New 'express' bus 'every half hour' from Knocknacarra to City

Iwannahurl

This PT development was only briefly mentioned in another thread.

New ‘express buses’ every half hour from Knocknacarra to Galway City

A private bus operator is planning a new ‘express bus’ service from Knocknacarra to the city centre every 30 minutes once the dedicated bus lanes on the Seamus Quirke Road redevelopment in Westside are opened.

City Direct, commonly referred to as ‘The Red Bus’, said the new service that will travel from Knocknacarra, through the Western Distributor Road, Bishop O’Donnell Road, the bus lanes on Seamus Quirke Road and then over the Quincentenary Bridge and onto Eyre Square, will be launched once the multi-million road project is complete.

Company owner, Gerard Bartley, in a presentation to Galway City Council, said he may have to purchase a fleet of double-decker buses to service the new Seamus Quirke Road route because demand is expected to be so high.

Mr Bartley revealed that he had applied to the National Transport Authority (NTA) for a licence on this new route every 15 minutes but was refused. He reapplied for a 30-minutes frequency, which was granted.

Half-hour frequencies may not be sufficient to meet demand, he said, so the option of double-decker buses was being explored. The new bus lanes would shave almost 15 minutes off some journeys, he said.

“At the moment it’s taking 20 minutes to get from Cappagh Road to the hospital (UHG) – that journey will take about six minutes once the new service is in place,” he said.

Mr Bartley said a number of his existing bus services from Knocknacarra into town will use half of the Seamus Quirke Road bus lanes once they are opened at some stage this year.

I'm led to believe that the NTA listed a number of reasons for not authorising a quarter-hourly service. However, the main one was that they did not regard running a bus every 15 minutes as viable on the route. City Direct's response is to suggest using double-deckers every half hour, but I'm not sure how that would sit with the NTA. Apparently City Direct wanted to try it out first, then revert to half-hourly if the more frequent service didn't work out. The NTA didn't favour such a toe-in-the-water approach, reportedly.

snubbleste

This is good news.
I don't think there would be a demand for 15 minute intervals except at peak hours. Surely they can go with 30 minute intervals and then review at the six months mark?

Does anyone know what state subvention BÉ get to run city buse services?

inisboffin

I hope they consider, even down the line, having every 2nd one even going further East. A big issue is for people getting from home on the West to work on the East quickly and without taking two buses. This addresses a bit of the first one but they still need to get 2 buses. Having a service go right through, even a couple in the am/lunchtime/evening would be brilliant.

antoobrien

Kinda put in context by this i'd say:

http://www.galwaynews.ie/23701-130-miles-laud-merits-public-transport-–-and-they-came-car

130 miles to laud merits of public transport – and they came by car
January 13, 2012 - 7:15am
Officials stand accused of not practising what they preached

By Dara Bradley

They came to Galway to extol the virtues of public transport . . . but the two men in suits from Dublin didn’t practice what they preached.

High-ranking officials from the National Transport Authority (NTA) travelled to Galway City by private vehicle, rather than bus or train, to give a presentation reviewing the plans the agency has to improve public transport in the city.

The sentiment at the core of their presentation to City Councillors at Monday’s meeting was how to persuade the public to make the ‘modal shift’, away from private cars and into other forms of transport, particularly buses.

But despite there being at least one bus from Galway to Dublin every hour operated by both Bus Éireann and private bus operators, as well as several daily inter-city train services, Hugh Creegan NTA Director of Transport Planning and Investment, and his colleague Jeremy Ryan, drove to Galway on Monday.

This is despite the fact that they work for NTA, an organisation whose staff supposedly pride themselves on choosing public transport over private vehicles.

Bit of an oopise form the NTA there.

Iwannahurl

snubbleste wrote: »

This is good news.
I don't think there would be a demand for 15 minute intervals except at peak hours. Surely they can go with 30 minute intervals and then review at the six months mark?

Does anyone know what state subvention BÉ get to run city buse services?

I don't know about state subventions for BE, but IIRC a Councillor recently called for some of sort of redistribution of fares to balance the various routes.

I'll certainly be using the service if it can get me to town as quickly as Mr Bartley is suggesting.

