irish players going abroad for peanuts

celtictiger32

just wondering what peoples thoughts are on some of the irish lads going across the water for little or nothing. karl sheppard is probably the latest line of 'robberies'. nothing against the players themselves fair play to them but surely with the success some of the ex LOI lads are having our clubs could demand a higher price, i know aswell the clubs dont want to stand in players way of progression. just annoys me to see this happening...........

~Rebel~

celtictiger32 wrote: »

just wondering what peoples thoughts are on some of the irish lads going across the water for little or nothing. karl sheppard is probably the latest line of 'robberies'. nothing against the players themselves fair play to them but surely with the success some of the ex LOI lads are having our clubs could demand a higher price, i know aswell the clubs dont want to stand in players way of progression. just annoys me to see this happening...........

It is terrible, but hard to avoid with so many clubs only able to offer short term contracts. There's no real bargaining power on the side of the Irish clubs. If the player wants to go, all the power lies with the buyer.

gosplan

There was an article on F365 the other day about the value in the LOI.

Realisticaly there's nothing the clubs can do, they have to accept certain offers and you can't really expect a buying club to pay more than is necessary to secure the deal.

Could the LOI insist on some kind of mandatroy sell on clause so say Reading can buy Kevin Doyle for 80K but have to pay like 10% of any sell on over a particular value - which would have been a fairer 800K in this case.

oldyouth

The problem is the short term contracts offered in LOI football. Clubs mostly offer only annual contracts, given the perilous nature of the domestic game. As a consequence, they're not in a position to insist on sell-on clauses.

From a players point of view, no LOI club can give you security of employment and being out of contract makes them an attractive proposition for UK clubs. They're not going to be happy inserting clauses that might make a club think twice about signing them.

stovelid

The problem is that we all know that the players are useless pub footballers when here but immediately become excellent footballers (and the proud property and a source of expertise) of fans of the national team) when they undertake the short journey across the Irish sea.

So putting a financial assessment on such ielusive and downright magical playing ability is hard.

BOHtox

celtictiger32 wrote: »

just wondering what peoples thoughts are on some of the irish lads going across the water for little or nothing. karl sheppard is probably the latest line of 'robberies'. nothing against the players themselves fair play to them but surely with the success some of the ex LOI lads are having our clubs could demand a higher price, i know aswell the clubs dont want to stand in players way of progression. just annoys me to see this happening...........

Sheppard was out of contract, one would hardly expect a fee there.

SantryRed

BOHtox wrote: »

Sheppard was out of contract, one would hardly expect a fee there.

And he has already been in England since the age of 15.

stovelid

Wasn't a chance Shep was going to sign longer than a year for us because he knew he was good enough to go to England. If we had not have given him the contract he wanted, another club here would and he arguably saved us the league with a run of goals in the league when Twigg was out.

LOI clubs here have to strike the delicate balance between getting lumbered with expensive overlong contracts for players that don't work out and making players that know they'll get a move sign up for more than a year.

invinciblePRSTV

gosplan wrote: »

There was an article on F365 the other day about the value in the LOI.

Realisticaly there's nothing the clubs can do, they have to accept certain offers and you can't really expect a buying club to pay more than is necessary to secure the deal.

Could the LOI insist on some kind of mandatroy sell on clause so say Reading can buy Kevin Doyle for 80K but have to pay like 10% of any sell on over a particular value - which would have been a fairer 800K in this case.

Afair City did negotiate a sell on clause in the Doyle transfer which they cashed in on while Doyler was still at Reading when they were in the she-it a few years back under old (bad) ownership.

They could do this i presume because back then in those crazy times Dolan's CCFC were handing out multi-year full time contracts to signings so had a bit of leverage when it came to selling players to UK teams.

Different times these days of course.

legendary.xix

If a LoI club had a striker who was banging in the goals in the Champions or Europa Leagues, and the player was on a 3 or 4 year contract, not a 42 week one, possibly then players might move for bigger money.
I thought Derry got a fair price for McClean considering the lad still had a lot to prove. His value has probably soared now but in fairness the lad himself has kicked on. I hope for Derry's sake though that they did agree a percentage of future transfer fees.

AgileMyth

legendary.xix wrote: »

If a LoI club had a striker who was banging in the goals in the Champions or Europa Leagues, and the player was on a 3 or 4 year contract, not a 42 week one, possibly then players might move for bigger money.
I thought Derry got a fair price for McClean considering the lad still had a lot to prove. His value has probably soared now but in fairness the lad himself has kicked on. I hope for Derry's sake though that they did agree a percentage of future transfer fees.

