Off-Season 2012: Coaching Changes (NFL)

Matt Santos

Just confirmed.
Looks like a total offensive makeover on the way...

Syferus

It's looking more and more likely that Peyton will be traded even if he's healthy as a horse. Not a huge amount of point getting a new coach and general manager and then spending time planning for Manning when you're drafting a pro-ready QB of Luck's quality. Manning will want to be challenging for rings and the Colts look to be taking stock, not loading up.

I sincerely hope that Manning does win a second ring, there's very few players you can say deserve it, but's he's definitely one of them.

ABajaninCork

And that's his reward for getting Andrew Luck!

Some people have no gratitude...:D

davyjose

No surprise really. He's part of the Polian/Dungy/Polian jr love in that set in after super bowl 41. Manning is clearly a loyal guy and probably worries about his future somewhat, but deep down he can't be happy at how the Polians allowed the franchise to fall apart over the last few years. When Dungy left, the whole thing needed a reboot. I'm sorry it didn't happen when Manning was genuinely ready to move. but the time has probably come.

In my early days as a Colts fan, I used to worry if I wasn't really just a Manning fan. I know now I'm not. But he's my Cantona.

Matt Santos

Pretty certain that Peyton gets traded now so who are the contender teams?
Jets have been spoken about but I really dont think that he can do New York with Eli in the same house!
Archie has been on record saying that Peyton loves Indianapolis and likes his home there. So, cant see him go to a divisional rival so that is Jacksonville, Tennessee and Houston out of the frame.
Washington- Obvious lookin for a QB
Minnesota- The Ponder draft doesn't look like a long term answer.
Seattle- Again looking hard to fill QB with a view to replace with long term.
Chicago- My sneak scenario
Denver- If Tebow ain't the answer you replace him with GOD.

M

Syferus

Matt Santos wrote: »

Pretty certain that Peyton gets traded now so who are the contender teams?
Jets have been spoken about but I really dont think that he can do New York with Eli in the same house!
Archie has been on record saying that Peyton loves Indianapolis and likes his home there. So, cant see him go to a divisional rival so that is Jacksonville, Tennessee and Houston out of the frame.
Washington- Obvious lookin for a QB
Minnesota- The Ponder draft doesn't look like a long term answer.
Seattle- Again looking hard to fill QB with a view to replace with long term.
Chicago- My sneak scenario
Denver- If Tebow ain't the answer you replace him with GOD.

M

No chance of Manning being available if Tebow implodes (which he won't, despite plenty of people hoping so), Chicago are very happy with Cutler, Minnesota would be stupid to give up on Ponder (and indeed Webb, unless someone like the Broncos make a very good offer) when he's far from the problem on that team and did pretty well for a rookie without an off-season.

Washington, I think, are one the obvious front-runners because of Snyder's money and the presence of a good (if pretty insane) coach, good run game and good defense. Washington would only need a #1 receiver to be a real contender for a deep run if Manning joined up.

Seattle seem too mired in mediocrity for Manning to join up, honestly. The Ravens and the Jets would be two teams that would have to be more nature fits to a player wanting to be the piece that pushes the team over the edge into Superbowl-calibur team.

Hammar

Syferus wrote: »

No chance of Manning being available if Tebow implodes (which he won't, despite plenty of people hoping so), Chicago are very happy with Cutler, Minnesota would be stupid to give up on Ponder (and indeed Webb, unless someone like the Broncos make a very good offer) when he's far from the problem on that team and did pretty well for a rookie without an off-season.

Washington, I think, are one the obvious front-runners because of Snyder's money and the presence of a good (if pretty insane) coach, good run game and good defense. Washington would only need a #1 receiver to be a real contender for a deep run if Manning joined up.

Seattle seem too mired in mediocrity for Manning to join up, honestly. The Ravens and the Jets would be two teams that would have to be more nature fits to a player wanting to be the piece that pushes the team over the edge into Superbowl-calibur team.

