Confused about Maximum Rent Levels/Rent Allowance

dazzlemoo

Hi there, I'm new to boards so I apologise if this isn't the right place to post this, but I'm really worried and confused.
My partner & I receive Rent Allowance for our two bed apartment and we currently receive €514 every month-our rent is €710.
€710 was the maximum rent level for our area.
I'm confused because I've seen somewhere that the maximum rent level for my area has been cut to €525, so does this mean my rent is now deemed too high to be eligible for the Rent Allowance?
My landlord is not going to reduce his rent to that amount-no way, and I don't expect him to.

I have another question if you can help too.
How much is the maximum rent level in Tallaght, Dublin?
Does anyone know? I can't find this information anywhere and I'd be very grateful if you could help.

Thanks for reading.
And before anyone decides to have a go at me for claiming Rent Allowance, I am a full-time carer and I'm not "sponging" off the state.

Thanks to anyone in advance, who can help me with these questions.

cee_jay

This is a reminder to posters to stick to answering the question asked by the OP. Anyone posts regarding government policy, rants against rent allowance raising rent prices and the likes will be banned.

dazzlemoo

I'm sorry but the thread I found by the OP was closed so how could I reply?

MissFlitworth

Hey OP - you can see the rent allowance limits for different areas here on the Citizens Information website, from looking at it it seems the limit for a couple with no kids in Tallaght would be €700.

If your rent is above the limit set for your area you'd be expected to either negotiate it down or find somewhere that's within the limits. I'm open to correction here but I think the CWO's have zero leeway when it comes to this

Slydice

Also, from what I've read on this board, the new rate seems to only apply if you move to a new place or if the department performs a review on your rent allowance.

So, unless you've been notified of the review (or a result of a review), don't panic just yet.

Do start preparing just in case.

Keep an eye on daft and myhome. Landlords will hopefully begin reducing their asking prices as they won't be getting interest if they are above the social welfare limits (unless there is huge demand which is unlikely).

Then, if the market rents lower themselves, go to your landlord and see if you can negotiate a rent reduction. If your landlord says no, hopefully other places will have become available at your rent allowance rate.

One thing I recommend remembering is that the property market moves slowly. It changes more week to week or month to month rather than day to day. So try not to rush if you don't have to. Try to get as informed as you can about what is going on.

Lugh Ildanach

CWOs do have some discretion in relation to these limits, although as a rule they should (and are likely to be) be applied. It may be that if your landlord will reduce the rent, but just not the whole way, that the CWO may be prepared to exercise their discretion, even for a short period. When your rent supplement is being reviewed, approach your landlord first, and see what you can get (you may be surprised), and then go back to your CWO and see what they are prepared to accept.

The other alternative is that if the landlord will not reduce the rent and the CWO will not accept whatever reduction you have been able to secure, that you may have a case to take to the Private Residential Tenancies Board against the landlord. It is illegal for landlords to charge more than the market rate for rent, and if a tenant believes their rent is above the market rate they can request a review. The PRTB have the power to make a determination if the landlord refuses.

The stated rationale for the reductions is that the new levels reflect the reduction in market rental rates, so if your landlord won't reduce the rent, he would have to be able to justify why his rental rates do reflect the true market value.

For more info on making referral to PRTB see here https://www.prtb.ie/

pandabrian

cee_jay wrote: »

This is a reminder to posters to stick to answering the question asked by the OP. Anyone posts regarding government policy, rants against rent allowance raising rent prices and the likes will be banned.

Why is discussion of government policy not allowed? I have seen that mantra used on a few threads. Governments and government policies are one of the most talked about topics in everyone's everyday lives, and on a forum such as this, expected. Censorship of this kind is spooky.

mp22

pandabrian wrote: »

Why is discussion of government policy not allowed? I have seen that mantra used on a few threads. Governments and government policies are one of the most talked about topics in everyone's everyday lives, and on a forum such as this, expected. Censorship of this kind is spooky.

If you would care to read the forum charter you would know why!
Banned.

I am dreading my review. I've lived in my flat for 3 years now, it's my home. I'm currently doing a FAS course that ends in September and will have to move out if I don't get the rent allowance. I can't work as I'm doing weekend work experience for the good of my course.
My rent is 450 pm sharing with another in a two room flat. Has anyone seen accommodation for 300 per month per person? I live in D2 atm, but will definitely have to move away from this area. No chance of finding shared accommodation for €300 a month round here! No way will the landlord reduce the rent from 900 a month (between two) to 600.
I also have a lease, if I am forced to move out, where will I stand on breaking my lease?

