Job creation Fine Gael style

jbkenn

I am trying to contain my rage after reading this internship offer on Fine Gael T.D. Eoghan Murphy's website
http://www.eoghanmurphy.ie/2012/01/11/4575/

Job Description
The position will involve supporting the existing team in the areas of research, administration and general support and back up. The position will be office based Tuesday to Thursday 9.30am to 5.30pm. This position is open immediately. The successful candidate will be based primarily in the Ranelagh constituency office.
The ideal candidate should have:
Proven research skills
Excellent written and verbal communication skills
Good computer skills to include Excel, Word processing and internet.
Knowledge of online social media outlets
Ability to work on own initiative
Excellent organisational and people skills
The ideal candidate should be:
Interested in Politics and current affairs
A team player
Highly motivated
To Apply:
All CV’s with a cover letter to be sent to eoghan.murphy@oireachtas.ie .This is not a salaried position and the successful candidate will not be able to apply for this position under the Jobsbridge scheme. However lunch expenses will be covered. While the position cannot be made permanent, it can be extended.
The successful candidate will need his/her own laptop.
Applications should be received on or before next Tuesday 17th January 2012.

Is this part of the 100,000 Fine Gael Jobs Initiative?

Does he not realise that what the electorate did to Fianna Fail in 2011, they can also do to Fine Gael next election?

This jumped up City Councillor is a disgrace

Seething

Ash.J.Williams

in fairness....if i was just out of college that would be great experience....

jbkenn

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

in fairness....if i was just out of college that would be great experience....

There is no fairness in this, said cheapskate is more than adequately compensated for his constituency office.
If, like me, you had to fund your son/daughter to the tune 0f €4800 for a similar "Internship" I doubt you would see any fairness in it.

Sleepy

where's the figure of 4,800 coming from?

cloptrop

i have no idea how people can say this is a good thing , this fella is looking for someone with experience and calling it work experience ,
its taking the lucky to have a job spirit to the next level
you cant even get the dole if you have this position cause you are not actively seeking full time employment , could someone with letter writing skills post this to the herald its a disgrace

baddebt

jbkenn wrote: »

I am trying to contain my rage after reading this internship offer on Fine Gael T.D. Eoghan Murphy's website
http://www.eoghanmurphy.ie/2012/01/11/4575/

Is this part of the 100,000 Fine Gael Jobs Initiative?
Has this cretin any shame?
Does he not realise that what the electorate did to Fianna Fail in 2011, they can also do to Fine Gael next election?

This jumped up City Councillor is a disgrace

Seething

the company I work for had 11 intern positions available , we had a list of 16 candidates for interview ....................NONE OF WHICH TURNED UP our follow up with all the candidates 10 of which stated its a waste of their time if they have no chance of being able to get a full time pos out of it.

cloptrop

yeah the main part of the ad is how it says the position may be extended but not changed to a paid position , will this be incase the people arnt experienced enough after the 6 months , will they have to do another 3 months ,

n97 mini

A TD's income is enormous and he could easily fund the position out of his own pocket. But he chooses not to.

syklops

cloptrop wrote: »

i have no idea how people can say this is a good thing , this fella is looking for someone with experience and calling it work experience ,
its taking the lucky to have a job spirit to the next level
you cant even get the dole if you have this position cause you are not actively seeking full time employment , could someone with letter writing skills post this to the herald its a disgrace

Where does it say he is looking for someone with experience?

The ideal candidate should have:

Proven research skills
Excellent written and verbal communication skills
Good computer skills to include Excel, Word processing and internet.
Knowledge of online social media outlets
Ability to work on own initiative
Excellent organisational and people skills

If you come out of secondary school(nevermind College) without that full list of skills you should go back to the Department of Education and ask for a refund.

I personally would love to have done something like that when I was just out school. It would look great on a CV and you would meet all kinds of people.

RichardAnd

This TD is looking for a filing pleb at no cost to himself. It's one thing for profitable companies trying to get labour for free, it's another entirely for a state representative to do it. Things like this just depress me, yet another person out to exploit a young person.

tayto lover

RichardAnd wrote: »

This TD is looking for a filing pleb at no cost to himself. It's one thing for profitable companies trying to get labour for free, it's another entirely for a state representative to do it. Things like this just depress me, yet another person out to exploit a young person.

