Advice sought please, Drug charge

sflynn

Hi folks, after a recent conversation at work i was recommended to join this site in search of some advice.

My cousin, was caught with an amount of cocaine. it was over a bar but i do not know the value. It was however enough to get a section 15a (posession with intent to supply when value exceeded 13000) It carries a mandatory sentence unless the judge sees otherwise.

He was since released without charge although the garda will be back to do so at some stage over the coming months. He has one minor conviction for possesion of cannabis and is most probably going to recieve a sentence.

My question is can my cousin go to the uk for a few years now? He hasn't been charged yet and is afraid of prison. Is he entitled to uk ppsn etc to work? Can the garda charge him whilst being in the uk?

I do expect quite the earful from some members but i'm not going to get an answer unless i ask and i am very worried for my cousin, he is only 19.

MagicSean

The charge will be waiting for him when he gets back. And forget about him coming home for Christmas day or anything. If the investigating garda gets wind of it he'll be arrested and charged and there will be grounds for refusing bail as well. He should talk about this with a solicitor.

sflynn

Thanks sean for your reply, they cannot charge him in the uk then?

He has a solicitor but i just wanted to get another opinion, it was a friend at work pointed me this way. I just want to know he can go safely and turn things around for himself in a few years. We have family in UK that he can stay with.

Reloc8

He's not under any restriction preventing him from traveling. However to think he could 'wait until the heat dies down' is fanciful. He would be extradited, or simply arrested on return - the charge will not go away.

If he were to leg it he would have very little prospects of bail when eventually brought to court on this.

He needs a good solicitor.

sflynn

I know its always going to be there, what we are getting at is he could come home after 5 years or so and plead his case that he was mixing with the wrong people and has since turned his life around.

Once he gets to the uk, can he apply for national security number to work?

Reloc8

He could try that, or he might be extradited at any stage after a charge is brought - he has no certainty. If he's brought back on an extradition warrant he'll get no sympathy from the courts.

Nothing stopping him applying for anything he wants to in the UK as per any emmigrant.

Just a comment - He might need to stop and think these things through a bit - what kind of life is it knowing that people could come knocking on the door any day looking for you in relation to this ? How could he make plans for his life knowing that or be in any way happy, and ultimately knowing that he has to come back and face the music ? And he'll be cut off from home.

Is it going to be any easier when he's say 24 to face up to this ? If he gets a sentence, then for me, he'll have wasted the years in the UK and the time spent in prison.

sflynn

I think the biggest factor for him is actually going to prison, i don't know but maybe there's other reasons he doesn't want to go there.

He wants to just go. I'm on here to figure out if he's not actually making things worse. How long would it take for the garda to find out where he is and have him arrested? I'm sure it can't be that easy?

Witcher

If he runs it will be worse for him in the long run, he will be caught in the end it's a matter of time really. The conviction for the cannabis should have woken him up, he would be better off just waiting it out, but running isn't the answer.

mathepac

sflynn wrote: »

... could come home after 5 years or so and plead his case that he was mixing with the wrong people ...

I think the expectations need to be more realistic. With possibly multiple drug charges, one for 13 grand's worth of coke, then going on the run, the Guards' case could be that from their perspective he is the wrong people.

Reloc8

Yes it could make things worse :-

One case that comes to mind is DPP v Jason Lynch, Court of Criminal Appeal, 17 November 2008.

Applicant charged with S. 15A (26k value, cocaine, amphetamine). He and co-accused in car in which drugs present. Applicant left jurisdiction, failing to attend court when required. Received 8 year prison sentence. He appealed. Received 5 year sentence.

Co-accused did not leave jurisdiction. Received 5 year prison sentence. Fully suspended and not appealed by the prosecution.

All cases are different. I don't know if your cousin has a chance at a fully suspended sentence. In light of the newer jurisprudence of the court of criminal appeal, he may well do. I do know legging it will not stand him in good stead - sure otherwise everyone would try that.

charlemont

Reloc8 wrote: »

Yes it could make things worse :-

One case that comes to mind is DPP v Jason Lynch, Court of Criminal Appeal, 17 November 2008.