Would Peyton go to a team in the NFC East(Redskins) with Eli already there?
Arizona could perhaps be an option if the Cardinals have indeed given up on Kolb and i don't think anyone reckons John Skelton is anything more than a decent backup in the NFL.

Stev_o

Remember that Manning has to go somewhere where he'll be in charge of everything. Thus id say it would rule out any stern head coaches. He needs a softie that he can walk all over.

frostie500

I think the best opportunity for Manning to be successful is Miami. They need a QB and have some weapons on offence to go with a very good defence. They would be the best team that he could join and he'd get the chance to play Brady twice a year which he'd relish. Add in that he would be seen as the heir to Marino, his hero, and its easy to see the appeal. If he leaves I'd love to see him go to the Jets and to be honest I'd say that Eli would love it. He wouldnt shrink from the challenge, especially given the way he has played all year

Justin10

Just a note for people that keep saying it Manning will NOT be traded.
He will be released.

Syferus

Stev_o wrote: »

Remember that Manning has to go somewhere where he'll be in charge of everything. Thus id say it would rule out any stern head coaches. He needs a softie that he can walk all over.

A gross misappropriation, Manning has always come across as a pro's pro. He'd obviously want assurances that he'd have the influence that his talent and experience - being a defacto on-field OC for many years - warrant but I don't see him not being able to work with a quality coach.

Stev_o

Syferus wrote: »

A gross misappropriation, Manning has always come across as a pro's pro. He'd obviously want assurances that he'd have the influence that his talent and experience - being a defacto on-field OC for many years - warrant but I don't see him not being able to work with a quality coach.

Im not doubting his talent and his attitude but hey lets look at his time in Indy where he pretty much ran the whole show both on and off the field when it come to offence. We all know of the "stories" that he would get all the snaps at practice and no one else. I very much think he would be suited in places where he can take control and be the centre of everything as opposed to a OC coming in and telling him to how to play.

Chucky the tree

He's work perfectly with a defensive head coach like Rex Ryan. Ryan wouldn't care who or how his offense is working as long its doing well.

Chardee MacDennis

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He's work perfectly with a defensive head coach like Rex Ryan. Ryan wouldn't care who or how his offense is working as long its doing well.

the Jets seem to suit perfectly in everything (playoff contenders, want a new qb, decent receiving options and good running game) except being in New York

Max Power1

I think (ironically) he could follow the same path as Brett Favre. Get released and then join the jets.

Syferus

BastardPrince wrote: »

the Jets seem to suit perfectly in everything (playoff contenders, want a new qb, decent receiving options and good running game) except being in New York

I think Santonio Holmes' chances of being a Jet come September are lowering by the day and even then he hasn't shown much lately, I'd go as far as to say he's plenty over-rated for a guy who has only ever surpassed 1000 yards once in his career. Plax is a great end-zone target, but he's going 35 and hardly a dominant receiver. Overall that corps isn't particularly great with Brad Smith and Derek Mason now gone, meaning less utility/reliable chain movers.

I'd also wonder if the Jets general demeanour matches up at all well with Manning, but the Jets are one of the obvious options.

Stev_o wrote: »

Im not doubting his talent and his attitude but hey lets look at his time in Indy where he pretty much ran the whole show both on and off the field when it come to offence. We all know of the "stories" that he would get all the snaps at practice and no one else. I very much think he would be suited in places where he can take control and be the centre of everything as opposed to a OC coming in and telling him to how to play.

But even in that context a team like the Redskins, where you've got a strong-willed coach like Shanahan, his OC is his own son and it's questionable as to how much of the offense is Senior's handy-work and how much of it is Junior's. I think he'd fit into that situation pretty well.

tallaghtoutlaws

Peyton Manning will be the starting QB in Indianapolis this season if healthy and the Colts will take Luck. Thats the way I see and I can see the Colts make it work.

kmart6

Really don't see the need for a separate thread for this, or any coaching decisions really! Could easily be included in the General thread, which it was when it was confirmed he was let go an hour and a half before this thread started!

kmart6

Don't see the issue here, he made a mistake and has to live with that, but that man has given his life to Penn State and it would be terrible if they turned his back on him completely!