Its not right for him and its not right for a profitable company either. The "scheme" is being abused by all. Internship sucks. Its free labour and is being exploited.

RichardAnd

tayto lover wrote: »

Its not right for him and its not right for a profitable company either. The "scheme" is being abused by all. Internship sucks. Its free labour and is being exploited.

You're quite correct, I agree. What I meant was that whilst it's devious and self serving for a profitable company to behave in such a manner, it's not surprising that many would if allowed to (profit is king after all, to some). A TD doing it is much worse as he should be setting an example and treating others with respect.

cloptrop

syklops wrote: »

Where does it say he is looking for someone with experience?

The ideal candidate should have:

Proven research skills
Excellent written and verbal communication skills
Good computer skills to include Excel, Word processing and internet.
Knowledge of online social media outlets
Ability to work on own initiative
Excellent organisational and people skills

If you come out of secondary school(nevermind College) without that full list of skills you should go back to the Department of Education and ask for a refund.

I personally would love to have done something like that when I was just out school. It would look great on a CV and you would meet all kinds of people.

proven research skills?

syklops

cloptrop wrote: »

proven research skills?

You never researched anything in school?

cloptrop

nope, and if i did it wouldnt be proveable

syklops

nope, and if i did it wouldnt be proveable

Seriously? You never wrote an essay?

Also, "proven" does not mean you will have to prove it in front of him in the interview. Its basically another word for experienced.

cloptrop

you didnt learn to use a thesaurus in school?

cloptrop

syklops wrote: »

Seriously? You never wrote an essay?

Also, "proven" does not mean you will have to prove it in front of him in the interview. Its basically another word for experienced.

experience ah thought you didnt need that

syklops

cloptrop wrote: »

experience ah thought you didnt need that

Are you being obtuse on purpose?

cloptrop

syklops wrote: »

Are you being obtuse on purpose?

Are you trolling on purpose, would you honestly have your daughter do this work, if yes then you are advising her to be a sap for the rest of her career

bladespin

Expects the candidate to provide the equipment as well, pretty much sums it up really :rolleyes:

cloptrop

bladespin wrote: »

Expects the candidate to provide the equipment as well, pretty much sums it up really :rolleyes:

yeah youd need your own laptop so you could do 200 hours at home doing extra work experience overtime

syklops

cloptrop wrote: »

Are you trolling on purpose, would you honestly have your daughter do this work, if yes then you are advising her to be a sap for the rest of her career

If I was starting out with no experience I would happily do this. If I had a daughter I would also suggest she do it to gain experience. I interned in Shannon Aerospace and the Irish Times in their IT departments to gain experience when I was 17. On foot of the experience and letters of recommendation I got other jobs IT related, which helped me get to where I am today.

Call me a sap if you want. No skin off my nose.

Brussels Sprout

I'm all for a bit of TD bashing at the best of times but I don't see anything wrong with this. The American political system has a plentiful supply of interns who don't get paid. There is an understanding that the intern is getting really good experience that will stand to them in their future career and will likely benefit them financially in the long run.

I'd have far more of a problem with the companies who have been putting dead-end jobs up on JobBridge and trying to pass them off as internships. At least this really is an internship.

StupidLikeAFox

If this was a long term position I would see how people would be concerned. However, if you were just out of college, applying for 100s of jobs and getting nowhere without experience this would suit. For instance, this would provide good experience if you wanted to get into politics, journalism or PR.

Fast forward to this time next year, and two 2011/2012 graduates are asked about their work experience.

1. Off the top of my head - I worked in a TDs office, fast paced environment, public facing, learned valuable people skills and how to deal with irate people, gained valuable contacts in Dail Eireann, gained a hands-on understanding of how the political establishment works, researched topics and provided presentations that were produced at the highest level

2. I was on the dole for a year as I took the principled position not to avail of a work experience scheme.


Whatever about the failings or merits job-bridge scheme, this is actually providing decent experience and is a good example of what its supposed to be about. I dont think it is comparable to supermarkets getting people to stack shelves for free

[bold]EDIT[/bold] Wait, just saw that this is neither on JobBridge or is salaried. I think the candidate should get some sort of compensation more than just "lunches paid for", however the point regarding experience still stands.

cloptrop

ColHol wrote: »

If this was a long term position I would see how people would be concerned. However, if you were just out of college, applying for 100s of jobs and getting nowhere without experience this would suit. For instance, this would provide good experience if you wanted to get into politics, journalism or PR.