But players in league one and the Scottish league are commanding higher figures and obviously have a lot to prove too.

McClean hasn't kicked on, hes just continued playing well.

GLaDOS

It's a problem caused by the state of finances in the league. Clubs can't afford to commit to long term contracts, limiting the amount of money they can demand for a player. This of course limits the financial progress of a club as they are losing prised assets for much less than their worth (or for nothing), meaning the whole thing goes full circle.

losthorizon

legendary.xix wrote: »

If a LoI club had a striker who was banging in the goals in the Champions or Europa Leagues, and the player was on a 3 or 4 year contract, not a 42 week one, possibly then players might move for bigger money.
I thought Derry got a fair price for McClean considering the lad still had a lot to prove. His value has probably soared now but in fairness the lad himself has kicked on. I hope for Derry's sake though that they did agree a percentage of future transfer fees.

The point is though that many premiership clubs in the past paid peanuts for LOI players but paid much higher transfer fees for players from teams like Kilmarnock etc whose players werent banging in the goals in Europe either. A glance at UEFAs Co-efficiency table will show you that LOI clubs have a much better record in Europe than any club in Scotland outside of the top two. The same goes for players bought from other smaller nations many of whom would have been beaten by LOI teams in Europe. Its only very recently that the 42 week contract has come into being before that it used to be multi year.

To my mind its the same old adage of Irish clubs tipping the hat and not "standing in a players way". Feck that - the club and the fans come first. IF you have to sell a player be hard in the negotiations, be prepared to say no and get as much money as you can.

SantryRed

losthorizon wrote: »

To my mind its the same old adage of Irish clubs tipping the hat and not "standing in a players way". Feck that - the club and the fans come first. IF you have to sell a player be hard in the negotiations, be prepared to say no and get as much money as you can.

It's the length of contract which is the problem. Why refuse 400k for a player who will go for nothing in 12/18 months times?

Rhys Essien

It is $hit how the English clubs offer buttons and therefore a sell on clause should be put on all players of at least 10%.
Example being the sale of Doyle to Wolves and Long to WBA for a combined £13 million meaning Cork City should have got at least £1.3 mil but only got around £100,000 to cancel the 10% sell on for Doyle.Reading offered this when Cork City were in trouble.

Rhys Essien

legendary.xix wrote: »

If a LoI club had a striker who was banging in the goals in the Champions or Europa Leagues, and the player was on a 3 or 4 year contract, not a 42 week one, possibly then players might move for bigger money.
I thought Derry got a fair price for McClean considering the lad still had a lot to prove. His value has probably soared now but in fairness the lad himself has kicked on. I hope for Derry's sake though that they did agree a percentage of future transfer fees.

Derry got 350k for him because there was a dozen and one clubs after him.

CiaranC

losthorizon wrote: »

To my mind its the same old adage of Irish clubs tipping the hat and not "standing in a players way". Feck that - the club and the fans come first. IF you have to sell a player be hard in the negotiations, be prepared to say no and get as much money as you can.

Im not sure you have grasped it. We cannot afford to give players the contracts which would put ourselves in a strong bargaining position when it comes to them going to England. To do so would jeopardise the future of our clubs.

As ever, it comes back to gates. If Irish fans supported their own clubs in greater numbers, we would have a more solid financial basis and the ability to contract our youth long-term, with a view to selling to the bigger leagues and developing the game here that way. But people are just not interested.

Ferris_Bueller

How long do people think it will be before the multi-year contracts will be offered to players? I'm fairly sure Rovers had one or two down on deals longer than a year long, Finn and Rice maybe? Could be imagining it though I'm sure a Rovers fan could correct me if wrong. It has gotten a lot of clubs into trouble in the past, but Rovers seem to be getting their financial house in order, I wonder in 2 or 3 years time will they be able to offer their starting team multiple year contracts?

Raskolnikov

stovelid wrote: »

Wasn't a chance Shep was going to sign longer than a year for us because he knew he was good enough to go to England.

That's exactly correct. I worked with a guy who used to play with Cork City who refused to sign a contract as he hoped to make it in England. I would say Rovers would have had no problem offering Sheppard a 3 year contract. The problem is that Sheppard is obviously a talented young player who could make it abroad. What is the point in him tying himself down on a long-term contract earning peanuts, with very little prospect of the wages going up significantly? The short-term contract obviously suited him better as it meant any potential suitors wouldn't have to pay a fee, making him a more attractive target.