Neil3030

Merging this with the Paterno thread, as there will be a lot of coaching changes in the coming months and we can't have a thread for them all.

Would people rather everything here or a separate thread for NCAA?

kmart6

I'd have a separate one for NFL and NCAA...it could get very messy with the two together! As well as the fact some people wouldn't follow both!

RGIII

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Peyton Manning will be the starting QB in Indianapolis this season if healthy and the Colts will take Luck. Thats the way I see and I can see the Colts make it work.

How? Doesn't make sense financially.

kmart6

Yes it can! Manning may be willing to restructure his contract, they could work Lucks contract that he'll get big money in his 3rd year! The times of huge amounts for the #1 are gone with the new CBA!

RGIII

Manning cannot restructure his contract under the new CBA. Luck can also not restructure his contract. The Colts cannot trade him. If they keep him after March 8th, they owe him 28 million. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Reggie Wayne and Robert Mathis also FAs? Just doesn't add up.

Chucky the tree

kmart6 wrote: »

Yes it can! Manning may be willing to restructure his contract, they could work Lucks contract that he'll get big money in his 3rd year! The times of huge amounts for the #1 are gone with the new CBA!

Still makes no sense for Colts financially. Newton still got $22m guranteed last year over 4 years and this year won't be much different so Luck will be looking at $5m per year and for a back up that's alot of money. Manning might restructure but he'll still want very good money. Again it's not a very good idea to lump all of Lucks contract into one year and that's not going to make dealing with the cap very easy.

With the colts having Wayne and Mathais as free agents and still needing some FAs to improve investing that much money into two QBs is a bad idea finacially and from a football point of view. I'd be shocked if Manning stays with the Colts and they draft Luck.

kmart6

Both the Colts and Manning could decide on an extension that would change the amounts that have to be paid and when, so it is very much possible!!!

Who said anything about restructuring Luck's contract?! Can't restructure something that doesn't exist!

Wayne and Mathis are, have shown in the past with Harrison that they have no problem letting people go and won't pay out big money on older players!

I'd be worried about the fact Garcon, Gonzalez, Saturday, Lacey, Foster, Wheeler and others are FA's!

tallaghtoutlaws

RGIII wrote: »

Manning cannot restructure his contract under the new CBA. Luck can also not restructure his contract. The Colts cannot trade him. If they keep him after March 8th, they owe him 28 million. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't Reggie Wayne and Robert Mathis also FAs? Just doesn't add up.

Luck hasn't signed any contract so once it meets the CBA minimum it still has to be negotiated. As for Manning they can re-structure if Manning agrees to it. But according to what Schefter reported today:

ESPN's Adam Schefter reported on SportsCenter Wednesday that Peyton Manning "will not push back" his $28 million roster bonus and will either stay with the Colts or be released by the Colts.
Per Schefter, the sides are dug in. Owner Jim Irsay isn't going to trade Manning, and Manning won't restructure his contract to allow the Colts to get something in return. The $28 million bonus is due on March 8. Irsay is staunch in his commitment to pay Manning if he's healthy, but he's going to have to receive medical clearance from neck surgery in order to see the money.

If Schefter is right and Manning is healthy Irsay will pay the man.

kmart6

Not questioning Schefter, but I will take it with a pinch a salt since Isray called him out last week or the week before on making false reports about the Colts!

UnitedIrishman

News doing the rounds on twitter that Peyton Manning will retire. Not exactly a brilliant source (actor Rob Lowe) but possible nonetheless.

kmart6

Which was dendied by Archie and then Peyton's agent!

Matt Santos

kmart6 wrote: »

Really don't see the need for a separate thread for this, or any coaching decisions really! Could easily be included in the General thread, which it was when it was confirmed he was let go an hour and a half before this thread started!