Fast forward to this time next year, and two 2011/2012 graduates are asked about their work experience.

1. Off the top of my head - I worked in a TDs office, fast paced environment, public facing, learned valuable people skills and how to deal with irate people, gained valuable contacts in Dail Eireann, gained a hands-on understanding of how the political establishment works, researched topics and provided presentations that were produced at the highest level

2. I was on the dole for a year as I took the principled position not to avail of a work experience scheme.


Whatever about the failings or merits job-bridge scheme, this is actually providing decent experience and is a good example of what its supposed to be about. I dont think it is comparable to supermarkets getting people to stack shelves for free

[bold]EDIT[/bold] Wait, just saw that this is neither on JobBridge or is salaried. I think the candidate should get some sort of compensation more than just "lunches paid for", however the point regarding experience still stands.

ITS A JOB THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE
getting it done for free does not merit giving experience t someone
if there are people out there with experience they should get this job ,not someone working for free

here is a crazy idea
how about the politicians pay is cut and we hire someone with the savings?

jbkenn

Sleepy wrote: »

where's the figure of 4,800 coming from?

The Internship was in Dublin, 22 weeks
€100 a week for a room in Rathmines
Food, bus fares, train fares etc.
There was absolutely no remuneration, taken out to dinner on the night she finished up, and, informed that unfortunately there was no funding to offer her any position

p.s. this was her third internship, unfortunately the ban on Public service recruitment prevents her pursuing her preferred career choice, she has now decided to emigrate.

Sleepy

So why did you subsidise it? I'm presuming your answer to this is to help your daughter gain experience she can reference in a job interview / potentially get a job with the organisation she was interning with at the end of the placement?

She was lucky she had you to support her through this but if she didn't, under the jobsbridge scheme the state would have supported her through it (via JSA and top-up).

The company I worked has taken in 3 interns under the scheme since I've been here. Two of the candidates left within a couple of months having gotten paid positions elsewhere (which no-doubt their internship here helped them get, the 3rd is sitting right in front of me having been made permanent at the end of a 3 month internship because she demonstrated enough value to the company to warrant hiring her).

While I don't agree with the nod-and-wink, "it's who you know" culture of the Irish political system and it appears to be at least somewhat on the wane, an internship in a TD's office would garner incredible contacts for any job-seeker. I can see the appeal of such a position for anyone graduating college looking to get into any position dealing with the media or someone with a non-focused Arts degree who needs some real world experience to demonstrate they're capable of handling an admin position.

_Kaiser_

Have to agree with the OP on this one.

Like all these "internships", it's merely a badly disguised method to get some slave labour in for a few months, turf them out at the end of it and replace them with another "intern".

I disagree with this on principle as it devalues not only the individual in question, but anyone else who is doing a similar job but getting a salary. If you're doing a job for someone you deserve to get SOME (financial) compensation for it - end of!

This however is indeed a new low as not only is the "successful applicant" required to work for nothing, they have to provide their own personal laptop to do this work on as well??! This is made even more disgraceful by the fact that it's an overpaid, over-expensed TD that's offering this "opportunity"

When Enda's not too busy looking like a schoolboy on tour to Number 10 (I saw him on the RTE news last night with David Cameron and jesus who dresses the man - seriously!), maybe someone should send him this and see what he says.

(I would myself, but the last time I contacted him - about his response to the Callelly affair - I got an email back from his iPhone no less asking what it was to do with him? When I pointed out that as the main leader of the (then) opposition he surely should/would have some thoughts, I of course didn't get a reply)

mikom

Goody....... not long now to wait before the first Irish political intern sex scandal.
They'll probably be given an extra 50 Euros of tax payers money per poke.

no more personal insults or discussion of reported posts please

jbkenn

Sleepy wrote: »

So why did you subsidise it? I'm presuming your answer to this is to help your daughter gain experience she can reference in a job interview / potentially get a job with the organisation she was interning with at the end of the placement?

Hey, it's what parents do, goes with the territory, Dad's Taxi, phone credit, etc., we would happily bankrupt ourselves to see our children get a start in life, instead we have to contend with this worthless second rate political gob****e and his ilk.