Will the Quincentenary Bridge work for the bus at peak times without a QBC? This has been on the cards for years. I see no appeal in sitting in a bus during peak hours, when I could walk or cycle much faster. I'm assuming of course that there at still significant delays on the bridge at peak times...

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

Kinda put in context by this i'd say:

http://www.galwaynews.ie/23701-130-miles-laud-merits-public-transport-–-and-they-came-car



Bit of an oopise form the NTA there.

If they came by their own private cars they'd get paid for doing so, I'd imagine. Travelling by PT would not be so profitable.

Very few officials in this country practice what they preach, or allegedly support, regarding sustainable transport. Galway City Council is a prime example.

snubbleste

I attended a JPC meeting last year in one of the suburbs with a bus service stopping right outside the door of the location. I was there early and noticed that there were at least 6 city council officials who all travelled alone in their car to the location, presumably from City Hall given the time of day. I could see out the big windows of the building to the car park y'see. In addition a number of local and national elected representatives travelled alone in their vehicles to the location.
The main issues that dominated the meeting was motor traffic, the volume of motor traffic, the layout of transport routes, frustrated drivers and parking.
C'est la vie.

antoobrien

snubbleste wrote: »

This is good news.
I don't think there would be a demand for 15 minute intervals except at peak hours. Surely they can go with 30 minute intervals and then review at the six months mark?

Does anyone know what state subvention BÉ get to run city buse services?

BE don't break out the figures in their report. The total amount for 2010 is €45 (no report for 2011 yet).

It's widely held (but not proven) that the city routes in Galway don't get subvention, but the rural routes (Oranmore, Athenry, Mountbellew etc) get the funding.

what_traffic

Iwannahurl wrote: »

If they came by their own private cars they'd get paid for doing so, I'd imagine. Travelling by PT would not be so profitable.

You got it in one! What is the mileage rate/allowance they get?

antoobrien

snubbleste wrote: »

I was there early and noticed that there were at least 6 city council officials who all travelled alone in their car to the location, presumably from City Hall given the time of day.

Don't a few of them do trivial things like holding down jobs? Besides, if they were going to/coming from other appointments or home, there'd be a reason to have their own car.

what_traffic

snubbleste wrote: »

This is good news.

Its bad news for bus users - but good news for cyclists. Less buses using the Bus Lane.

Iwannahurl

snubbleste wrote: »

I attended a JPC meeting last year in one of the suburbs with a bus service stopping right outside the door of the location. I was there early and noticed that there were at least 6 city council officials who all travelled alone in their car to the location, presumably from City Hall given the time of day. I could see out the big windows of the building to the car park y'see. In addition a number of local and national elected representatives travelled alone in their vehicles to the location.
The main issues that dominated the meeting was motor traffic, the volume of motor traffic, the layout of transport routes, frustrated drivers and parking.
C'est la vie.

Many of the pundits still operate on the principle that traffic is other people and congestion can be cured by making more space for cars.

Using PT and other other more sustainable modes of travel for work purposes is infra dig. To suggest otherwise is to "push an agenda", as I've been told more than once. I've seen mileage charts on the walls of State agency offices in Galway City, detailing precise distances between key locations. Public sector employees are incentivised by often generous mileage allowances to use their car at every opportunity, and not surprisingly they are meticulous about documenting every little trip. When paid by the mile or part thereof (as opposed to km) they made sure to measure and add up all the quarter miles! No such incentive for cycling or using the bus, in my experience.

But I digress.

I'm surprised that the new bus route has apparently been approved so quickly. Is this the NTA being efficient, or is it a new licensing regime? I seem to remember complaints in the past about the licensing process taking years.

Mrs OBumble

snubbleste wrote: »

This is good news.
I don't think there would be a demand for 15 minute intervals except at peak hours. Surely they can go with 30 minute intervals and then review at the six months mark?

Does anyone know what state subvention BÉ get to run city buse services?

One of the reasons that route 9 is so successful is because of the frequency: even if one bus doesn't run (driver sick, breaks down, whatever), the next one isn't too far behind. But on a 1/2 hour frequency, the next one is an hour away, which is a mighty long time.

