us Micko said backs should never be allowed kick a football.

lala88

RickRoll wrote: »

Would you believe Brian Lacey did not kick a football once during Kildare's run to the All-Ireland final in 1998 even though he played in every game.

Iv heard that before and still cant believe it! He also won an All Star that year

lala88

I remeber there was a hurling team of the century for players who never won an All Ireland but i dont think there was a football one or was there?

lala88

corcaigh07 wrote: »

did he hand pass it though? As good as kildare are, they need to kick it around a bit more.

Why kerry are successful is because they have adopted to the hand passing game but are not afraid of making a killer kick pass into the lethal forwards if given a little more space and time on the ball.

You often hear people say that Kerry hand pass as much as anyother team and they do but they always over look the fact that they'll kick pass when its needed too

km79

The Mayo team of 96

woodchopper

I reckon the Armagh team of the 2000s was the finest team never to win the Samuel Maguire trophy

cruiserweight

woodchopper wrote: »

I reckon the Armagh team of the 2000s was the finest team never to win the Samuel Maguire trophy

They won it in 2002

woodchopper

cruiserweight wrote: »

They won it in 2002

I'm Afraid your mixing them up with Tyrone. We all make mistakes sunshine, although some more so than others!

RickRoll

woodchopper wrote: »

I'm Afraid your mixing them up with Tyrone. We all make mistakes sunshine, although some more so than others!

Are you drunk? Armagh won the All-Ireland in 02'. They beat Kerry 1-13 0-14.

Tyrone won it in 03', beating Armagh in the final.

woodchopper

RickRoll wrote: »

Are you drunk? Armagh won the All-Ireland in 02'. They beat Kerry 1-13 0-14.

Tyrone won it in 03', beating Armagh in the final.

We are off the booze and on the ball for January

Tombo2000

Liam McHale worth a shout at midfield.

Beano McDonald was a smahing footballer before his injury; also Tom Kelly of Laois was very good.

I think Tommy Freeman is one of the best footballers in the country.

Eamonn O'Hara scored one of the best goals I've ever seen.

aidan24326

RickRoll wrote: »

Are you drunk? Armagh won the All-Ireland in 02'. They beat Kerry 1-13 0-14.

Tyrone won it in 03', beating Armagh in the final.

It was 1-12 to 0-14. Stephen McDonnell kicked the winner.

Open to correction but I think it was Tom O'Sullivan had a chance to equalise at the very end and his shot just trailed inches wide. Wrong man for the job perhaps.

padd b1975

aidan24326 wrote: »

It was 1-12 to 0-14. Stephen McDonnell kicked the winner.

Open to correction but I think it was Tom O'Sullivan had a chance to equalise at the very end and his shot just trailed inches wide. Wrong man for the job perhaps.

Could have sworn the Armagh goal was the last score of that game.
On topic Frank Mcguigan has to be the classiest and most natural footballer never to win an All Ireland.

He could look after himself too, not much point going after him with a handbag.

aidan24326

padd b1975 wrote: »

Could have sworn the Armagh goal was the last score of that game.
On topic Frank Mcguigan has to be the classiest and most natural footballer never to win an All Ireland.

He could look after himself too, not much point going after him with a handbag.

McConville scored the goal well before the end. Last score was a McDonnell point.

McGuigan was good alright but an even better Tyrone player to never win an All-Ireland was Eugene McKenna.

padd b1975

aidan24326 wrote: »

McConville scored the goal well before the end. Last score was a McDonnell point.

McGuigan was good alright but an even better Tyrone player to never win an All-Ireland was Eugene McKenna.

McKenna was a class act right enough but was part of a team that froze in 86 with Kerry all but beaten.
Mcguigan's greater strength and ball winning ability just shades it for me.
Although in fairness to Mckenna he was seriously hampered by knee problems.

aidan24326

padd b1975 wrote: »

McKenna was a class act right enough but was part of a team that froze in 86 with Kerry all but beaten.
Mcguigan's greater strength and ball winning ability just shades it for me.
Although in fairness to Mckenna he was seriously hampered by knee problems.