Ash.J.Williams

cloptrop wrote: »

Are you trolling on purpose, would you honestly have your daughter do this work, if yes then you are advising her to be a sap for the rest of her career

i would disagree

BOHtox

Typical FF. They give out when Enda gives his advisor a pay rise saying the country is bankrupt and now they give out because some TD is offer an internship with only lunch expenses and no pay.
Pick a side, and stick with it!

Barely Hedged

I dont get what all the fuss is about. Isnt the Job Bridge scheme supposed to be something you do because you cant find work elsewhere so the government give you two options - either stay on the dole doing nothing or gain some experience with a top up on your dole allowance?

I would say that the fact a government member is offering it would maybe make it more appealing. Who knows what influential people or contacts you might come across on a daily basis or what a wide variety of people you could impress while displaying a hard working attitude. It sounds like a good stepping stone to me.

meglome

I don't see the excitement, someone can gain experience from this and get a decent job. I did something similar myself when I was starting out. It's irrelevant if this is a job that needs to be done or not.

My friend is building up his business and without two people from the government scheme he would be having serious problems doing that. It's likely that two people will have jobs because he was able to expand internationally without needing to have the funding upfront. There's no way he was getting it off the banks.

Zonda999

In fairness, looking at the wording of the details in the OP, it does look like they're looking for some one out of college or the like. With the references to social media and all that. Wouldn't be a bad thing to have on a Cv in that respect at all.

The requirement to have your own laptop is a bit suspect alright in fairness but anyone out of college would have one.

I would defnintely agree that it would undoubtedly bring up a few opportunities to meet some people that actually might get you a job. Some people might see that aspect of this internship to be blatant corruption at work but not mydelf, thats just being opportunistic, which you need to be in that day in age. Put it this way, you'd do this for a T.D, not anyone, and the T.D himself who's offering this would know it well..

DBDH

Seriously - who would be in a position to take on this internship?
On the basis that it is unpaid, it automatically creates a huge barrier to those people who would either lose their dole payment by taking up this internship or to those graduates who simply cannot afford to take on unpaid work (even if it would be 'great experience'). In this case, it simply suits those graduates who are financially comfortable enough to take on an unpaid internship and don't struggle paying any bills (or whose parents are still looking after them)

There is already a National Internship Scheme and TDs and public representatives would be better served by focusing on improving the monitoring and implementation of this JobBridge intiative and trying to deal with the ongoing issues surrounding it.

Lets not forget the allowances TDs already get to hire staff and the fact that most never advertise publicly for people to fill that role but often hire family members etc.

tayto lover

BOHtox wrote: »

Typical FF. They give out when Enda gives his advisor a pay rise saying the country is bankrupt and now they give out because some TD is offer an internship with only lunch expenses and no pay.
Pick a side, and stick with it!

I don't support any political party but I have a suggestion. Let any T.D. who takes on an intern give his secretarial expenses back to the state. Simple.
It is wrong to get the job done on the cheap while keeping the expenses at the same time.

Bannasidhe

Mate of mine interned for Mary Robinson when she first started her campaign for the Presidency (before the Labour Party came on board). Difference was, mate was majoring in politics at an Ivy League college in the US, approached Mary R and asked for an internship, only did it over the summer break and MR gave her stipend out of her own money so she could cover the costs of food and shared accommodation.
She got loads of really positive experience as the operation was being run on a shoestring and as no-one thought Robinson had a hope of winning all ideas were listened to.

Once the LP 'selected' Robinson as a candidate, mate was relegated to stuffing envelopes and answering the phones. Skills she already possessed.

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Mary R and asked for an internship, only did it over the summer break and MR gave her stipend out of her own money

If people get welfare from an internship and employers give them some extra money to bring up the wage then the scheme has the same impact as the black market.

We have the potential here to ruin the economy and as time goes on the scheme becomes accepted and normalised. Huge social change for the worse

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't support any political party but I have a suggestion. Let any T.D. who takes on an intern give his secretarial expenses back to the state. Simple.
It is wrong to get the job done on the cheap while keeping the expenses at the same time.

THANK YOU!! Finally some sense.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0280.html

secretarial allowance is increased to -

(a) in the case of a member of Dáil Éireann, €36,320 per year, or where the first point of the parliamentary assistant pay scale is more than that amount, the amount of the first point per year,

and the amount has gone up since the 2006 link to:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0121/1224288006994.html

TDs qualify for a secretarial allowance worth about €41,000

That is why I called them vermin in my thread that was closed.