A frequent service actually builds demand - and I'd guess that there is a LOT of unmet demand from Knocknacarra.

It makes me very cross that a government agency should frustrate a private-sector company's plans to provide a good, unsubsidised service like this.


Someone asked if the licensing process had been sped up - dunno, the bus lane work on SQR started quite a while ago, so the companies have had plenty of time to put their route licence applications in. This recent comment on Galway Transport forum makes me think that perhaps the NTA has finally had a look at all the proposals for Galway which BE had hoped to implement in June 2010.

Iwannahurl

JustMary wrote: »

A frequent service actually builds demand - and I'd guess that there is a LOT of unmet demand from Knocknacarra.

It makes me very cross that a government agency should frustrate a private-sector company's plans to provide a good, unsubsidised service like this.

My initial reaction when I read the report about the NTA's refusal to approve a 15-minute service was incredulity and annoyance. I made some enquiries and spoke to one Councillor about the issue, who explained that the NTA did not want to sanction a 15-minute service initially, only to have it pulled due to lack of demand.

It's frustrating, perhaps, but I can see their point. The bus service provider in question, when asked what they would do if a quarter-hourly service was not attracting a sufficient number of passengers, apparently replied that they would just cut the service. It seems that was not regarded as acceptable, and I'm inclined to agree. There's already far too much chopping and changing with those buses, in addition to problems of punctuality and reliability.

A decent service would indeed build demand, and I suspect there's a fair bit of latent demand in Knocknacarra for such a service. Sweeping into town on an 'express' service using dedicated bus lanes is a very appealing prospect, IMO. If you build it they will come, and in this case 'it' means a reliable and frequent enough service, with proper bus stops/shelters and a QBC for as much of the route as possible.

biko

Well the bus lanes are opening up quite soon so we'll see how much congestion is really elated by the lanes.
I hope that this bus service will go ahead and more people will use buses.

Iwannahurl

biko wrote: »

Well the bus lanes are opening up quite soon so we'll see how much congestion is really elated by the lanes.

I hope that this bus service will go ahead and more people will use buses.

I wonder how easy it would be to quantify a congestion-relieving effect directly attributable to the SQR bus lanes.

A more straightforward measure of success, IMO, would be a net increase in bus passenger numbers on City Direct buses in that part of the city. That in itself would be a worthwhile outcome, and in due course I hope to be one of the users of the route.

what_traffic

Iwannahurl wrote: »

That in itself would be a worthwhile outcome, and in due course I hope to be one of the users of the route.

Dont go over to the dark side Iwannahurl! Stick to your Iron Steed.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I wonder how easy it would be to quantify a congestion-relieving effect directly attributable to the SQR bus lanes.

A more straightforward measure of success, IMO, would be a net increase in bus passenger numbers on City Direct buses in that part of the city. That in itself would be a worthwhile outcome, and in due course I hope to be one of the users of the route.

Way to move the goalposts - any new bus route (as this is) should mean a net increase in the passengers for the company running it. By your rules, it is virtually impossible for it to be a failure.

Is the aim of the bus lanes & extra buses to reduce congestion or subsidize your employers bus companies?

If it's the former, then the only way it can be judged is if congestion is reduced (btw with 5 sets of lights replacing 2, the odds are stacked against it being due to the "upgrade" of the road).

Iwannahurl

what_traffic wrote: »

Dont go over to the dark side Iwannahurl! Stick to your Iron Steed.

I've always been multi-modal!

antoobrien wrote: »

Way to move the goalposts - any new bus route (as this is) should mean a net increase in the passengers for the company running it. By your rules, it is virtually impossible for it to be a failure.

Is the aim of the bus lanes & extra buses to reduce congestion or subsidize your employers bus companies?

If it's the former, then the only way it can be judged is if congestion is reduced (btw with 5 sets of lights replacing 2, the odds are stacked against it being due to the "upgrade" of the road).

My employers??? Eh?

What I referred to earlier was "a congestion-relieving effect directly attributable to the SQR bus lanes".

How would you (a) measure congestion on the SQR before and after the bus service, (b) quantify any effect attributable only to the bus lanes, and (c) allow for all potential confounding factors?