CiaranC

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

I wonder in 2 or 3 years time will they be able to offer their starting team multiple year contracts?

No. Not unless the fundamentals (i.e. gates) rise significantly. The club will continue to offer a few promising players a year 2 year deals in the hope we can sell them on, ala Enda Stevens.

oldyouth

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Example being the sale of Doyle to Wolves and Long to WBA for a combined £13 million meaning Cork City should have got at least £1.3 mil but only got around £100,000 to cancel the 10% sell on for Doyle.Reading offered this when Cork City were in trouble.

When Doyle moved to Wolves, Mick Wallace was his advisor and managed to negotiate Wolves bringing their 1st team to Ferrycarrig Park as part of the deal. That friendly funded the Youths for a year and a bit. It was also a bit of a thank you from Kevin to Mick for his initial development.

Orando Broom

It is unfortunate that the LOI teams lose the players so cheap but in fairness the type of contract these guys are on menas they will be sold cheap. There are no players in the LOI with cast iron long term contracts. Look how quickly the good players move to the successful clubs within the league. Just because it's an Premier League team that is coming in for a player should not mena they have to pay mega money. They are not charities.

Personally I think if the LOI became a recognised feeder for the Premier league it would be amazing for the standard of football. You'd have young fellas that rather than risk all on moving to England could stay as part-timers in ireland continue thier education and then get picked up. Fans would get the opportunity to perhaps have seen some genuinely world class players line out for thie rlocal club as opposed to them going cross channel in thier early teens.

I would like to see LOI teams try and tie in with Universitites giving scholarships to players and keep them playing in Ireland un til thier 20's.

Also if the leauge stepped up in quality (I'm thinking regular representation in european football) they could look to take young academy players on loan from English clubs with the opportunity to give them European experience.

Simple market economics will always dictate that the LOI will struggle for bums on seats. Irish people are used to supporting the best of the best (following GAA means you are seeing the elite play constantly). this translates into the expectations for all other sports. Look at how well supported the Heineken Cup is because the teams involved are comprised of the elite players. The LOI is banjaxed because all our elite players are abroad.

s8n

stovelid wrote: »

The problem is that we all know that the players are useless pub footballers when here but immediately become excellent footballers (and the proud property and a source of expertise) of fans of the national team) when they undertake the short journey across the Irish sea.

So putting a financial assessment on such ielusive and downright magical playing ability is hard.

***YAWN***

stovelid

s8n wrote: »

***YAWN***

Tired from the mental effort of logging in?

Raskolnikov

Orando Broom wrote: »

It is unfortunate that the LOI teams lose the players so cheap but in fairness the type of contract these guys are on menas they will be sold cheap. There are no players in the LOI with cast iron long term contracts.

It's the size of wages, and not contract length that's relevant here. The highest earner at Rovers (and probably the league) is Gary Twigg, who is on €1,000 a week, or so I believe. No talented young player with any kind of ambition is going to tie himself down to earn peanuts, when there is a possibility he can go play in the Championship and earn £5,000 a week. Much better for the career prospects of a player to just sign the one year contract, meaning if he performs, he can move on a free and secure a better deal in England.

BOHtox

The problem is barstoolers. Plain and simple!!!
If clubs have more money they could offer more money and longer contracts. The league would be so much better if well supported. Better players, betters stadia, better success in Europe!!!

DoctorGonzo08

BOHtox wrote: »

The problem is barstoolers. Plain and simple!!!
If clubs have more money they could offer more money and longer contracts. The league would be so much better if well supported. Better players, betters stadia, better success in Europe!!!

Problem isn't barstoolers though. There is a reason the masses are not flowing into the grounds. Where is the incentive? The standard, like it or not is very poor, especially in the First Division. The ticket prices are over priced, plain and simple.

You can't just up and compete with top english leagues all of a sudden. The clubs solely look at the gate and squeeze fans there. Where have they tried alternative means to get income? Merchandise? Kit sponsorship? etc etc? No. Clubs expect a quick turnover and seek only a profit. With this approach how do you expect teams to hold onto players?