MRBEAVER

pandabrian wrote: »

Why is discussion of government policy not allowed? I have seen that mantra used on a few threads. Governments and government policies are one of the most talked about topics in everyone's everyday lives, and on a forum such as this, expected. Censorship of this kind is spooky.

I agree. Property owners are now threatening mass evictions in retaliation for any cuts to this subsidy and many are unaware of the role of rent alllowance in keeping rent levels high to the benefit of noone except landlords. Banning those who legitimately question the levels of rent allowance on his forum indicates a hidden agenda and undeclared interest of the moderator

Expressing an opinion should not result in a ban.

cee_jay

MRBEAVER banned for dragging thread off topic, and 2 off topic posts deleted.
As moderators, we do not want to have to keep closing these threads on rent allowance, as people are confused about what is going to happen to their payments.
If you wish to discuss Government Policy on rent allowance, Politics or Irish Economy are forums that may be more suitable to this - I don't regularly post there so maybe check with the moderators there that your post/thread will be in line with their charter.
This forum is for specific questions people have regarding their dealings with Social welfare system, and any queries they may have regarding same.
Please read forum charter before posting, and try to keep replies on topic to the OPs question.

UPDATE: Here is a thread on rent allowance http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056518998 if you wish to discuss it on Irish Economy.

dazzlemoo

Thank you to all of you who gave me good detailed answers, you were very helpful and to the mods, I am sorry for posting a thread without replying to the OP but I got a bit confused as to where to leave my posts.
I'll do more research on this site so I don't make the same mistake again

cee_jay

dazzlemoo your thread is fine - my on thread warning was an on-thread pre-emptive warning to other posters to make sure to stick to answering your question so you can understand the rent allowance process. Other recent threads on this topic have descended into people arguing about government policy, which does not help you as someone in receipt of this payment.

dazzlemoo

cee_jay wrote: »

dazzlemoo your thread is fine - my on thread warning was an on-tread pre-emptive warning to other posters to make sure to stick to answering your question so you can understand the rent allowance process. Other recent threads on this topic have descended into people arguing about government policy, which does not help you as someone in receipt of this payment.

I understand cee-jay and yes it wouldn't help if people used the thread to argue.
I am grateful to those who helped me by giving me some good information.
Thanks for clarifying

shangri la

Deleted User wrote: »

I am dreading my review. I've lived in my flat for 3 years now, it's my home. I'm currently doing a FAS course that ends in September and will have to move out if I don't get the rent allowance. I can't work as I'm doing weekend work experience for the good of my course.
My rent is 450 pm sharing with another in a two room flat. Has anyone seen accommodation for 300 per month per person? I live in D2 atm, but will definitely have to move away from this area. No chance of finding shared accommodation for ?300 a month round here! No way will the landlord reduce the rent from 900 a month (between two) to 600. I also have a lease, if I am forced to move out, where will I stand on breaking my lease?

how did you manage to get rent supplement for 450/month for a single person in the first place?

Is the max rent in scd now 300/month?

LegacyUser

So the max rent supp will change for new claims, existing claims that move or if there is a review of your claim. Does anybody know what may cause a review?

snubbleste

rentsupp wrote: »

So the max rent supp will change for new claims, existing claims that move or if there is a review of your claim. Does anybody know what may cause a review?

Everyone will be reviewed in the next month or so.

Lugh Ildanach

Deleted User wrote: »

I am dreading my review. I've lived in my flat for 3 years now, it's my home. I'm currently doing a FAS course that ends in September and will have to move out if I don't get the rent allowance. I can't work as I'm doing weekend work experience for the good of my course.
My rent is 450 pm sharing with another in a two room flat. Has anyone seen accommodation for 300 per month per person? I live in D2 atm, but will definitely have to move away from this area. No chance of finding shared accommodation for €300 a month round here! No way will the landlord reduce the rent from 900 a month (between two) to 600.
I also have a lease, if I am forced to move out, where will I stand on breaking my lease?

YOu must approach your landlord first. You may be surprised how much he will come down. If he comes down some, but not all of the way, go back to your CWO and see if they can exercise some discretion.

If he won't go down at all, then consider lodging complaint to the PRTB.

If you break your tenancy, then your landlord may sue you, although this is unlikely. More likely is that he'll keep your deposit. Again this is something you could appeal to the PRTB, although it would be on rather shaky grounds. In those circumstances you would have a good case to make to the CWO for them to pay your deposit in any new accommodation that you secure under the new limits.

stargazer 68

Nice to find an RA thread thats not bashing RA tenants!

I have been in my house 6 years now. The rent is 1000 pm of which I pay 600 - RA is 400. This is obviously going to be reduced along with my lone parents so 1000 is going to be a struggle. I have been looking for a new place (cant see my LL reducing the rent to the new limits) but even small apts are 950 pm which is still over the limit.

