RTE TWO HD DOG MISSING

Strawberry HillBilly

Noticed this morning that HD dog was not present during transmission of TRTE program - A gUrls wUrld - is this a change of policy where dog is only present when transmitting in real HD ?

glimmerman123

Strawberry HillBilly wrote: »

Noticed this morning that HD dog was not present during transmission of TRTE program - A gUrls wUrld - is this a change of policy where dog is only present when transmitting in real HD ?

No TRTE dog or RTE2 dog on Saorview or Sky at all now. Don't know what's going on there.

Mike 1972

Sense prevailing at last ?

watty

Get rid of the DOGs
digital boxes TELL you what channel it is.
If they marked on EPG (inc now/next) a click on remote would tell if upscalled or real HD source.

mcwhirter

watty wrote: »

Get rid of the DOGs
digital boxes TELL you what channel it is.
If they marked on EPG (inc now/next) a click on remote would tell if upscalled or real HD source.

My tv states HD on status even if not full HD

The Cush

RTÉ Two HD dog back as before.

watty

mcwhirter wrote: »

My tv states HD on status even if not full HD

RTE 2 is ALWAYS transmitting a real HD signal. That's why they need to put into the EPG now/next and full EPG, as start of description after Program Title (HD) if it's an HD source. This is easy and simple and works on EVERY set-box and TV that can tune RTE2 HD, even if not Saorview certified.

It's an insult to intelligence of human race to have DOGs on other than Analogue Cable or Analogue Satellite.

You'll notice that no-one has the nerve to "Cheek" the Advertisers by doing it during Adverts. It's one of the most obnoxious practices of TV today. The 2nd most obnoxious is the extra companding to raise average loudness of adverts. It's simple they should reduce sound level by 6dB during adverts.

The current situation of DOGs and advert average perceived sound level is abusive to the viewer.

If BCI was worth the paper their name is written on they would action this.

Mike 1972

If someone actually needs a DOG or menu flag to tell them that theyre watching HD material (somewhat akin to those "In colour" captions on early 1970's programming) then it would seem rather pointless for such people to have HD at all

watty wrote: »

RTE 2 is ALWAYS transmitting a real HD signal

<Nit picking in progress>Au Contraire

RTE 2 are MAINLY transmitting "upscaled" SD content and will continue doing so for the forseeable future. </Nit picked>

watty

It really is a real HD Signal, always, hence shows as HD on status. That isn't the same thing as HD content.

This is precisely why they need to indicate real HD Source on the Now/Next.

You picked the wrong nit.


Um.. If you downscale HD, upscale to HD later (on transmission or very good TV) then the quality is much higher than analogue SD camera or 720x576 SD source transmitted at SD of 544 x 576.

Also if your TV is much smaller than 42" in an average room, the difference is harder to see.

I argue we are entitled to know in the EPGs (full 7 detail and also the now/next summary), should indicate HD.

If someone actually needs a DOG or menu flag to tell them that theyre watching HD material (somewhat akin to those "In colour" captions on early 1970's programming) then it would seem rather pointless for such people to have HD at all

True within limits.

NewHillel

watty wrote: »

It's an insult to intelligence of human race to have DOGs on other than Analogue Cable or Analogue Satellite.

I suspect that it is to allow the source of pirate copyright material be checked.

That's not to say that I have any tim for them ...

watty

No, it's not. It's pure egotistical branding. They would like you to think it though. Officially they claim viewers would get confused as to what channel they are on.

If you are post-processing you can remove the DOG.

FREETV

They are DOG gone awful and unnecessary as they say. Nobody in their right mind would like dogs on screen, it spoils the viewing and there should be a petition sent to RTE to ask them to get rid of them as soon as possible.

NewHillel

watty wrote: »

If you are post-processing you can remove the DOG.

Didn't know that...

Then again the only video video processing I've done was a DVD rip, just to prove I could. (I've used various tools for audio clean up, all right.)

glimmerman123

If they must have a dog why don't they do what Sky do put the dog up at the beginning of the programme for a few seconds and only when HD content is been shown. That way we only have to look at the eye sore for a few seconds. :mad:

Mr Keek

... They are never gonna get rid of the DOG but they could at least take a leaf from BBC 1 HD 's book and make the DOG more subtle, its nearly invisible unless the back ground is dark.

The RTE DOG is Hugh "RTE TWO HD" wish they would rebrand and just the figure 2, at least it would be an improvement.

swoofer

hah this has been my bugbear for years and was once told it was led by sky but now sky have seen sense and dropped dog for quality programming, there is no qualiity in an idiotic dog. However, I know in RTE they are either so dumb, they never open emails or they are so scared if the ape sky, sky will bring back the dog.

I watch rte occasionally but the best example of how idiotic it is, is when sport is been broadcast, we have RTE in the match clock and across from it, lower down mind you, the rte 2 logo, it looks and is dumb. TG4 had the same but after quite a few emails and pictures they saw sense. Cant be bothered with rte anymore they are untouchable. thanks for bbc and itv as they carry same games as rte.