I was over at an Ice Hockey game at the weekend in Milton Keynes. £12 to see the game. Students £8, Kids £5. Cheap programme and fanzine available on the door. Raffle draws during the game. Can buy Jersey, hats, scarves, hoodies etc. Home, Away and Warm up kit sponsorship available, right down to the sock for £5. What does the sponsor get? A minimum of a signed photo and get to meet the player you sponsored. All very simple things. Result? Stadium 75% full. You fill seats. Their website is updated frequently. Advertised in local papers.

If fans spent less time giving out about why nobody comes and insist on better from their club, they will se improvement. You can't expect people to come and watch rubbish and be over charged for the pleasure. Reduce the prices and raise awarness and build from there.

Raskolnikov

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

I was over at an Ice Hockey game at the weekend in Milton Keynes. £12 to see the game. Students £8, Kids £5. Cheap programme and fanzine available on the door. Raffle draws during the game. Can buy Jersey, hats, scarves, hoodies etc. Home, Away and Warm up kit sponsorship available, right down to the sock for £5. What does the sponsor get? A minimum of a signed photo and get to meet the player you sponsored. All very simple things. Result? Stadium 75% full. You fill seats. Their website is updated frequently. Advertised in local papers.

Eh, that describes the Shamrock Rovers setup almost to a tee, even the ticket prices are almost identical when you convert the currency.

Prices are as follows:
Adults, unreserved seating - €15
Students & Senior Citizens - €10
Children (Under 14 years) - €7

gustavo

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Problem isn't barstoolers though. There is a reason the masses are not flowing into the grounds. Where is the incentive? The standard, like it or not is very poor, especially in the First Division. The ticket prices are over priced, plain and simple.

You can't just up and compete with top english leagues all of a sudden. The clubs solely look at the gate and squeeze fans there. Where have they tried alternative means to get income? Merchandise? Kit sponsorship? etc etc? No. Clubs expect a quick turnover and seek only a profit. With this approach how do you expect teams to hold onto players?

I was over at an Ice Hockey game at the weekend in Milton Keynes. £12 to see the game. Students £8, Kids £5. Cheap programme and fanzine available on the door. Raffle draws during the game. Can buy Jersey, hats, scarves, hoodies etc. Home, Away and Warm up kit sponsorship available, right down to the sock for £5. What does the sponsor get? A minimum of a signed photo and get to meet the player you sponsored. All very simple things. Result? Stadium 75% full. You fill seats. Their website is updated frequently. Advertised in local papers.
.

Sounds a lot like my trips to the Showgrounds

The standard is not "very poor" I've seen some fantastic games last season which thorougly merited my admission fee.

GLaDOS

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Eh, that describes the Shamrock Rovers setup almost to a tee, even the ticket prices are almost identical when you convert the currency.

Prices are as follows:
Adults, unreserved seating - €15
Students & Senior Citizens - €10
Children (Under 14 years) - €7

Most clubs charge something similar to that I find

Orando Broom

I think the LOI prices are fair enough. I siad it earleir and I'll say it again, the Irish public are used to seeing the elite athletes compete. GAa is the root of this, access to watching the best in that game have left the Irish as a nation of event junkies. We see no harm (in GAA) of only say 7,000 dubs in Parnell for a league game and then 50k in Croker come June. That is replicated across the country. Rugby has great corwds for the provincial teams because they are the elite. The LOI is simply not the elite level and it will never attract the 'floating voter'. I would also contened that there is a small bit of snobbery attached to the LOI. I don't feel it is viewed favourably by the 'middle class'. How many LOI games did our previous president attend?

I think the standard of player is not bad but I think the managers are sometimes guilty of setting the teams up not to lose. This can lead to some dour games. This does not help when the game is being televised.

DoctorGonzo08

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Eh, that describes the Shamrock Rovers setup almost to a tee, even the ticket prices are almost identical when you convert the currency.

Prices are as follows:
Adults, unreserved seating - €15
Students & Senior Citizens - €10
Children (Under 14 years) - €7

And is it any surprise that it is Rovers that are turning ouot the success? But what other clubs are turning that out?

Taking my team, longford for example. Last season vs Shelbourne ticket price was 20 to get into Tolka park. 0-0. Don't think there was anymore than three consecutive successful passes. An absolute dire game of football. Not too long after that, I was at the City Birmingahm game at Eastlands. £14 for the ticket. Take a look at the Town website, it is very poorly put together and rarely updated. Where can you buy merchandice? When they were promoted to the Premiership there was a buzz about Longford. Raffles, kits, hoodies, half time raffles, everything you could think of. Obviously it has gotten old now. There are still the loyal fans who turn out to every game, but you have lost the numbers who used to turn out, and I for one, am not going to blame them.

