D-Days for the Europe Experiment

old_aussie

Soaring sovereign debt, protests, race-hate, rising unemployment and suicide mark the 10th anniversary of the euro

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/ddays-for-the-europe-experiment-20120113-1pzca.html#ixzz1jO1j0YIn

Has opening the EU boarders up to foreigners really caused so much damage?

So many EU countries on the verge of financial destruction, will they ever recover.

Resources of countries being raped just because the EU treaty says all EU countries should "share"

Are EU countries losing their sovereignty and dignity over debt?

EU countries having their traditions, values and patriotism watered down by the influx of foreigners all demanding that the new host country do as they want.(like in the old country)

I'm all against opening boarders up to mass transition of foreigners.

A countries resources are just that..the country that owns the resource should determine how they are used and for the benefit of that country.

I think the EU has had it's run and now it's time to end it.

DrGreenthumb

old_aussie wrote: »

A countries resources are just that..the country that owns the resource should determine how they are used and for the benefit of that country.

another way of looking at it is that it's the worlds resources and everyone is entitled to them

joshrogan

Sure the world is ending this year so it doesn't matter anyway.

someuser905

we should invade some arab countries and steal their oil. like usa did. problem solved.

admiralofthefleet

when did all this happen, surely it would have been on the news and spoken about here

Millicent

Yeah, I'm sure the Sydney Morning Herald has the inside scoop on the EU, alright.

And sure it's all to do with open borders and nothing to do with that pesky global recession going on.

44leto

I would go with the OPs prognosis, Europe is failing, we are all going to die.

Millicent

44leto wrote: »

I would go with the OPs prognosis, Europe is failing, we are all going to die.

Shit, and there I thought I was going to be immortal if we stayed in the EU.

starbelgrade

Declan Ganley will save us all.

He's like a big, baldy political Superman.

carfiosaoorl

What a load of tripe op

hooradiation

And this time the death of the EU and all our woes will be blamed on... foreigners?

It's been a while since a thread has started with that particular brand of horseshit, i'll give you that.

Ostrom

Immigration was actively encouraged as policy to sustain growth. You can thank it in part for the rising living standards which provided you with your computer, and high speed internet access with which to type this ****e.

starbelgrade

Dey tuk ur resources.

Millicent

How out of curiosity, do you have any link to Ireland or do you just like banging on about foreigners to anyone who'll listen?

Also, LOL at an Australian complaining about immigration.

Icepick

So this how trolling 27 countries looks like.

Senna

Cost of borrowing on the international markets have dropped hugely for the PIIGS, (those who are in the market), the EU will continue, the Euro currency will continue. Most people eager for a collapse don't understand what will happen us if the EU collapses.

marty1985

Europe has problems, but they are the cause of their own problems, so blaming it on "foreigners" makes little sense. Who are these foreigners, other Europeans or immigrants from outside the EU?

It has been an experiment, a noble one, but does seem to suffer from a failure of identification with the human side of what seems like an impersonal engine, created by elites and largely confined to them.

millicent wrote: »

Yeah, I'm sure the Sydney Morning Herald has the inside scoop on the EU, alright.
And sure it's all to do with open borders and nothing to do with that pesky global recession going on.

Also, LOL at an Australian complaining about immigration.

Why might Australian opinion matter? They have not had the same experience of socio-economic failure among ethnic communities that has been seen in Europe.

Focusing on the EU itself, and not on the Euro currency zone, Europe is in deep trouble - but a reality check is in order. We face difficult decisions about integration and assimilation, and cultural identity, and avoiding disorder and civil conflict. It is the societies that have negotiated these debates in the past that we need to look towards.

Before the global recession a lot of these issues came to light. A lot of unease about how we deal with our ethnic minorities has been created by 9/11, and the bombings in London and Madrid and the murder of Theo Van Gogh. The potential culture wars of the future are easy to imagine, but often suggestions become cliche so let's get back to reality. Europe has problems, but rumours of its death are slightly exaggerated.

The problem with the currency is that it is compounding already existing strife. A rise in austerity can lead to a mindset of nationalism and racism.

The old concept of multiculturalism is being challenged, and this seems to be the OP's gripe.

Marcello Pera (Professor of Philosophy, ex-Italian senator) has written of how multiculturalism has planted and fostered a guilt complex in many Europeans: When minority groups of all types-ethnic, religious, or cultural-contest the majority of the greater society as being hostile, insensitive to differences, or not open to alien customs and practices, the majority often gives way, backing down from its position, as if ashamed, insecure, or remorseful. For self-flagellation, politically correct language provides the best whip.

Consequently, minority societies slowly displace it, according to his thesis.

old_aussie wrote: »

I'm all against opening boarders up to mass transition of foreigners.

efla wrote: »

Immigration was actively encouraged as policy to sustain growth. You can thank it in part for the rising living standards which provided you with your computer, and high speed internet access with which to type this ****e.