Applicant charged with S. 15A (26k value, cocaine, amphetamine). He and co-accused in car in which drugs present. Applicant left jurisdiction, failing to attend court when required. Received 8 year prison sentence. He appealed. Received 5 year sentence.

Co-accused did not leave jurisdiction. Received 5 year prison sentence. Fully suspended and not appealed by the prosecution.

All cases are different. I don't know if your cousin has a chance at a fully suspended sentence. In light of the newer jurisprudence of the court of criminal appeal, he may well do. I do know legging it will not stand him in good stead - sure otherwise everyone would try that.

My friend actually lived in the neighbouring flat to the above mentioned man, But yes your cousin should stay here as more than likely he will be extradited. He is better off staying here and getting it over and done with, I myself left Ireland over ten years ago while I was on bail but I came back and got it sorted.

theAwakening

penalties generally imposed for drug trafficking offences in ireland are laughable anyway, contrary to the penalties which are in fact legislated for within the relevant Act.

once he / you doesn't accrue any subsequent convictions pending the sentencing date, he / you will likely get a majority / fully suspended sentence. all you require are some polysyllabic words during your mitigation, and the usual; you accumulated a drug debt due to previous event in your life, and were simply storing the cocaine as a way of paying off your dealer.

obtaining a letter to say you popped into Addiction Response a few times to chat to the other dealers who are also there for the purpose of obtaining a letter to hand in during their own upcoming sentencing date, is also a popular one, as it takes the focus off the fact that he / you is a drug dealer as charged, and portrays you instead as, of course, the victim.

god help the irish taxpayer.

sflynn

I know what your all saying makes sense but he has NOT been charged yet, he hasn't been given a court date or anything.

He's pretty much going asap. Can the irish guards extradite him from the uk to charge him?

sflynn

I know what your all saying makes sense but he has NOT been charged yet, he hasn't been given a court date or anything.

He's pretty much going asap. Can the irish guards extradite him from the uk to charge him?

MagicSean

sflynn wrote: »

I know what your all saying makes sense but he has NOT been charged yet, he hasn't been given a court date or anything.

He's pretty much going asap. Can the irish guards extradite him from the uk to charge him?

Yes. And if they do he can probably kiss any chance of bail or a suspended sentence goodbye.

blueythebear

sflynn wrote: »

I know what your all saying makes sense but he has NOT been charged yet, he hasn't been given a court date or anything.

He's pretty much going asap. Can the irish guards extradite him from the uk to charge him?

Yes they can. And they might well do. If I was the investigating Garda, I'd be doing everything I could to extradite a person who leaves the country in such a manner.

Witcher

So he's going to live in exile to escape a charge that will still be waiting here for him? Going by what you told us he has form for this type of thing and will probably fall into the same cycle in the UK, get a conviction there, serve it then be sent back here for the cocaine charge. It's idiotic in the extreme to think this is going to go away, if he is found in the UK..he will be extradited, it's only 40 mins flight away it's hardly the far side of the planet.

ResearchWill

Well if he goes to the UK and gets a national insurance number, he will turn up on the system, if and when the DPP directs an indictment. Then a European arrest warrant will issue from Ireland. He will be arrested in the UK and brought to court, he may or may not get bail, if he does not get bail he will be in a uk prison till the decision is made, more than likely he will be returned to Ireland, where the state will more than likely not consent to bail and more than likely he will not get it, then awaiting in prison till case.

There is a slim chance of no prison time, his age is to his benifit, if he makes serious moves to change his life, he may get no time or small time that's less than 4 years, provided he changes his life.

A good solicitor will advice him on all he needs to do.

BTW if the trip to the UK is to start fresh, and he has good job or study lined up, then he could go to the Guards, explain this, tell them he will give them contact details etc. and will return on all occasions for Court.

But just running off is not going to end well.

Reloc8

sflynn wrote: »

I know what your all saying makes sense but he has NOT been charged yet, he hasn't been given a court date or anything.

He's pretty much going asap. Can the irish guards extradite him from the uk to charge him?