Clubs shouldn't just expect support and finance from the fans because they turn up. The clubs should be doing something to get the fans in.

Orando Broom

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

And is it any surprise that it is Rovers that are turning ouot the success? But what other clubs are turning that out?

Taking my team, longford for example. Last season vs Shelbourne ticket price was 20 to get into Tolka park. 0-0. Don't think there was anymore than three consecutive successful passes. An absolute dire game of football. Not too long after that, I was at the City Birmingahm game at Eastlands. £14 for the ticket. Take a look at the Town website, it is very poorly put together and rarely updated. Where can you buy merchandice? When they were promoted to the Premiership there was a buzz about Longford. Raffles, kits, hoodies, half time raffles, everything you could think of. Obviously it has gotten old now. There are still the loyal fans who turn out to every game, but you have lost the numbers who used to turn out, and I for one, am not going to blame them.

Clubs shouldn't just expect support and finance from the fans because they turn up. The clubs should be doing something to get the fans in.

Without being chrulish, if you have good ideas about marketing Longford Town it is incumbent on you to get involved.

I am not sure you realise how hard it is for a club to produce merchandise. There is a risk of these ventures not getting the requisite support and costing the club more.

I am not saying all LOI clubs are beacons of administratative perfection but you can't just apply the Shamrock Rovers model to every club and expect them to replicate the success. Rovers are lucky to have a soccer centric town where they play their home games and thus a good population to tap into.

I am involved in a GAa club myself at administrative level and I can tell you, sponsorshiop in non-existant there are some great ideas for increasing particupation of the non-playing community but many have to be ixnayed simply because they run the risk of losing money if buy-in is not up to the required level.

Seriously if you have any cost effective ideas for getting people to participate in a club as non-playing members (mainly to come out and support) I'd love to hear them.

stovelid

If you take the LOI Premier Division as an example, we produce a decent standard of football (and a comparably OK ranking) in relation to the population of our country.

In addition, the price of most game equates to not much more than a cinema ticket or 3-4 pints. Furthermore, taking Rovers as an example, you can avail of family season tickets that seriously reduce the price.

There is actually a funny list to be compiled one day of the incredible mental gymnastics that football "fanantics" in this country perform to convince themselves not to go to local football games.

The exhortation to attract fans is bollocks: for most clubs, advertising and PR costs money. Money that is not forthcoming at the turnstiles, week-in and week-out.

At rhe end of the day, without the hardy souls that got behind your Newton Heaths, a Manchester Unted will not fall full-formed into your lap.

DoctorGonzo08

Orando Broom wrote: »

Without being chrulish, if you have good ideas about marketing Longford Town it is incumbent on you to get involved.

I am not sure you realise how hard it is for a club to produce merchandise. There is a risk of these ventures not getting the requisite support and costing the club more.

I am not saying all LOI clubs are beacons of administratative perfection but you can't just apply the Shamrock Rovers model to every club and expect them to replicate the success. Rovers are lucky to have a soccer centric town where they play their home games and thus a good population to tap into.

I am involved in a GAa club myself at administrative level and I can tell you, sponsorshiop in non-existant there are some great ideas for increasing particupation of the non-playing community but many have to be ixnayed simply because they run the risk of losing money if buy-in is not up to the required level.

Seriously if you have any cost effective ideas for getting people to participate in a club as non-playing members (mainly to come out and support) I'd love to hear them.

I know the Rovers model is a slight exception, but I think there are several ways to improve a club without this. Problem is suggestions always come with negative response. I find it frustrating to work with people whose only input is to find problems, never solutions.

I know I am being vague in my comments here, but I am using my experience with different fundraisers I have been involved with, and non profit organisations. All of which showed over time new ideas prove profitable. As long as you don't expect instant turnover.

For example, I know the cost of producing merchandice is expensive. However if you have a facility available on a pre-order basis you can make money on it. Much better than having no facility at all. Simple things like free programme with ticket is an incentive. Use of social media, regular updating of website.

Have any of the clubs set up, or approached boards to set up a club forum?

BOHtox

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

And is it any surprise that it is Rovers that are turning ouot the success? But what other clubs are turning that out?

