Bus Eireann Clapped out Coaches

double jeopardy

Bus Eireann Old buses Cork/Waterford

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Does anyone know here whats the oldest buses that Bus Eireann use on it's routes?Myself and my girlfriend had the misfortune of having to use the Cork/Waterford service just shortly after Christmas.One bus left from the station in Cork and another bus arrived to take the rest of us passengers.The state of this coach was a total joke.(It wasn't until we got off in Dungarvan that i saw that it was a 93 kk reg.)Can they be serious?A 20 year old piece of ****e ON A MAIN EXPRESSWAY SERVICE where people pay top dollar? (Iv'e seen a 2009 coach picking up kids as a school bus where we live).The smell of dampness,diesel fumes and general dirt from it was unreal..The driver was turned out in much the same fashion,he did not even wear a uniform.The lockers were filthy with years of dust and it rattled like a theme park ride. It had chewing gum stuck to the seats and they smelt and felt of dampness.I know were in recession but come on like.Surely bus eireann has more modern buses to do these runs.Ive seen some very nice newish coaches on some routes.Is this a regular just on cork/waterford service or are there many more of this kind of bus serving other express routes? I'm just curious about this along with being amazed,annoyed,and ripped off....

Amirani

State-run services in providing **** service shocker...

Terrontress

Are these not coaches owned by private operators under contract to BE?

I know it doesn't make much difference when you give BE your money and a rustbucket shows up, BE have essentially sold you short.

Nevertheless, I think BE's fleet is modern and comfortable

Vic_08

double jeopardy wrote: »

Bus Eireann Old buses Cork/Waterford

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Does anyone know here whats the oldest buses that Bus Eireann use on it's routes?Myself and my girlfriend had the misfortune of having to use the Cork/Waterford service just shortly after Christmas.One bus left from the station in Cork and another bus arrived to take the rest of us passengers.The state of this coach was a total joke.(It wasn't until we got off in Dungarvan that i saw that it was a 93 kk reg.)Can they be serious?A 20 year old piece of ****e ON A MAIN EXPRESSWAY SERVICE where people pay top dollar? (Iv'e seen a 2009 coach picking up kids as a school bus where we live).The smell of dampness,diesel fumes and general dirt from it was unreal..The driver was turned out in much the same fashion,he did not even wear a uniform.The lockers were filthy with years of dust and it rattled like a theme park ride. It had chewing gum stuck to the seats and they smelt and felt of dampness.I know were in recession but come on like.Surely bus eireann has more modern buses to do these runs.Ive seen some very nice newish coaches on some routes.Is this a regular just on cork/waterford service or are there many more of this kind of bus serving other express routes? I'm just curious about this along with being amazed,annoyed,and ripped off....

The Cork-Waterford route is mostly operated by the LC class coaches from 2008 as well as some SC class from 2004.

As you said, the service had already departed full so you were accomodated on a relief coach which would have been a hire in (no BE coaches in the Bus Eireann fleet are KK registered) from an outside operator. The Driver not wearing a uniform would be because he was an employee of the coach operator not a Bus Eireann driver as we do not drive buses from other companies with the exception of Ulsterbus.

The oldest coaches currently in the BE service fleet are the last VP types from 2000 and these will be cascaded to schools work this year. Some coaches from the school fleet are retained in service condition for restricted use on scheduled services, very few are used regularly in this manner and the oldest would be from 1997/8.

Hire-ins are regularly used to cover regular departures and as you experienced to provide extra capacity when a service is oversubscribed. Most of the vehicles used by these contractors would be of a similar age profile to fleet buses; mid to late 2000s. Although there are some older vehicles in use at peak demand times (Fridays and to a lesser extent Sundays) most of these would be in very good condition despite being older.

It could be a case of that coach being used because it was the only option at the time. Loadings on services are not always predictable and although there is usually some cover of a reasonable standard provided there will always be occasions when an extra bus is needed at short notice with little choice but to accept whatever can be sourced rather than leave passengers waiting for the next service or until a better coach becomes available.


20 years is not in itself a problem for a coach, if well maintained there is no reason a coach of this age cannot provide a good standard of accomodation. Coaches are expensive pieces of kit and they are expected to be able to last for 20+ years depending on the use they get, a 20 year old coach that was used for private hire and tour work could easily have less miles than a 10 year old in near continuous service work.


From your description this particular coach was not in anything near good enough condition and I would suggest you make a complaint about this giving as much detail as you can directly to BE management in Cork or Waterford.

