Racehorse Trainers fees

easydosh

Hi all
Have a horse that a few of us are thinking of putting in training for point2points or NH rules.
Just wondering if any1 knew the costs of some of these trainers per month and whether they charge all inclusive rate eg vet bills, farriers etc or do they add it on??

Also, i would like to know that if i was given a trainer ahorse at 1000 euro per month what would his net profit be if had around 40 or so horses riding out?

Also anyone got any recommendations for trainers??

thanks

Oscars Well.

Not sure about Ireland but for the likes of Phillip Hobbs in England its £315 a week, not including vet,farrier of transport to/from a race.

Colonel Sanders

Martin Pipe used to train for £45 a day, again not including vets, farrier, entries etc

I'm sure the lesser names would be cheaper. I suppose the trick is ideally to get an under rated trainer with a small enough stable. A lot of people on Betfair mention Colin Bowe. I like Leonard Whitmore in Wexford, does reasonably well with a very small string IMO

I'm sure people on here have been involved with syndicates, they might give you more concrete figures

ft9

Your looking at €1200 pm give or take, plus additional costs e.g. vet, farrier, travel, entry costs....

It would wanna be a good one.

convert

Around €800 per month would probably on the cheapest end of the scale. I know a guy who trained for €600 a month, but he was only starting out and wanted to get a few horses into the yard and get himself established.

Most trainers don't include vet (probably €50 for a vaccination, increasing depending on any other treatment required, farrier (€60-80 per set of shoes every six to eight weeks) or dentist fees, or any other expenses, such as bringing horses away for a spot of work (upwards from €50 per trip).

Re feed and bedding: that varies depending on what brand of feed and type of bedding is being used. You can generally estimate at about €9 per bag of feed (might last a week per horse), €3-4 per small bale of hay (around 2 per week per horse, depending on how much roughage it's been fed and the stage of training they're at). Bedding prices vary from €3 per bale of shavings (probably 3-4 needed for an initial bed, and then about 2-3 bales per week thereafter).

Work riders are normally paid €50 per morning (7.30am till lunchtime (1 or 2 pm), obviously more if they do a full day. Also, if there's someone being brought in specifically to ride a spot of work, it'll cost an extra €50 on top of the fee for using the gallops/schooling ground.

Then on top of all of the above you've got registration fees, entry fees, jockey fees, etc.

The above are probably on the cheaper end of the scale, too, so not to be taken as gospel.

Shelflife

Round about €40 a day. just for training fees on average over the year.

easydosh

Thanks for the clarity on this matter
was told that the costs can be huge
but if this is the case even trainers with around just 40 horses must be minted if they can add on fees for vets farriers etc
for example 40 euro a day with just costs like feed, bedding, work riders, electricity and a few more but still they alot of them must be earning 20euro a horse per day! healthy margins IMO

convert

easydosh wrote: »

Thanks for the clarity on this matter
was told that the costs can be huge
but if this is the case even trainers with around just 40 horses must be minted if they can add on fees for vets farriers etc
for example 40 euro a day with just costs like feed, bedding, work riders, electricity and a few more but still they alot of them must be earning 20euro a horse per day! healthy margins IMO

But you have to take into account the trainer's other expenses, such as insurance (huge), electricity, diesel/petrol/oil, fees, etc. in addition to other, and major, capital costs such as setting up the yard, fencing, implements, feed bins, tack, rugs, boots, other equipment, etc., as well as purchasing a trailer or lorry, cost of gallop, fences. You can't forget that the trainer's time is also worth money, too - he needs to pay himself a salary after paying for all his other expenses.

hucklebuck

Henry De Bromhead was trying to set something up on Facebook for a syndicate and he was quoting just over €2,000 per month, this was all in including jockey, transport, verts, farrier, feed, training etc.

For me well worth the money, you could ring him and I am sure he could source a horse for you too. Probably best to buy a horse from sales ring.

easydosh

wow very expensive but a trainer id say whos going places
how much do these lads on average make as net profit it must be huge??

Any recommendations 4 affordable guys ??

bellybuster12

easydosh wrote: »

wow very expensive but a trainer id say whos going places
how much do these lads on average make as net profit it must be huge??

Any recommendations 4 affordable guys ??

Sounds more like your trying to workout how much the lad down the road is earning from training horses tbh!!!