A net increase in overall passenger numbers for the operator would allow for the possibility that some passengers may simply switch routes. For example, I vaguely recall it being alleged that some of the early growth in Luas passenger numbers was due to people switching from certain bus routes.

Ideally I'd like to see passenger numbers increasing on the SQR bus route due to modal switch from the usual single-occupant private car use, rather than a switch from other bus routes, walking or cycling, which would not be a gain for more sustainable transport.

I doubt it's going to be a failure though, regardless of how progress is measured. I fancy it'll be another success like the #9 BE service to Parkmore.

I also hope that bus priority measures incorporated into the proposed AUTC sustem will in due course allow buses on the route to sail through all those traffic lights. That would be another incentive for modal switch from car use.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

What I referred to earlier was "a congestion-relieving effect directly attributable to the SQR bus lanes".

How would you (a) measure congestion on the SQR before and after the bus service, (b) quantify any effect attributable only to the bus lanes, and (c) allow for all potential confounding factors?

Oh I dunno maybe ask Dublin City council, who have built bus lanes, how it has affected their traffic. Hace Dublin bus any surveys.

I can give a couple of suggestions - raw traffic counts, Journey times (though that will be affected by the extra sets of lights), letters to the editor in the advertiser and tribune (the residents of doughiska wrote a few after the Briarhill conversion about how much worse their life is because of it, the monivea road is worse than ever).

Of course no criteria will be is perfect, but then actually trying to put metrics up front would introduce the possibility of failure.

A net increase in overall passenger numbers for the operator would allow for the possibility that some passengers may simply switch routes.

If all this does is take passengers from BE buses, then it's a failure, that's why I'm dismissing it as a valid measure of success. If in a years time there are 10 more customers using city direct after this route comes in then it's a failure. As will be the bus lanes that it runs on.

So instead of sitting around asking how to measure it come up with something.

For example, I vaguely recall it being alleged that some of the early growth in Luas passenger numbers was due to people switching from certain bus routes.

I can vouch for the this personally, a lot of people moved form the 90 bus (Connolly to Hueston).

I doubt it's going to be a failure though, regardless of how progress is measured. I fancy it'll be another success like the #9 BE service to Parkmore.

How is success being measured there - by taking passengers off the Lisbeg Lawns & Ballybrit busses? the fact that GMIT is on the route?

It's easy to call something a success without giving a metric. I used the 409 bus at 9am yesterday morning. There are about 10 people on it going into Eyre Square (doubt it was enough to pay for the diesel or the drivers wages). The traffic was backed up from Coynes shop at the top of the road nearly as far as the entrance to Fionn Usice. So, to me the #9 is failing because its not providing the required service to the residents along the route, as they still feel they have o use their cars to get wherever they're going (despite the 15 minute frequency).

Iwannahurl

What I suggested earlier as that it might not be so easy to quantify a congestion-relieving effect that would be directly attributable to the SQR bus lanes, and you haven't demonstrated anything to the contrary.

If the new City Direct service on the SQR takes passengers from Bus Eireann then that might be regarded as a sucess by those who favour competition in public transport. However, I'd prefer to see an overall increase in the use of PT. Then again, maybe the competition might make BE work harder and become more creative and customer focused? I wouldn't hold my breath...

Perhaps the more reliable metrics are the more sustained and longer term ones, eg as reflected in CSO travel stats.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

What I suggested earlier as that it might not be so easy to quantify a congestion-relieving effect that would be directly attributable to the SQR bus lanes, and you haven't demonstrated anything to the contrary.

If the new City Direct service on the SQR takes passengers from Bus Eireann then that might be regarded as a sucess by those who favour competition in public transport. However, I'd prefer to see an overall increase in the use of PT. Then again, maybe the competition might make BE work harder and become more creative and customer focused? I wouldn't hold my breath...

Perhaps the more reliable metrics are the more sustained and longer term ones, eg as reflected in CSO travel stats.

So you're just going to sit back and declare victory no matter what happens then.

what_traffic

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I've always been multi-modal!

Well as long as its a 99% -> 1% multi-modal breakdown,ya might get away with it.