I just have a rolling contract with him so there is no date for renewal etc. Not really sure what to do!!

Rasmus

Lugh Ildanach wrote: »

If he won't go down at all, then consider lodging complaint to the PRTB

Can you really refer to PRTB because the landlord won't reduce rent though?

Lugh Ildanach

Rasmus wrote: »

Can you really refer to PRTB because the landlord won't reduce rent though?

Yes you can really do it.

It is unlawful for landlords to charge more than the market rate, and tenants have a statutory right to a complaint to the PRTB if they believe that the landlord is charging more than the market rates.

I think its pretty obvious that market rents have gone down. If landlords are refusing to lower their rents, then they must be able to justify some other factor why the rent that they charge reflects the market rates.

That doesn't mean that the market rates are going to be as low as the rent supplement levels set, but they may lie somewhere in the middle. At the very least people have the right to refer the matter to the PRTB and ask for them to determine what the market rent is. With a PRTB adjudication, a person would have a better chance of going to the CWO and asking for discretion to apply, or alternatively putting pressure on the government to revise the rent limits upwards.

Rasmus

Thanks. Unfortunately it will take a while for the 'market rate' to adjust accordingly. I wonder what RA tenants can do in the meantime.

Lugh Ildanach

That is the strange thing with rent supplement, in that it actually has an impact on the market rate. It is hard to tell what the current market rate actually is.

But the government are essentially saying that current market rate is reflected in these new limits. A person affected can apply to the PRTB at this stage. Tenants should let the PRTB decide what market rates are rather than rely on landlords to decide it.

Rasmus

It has an impact on the market rate except in an area where most landlords refuse RA. (Not elaborating as I am aware that this thread should not go off-topic).

confuseddotcom

What is market rate and how is it worked out on my current accommodation?

mp22

confuseddotcom wrote: »

What is market rate and how is it worked out on my current accommodation?

If I may point you in the direction of the property and accomdation forum http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=38

Slydice

Dovies wrote: »

Nice to find an RA thread thats not bashing RA tenants!

I have been in my house 6 years now. The rent is 1000 pm of which I pay 600 - RA is 400. This is obviously going to be reduced along with my lone parents so 1000 is going to be a struggle. I have been looking for a new place (cant see my LL reducing the rent to the new limits) but even small apts are 950 pm which is still over the limit.

I just have a rolling contract with him so there is no date for renewal etc. Not really sure what to do!!

For a steady 6 yr tenant... it would be silly for your landlord not to at least be willing to talk to you to discuss lowering the rent by 50 quid. I'd say it'd be a good idea to give it a shot.

From 950 being your limit, you must be in Dublin but not Fingal. Keep an eye on daft and myhome and see if any places rents come down towards the 950 region. It might help you persuade your landlord or give you some options if the landlord just won't reduce the rent.

david75

I've just got the dreaded rent review letter too. im bricking myself.
dont know what to do.

RollYerOwn

I don't agree that the RA levels reflect the market value.

It's been over a month I can't find anywhere that is below the threshold and to add another little fly to the ointment neither can I find somewhere that doesn't say "rent allowance not accepted" on daft or rent.ie.

midlandsmissus

Did they cut anybody else off while under review? I was cut off RA two weeks and had no idea why, was so sick I couldnt go to the CWO. Then i got a letter two days ago saying I'm under review and failure to respond to this letter may result in being cut off.

But they already cut me off two weeks ago without giving me any notice? Im so in debt now Im so worried, Im going to see CWO on Tuesday, please God she will back pay me, I cant see why they cut me off, anyone else experience this?

Also have to ring landlord to negotiate rent down, worried

MariMel

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Did they cut anybody else off while under review? I was cut off RA two weeks and had no idea why, was so sick I couldnt go to the CWO. Then i got a letter two days ago saying I'm under review and failure to respond to this letter may result in being cut off.

But they already cut me off two weeks ago without giving me any notice? Im so in debt now Im so worried, Im going to see CWO on Tuesday, please God she will back pay me, I cant see why they cut me off, anyone else experience this?

Also have to ring landlord to negotiate rent down, worried

Ive lost the odd week RA but there is usually some explanation for this....like your monthly rent form wasnt in on time or you signed on late. Ive always gotten it back paid once Ive gone in and explained things to them. You wont know anything until you get in to see your CWO.

