question for ye mechanics out there

Icyseanfitz

im looking at getting myself a proper tool kit at the moment so i can start doing repairs and what not, at the moment im torn between these two kits Park Tool, Pedros

ive used the pedros tool kit over in london and the tools were well made and strong, ive also used a lot of park tools and they are great (except that crappy torque wrench they have and their screwdrivers), just wondering which kit the seasoned mechanics would pick?

kumate_champ07

overkill imo, stuff like hammers, allen keys, adjustable wrenches I would buy from a good hardware store. Lidl have some great tool kits sometimes. a park tool cone wrench set with 13/14 15/17


for bicycle specific tools I'd go with cyclus and park tool

kumate_champ07

this is prob just as good as the park tool version
http://www.parker-international.co.uk/1785/Cyclus-Headset-Press.html

and this is much cheaper than park tool and nobody else seems to make them
http://www.parker-international.co.uk/1794/Cyclus-Drop-Out-Alignment-tool.html



http://www.bike-mailorder.de/shop/Cyclus-Tools:.:69.html
i got alot of the cyclus stuff here as it was cheapest. postage is 10euro

Icyseanfitz

whats the quality like on those tools though? i wont be just using these tools for my own bikes, il be doing repair jobs for people so i need long lasting quality tools, i dont suppose there is any quality cheap bb/headset facing and reaming tool? those park tool ones cost like 600 quid :eek:

Holyboy

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

overkill imo, stuff like hammers, allen keys, adjustable wrenches I would buy from a good hardware store. Lidl have some great tool kits sometimes. a park tool cone wrench set with 13/14 15/17


for bicycle specific tools I'd go with cyclus and park tool

+1

I much prefer to pick and choose tools, some of the Park tools are great especially the the more specialised/expensive ones but some of them are awful too, Cyclo/Cyclus tools are generally cheaper and I would use those where the tool is a consumable one, in that it will wear out eventually.

Also I have a few Ice toolz (think that's how it's spelled) and for the low price they are very good but I don't expect they will last too many years!

Argos for your bench grinder and don't skimp too much on your vice or it will break.

Holyboy

God damn you Icysean you've just made me spend money on more tools, I thought I'll just have a little look on the usual sites and BOOM the credit card is out!!!

Icyseanfitz

haha glad to be of service, tools are an investment sure

seanybiker

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

overkill imo, stuff like hammers, allen keys, adjustable wrenches I would buy from a good hardware store. Lidl have some great tool kits sometimes. a park tool cone wrench set with 13/14 15/17


for bicycle specific tools I'd go with cyclus and park tool

Rather be over prepared than under though. Good tools can last years.

doozerie

I agree with many of the sentiments expressed already. I rate most Park Tool tools very highly but some individual bits and pieces are not worth the money they charge - as for their good tools, people do flinch at the prices but the real question is whether the tools offer value for money and for me they have done as I've had some of their tools for the best part of 20 years now and they are just as good today as when brand new (mind you, I'm not using them in a busy workshop environment, where quality and durability are thoroughly tested).

If money was no object I'd selectivley buy mostly Park Tool, Shimano, Campagnolo, and some Pedros, tools based on my experiences with them. I've been impressed by the Lezyne mini-tools I've used too but I've not tried any other stuff in the Lezyne range. That shortlist by no means accounts for all of the good quality tools out there obviously but it has proved to be a reliable shortlist for me so far, with the odd exception. Money usually is an object though, so I'd be looking at a toolset in detail before deciding whether it really offered value for money. Some of my thoughts on that Park Tool Professional Tool Kit, based on having used some of the tools in it and read of some of the others:

* The hammer is just a hammer (presumably with a nylon face(s)), and you might(!) find something comparable quite cheaply in a local store, something like Homebase or Woodies for example. Or online, which I've found to be invariably a better option.
* The bearing press cup is good (I have the older model). I used mine just a couple of days ago and it made a tricky job simple and quick. You could make your own cheap alternative, Park Tool even mention that option in their own book, but I'd find it hard to make the time to do this personally and I like knowing that what I'm using will reliably drive the cups in straight.
* The crown race set and head cup remover are good. They are basically specialised hammers though and you could potentially make your own if you wanted to save cash.
* The long handled cone wrenches are good, the short double-ended ones are tedious little yokes that I rarely use.
* The crank extractors are very good, if a little brittle in the case of the driving pin for the CCP-44. Having broken the pin on my CCP-44 (my own stupidity), I've found that the CCP-22 works fine for ISIS and Octalink cranks too if you have a small chunk of metal of the right diameter to bear against the crank - I use the broken head of my CCP-44, or a chunky yoke designed just for that purpose that came with an FSA bottom bracket I bought some time back. Basically, you can save money by going for the CCP-22 only.
* The P-handled hex/allen keys are great, and I reach for them in preference to any other allen keys these days. They don't work where there isn't much clearance though so I also fall back on a set of loose allen keys quite often.
* I've read that the Park Tool adjustable wrench is rubbish, basically a rubbish quality generic brand simply re-branded as Park tool. I use a generic 12" spanner that I bought locally - there's a lot of rubbish available locally too, of course, and in some recognisable brands too (e.g. some Stanley ones suck) so it can take a bit of searching to find something at least half decent. I've found Bahco/Sandvik to be good and recently added a decent Stanley one too.
* The CT-3 chain tool won't handle 11-speed chains. It is a good chain tool though. I bought a CT-4.2 some time back when it was going for half price on a UK site and the pin snapped the first time I used it, now I know why they sell new pins in packs of 3 or 4 I still reach for my CT-3 quite often instead. Oh, and the CT-4.2 won't peen the pin of an 11-speed chain, you'd still need another tool for that (unless you planned to use a replaceable link instead when rejoining the chain, obviously). Another option to consider is the Pedros Tutto Chain Tool, which apparently does peen 11-speed chains as well as opening them but I couldn't find them on sale anywhere when I looked last year.
* I'm not sure whether that chain whip will handle an 11-speed cassette either. It probably does these days but when I checked last year I couldn't find that stated definitively anywhere. I use a Pedros "Vice Whip" instead these days and like the fact that it is less prone to slipping, and it works with 11-speed.
* The BBT-9 bottom bracket tool - the BBT-19 is the same (but without the plastic tool for the crank arm cap - which is available for about 1 or 2 euro in other brands), so I've personally avoided the need for the BBT-9 as I already have the BBT-19.
* Their 32mm and 36mm headset wrenches are good, but obviously only of benefit if you expect to be dealing with threaded headsets.
* Their individual spoke keys are very good and prefereable to using their multi- spoke key.
* The PW-4 pedal wrench is good and would be my choice of pedal wrench - by comparison the PW-3 just doesn't give the right angle to swing from at times.
* I used my SG-6 (threadless saw guide) for the first time last night and it works very well. It is a luxury though and you could save money (but possibly not time!) by making your own alternative.
* I've never placed much value on "standard" toolboxes, they always seem to willfully bury away the tool that I need at that particular moment in time at the bottom of a deep section inside the box. Usually that same section will have something very sharp pointing straight upwards too when I plunge my hand in to root around. And I won't spot that as my other hand will be holding a fragile part in place and my attention will be on not dropping that part while reacing for the tool. Maybe that's just me though, toolboxes don't seem to like me Personally I wouldn't see that Park Tool toolbox adding any value to the toolset as I'd be looking to put the tools into/onto something more accessible anyway, such as hung from a wall, put in drawers, or transferred to a toolbox with more shallow trays. I will admit that I am a sad and lonely obsessive though when it comes to tools and their accessibility.

Well, those are my ramblings, hopefully there is something useful in there. Basically, I'd go through the list of tools in that set, remove the ones I wouldn't see much need for, remove the ones that I could replace with something better and/or cheaper (without sacrificing any/much quality), and then compare the individual prices of what's left with the price of the entire set before deciding if the set was good value - the tricky bit is guaging the likely quality of tools you haven't used though, so maybe some of my comments above, and those of others, will help there.

And to help put my comments/view in better context, I work only on my own bikes and occasionally my wife's bikes so mine is not a workshop environment where tools get used and abused on a daily basis. This means that I can't necessarily comment on whether tools will stand up to the rigours of being swung from day in day out (though some clearly will, 'cos I occasionally resort to hairless ape mode when tackling something that refuses to budge, and the tools have survived. Mostly!). But on the other hand I have the luxury of being able to take the time to focus on the quality, or not, of a tool as I use it whereas in a workshop a tool itself probably can't be the focus of the task at hand due to time pressures. So the usual irony is that an amateur like me is probably harder to please in some respects when choosing tools than a professional who works on bikes every day since I can take the time to fret over some aspect of the tool even if it does actually do the job it is intended to do. If I were a professional then my rating of tools would take into account other factors that might lead to a different choice of tools. As an example, my brother is a tradesman and manages to do a very good job with whatever tools are to hand on a job, he'd be half way through completing a job and doing it well using nothing more a piece of string and a lollipop stick while I was still debating over whether professional tool A or professional tool B was really better suited to the task at hand. That doesn't make my views of the tools above irrelevant, just fussy

doozerie

...oh, and CRC's prices for Park Tool stuff are often not that great. By comparison, from a quick check the same toolset is available for
£799.99 here (plus shipping though) or £899.10 here (including shipping). The image shown for that latter one is different but it seems to be the same product. Digging around further might throw back better prices again, possibly. The individual tools themselves are sometimes available at very good offer prices from a variety of sites.

at1withmyself

Merlins Cycles are having a sale this weekend on their Park tool range.

As above some tools are worth it bit for the hammers etc its best to just pick them up in the local hard ware, ebay is great for home made tools. I got a headset press for less then 30 euro which works perfect although I wish I had it 15 years ago when that type of headset was more common instead of the hammer and wood trick I had to use when fitting them!

Icyseanfitz

doozerie you sir are a legend what a response, thanks a million to all the rest of ye guys as well, a weekend of research starts

gman2k

I made my own headset press this week, total cost about €10!, works a treat.