Running a yard is a tough job financially, it all sounds dandy with the big figures been mentioned, but for most trainers these days its all about keeping the bills paid and hopefully getting a wage out of it.


My advice would be to have 10k-15k minimum in the kitty for the season.


As for a trainer, Julie burke's(jockey) father trains horses around the thurles area. I think they break them, p2p, bumpers, nh and i think it's in and around E200 a week afaik.


It's an expensive game, but with a few of you in it, it makes it more affordable, not to mention it's the ultimate buzz having your own horse racing.

GL

Gavin "shels"

hucklebuck wrote: »

Henry De Bromhead was trying to set something up on Facebook for a syndicate and he was quoting just over €2,000 per month, this was all in including jockey, transport, verts, farrier, feed, training etc.

Not sure if he's doing another but the one he was doing is done and dusted, the group own Kitty Dillon.

emick

It ain't called the 'sport of kings' for nothing.....the expense is enormous and your horse might never even get to race.

hucklebuck

Gavin "shels" wrote: »

hucklebuck wrote: »

Henry De Bromhead was trying to set something up on Facebook for a syndicate and he was quoting just over €2,000 per month, this was all in including jockey, transport, verts, farrier, feed, training etc.

Not sure if he's doing another but the one he was doing is done and dusted, the group own Kitty Dillon.

He has been trying to get numbers since August but no joy, he will be looking at sales again shortly.

He is looking to lease 5% shares in Kitty Dillon at the moment. Why would you bother paying the fees for someone eho can jump back in when she is winning and collect off her. **** or get off the pot.

Anyone interested in buying add Henry as a friend and ask him to invite you as friend of Knockeen as you are interested in joining a syndicate.

Shelflife

There is also the Winning Ways syndicates that im involved in and are well run and good fun.

Involved as in i am part of a syndicate as opposed to the running of the operation.

All expenses are clearly shown and you are always kept up to date with whats going on.

Overthelast

easydosh wrote: »

Hi all
Have a horse that a few of us are thinking of putting in training for point2points or NH rules.
Just wondering if any1 knew the costs of some of these trainers per month and whether they charge all inclusive rate eg vet bills, farriers etc or do they add it on??

Also, i would like to know that if i was given a trainer ahorse at 1000 euro per month what would his net profit be if had around 40 or so horses riding out?

Also anyone got any recommendations for trainers??

thanks

Insurance is 10% of the cost of the horse. The big 5 NH charged as follows up to not long ago. In summary, set aside 1750pm when the horse is in full training and 2100 when the horse runs in that month. Thats roughly what it would end up at, vat inclusive. You can break it up for jockey fees, per day, vets, hri registrations, dentist, shoes etc etc or whatever way you wish, but you wouldn't want to budget for less than approx 22Kpa. Of course, some of the bigger stables have dropped their prices of late given the new reality; go with a smaller profile stable and the price drops accordingly. My only advice to you before selecting a trainer is research them thoroughly in advance -I'm reticient to pass judgement on any particular trainer that I've dealt with in the past - but they range from some who clearly have no idea how to train (!), some who lie constantly, then some who are bluntly honest & ok to communicate with -if you get one of the latter type, then all you need is a half decent animal to have a bit of fun- best of luck !!

Winning Ways Racing

I would have no hesitation in recommending Pat Cloke as someone to give a pointer to. He's between Gorey and Enniscorthy. Would be around €750-800 a month plus extras so factor in €900 a month. He sold a mare at the Brightwell sales in November for €60k after winning a point as would be respected as a seller if you're thinking of going that route. We used him as a pre-trainer for our horses. Did a really good job with them all. A nice fella too.

easydosh

hi ya at that price it seems more affordable and he could give good ind attention.

Rang a trainer charging 1200 e a month today and said he wouldnt make around 100 euro a horse per week which i find strange and a lie but at cloke price ya suggested it seems affordable and in a situation where 1 can make a few pound if he was to be any good:)

any other suggestions also??

hucklebuck

easydosh wrote: »

any other suggestions also??

Yeah, stop asking trainers what their margins are:pac:

Seriously man, have you any idea how much a horse can eat? Plenty of horses are over half a ton and they only put them out to grass when they are finished for the season, the rest of time their food is bought.