I think what summed it up for me was the DOG on the Godfather, pathetic, we love our viewers!! not

Strawberry HillBilly

So does anyone know if the lack of dog on Saturday was a screw up or a deliberate change of policy ?

glimmerman123

Strawberry HillBilly wrote: »

So does anyone know if the lack of dog on Saturday was a screw up or a deliberate change of policy ?

It seems any tweaking been done seems to happen on a Saturday so maybe the technical guys were having a bit of fun while the cat's away.

philahern

I'm no fan of DOGs either but has anyone considered it might be a valuable part of their marketing strategy. I have had people look at my TV and go "Oh! I didn't know RTE was in HD!?" and then I proceed to tell them about Saorview.

Perhaps after the switch-off we might see a change in the DOG policy.

Machinehead

I can't see RTÈ loosing the HD dog prior to ASO. I figure it is to be used as part of their marketing strategy for the HD content broadcast. As can be seen on the RTÉ Two now broadcasting in HD thread, the presence & sharpness of the HD Dog seems to be the only way some can establish if the transmission is 1080i or not.

Minstrel27

philahern wrote: »

I'm no fan of DOGs either but has anyone considered it might be a valuable part of their marketing strategy. I have had people look at my TV and go "Oh! I didn't know RTE was in HD!?" and then I proceed to tell them about Saorview.

Perhaps after the switch-off we might see a change in the DOG policy.

Doesn't explain why RTÉ One has a DOG.

Machinehead wrote: »

I can't see RTÈ loosing the HD dog prior to ASO. I figure it is to be used as part of their marketing strategy for the HD content broadcast. As can be seen on the RTÉ Two now broadcasting in HD thread, the presence & sharpness of the HD Dog seems to be the only way some can establish if the transmission is 1080i or not.

The DOG has the same level of sharpness now regardless of what's being shown.

wil

I dont think everyone is as vehemently against dogs as perhaps those who frequent this forum. Many barely notice them and some find them an aid to knowing they are on the correct channel. For satellite tuning they are pretty useful. For most content other than movies or sport their presence or absense is barely of relevance.

A technical question that may be of relevance is "has burn in on lcd screens become an issue?"
A recently purchased and rather beautiful (but still flawed) Samsung LED Smart tv comes with loads of warnings re burn in with suggestions to avoid long term letterbox or 4.3 viewing.
It even has its own built in wandering dogs to avoid burn in.:pac:

Any techsperts wish to comment?

The Cush

wil wrote: »

I dont think everyone is as vehemently against dogs as perhaps those who frequent this forum. Many barely notice them and some find them an aid to knowing they are on the correct channel. For satellite tuning they are pretty useful. For most content other than movies or sport their presence or absense is barely of relevance.

I fall into the category of barely noticing them and find it useful when I haven't been watching the TV for a period of time to quickly identify the channel on screen, during ad breaks I have to find the remote.

Mike 1972

NewHillel wrote: »

I suspect that it is to allow the source of pirate copyright material be checked.

When they were first used (Italy 1970's) it was originally claimed to be for this reason as said country experienced an explosion in (quasi legal) pirate TV broadcasting.

Although whether this ever turned out to be actually a problem or why anyone would have bothered tuning into a pirate showing the same programmes as RAI was never made clear ?

Sam Russell

Mike 1972 wrote: »

When they were first used (Italy 1970's) it was originally claimed to be for this reason as said country experienced an explosion in (quasi legal) pirate TV broadcasting.

Although whether this ever turned out to be actually a problem or why anyone would have bothered tuning into a pirate showing the same programmes as RAI was never made clear ?

I always understood DOGs were to identify the source of recordings, for copyright, and for anti-piracy reasons. A recording off-air can be burnt to DVD (VHS tape in them days) and sold in a different market. It was a problem then. Why someone would bother now, given every old programme is available from plenty of low-rent satellite channels at all times.

Mike 1972

I dont see how "being able to identify the source" really helps anyone.

Say some high value copyright matrial is found doing the rounds on p2p and on closer examintion turns out to be emblazoned with the RTE2 DOG

Thats it narrowed down to 4.5 million suspects :rolleyes:

Sam Russell

Mike 1972 wrote: »

I dont see how "being able to identify the source" really helps anyone.

Say some high value copyright matrial is found doing the rounds on p2p and on closer examintion turns out to be emblazoned with the RTE2 DOG

Thats it narrowed down to 4.5 million suspects :rolleyes:

There are not looking for the person who copied it. They are looking for the fact it is a copy from an illegal/non-legal source. It is the same as printing 'NOT FOR RESALE' on a product. If it is then found to be for sale, that is proof that a crime (or breach of conditions) has been committed. Knock-offs for sale with RTE2 HD on the video picture are knock-offs for sure. Case closed.

newbie2

It's purely a branding thing.
AFAIK, they're getting a new piece of kit installed to display said gfx. This could account for the outage that the OP mantioned.

I could be wrong though...

Mike 1972

Sam Russell wrote: »

There are not looking for the person who copied it. They are looking for the fact it is a copy from an illegal/non-legal source. It is the same as printing 'NOT FOR RESALE' on a product. If it is then found to be for sale, that is proof that a crime (or breach of conditions) has been committed. Knock-offs for sale with RTE2 HD on the video picture are knock-offs for sure. Case closed.