Bannasidhe

Deleted User wrote: »

If people get welfare from an internship and employers give them some extra money to bring up the wage then the scheme has the same impact as the black market.

We have the potential here to ruin the economy and as time goes on the scheme becomes accepted and normalised. Huge social change for the worse

In the case I mentioned the person was Irish but a student in a US college - so she wasn't getting welfare, and indeed had to pay large college fees plus living expenses in the States so the cost of living for a summer in Dublin to do an internship would have been a huge financial burden.

I do think getting someone in on a internship for a position which is normally a paid job (Tesco shelf packers, Curry's warehouse workers etc) is ridiculous.

I also don't think interns should be paid the extra 50 euro out if SW. Rather that the employer make up the difference between SW payments and minimum wage. Also, if an employer fails to provide any form of employment after they had taken on a certain number of interns (say 3/4 in a row) they should be barred from participating in the scheme. This as a disincentive for employers to just continually take on interns for 9 months, then another and another - that would be too much like filling a shortage in their workforce by taking on cheap/free labour to fill the gap.

cloptrop

Deleted User wrote: »

THANK YOU!! Finally some sense.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0280.html

and the amount has gone up since the 2006 link to:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0121/1224288006994.html




That is why I called them vermin in my thread that was closed.

I wish i had the eloquence to post like yer self and the chap you quoted, i reckon thats case closed , and the orignal advertiser should be explaining where his allowance for secretaries is going. Im more than sure its going to his wife, employed as his secretary taking home the money and not paying some saddo with a rich daddy to do the filing. Why doesnt these rich<its great experience for ye hunnie> fathers not just give the references to the daughters themselves.
She cleaned my kitchen voluntarily for 6 months extended to nine, bt sadly i didnt have a full time position for her on account of the wife being there.

Barely Hedged

Barely Hedged wrote: »

I would say that the fact a government member is offering it would maybe make it more appealing. Who knows what influential people or contacts you might come across

Gombeenism is a BIG problem in Ireland

Lockstep

As much as I dislike FG, I don't see a problem with this.
Fair few of my friends have done unpaid internships in various Oireachtais offices for the experience.

Where's all of this false outrage coming from? These positions are gold to a politics student like myself and I would certainly be first in the queue were I eligible.

Debtocracy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Where's all of this false outrage coming from? These positions are gold to a politics student like myself and I would certainly be first in the queue were I eligible.

People seem to be forgetting why minimum wages laws were invented. The situation has got so bad in the U.S. that 2 or more internships is the norm and in some cases the intern has to pay for the internship. Not surprising that social mobility has continued to decrease in the U.S. No point in having free tuitions fess if social mobility is crushed by internships. I remember reading once that the vast majority of internships in the U.S. are technically illegal. But what are interns going to do about it? Interns are stuck in a hole where more debt and unpaid internships are the only means to get a job with a high enough wage to pay off college debts. Once again another example of how society is moving towards a modern system of debt slavery.

PeadarCo

Debtocracy wrote: »

People seem to be forgetting why minimum wages laws were invented. The situation has got so bad in the U.S. that 2 or more internships is the norm and in some cases the intern has to pay for the internship. Not surprising that social mobility has continued to decrease in the U.S. No point in having free tuitions fess if social mobility is crushed by internships. I remember reading once that the vast majority of internships in the U.S. are technically illegal. But what are interns going to do about it? Interns are stuck in a hole where more debt and unpaid internships are the only means to get a job with a high enough wage to pay off college debts. Once again another example of how society is moving towards a modern system of debt slavery.

I don't see the difference between this and person doing voluntary work. In both cases people work for free and get experience in return. I'm not suprised some people pay to do interships if its with the right person/company as long term it could pay itself with better opportunities. Obviously there are bad interships out there that arn't worth it. For people who are in a position to take a long term view(generally students or recent graduates) they can be very valuable. It doesn't suit everyone and there needs to be mulitple different ideas to cater for the needs of different people but at least its something and should be of help to the person that gets it.

Debtocracy

Debtocracy wrote: »

Interns are stuck in a hole where more debt and unpaid internships are the only means to get a job with a high enough wage to pay off college debts.

This is where your argument falls down. The idea is that you are unpaid/low-paid now in order to be worth *more* at the end than you would have been otherwise. i.e. you're being paid in experience and contacts. I'm really not seeing the issue here?