The OP is entitled to his view, but efla is right.

Immigration is a neccessity due to the decline of Western populations. We need immigration to keep the economic wheels turning. The blame for the very natural sense of unease felt by Europeans lies, not with the newcomers, but with Europeans themselves. It's their culture that has failed the first and most vital test of any human culture: it cannot reproduce itself into the future. Today, Western Europe has some of the lowest birth rates ever recorded. This is the fundamental reality of Europe today, and governments recognise it.

Philip Longman describes it like this: If Europe were a woman, her biological clock would be rapidly running down. It is not too late to adopt more children, but they won't look like her.

To return to economics - we are living longer and having fewer children. If we are going to retire and enjoy our twilights, someone has to keep working to pay taxes, especially since we're accustomed to high levels of social benefits. Mark Steyn: "The design flaw of the secular social-democratic state is that it requires a religious-society birthrate to sustain it."

In reality, a country like Germany, with a birth rate of 1.4 (2.1 being the minimum needed to replace the population) could fall from 82 million now to 38 million in 2100. This won't happen in reality. It would create a social, political and demographic vacuum that could not be left unfilled.

There has been rising anti-immigration feeling in Germany. Angela Merkel says attempts to create a multicultural society have "utterly failed". Similarly in France, Sarkozy says multiculturalism has failed. "We have been too concerned about the identity of the person who was arriving and not enough about the identity of the country that was receiving him." David Cameron also called multiculturalism a failure, calling for better integration of young Muslims to combat home-grown extremism.

So, we want foreigners to assimilate, but assimilate to what? As a French writer in Liberation put it, "There is no French, Dutch or other European dream. You emigrate here to escape poverty, nothing more." The problem might be that we have abandoned our own heritage. Cultural accommodation can only go so far before non-negotiable European values are reached.

So, what are European values? This is crucial if we're going to integrate foreigners, and create a common bind within the Euro zone. Well, defining the basic values of our own culture makes sense if we mean to appreciate them, defend them, and even judge them better than others. But relativists have taught us that we mustn't use the word "better", and the multiculturalists have put this teaching into practice.

This may be why David Cameron said something recently about Britain being a Christian country. Merkel has said something similar about Germany. How it will all play out though is anyone's guess.

bleg

Well, taking your logic to its conclusion then if we find a massive amount of gold in my back yard in the morning then surely it's my gold and not the country's.

Killer Pigeon

Wasn't this in Mein Kampf, ah yes, "European Economic Community and death to foreigners". Great stuff...

Senna

Senna wrote: »

Cost of borrowing on the international markets have dropped hugely for the PIIGS, (those who are in the market), the EU will continue, the Euro currency will continue. Most people eager for a collapse don't understand what will happen us if the EU collapses.

Someone cranked up the ECB printing presses just before Christmas and dished out nearly five hundred thousand million Euros to the banks so they could splash out on bonds!

They will continue to print and prop up the Euro until it becomes impossible.

Give it a few years and All European countries will be closing their borders to non EU citizens who are escaping the affects of resource depletion.

cml387

Time for this review of Australian intellectual thought...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f_p0CgPeyA

Marcusm

old_aussie wrote: »

Soaring sovereign debt, protests, race-hate, rising unemployment and suicide mark the 10th anniversary of the euro

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/ddays-for-the-europe-experiment-20120113-1pzca.html#ixzz1jO1j0YIn

Has opening the EU boarders up to foreigners really caused so much damage?

So many EU countries on the verge of financial destruction, will they ever recover.

Resources of countries being raped just because the EU treaty says all EU countries should "share"

Are EU countries losing their sovereignty and dignity over debt?

EU countries having their traditions, values and patriotism watered down by the influx of foreigners all demanding that the new host country do as they want.(like in the old country)

I'm all against opening boarders up to mass transition of foreigners.

A countries resources are just that..the country that owns the resource should determine how they are used and for the benefit of that country.

I think the EU has had it's run and now it's time to end it.

And you are indigenously Australian?

charlemont

Its a pity, Too many people at the top, Politicians Bankers, screwed it all up for us, The EU could and should have been a great success.

Yahew

The EU was always a crazy idea. There really is no country or nation called Europe, and the only thing that kept Europe together, or in some way a cultural unit, was Christianity. That pretty much disappeared in the Protestant reformation, Europe dividing ideologically in two. And since then, with secularism, the tribes of Europe wold obviously trended towards nationalism.

The reaction to the most extreme form of that nationalism, in WWII, was noble, but naive. Its based on the sociological idea that States create nationalism. To say this is confounded by history is to understate the thing enormously ( if it were true there would be no separatist movements anywhere).

States can't create identities, they have to be there to begin with. As we can see from Mercozy bullying Ireland against burying the bondholders, and the whine about corporate tax, the EU has become a nationalistic Franco-German project.

For now. For as along as their interest coincide.