Couldnt watermarking do the same job more effectively and less obtrusively ?

swoofer

DOGS are and always will be a joke. The best examples I can quote are SKY MOVIES tried it early on when they went digital, it lasted about 2 weeks, why? Everyone called to say get rid or we cancel? They got rid. BBC tried it a few years back, thousands of complaints. They went. The BBC One hd was on then taken off then put back on again but nigh invisible. ditto ITVHD.

SKY ATALANTIC came with a great fanfare but it had a DOG, we complained. sky relented and have the perfect compromise, show the stupid thing at begining and then fade it out.

However, in this country our broadcasters are a total law unto themselves ie they ignore the viewers, we actually pay their wages with the licence but makes no odds. I made the argument to them once if the DOG is so important why is it removed for the ads?? Answer, we dont own the airtime for ads, so there you have it, we pay the licence that pays their wages and the programme rights but we don't own the airtime. I have said many time that if two progs are the same ie on rte and itv everyone who can will switch to dump the dog.

The problem is they are stuck now as they WILL NEVER ADMIT they got it wrong, just like the .....

However, a tale of caution, I have seen foreign channels and the dogs are truly horrendous.

I have apple tv now so BYE BYE dogs.

gbc-

watty

Actually the Advertisers pay the most, hence they don't have the dogs set on them.

Pay TV channels with Advertising are an insult.

Antenna

watty wrote: »

It's an insult to intelligence of human race to have DOGs on other than Analogue Cable or Analogue Satellite.
(

If the channels have (or had) teletext - there wasn't much justification to have/had DOGs with analogue either. Just go in and out of text to see the channel name. TVs could tag the channels from the teletext data too.

Sam Russell

Antenna wrote: »

If the channels have (or had) teletext - there wasn't much justification to have/had DOGs with analogue either. Just go in and out of text to see the channel name. TVs could tag the channels from the teletext data too.

That is true, but it is easy to strip out the TTX.

I do not think watermarks are that good on analogue pictures. Certainly not as easy as in digital.

channelsurfer2

noticed a subtle shift in rte's DOG policy at the weekend.
sunday night rte news was the first programme with the RTEONE logo missing from the top right hand side of the screen and just had the usual rte news logo on the bottom left.
also the rugby yesterday was minus the usual rte logo attached to the scoreboard and just had RTE TWO HD logo instead.
maybe the start of someone at rte seeing common sense??

zg3409

I am noticing the RTE 2 HD logo coming and going today. There is an ad break the moment, no logo. There was a live interview from Poland, no logo then back to studio with logo.

I am watching via Sky HD with an SD sub, but a HD box.

Sorry for dragging up an old thread but I think it's worth it.

channelsurfer2

sorry to disappoint but i was told in a response by the high power in rte sport that my point of having no rte two hd dog with rte was reviewed but it was decided that the current policy would remain...
" with new channels (RTE +1, RTE TwoHD) and the launching of these channels on the SKY, UPC and Saorview platforms it is incumbent on us to ensure people realise who they are watching! The RTE Two logo is a very light watermark while the RTE in the clock is only on screen while the match is in play. Each station does this differently but I am satisfied that what we are doing is both appropriate and necessary. I didnt bother responding pointing out that a light watermark would be something akin to bbchd or itv1 logo not the bright white RTETWO HD logo that they consider light...

zg3409

Again the ad break has no logo. Above is a photo of the screen earlier. It was a live link before the match which had no logo. It seems to be they manually remove the logo during ad breaks and for whatever reason the logo did not appear during this interview.

Maybe if we keep pointing out every time they mess the logo up they will drop it!

copacetic

The commercial breaks have never had a bug on any of rte channels. From the pic above the bug just wouldn't be viewable on the white background.

Keithl2156

Anyone else notice this ? On Monday 23rd July 2012 at 9:00pm Eastenders will be on RTÉ Two HD.
On the tv guide it is not flagged as HD this is not the only program relating to this issue ??.

The Cush

Keithl2156 wrote: »

Anyone else notice this ? On Monday 23rd July 2012 at 9:00pm Eastenders will be on RTÉ Two HD.
On the tv guide it is not flagged as HD this is not the only program relating to this issue ??.

Checked Digiguide, double episode that night on BBC1. Naturally they're not going to move the Nine O'Clock News on RTÉ1 for Eastenders so they move the second episode to RTÉ2.

Keithl2156

Hi,
You are missing my point.
What I mean is that EastEnders on RTÉ Two HD does not have the "Orange Print" it is not flagged as HD when it is in full HD since Dec 2010. this isn't the only programme in this problem.

The Cush

Keithl2156 wrote: »

You are missing my point.
What I mean is that EastEnders on RTÉ Two HD does not have the "Orange Print" it is not flagged as HD when it is in full HD since Dec 2010. this isn't the only programme in this problem.

OK see your point. I assume their contract with the BBC is for the SD feed and just because 1 episode get shifted over to RTÉ2, because of a programming conflict, doesn't mean it going to be in full HD. Could be that you get what you pay/contract for. An email to RTÉ should clarify the reason it's not in HD.