Argi diesel use: who gets done, driver or vehicle owner

Peterbilt

As per title ladies and gents: when Customs nab someone driving illegally on agri diesel who gets to have a day out in court, the driver of said vehicle or the owner of said vehicle?

RickRoll

The driver.

Peterbilt

Even if it's a borrowed vehicle and you've never been anywhere near the fuel tank?


Does anyone know where to find the actual legislation on this?
Is it Customs legislation or Revenue legislation I'm wondering???

-Chris-

You'll probably find the offence is not putting agri diesel in a normal road vehicle, rather the offence is driving on a public road with agri diesel when you're not supposed to.

Same as Motor tax, if you got a rental car with no tax and you got done, you'd be liable for the fine because the offence is driving the car without valid tax, rather than failing to tax the car.

Jimdagym

NCT too.
The local rag in Balbriggan had a story of a women from tallaght who was visiting her friend in Balbriggan but her friend got plastered so tallaght woman took her mates keys and drove her home. Hit a checkpoint and the driver was done for no NCT despite the owner being pissed in the seat next to her. €300 fine AFAIR.

Del2005

No matter what the offence is it's always the operator who gets done.

If you're driving it, it's up to you to ensure that you are legal in every respect.

Chimaera

Del2005 wrote: »

No matter what the offence is it's always the operator who gets done.

If you're driving it, it's up to you to ensure that you are legal in every respect.

Not quite: if you're operating a commercial vehicle over it's design GVM the owner, the consignor and the operator are all liable for fines.

Peterbilt

Okay, thanks for that everyone.

It seems a tad unfair though that someone innocently driving a vehicle for a few hours belonging to someone else gets done. NCT and tax have visable discs you can check. All you can do regarding the diesel in the tank is take the driver at their word that its not agri.

But I do understand the legal aspect to it, namely, its every drivers responsibility to ensure they are driving legally.

Yakuza

Aye, it is a bit harsh. I wonder if there are any mitigating circumstances (as outlined above, a borrowed / rented car or a company vehicle used by many drivers; something that someone couldn't reasonably be expected to have to check themselves)?

Fair enough on the TAX/NCT disks, as you can see them in the window, but how could you be expect to check the tank for agri diesel?

Soarer

As an aside....
the garage near us has a diesel pump put aside for trucks and tractors, with both normal and agri diesel being dispensed through black and red hoses respectively.
Is the onus on the garage to stop me putting the agri diesel into my car, or will they sell it to me irrespective?

Del2005

Chimaera wrote: »

Not quite: if you're operating a commercial vehicle over it's design GVM the owner, the consignor and the operator are all liable for fines.

The driver will also get fined.

Soarer wrote: »

As an aside....
the garage near us has a diesel pump put aside for trucks and tractors, with both normal and agri diesel being dispensed through black and red hoses respectively.
Is the onus on the garage to stop me putting the agri diesel into my car, or will they sell it to me irrespective?

They'll sell you what ever you want to buy. It's not their job to police who uses it, which is the problem!

sh1tstirrer

I know someone that sold a car and never got a change of ownership form. The buyer drove the car without tax and the gardai arrived at owners door and fined him, the driver got off.

irisheddie85

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

I know someone that sold a car and never got a change of ownership form. The buyer drove the car without tax and the gardai arrived at owners door and fined him, the driver got off.

When you sell a car you are supposed to fill in the part of the car log book cert and send it off yourself. so it was the previous owners own fault for not doing what he was supposed to do. If the car was stopped at a checkpoint the driver is at fault, if its just seen in public with no tax the only person that can be got is the registered owner

sh1tstirrer

irisheddie85 wrote: »

When you sell a car you are supposed to fill in the part of the car log book cert and send it off yourself. so it was the previous owners own fault for not doing what he was supposed to do. If the car was stopped at a checkpoint the driver is at fault, if its just seen in public with no tax the only person that can be got is the registered owner

Where did I say that the previous owner was not at fault?

irisheddie85

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

Where did I say that the previous owner was not at fault?

Sorry you didn't I took you up wrong on first reading