Thanks kmart for yer comment but I think that Caldwell being released, with the Peyton question looming and the obvious 1st Draft pick in the mix as well it was worth its own thread. Its got a lot of interest and has stood up as a topic of worthy.
Also, I checked for your reporting time on the other thread and its just 29 mins earlier! Not an hour and a half! I doff my cap to you being the first to report it here but hardly to the point of castigating me for starting a seperate thread.

M

kmart6

I wasn't castigating you, but surely you can see how pointless it would be to have a separate thread for every coaching change, and after it being pointed out at least we now have one thread to just deal with coaching changes!

heyjude

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Peyton Manning will be the starting QB in Indianapolis this season if healthy and the Colts will take Luck. Thats the way I see and I can see the Colts make it work.

If Manning is fit, I assume he will continue to take every snap in practice, in which case, you would be signing Luck to a $5m a year contract and then expecting him to watch practice from the sidelines(or be the scout team QB), in which case its hard to see how he could get game ready, never having worked with the starting wide receivers.

Would Luck want this situation in which his skills would be allowed to decay for a few years until Manning finally retires or if this was the scenario, would Luck refuse to sign for the Colts and demand a trade like Elway or Rivers did ? Luck would be in high demand by several other teams, all of which would pay him comparable money and most of which would have him starting by mid-season if not by week one.

kmart6

heyjude wrote: »

If Manning is fit, I assume he will continue to take every snap in practice, in which case, you would be signing Luck to a $5m a year contract and then expecting him to watch practice from the sidelines(or be the scout team QB), in which case its hard to see how he could get game ready, never having worked with the starting wide receivers.

I presume you mean just like every other back up QB in the league?! Did it do Aaron Rodgers any harm sitting behind Farve for a few seasons?!

If Manning is back and fit you can be guaranteed he will stay back with his WR's and TE's to get timings right and he will have Luck there with him!

heyjude wrote: »

Would Luck want this situation in which his skills would be allowed to decay

That won't happen unless he allows it to happen!

davyjose

heyjude wrote: »

If Manning is fit, I assume he will continue to take every snap in practice, in which case, you would be signing Luck to a $5m a year contract and then expecting him to watch practice from the sidelines(or be the scout team QB), in which case its hard to see how he could get game ready, never having worked with the starting wide receivers.

Would Luck want this situation in which his skills would be allowed to decay for a few years until Manning finally retires or if this was the scenario, would Luck refuse to sign for the Colts and demand a trade like Elway or Rivers did ? Luck would be in high demand by several other teams, all of which would pay him comparable money and most of which would have him starting by mid-season if not by week one.

I believe it was Eli who forced the trade.

But personally, I don't see both Luck and manning working.

UnitedIrishman

davyjose wrote: »

I believe it was Eli who forced the trade.

But personally, I don't see both Luck and manning working.

Same as, can't see why he'd want to sit behind Manning who - if he's fit this year then he's going to be there for 2-3 more years. You could point to Rodgers and Favre but Luck is far more ready than Rodgers was to be a starting QB.

If I was Luck I'd be letting Colts privately know that I'm not going to sit on the bench and wait, and force make them play their hand be it to trade him or whatever.

kmart6

Joe Philbin to Miami!

spiralism

kmart6 wrote: »

Joe Philbin to Miami!

****s sake, Mike McCoy for the foreseeable future as our OC so. Least it's stability..

heyjude

kmart6 wrote: »

I presume you mean just like every other back up QB in the league?! Did it do Aaron Rodgers any harm sitting behind Farve for a few seasons?!

If Manning is back and fit you can be guaranteed he will stay back with his WR's and TE's to get timings right and he will have Luck there with him!



That won't happen unless he allows it to happen!

The situation between Rodgers and Favre was completely different to the one that would exist between Luck and Manning, for Rodgers was drafted by the Packers with the 24th pick of the first round and so wouldn't have expected to start from day one, while his contract may not have been as expensive either. The Colts have the first pick so if they choose Luck, he will be the first pick of the draft and nowadays a QB selected with the first pick of the draft is expected to contribute early, not be a spectator for a year or two.