The regional manager covering that route is Joe Fitzgerald, Bus Eireann, Capwell, Cork. Phone and e-mail details are available on the BE website, alternatively freepost comment cards are available from staffed bus stations.

double jeopardy

Thanks VIC,thats a lot of usefull info and info that i didnt know.You make great sense is most of what u say BUT!!!! I spoke to an operator here at home and he operates School transport in Kilkenny.They will not be allowed use a bus over 20 yrs for schools let alone a main expressway service.There cant be that shortage of good decent private coaches...not may operators anywhere are operating junk like the one i mentioned above...i know number plates arent always a real reflection on buses or cars for that matter but junk is junk at end of the day and thats what bus eireann provided for its customers on this journey... you would hardly get quarry work nowadays with a20 yr old vehicle no to mind passenger transport.Il take it up anyway,thats for sure and see.....

Pkiernan

dowlingm

Might be interesting to compare BE's choice of equipment on routes with heavy competition to one where there is much less like Cork-Waterford (including no air, rail or Aircoach alternative). Would BE risk putting that bus on Limerick-Waterford for example, where IE's 2700s might not be palaces but they sound better than this!

Armada

My sister has complained to me many a time that the BE school bus which collects her (primary school) kids is an 88 G reg - She said the kids are always complaining of broken, damp and dirty seats.

When she went into BE to complain they were adamant that no coaches older than 20 years were in operation on school services, they even continued to deny it when she brought them a photo of the bus letting kids off at the school!


I think what is clear from what Vic_08 has said (which was very helpful, thank you!) is that BE Management policy and what actually happens on the ground is not always the same.

foggy_lad

Armada wrote: »

My sister has complained to me many a time that the BE school bus which collects her (primary school) kids is an 88 G reg - She said the kids are always complaining of broken, damp and dirty seats.

When she went into BE to complain they were adamant that no coaches older than 20 years were in operation on school services, they even continued to deny it when she brought them a photo of the bus letting kids off at the school!


I think what is clear from what Vic_08 has said (which was very helpful, thank you!) is that BE Management policy and what actually happens on the ground is not always the same.

Also when you get on a bus and the seats are all torn and uncomfortable and there is rainwater sploshing around between the double glazing in the windows and air-conditioning and lights are not working it is most likely that the clapped out coach is in the same condition mechanically with just barely enough done to keep the old girl on the road!

Regardless of who owns these dingy old bangers or who operates and drives them they are in service of Bus Eireann and are not in any way suitable for the task. Bus Eireann have the duty of care to their passengers regardless of who operates or drives the bus! management are well aware of this as it has been highlighted with them many times but it would appear they are more concerned with costs.

Armada

Pkiernan wrote: »

Fridays are getting worse!

Going Forward

double jeopardy wrote: »

Bus Eireann Old buses Cork/Waterford

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Does anyone know here whats the oldest buses that Bus Eireann use on it's routes?Myself and my girlfriend had the misfortune of having to use the Cork/Waterford service just shortly after Christmas.One bus left from the station in Cork and another bus arrived to take the rest of us passengers.The state of this coach was a total joke.(It wasn't until we got off in Dungarvan that i saw that it was a 93 kk reg.)Can they be serious?A 20 year old piece of ****e ON A MAIN EXPRESSWAY SERVICE where people pay top dollar? (Iv'e seen a 2009 coach picking up kids as a school bus where we live).The smell of dampness,diesel fumes and general dirt from it was unreal..The driver was turned out in much the same fashion,he did not even wear a uniform.The lockers were filthy with years of dust and it rattled like a theme park ride. It had chewing gum stuck to the seats and they smelt and felt of dampness.I know were in recession but come on like.Surely bus eireann has more modern buses to do these runs.Ive seen some very nice newish coaches on some routes.Is this a regular just on cork/waterford service or are there many more of this kind of bus serving other express routes? I'm just curious about this along with being amazed,annoyed,and ripped off....

Bizarrely, there is no legal requirement for any bus or HGV to display a current DOE test or (in the case of buses) a current PSV cert; so its impossible for anyone (other than Gardai accessing the central database) to determine whether the vehicle is roadworthy.

A bus is generally PSVed for anything between 1 and 3 years, ie licensed for use by the Gardai, and if its that rough I seriously doubt that it was licensed at all.

I also suspect that BE is paying dirt rates to such private contractors, who in turn are neither incentivised nor indeed able to provide coaches of comparable quality to BE's fleet.