If you talk to Tyrone people they'll tell you that McKenna was as good a player as they ever had, a close second to Canavan.

And yes you're right that they threw away that 86 final. They had Kerry on the ropes but just didn't know how to go on and finish the job. But no disgrace in being beaten by the greatest team of all time. I think teams used to be half afraid of Kerry in those days though. Roscommon had them beaten in 1980 aswell only to throw it away.

Syferus

aidan24326 wrote: »

If you talk to Tyrone people they'll tell you that McKenna was as good a player as they ever had, a close second to Canavan.

And yes you're right that they threw away that 86 final. They had Kerry on the ropes but just didn't know how to go on and finish the job. But no disgrace in being beaten by the greatest team of all time. I think teams used to be half afraid of Kerry in those days though. Roscommon had them beaten in 1980 aswell only to throw it away.

Roscommon had played Kerry many times by that point, they knew they were their equals, and nor was that Kerry team's reputation in 1980 what it was to become by the end of the decade, the best team to play the game. Indeed even now Roscommon are rarely out-matched by Kerry at whatever grade they meet, even when better resourced counties are. Maybe the spirit of '44 lives on in some small way.

Roscommon froze after controling the early part of the 1980 final; this was the moment for the team, for the county itself. The stage caused it, not the team opposite. It was coalescence of great under-age teams, a national league title and years of near misses. I suppose if you have to lose the big one it might as well be to the very best, but 1980 hurts people in the county even now.

Tombo2000

Syferus wrote: »

Roscommon had played Kerry many times by that point, they knew they were their equals, and nor was that Kerry team's reputation in 1980 what it was to become by the end of the decade, the best team to play the game. Indeed even now Roscommon are rarely out-matched by Kerry at whatever grade they meet, even when better resourced counties are. Maybe the spirit of '44 lives on in some small way.

Roscommon froze after controling the early part of the 1980 final; this was the moment for the team, for the county itself. The stage caused it, not the team opposite. It was coalescence of great under-age teams, a national league title and years of near misses. I suppose if you have to lose the big one it might as well be to the very best, but 1980 hurts people in the county even now.

First final I went to.

I can barely rember the game.....just remember the Roscommon goal and the place going ballistic. All the neutrals going mad as well as the Rossies. And me thinking this meant Roscommon were going to win. But the goal came far too early.

I dont agree with you. I remember even then my dad saying 'you have to be twice as good as Kerry to beat them'.....they had the intimidation factor. Thats Offaly needed a few cracks at the cherry before they had their breakthrough.

MfMan

Syferus wrote: »

Roscommon had played Kerry many times by that point, they knew they were their equals, and nor was that Kerry team's reputation in 1980 what it was to become by the end of the decade, the best team to play the game. Indeed even now Roscommon are rarely out-matched by Kerry at whatever grade they meet, even when better resourced counties are. Maybe the spirit of '44 lives on in some small way.

Roscommon froze after controling the early part of the 1980 final; this was the moment for the team, for the county itself. The stage caused it, not the team opposite. It was coalescence of great under-age teams, a national league title and years of near misses. I suppose if you have to lose the big one it might as well be to the very best, but 1980 hurts people in the county even now.

And that day of all days, Dermot Earley RIP had to have an off day with his placed ball kicking as I recall. Missed kicks he normally slotted over with ease. Rossies should also have reached the '91 final - were in control against Meath for a long time in the semi' until they started going defensive and brought their opponents onto them; bad tactics from the sideline cost them.

padd b1975

I just don't get this Roscommon had Kerry beat line. They got off to a flying start no more no less.
Having said that it was Kerry's poorest final performance of that era.
As someone said it was the classic western team not getting the job done on the big day. Galway 83?
It should also be noted that Clan na Gael who provided the backbone of this team lost a stack of club All Irelands around this time.