Everyone is under review or will be under review in the coming month or so. I got my notice from my landlord last week, given the area I am from the rent they were asking in just under the average for round here. They would much rather leave the house empty than reduced the rent. I tell you....trying to find somewhere round here thats within the new limits for me is next to impossible. Ive asked a few LLs if they would consider taking a reduced rent if ive seen there property up for rent for a while. Ive also left my details with the letting agents in case they knew someone who would accept a lower levelk than advertised.
As for moving out of this area.....people are assessed by their needs for that particular area by the housing authority. Moving authorities is not really an option.
I wish everyone the best in their negotiations or search for new properties.

pejay

I have tried to renegotiate my rent through the letting agency that i rent from, and they will definatly not budge, i got my form on the 23rd feb stating it had to be in 2 weeks from the date of the letter which said the 10th of Feb,i rang the CWO as it only gave me a day to get the form filled in as the form was sitting on the desk in navan for 12 days, i dont even know now if my rent allowance will be there to cover this month.

The new rent limit for my area is €675, my rent is currently €850 which i contribute towards it, does anyone know what will happen if you have negotiated your rent and you cant get it down, I would really hate to leave the property i am in as i have 4 children that go to the local school.

Would be able to just increase our own contributions towards the shortfall of the RA or do we defo have to find a house within the new limit, ass i canmt find anywhere on the internet at the moment.

david75

Well, I struck out with my Landlord. he's not dropping it. In fairness, I have a pretty brilliant CWO, who explained to me if this happens, i basically fill out the review forms, and appeal it(he gave me the form already) and they'll 'more than likely' pay the agreed initial supplement until the end of the tenancy. I've completely screwed if they don't and like some of you have discovered(and my own CWO pointed out) there is nothing in this area available at or under(haha as if) the new threshold.
I see what the government are trying to do but as he also explained, a lot of the apartments out there now are owned by people who bought during the boom and they cant afford to drop it as their mortgage is generally up around those prices. So it's a huge ball of ****e and isn't going to change anything effectively at all.

pejay

Would in not mean then that is is going to present itself with problems, families are going to be decalaring themselves homeless to the county councils,because its impossible to find houses within the new limits.

I did have a good CWO but hes gone now have not met the new one and dont fancy it after the phone call the other day.

stargazer 68

I got my review form etc today - my landlord is going to laugh at me when I show him the letter that my rent is 175 over the limit. But the letter says if I cant negotiate it down to ring the office to discuss - which may include securing alternative accomm (something like that). Maybe if he thinks he will have an empty house for a while he might reduce it - doubt it but worth a go!!

Lugh Ildanach

If your landlord won't reduce the rent, and if your CWO won't accept whatever is on offer, then you should consider taking a case to the PRTB www.prtb.ie

Landlords are not allowed to charge more than the market rate for their rent and the PRTB can impose a lower rent if they are of the opinion that the rent is too high for market conditions!

RollYerOwn

Lugh Ildanach wrote: »

... Landlords are not allowed to charge more than the market rate for their rent and the PRTB can impose a lower rent if they are of the opinion that the rent is too high for market conditions!

But how do you find out what the market rate is for your area? I don't think you can use the social welfare's levels because they appear to be designed to reduce the market rates that currently exist.

If all the searches on all the property web sites show that the rates currently being asked reflect the current market rate? So if this is above the social welfare rate then essentially that leaves people unable to rent a property in that area? And if ALL the areas you look at tell the same story?

Lugh Ildanach

RollYerOwn wrote: »

But how do you find out what the market rate is for your area? I don't think you can use the social welfare's levels because they appear to be designed to reduce the market rates that currently exist.

If all the searches on all the property web sites show that the rates currently being asked reflect the current market rate? So if this is above the social welfare rate then essentially that leaves people unable to rent a property in that area? And if ALL the areas you look at tell the same story?

The only body that has the legal power to determine what the market rate is the PRTB.

The fact that other landlords are charging the same is not conclusive evidence that the market rate is that amount, it could equally be evidence of an effective cartel, or that people simply don't have an alternative and are paying over the odds because they have to.

But even if the PRTB decide that the market rate is being paid, that in itself is something that you could take to your CWO, in asking them to consider paying over the limits.

stargazer 68

Well I have never met my CWO so that should be and interesting call!

Lugh Ildanach

If all the other properties in the area are the same price, you should bring this information to the attention of the CWO too. They have a discretionary power to pay over the limit in some circumstances.

If its a matter of moving to a less desirable area, then that's one thing, but if there is NO accommodation available for the rent limit levels that are set, then what do they expect you to do? I would hope that they will be reasonable and exercise their discretion sensibly, as they often have done in the past!

If they refuse to exercise their discretion, you can appeal and make your case to the Appeals Office.

Likewise if your landlord refuses to reduce the rent, and tries to evict you, then you have rights of appeal to PRTB.