Ah here - its not advice you're looking for, its confirmation/comfort that he'll 'be ok' if (when) he does this. I'm not criticising you - I appreciate you're worried for him.

Anyway, as per previous posts, yes of course they can, (extradite him) and they will.

At which point he will likely have great difficulties getting bail.

At which point he will great difficulty demonstrating any change in his ways/rehabilitation compared to being on bail, because he will not be at liberty.

You've also been shown a case in which the courts differentiated heavily between a person who stayed to face the music and a person who bolted, albeit that the person who bolted was the subject of charge at the time).

He has to make his own decisions - but you couldn't possibly endorse what he's doing on the basis of 'it can't make things any worse'. It very well could.

Zambia

Legal aspect aside at some point he has to face the consequences of his behavior otherwise he is bound to repeat it.

Wild_Dogger

sflynn ...... I sent you a PM .

cheers

Athlone_Bhoy

sflynn wrote: »

Hi folks, after a recent conversation at work i was recommended to join this site in search of some advice.

My cousin, was caught with an amount of cocaine. it was over a bar but i do not know the value. It was however enough to get a section 15a (posession with intent to supply when value exceeded 13000) It carries a mandatory sentence unless the judge sees otherwise.

He was since released without charge although the garda will be back to do so at some stage over the coming months. He has one minor conviction for possesion of cannabis and is most probably going to recieve a sentence.

My question is can my cousin go to the uk for a few years now? He hasn't been charged yet and is afraid of prison. Is he entitled to uk ppsn etc to work? Can the garda charge him whilst being in the uk?

I do expect quite the earful from some members but i'm not going to get an answer unless i ask and i am very worried for my cousin, he is only 19.

Tell him to get clean. Get him to go to his doctor and explain he will get him to meet someone every week give urines.(They need to be clean)

He will be fine. 2 years suspended with probation.

Get him to say he had a drug problem, he couldn't pay the bill so the person asked him to mind the stuff, judge will ask for the guys name tell him he fears for his family life so he can't give the name.

If he is doing something like in college it's a huge help.

amdublin

Athlone_Bhoy wrote: »

.

Get him to say he had a drug problem, he couldn't pay the bill so the person asked him to mind the stuff, judge will ask for the guys name tell him he fears for his family life so he can't give the name.

If he is doing something like in college it's a huge help.

Is this the truth/the actual situation

Why would you tell someone to say this not knowing that this case or not?

Op - your cousin needs to face up to what he did and accept his punishment whether that is prison or a suspended sentence. All this talk of going to the uk is rubbish. You are not helping him with this carry on.

Brady50

I would agree the previous respondent .. your cousin needs to work on getting clean..That will work for him with both the judge and the Garda but more importantly it will help him get his life together.

One thing you have not mentioned is if he does a runner will someone come looking for the money for the lost stash ??

Doing a runner is not going to make things any easier .. he has to face some harsh facts of life , but if he now takes stock and tackles his issues he will get past it.

Get treatment . Get a good solicitor and show everyone that this was a life changing mistake..

Pkiernan

blueythebear wrote: »

Yes they can. And they might well do. If I was the investigating Garda, I'd be doing everything I could to extradite a person who leaves the country in such a manner.

Why??

If a Guard is so sure as to guilt, then charge the suspected offender.

OP, if I were in his shoes, I'd leave; get a job, straighten up etc. Then return to face any charges levelled.

ResearchWill

Pkiernan wrote: »

Why??

If a Guard is so sure as to guilt, then charge the suspected offender.

OP, if I were in his shoes, I'd leave; get a job, straighten up etc. Then return to face any charges levelled.

It is the DPP who decides to charge on a 15a, the Garda, by sending a file has indicated his more than likely belief that the person is guilty.

benway

Running is a terrible idea - a European Arrest Warrant WILL catch up with you. I've seen quite a few immigrants here being caught with old assault/robbery/drugs charges ... often it's people in their 40s being done for offences committed in their teens.

Best thing would be to prepare to face the charges here - as previous posters have said, get clean, get into education/training/work, stop associating with anyone who's involved with drugs.