This issue will come to a head if there is an accident involving one of these vehicles subcontacted to BE. As usual it will be too late at that stage.

foggy_lad

Going Forward wrote: »

Bizarrely, there is no legal requirement for any bus or HGV to display a current DOE test or (in the case of buses) a current PSV cert; so its impossible for anyone (other than Gardai accessing the central database) to determine whether the vehicle is roadworthy.

A bus is generally PSVed for anything between 1 and 3 years, ie licensed for use by the Gardai, and if its that rough I seriously doubt that it was licensed at all.

I also suspect that BE is paying dirt rates to such private contractors, who in turn are neither incentivised nor indeed able to provide coaches of comparable quality to BE's fleet.

This issue will come to a head if there is an accident involving one of these vehicles subcontacted to BE. As usual it will be too late at that stage.

from seeing some of the contractors buses in use i would think that if they were busy with their own tour/private work they will have an auld banger that they roll out for the CIE contract jobs and the inspectors and "qualified" persons in the Bus Eireann depot just let it go without a second thought.

Cookie_Monster

foggy_lad wrote: »

from seeing some of the contractors buses in use i would think that if they were busy with their own tour/private work they will have an auld banger that they roll out for the CIE contract jobs and the inspectors and "qualified" persons in the Bus Eireann depot just let it go without a second thought.

if it's on the road for use then it's obviously safe, I'd rather an old bus than no bus TBH. Anyway at least the old ones have some character

Armada

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

if it's on the road for use then it's obviously safe, I'd rather an old bus than no bus TBH. Anyway at least the old ones have some character

What makes you think that just because it is on the road then is "Obviously Safe" ?

By the OP's comments, that amount of damp and dirt does not accumulate on a coach that is in regular use. It sounds to me like that bus was off the road, not licensed and not PSV'd

The only good reason for taking a bus off the road is if it costs more to repair it than the bus is worth. That implies the vehicle is not fit for use.

corktina

the truth is somewhere betweeen those two poles no doubt..

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

if it's on the road for use then it's obviously safe, I'd rather an old bus than no bus TBH. Anyway at least the old ones have some character

That seems to be the flawed logic being used by bus Eireann and it's staff who happily accept really awful buses which are clearly unsuitable for use on commuter or intercity services. Ah sure it'll do, isn't it better than no bus at all! Well no it is not better, if people were told that they were not getting a coach but a sh1t-box of a yoke at least they could make alternative arrangements or go with a proper coach service.

crushproof

Ah the aul BÉ school bus, one bus I got had to be a parody of the school bus in the Simpsons. There was massive gaping hole at the front of the bus beside the gearbox, just had to jump over it. It was a private operator, 78 reg....and this was in 2005. If there's any bus like that still operating it's a national disgrace.

hoarder

BE school buses until a few years ago were in general in deplorable condition. However since a number of incidents (one fatal) there has been massive investment in the schools fleet, and I am aware of only a handful of buses that are still on schools that are 1990-1991 reg with Bus Eireann. The strict rule for privates is that nothing over 20 years old can be used. Bus Eireann are also about to add about 100 new buses to their fleet, which will result in many 2000-2002 service buses cascading to schools and replacing stock from the early 1990's. In general there are probably some bad school buses still out there, but by God nothing like the number of them before, and the average age of the schoolbus has dropped dramatically with many buses under ten years old now on schools

Secondly, the "competition" rule does not actually ring through with BE and their fleet allocation. In general the Cork - Waterford run is allocated BE's newest coaches as it happens, the LC class which are all 2008. Routes such as Dublin - Galway, Galway - Limerick and Galway / Cork - Cork all currently use primarily 2006 and 2007 vintage buses, with some buses on the Western corridor as old as 2001. In general BE's newest coaches go on cross border routes to take advantage of a VAT rebate on such routes. Anything extra can be allocated depending on what they want to upgrade at that time.

Finally, privates on service work are generally good standard. Seems what happened to OP was that a BE service bus broke down and the best that could be done at short notice was a rust bucket. These are few and far between, and generally BE's private hires come from a select few firms in each area, all of whom have decent fleets, such as Bernard Kavanagh

cson

I think the standard of buses in the country is by and large excellent. Certainly on the routes that I have use frequently [Dub-Galway; Dub-Limerick] the standard of BE and private operators coaches are excellent. So much so that I choose express bus over the train as I find that once the bus isn't full its much more comfortable.