As for Luck being with Manning, that's all very well, but at some stage if Luck is to master the offence and challenge to start, then he needs to work with the starting receivers and TE's and historically, the backup QB at the Colts hasn't been given the opportunity. Would Manning agree to allow his backup take 20-30% of the snaps in practice ? History would suggest otherwise.

As for it being no different for Luck than any other backup QB in the league, well how many backups were just made the first pick in the draft and how many backup quarterbacks are paid $5m a year or more ? Both these facts make it different.

kmart6

Anyway...back to Coaching changes...what this thread is for!

Adam Schefter wrote:

Chargers announced they promoted their special teams coordinator Rich Bisaccia to assistant head coach.

kmart6

Just confirmed....

Adam Schefter wrote:

Now official: Oakland Raiders are hiring former Broncos defensive coordinator Dennis Allen as head coach. Deal done.

spiralism

kmart6 wrote: »

Just confirmed....

****s sake. ANOTHER DC for the broncos so, that'll be our 7th in 7 years.. Supposedly Fox is meeting with Jack Del Rio at the Senior bowl to see if he's interested

mikemac1

Ravens DC Chuck Pagano the new head coach of the Colts

Marvin Lewis
Mike Nolan
Mike Singletary
Rex Ryan
Jack Del Rio
Working with Ravens D is a shortcut to a job

As a Ravens fan I'm disappointed

Though I certainly can't blame Pagano for taking a head coaching job

He'll be missed
Ravens defense are consistently good but Pagano reintroduced the agressivess and swagger
Sack numbers jumped from a franchise low of twenty seven to 48, joint third highest in the league

Hope he takes Cam Cameron with him lol

kmart6

Hmmm don't know what to make of this one really!

Doesn't give any indication as to what will happen with Peyton either!

matthew8

I'm happy for Pagano, hopefully we get a new good DC.

kmart6

That sounds like your saying Pagano wasn't a good DC!

davyjose

kmart6 wrote: »

That sounds like your saying Pagano wasn't a good DC!

The guy brings a pretty good record with him into the job. He seems to have made a difference wherever he's gone, as a DC and Secondary Coach. Time will tell how he stands up as a head coach, in a rebuilding franchise, but for me, this could have been a lot, lot worse. I'm quietly happy.

poldebruin

I think this is the final sign that Manning will be on his way from the Colts now. They have completely cleared house, and Manning is all that is left now.

With the Money due to him, the 3 neck surgeries and the Colts holding the 1st pick, a new HC and GM will want to hitch their wagon to Luck, and seek to trade Manning out of the conference.

kmart6

poldebruin wrote: »

With the Money due to him, the 3 neck surgeries and the Colts holding the 1st pick, a new HC and GM will want to hitch their wagon to Luck, and seek to trade Manning out of the conference.

They will not pay him and then try to trade him! It'll be release him or hold onto him!

poldebruin

kmart6 wrote: »

They will not pay him and then try to trade him! It'll be release him or hold onto him!

Maybe so, I don't pay much attention to cap rules, space, bonus dates etc. There always seems to be a way to circumvent them! Thanks for the clarification.

It's such a weird thing - the Broncos get nothing for Orton, nearly nothing for Lloyd, while the Eagles got a 2 and a 4 for McNabb (and Washington even got a 6 for him the following year!)

Imagine getting nothing for Peyton Manning though!

kmart6

Unfortunately that is looking like a strong possibility!

The $28m Peyton is due, is due on the 8th March, they could change this be renegotiating his contract, that would only happen if he's staying and in my eyes if he is staying I'd like to see him change up his contract and not take so much money...sigh of good faith towards the Colts for standing by him through a season long injury!

Let him go, and it clears a lot of cap space to sign some of the many FA's we have! Although, with peyton gone i really think Saturday would retire like he suggested or follow Peyton wherever he goes! Can't see them resigning Wayne, due to age and going in a new direction! Could see them holding onto Mathis though since Pagano is defense orientated.

The only plus to getting nothing for him would be the fact we're getting Luck and the hope he could be a new Peyton and lead a decade of success!