Taking my team, longford for example. Last season vs Shelbourne ticket price was 20 to get into Tolka park. 0-0. Don't think there was anymore than three consecutive successful passes. An absolute dire game of football. Not too long after that, I was at the City Birmingahm game at Eastlands. £14 for the ticket. Take a look at the Town website, it is very poorly put together and rarely updated. Where can you buy merchandice? When they were promoted to the Premiership there was a buzz about Longford. Raffles, kits, hoodies, half time raffles, everything you could think of. Obviously it has gotten old now. There are still the loyal fans who turn out to every game, but you have lost the numbers who used to turn out, and I for one, am not going to blame them.

Clubs shouldn't just expect support and finance from the fans because they turn up. The clubs should be doing something to get the fans in.

I'm pretty sure no team charges €20 a game anymore. If so that's ludacris.

The going rate is:
Adult: 15
Student: 10
Under 12,14,16: 5/7

That'd probably be the dearest too. I know into the terrace in Drogheda it's only a tenner. I know it's the same in other grounds

People will always find reasons not to go to matches.
Now it's the price, the prices have went down and will probably go down more, next it'll be the football (despite several players with Premiership ability playing in the league every year), then it'll be they don't like the colour of the seats.

Irish people just don't seem to like football, instead they like gloryhunting. Irish people need a change to their mentality if the LOI is going to work at a full-time basis.

CiaranC

stovelid wrote: »

There is actually a funny list to be compiled one day of the incredible mental gymnastics that football "fanantics" in this country perform to convince themselves not to go to local football games.

Lets have a go, I can think of 17 off the top of my head!

Barstoolers can just repost this and tick the relevant boxes everytime they find themselves trapped in a LOI thread

[ ] There is no team close enough to where Im from, so I support one even further away
[ ] Ticket prices are too high, even though a season ticket for my local club is half the price of a single trip to England
[ ] I support my British team because they have Irish roots, this means I cannot support a "rival" Irish team
[ ] The standard is not high enough, even though LOI has exported a dozen starting EPL players over the last few years, and has just had a team in the Europa League
[ ] LOI fans are rude and take the piss on internet forums, im pretty sure this doesnt happen in football grounds
[ ] I follow GAA for the local connection instead, although I dont go to their matches either unless they get to the semi final of the All-Ireland
[ ] The facilities are not up to standard, even though they are comparable to the facilities in England in the 70s when I started supporting my team, not that I would know
[ ] Although I cannot name three streets in the city my team is from, I pay for a Replica Shirt and Sky Sports every year so I am a real "manc/scouser"
[ ] Too many working class people (e.g. "scumbags to the average boards poster) go to LOI matches, even though up till 15 years ago football in England was almost exclusively working class
[ ] LOI clubs do not advertise enough to me, so I watch Brazilian football on TV instead
[ ] The crowds at LOI matches arent big enough, so me and all my mates dont attend LOI matches
[ ] I am from Greystones, I could never support Bray Wanderers (This one was posted on here) because they are a different parish
[ ] I am already too involved in GAA to have the time (e.g. drinking in the clubhouse watching Man United and quaffing pints of Bulmers with ice)
[ ] The finances in the LOI are an embarrassment, with clubs constantly going under, so I contribute no money to it
[ ] The clubs are not ambitious enough, Ill support them if they make it to the Champions League group stages
[ ] The clubs are too ambitious, Ill support them if they adopt a grassroots sustainable model and stop trying to qualify for the Champions League group stages
[ ] There are not enough live LOI matches on TV, so I dont go to any live games

dfx-

CiaranC wrote: »

No. Not unless the fundamentals (i.e. gates) rise significantly. The club will continue to offer a few promising players a year 2 year deals in the hope we can sell them on, ala Enda Stevens.

The two year deal for McCormack might pay off next Winter..

Kilduff and Finn got them last year..

Big Al only came signed again for Rovers if a stipulation that he could go if someone across the water came in for him, then St. Johnstone came in...

BOHtox

CiaranC wrote: »

Lets have a go, I can think of 17 off the top of my head!