On topic, honourable mentions to Dermot Earley, Harry Keegan, Tony McManus junior and Gay Sheerin.

bogmanstar

Eugene McKenna had no real faults as a player; very effective and authoritative player, but for sheer outrageousness, individual moments that live in your memory long after the game and the result are forgotten, stuff that would make you shake your head in admiration and smile, even when he was making a total ass of some “star” on your team, no Tyrone player in my memory (from the 70s onwards) could top Frank McGuigan (and I’m from the other side of the county with no affiliations to his club), though Canavan certainly ran him very close (and obviously achieved far more). Bear in mind McGuigan was in NYC for years, his best years lost to football, and many of his exploits were at club level; effortless artistry (that soaring hanging leap at midfield when he always managed to hang in the air for longer than any other midfielder about him; that wide eyed surprised look at giving yet another defender “twisted blood”; that ability to swoop in like a hawk and take the ball out of your hand at the last second; the amazing balance, the sure-shot accuracy with either foot) on mucky pitches among lesser players not averse to using border-line tactics to “get him”. Suffered too from a lack of tactics, when Frank was playing on any team, the tactics of the period amounted to little more than “give the ball to McGuigan”. Brendan Donnelly, a long-serving and under-rated All-Star replacement in 1979, was a classy traditional midfielder – great fielder of a ball, a deadly left foot and could deliver a very measured foot pass from anywhere; and his club mate, Pat King, Tyrone captain in the mid 70s, was an immaculate player who played well into his 40s. An under-rated Tyrone player of more recent times was Gerard Cavlan; seemed to drift in and out of the panel, but when he put his mind to it, he could do stuff with a football that most of his team mates wouldn’t have attempted. I’m not old enough to remember the likes of Frankie Donnelly or Iggy Jones; but also heard a lot about them. In neighbouring Fermanagh, Peter McGinnity stood out. Another superb long-serving player you’d have wanted on any team was Down’s ageless Colm McAlarney. At a team level, I remember standing in a pub in London and cursing as Mayo threw away an All Ireland in the mid 90s; one that they were more than good enough to win; and Ciaran MacDonald surely has to be one of the most skilful players never to have won an AI.

randd1

In the hurling, from what I can remember, I'd go with:

GK - Joe Quaid(Limerick)
RCB - Ollie Canning (Galway)
FB - Keith Rossiter (Wexford)
LCB - Mark Foley (Limerick)
RHB - Tony Browne (Waterford)
CB - Ciaran Carey (Limerick)
LHB - Ken McGrath (Waterford)
MF - Brick Walsh (Waterford)
MF - Niall Rigney (Laois)
RHF - Paul Flynn (Waterford)
CF - Joe Rabbitte (Galway)
LHF - James Young (Laois)
RCF - John Mullane (Waterford)
FF - Joe Canning (Galway)
LCF - Shane Dooley (Offaly)

I know there's a few lads out of position, but I think its a fair side.

Randy Watson

Ciaran O'Sullivan - Cork

aidan24326

randd1 wrote: »

In the hurling, from what I can remember, I'd go with:

GK - Joe Quaid(Limerick)
RCB - Ollie Canning (Galway)
FB - Keith Rossiter (Wexford)
LCB - Mark Foley (Limerick)
RHB - Tony Browne (Waterford)
CB - Ciaran Carey (Limerick)
LHB - Ken McGrath (Waterford)
MF - Brick Walsh (Waterford)
MF - Niall Rigney (Laois)
RHF - Paul Flynn (Waterford)
CF - Joe Rabbitte (Galway)
LHF - James Young (Laois)
RCF - John Mullane (Waterford)
FF - Joe Canning (Galway)
LCF - Shane Dooley (Offaly)

I know there's a few lads out of position, but I think its a fair side.

Another Waterford man you could have included is Fergal Hartley. There's been a fair few good Galway players over the last 15-20 years also that never won one. Kevin Broderick, Tom Helebert, Padraig Kelly, Justin Campbell, Cathal Moore, Fergal Moore, Eugene Cloonan, Ollie Canning etc