If it was me I would get as many people together and send him to a top trainer or get a top trainer to buy him, this way you keep your monthly costs down and have a decent chance of maybe scooping a decent prize.

strik

easydosh wrote: »

he wouldnt make around 100 euro a horse per week which i find strange and a lie

He is not lying my friend...

Land,Gallop,Stables,walker,Horse box,course licence etc. 250,000 = per week 300
Insurance, licence, callenders etc. per year 3000 repayments per week 58
Gallop maintenance, wood chips , diesel etc. per year 3000 per week 58
Rugs,Tack, Diesel,electricity,water,feed pots etc 3000 year = 58 per week

---

Total 474 per week

Costs per horse per week
Feed x3 bags = 37.50
hay canadian 2 bales = 50
Bedding 2 bags shavings = 18
Excersize rider = 75
Farrier = 12.50
vet = 15
Supplements = 5

---

Total 213 pw

10 x paying horses in training @ 40 per day = 2800 per week
-2130 cost horse
-474 costs yard

---

Salary 10,192 euro p.a.
provided every horse is paid for and he keeps 10 paying horses in all year round.

Wile E. Coyote

easydosh wrote: »

hi ya at that price it seems more affordable and he could give good ind attention.

Rang a trainer charging 1200 e a month today and said he wouldnt make around 100 euro a horse per week which i find strange and a lie but at cloke price ya suggested it seems affordable and in a situation where 1 can make a few pound if he was to be any good:)

any other suggestions also??

Seriously, are you looking for a proper trainer or someone who is going to do this for nothing? It seems to me you've no idea of the costs involved in owning or training a horse.

finbarrk

The OP seems more intrested in trainers profit margins than actually putting the 'horse' in training.

convert

From a thread in another forum, it would appear that the OP may be thinking of setting up a yard of his/her own....

JimDeChamp

Any trainer that has half a clue what he's doing could never be paid enough and any fool that thinks its simple to start up a yard and make millions, won't be long until he's in the gutter. Training horses is one of the hardest and most demanding jobs out their and it's not for the weak or pampered

Esroh

strik wrote: »

He is not lying my friend...

Land,Gallop,Stables,walker,Horse box,course licence etc. 250,000 = per week 300
Insurance, licence, callenders etc. per year 3000 repayments per week 58
Gallop maintenance, wood chips , diesel etc. per year 3000 per week 58
Rugs,Tack, Diesel,electricity,water,feed pots etc 3000 year = 58 per week

---

Total 474 per week

Costs per horse per week
Feed x3 bags = 37.50
hay canadian 2 bales = 50
Bedding 2 bags shavings = 18
Excersize rider = 75
Farrier = 12.50
vet = 15
Supplements = 5

---

Total 213 pw

10 x paying horses in training @ 40 per day = 2800 per week
-2130 cost horse
-474 costs yard

---

Salary 10,192 euro p.a.
provided every horse is paid for and he keeps 10 paying horses in all year round.

And It cannot be forgotten that 1 man is not going to train/muckout/groom etc 10 horses on his own once the workriders are gone home so atleast 1 person is neede in this yard fulltime. If its a licenced Trainer the Stable Staff are on a minimum wage. 10,192 euro will not cover that.

Buceph

Are there any books that go into the details of what a trainer gets up to? The day to day of what they're doing, and then what they do around the races?

I was big into horses as a young fella (fell out of it when I was a teenager as I felt all the people my own age were a bit too serious about it, and I just wanted to have fun.) Now I'm doing a programming course and want to program a game. I figured a horse racing game might be a goer. The real techy parts like pathfinding and aritifical intelligence shouldn't be too hard for racing (compared to a sport like rugby, where there's myriad options for when and where to move.) I did a few stable management courses and worked a few point to points, but I've forgotten it all, and I was only ever fetching things for people and annoying the bookies. So I was hoping you'd be able to tell me if there's any books or websites and blogs that go into the detail of what goes on in the industry. Something that'd help me model it for a game.

I've just started on my research last night and read a book called, Stud: Adventures in Breeding, but it doesn't give that much detail (although it's a nice insight into the strangeness of the world.) And I'm going to watch Dustin Hoffman's new show now, "Luck" but I really need to find something that goes into a lot more detail. Any help would be appreciated.