Barstoolers can just repost this and tick the relevant boxes everytime they find themselves trapped in a LOI thread

[ ] There is no team close enough to where Im from, so I support one even further away
[ ] Ticket prices are too high, even though a season ticket for my local club is half the price of a single trip to England
[ ] I support my British team because they have Irish roots, this means I cannot support a "rival" Irish team
[ ] The standard is not high enough, even though LOI has exported a dozen starting EPL players over the last few years, and has just had a team in the Europa League
[ ] LOI fans are rude and take the piss on internet forums, im pretty sure this doesnt happen in football grounds
[ ] I follow GAA for the local connection instead, although I dont go to their matches either unless they get to the semi final of the All-Ireland
[ ] The facilities are not up to standard, even though they are comparable to the facilities in England in the 70s when I started supporting my team, not that I would know
[ ] Although I cannot name three streets in the city my team is from, I pay for a Replica Shirt and Sky Sports every year so I am a real "manc/scouser"
[ ] Too many working class people (e.g. "scumbags to the average boards poster) go to LOI matches, even though up till 15 years ago football in England was almost exclusively working class
[ ] LOI clubs do not advertise enough to me, so I watch Brazilian football on TV instead
[ ] The crowds at LOI matches arent big enough, so me and all my mates dont attend LOI matches
[ ] I am from Greystones, I could never support Bray Wanderers (This one was posted on here) because they are a different parish
[ ] I am already too involved in GAA to have the time (e.g. drinking in the clubhouse watching Man United and quaffing pints of Bulmers with ice)
[ ] The finances in the LOI are an embarrassment, with clubs constantly going under, so I contribute no money to it
[ ] The clubs are not ambitious enough, Ill support them if they make it to the Champions League group stages
[ ] The clubs are too ambitious, Ill support them if they adopt a grassroots sustainable model and stop trying to qualify for the Champions League group stages
[ ] There are not enough live LOI matches on TV, so I dont go to any live games

A guy also posted
[paraphrase]
" I'm from just outside of Tallaght. Rovers would be my nearest team. But I'd regard them as a Tallaght team. So why would I stop supporting Liverpool to support them"
[/paraphrase]

I'll give barstoolers one thing, they can come up with some amount to shít to try justify not going to LOI games.

Witchie

Our ticket prices last year were €10 for an adult and will only go up to €12 when we are in the Premier. Also we had the cheapest beer in town and the best food (Mondogs) so I cant understand why more didnt want to come out to Gortakeegan.

Cant wait for this season to see the increase in interest as there is a real buzz in the town.

As for players going across the water when we sold 2 of our players on in last few years we made sure there were sell on clauses and even ones for how many games they play and when they made the Senior Rep of Irl team. It can be done without being a rip off. When I look at Aaron McCarey signing for Wolves at 18 I am very proud of him and glad he is over there.

Omackeral

Witchie wrote: »

Our ticket prices last year were €10 for an adult and will only go up to €12 when we are in the Premier. Also we had the cheapest beer in town and the best food (Mondogs) so I cant understand why more didnt want to come out to Gortakeegan.

Cant wait for this season to see the increase in interest as there is a real buzz in the town.

As for players going across the water when we sold 2 of our players on in last few years we made sure there were sell on clauses and even ones for how many games they play and when they made the Senior Rep of Irl team. It can be done without being a rip off. When I look at Aaron McCarey signing for Wolves at 18 I am very proud of him and glad he is over there.

Please explain what a Mondog is. The author in Just Follow the Floodlights was saying they are amazing!

Witchie

Omackeral wrote: »

Please explain what a Mondog is. The author in Just Follow the Floodlights was saying they are amazing!

Its our Hotdog. Being a veggie I have never had one but most people seem to love them. Sure come and taste one this year!

Zebra3

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Taking my team, longford for example. Last season vs Shelbourne ticket price was 20 to get into Tolka park

Liar. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

It's 15€ max into Tolka for a Reds game.

A whole host of posters on here who follow other sides will back that up.

Father Damo

stovelid wrote: »

The problem is that we all know that the players are useless pub footballers when here but immediately become excellent footballers (and the proud property and a source of expertise) of fans of the national team) when they undertake the short journey across the Irish sea.

.

Here we go....


The LOI is a feeder league.

So to, these days, is the Eredivise. So is Ligue 1 to a great extent. It is a fact of life that every league bar the big 3 is a feeder league, and yes, any Ireland fan with half a brain quite rightly doesnt want players on the national side until they have had a few months mixing it up with the best league players in Europe to test their worth.

BOHtox wrote: »

The problem is barstoolers. Plain and simple!!!

Even when it was the bears I knews it was dem barstoolers!

If clubs have more money they could offer more money and longer contracts. The league would be so much better if well supported. Better players, betters stadia, better success in Europe!!!

There are a billion and 21 reasons football never recovered from its 1970s decline in Ireland, and it is nothing to do with sky sports.

oldyouth

Zebra3 wrote: »

Liar. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

It's 15€ max into Tolka for a Reds game.

A whole host of posters on here who follow other sides will back that up.

I'll back that up, along with it being €10 for a student. The average LOI 1st division ticket price is €10 adult, €5 student and various free admission schemes for under 12s. Shels were always too dear for the division.

DoctorGonzo08

Zebra3 wrote: »

Liar. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

It's 15€ max into Tolka for a Reds game.

A whole host of posters on here who follow other sides will back that up.

Well there must have been big windows because that was what I was charged.

In relation to the other comments on here, then what is your solution? People should just turn out and fork over money. Full stop. The club should in no way do anything to attract people?

Plain and simple this is a load of BS. I'm quite sick of people looking for handouts. It's a business, run it properly! People have a right to spend whatever money they have however they wish.

stovelid

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Plain and simple this is a load of BS. I'm quite sick of people looking for handouts. It's a business, run it properly! People have a right to spend whatever money they have however they wish.

I must confess to getting watery-eyed when I see the passion and romance of football is still alive.

DoctorGonzo08

stovelid wrote: »

I must confess to getting watery-eyed when I see the passion and romance of football is still alive.

Bit of a circular argument here. The issue in the thread is money for clubs. Clubs need money from fans. They are offering a service in exchange for money. This is basic business. I go to the games, I give my money, and I have given loads of my time for my club. But for me to cry that other people won't come too is wrong IMO. I don't see any effort being made in attracting fans. I don't think this is unreasonable in any way.

celtictiger32

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Problem isn't barstoolers though. There is a reason the masses are not flowing into the grounds. Where is the incentive? The standard, like it or not is very poor, especially in the First Division. The ticket prices are over priced, plain and simple.

You can't just up and compete with top english leagues all of a sudden. The clubs solely look at the gate and squeeze fans there. Where have they tried alternative means to get income? Merchandise? Kit sponsorship? etc etc? No. Clubs expect a quick turnover and seek only a profit. With this approach how do you expect teams to hold onto players?.

i totally disagree the standard is not 'very poor' as you put it, ive often come out of great games over the last few seasons while at the same time have seen or overheard people saying that was a ****e game on sun on skysports(epl) look how many LOI players who are now regular epl players, i do however agree that the admission fees are too high.

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Well there must have been big windows because that was what I was charged..

well they must have read some of your comments on here because every time ive been in tolka its been e15 as the op said. the only exception may have been those ****ty promotional games v the man utd's or liverpools

DoctorGonzo08

celtictiger32 wrote: »

i totally disagree the standard is not 'very poor' as you put it, ive often come out of great games over the last few seasons while at the same time have seen or overheard people saying that was a ****e game on sun on skysports(epl) look how many LOI players who are now regular epl players, i do however agree that the admission fees are too high.

I'm not brandishing every game as rubbish. I'm saying the average standard, especially in the First Division is very poor. If anyone wants to look back over my comments you will see I have rated LOI better than the SPL, but I said the First Division is very poor.

It will be an endless argument comparing one to another. For instance I thought the Town Rovers game which we won 2-0 at home a couple of years ago was one of the best experiences I have had at a live football match. And in the same vein I was in Eastlands last year to watch one of the worst that I have seen in City v Utd 0-0 with Zabaleta's shot being the only chance in the game.

However on average, the Premier League games, and Championship games I have been to are of a much better standard overall than the LOI.

celtictiger32

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

I'm not brandishing every game as rubbish. I'm saying the average standard, especially in the First Division is very poor. If anyone wants to look back over my comments you will see I have rated LOI better than the SPL, but I said the First Division is very poor.

It will be an endless argument comparing one to another. For instance I thought the Town Rovers game which we won 2-0 at home a couple of years ago was one of the best experiences I have had at a live football match. And in the same vein I was in Eastlands last year to watch one of the worst that I have seen in City v Utd 0-0 with Zabaleta's shot being the only chance in the game.

However on average, the Premier League games, and Championship games I have been to are of a much better standard overall than the LOI.

put any two LOI teams in old trafford in front of 60,000 fans and it would look a lot better.. im not saying we're on a par with the epl or anywhere near it but when you glam a game up of course it will look more attractive to the average punter