Stupid Question

Irishchick

I have a silly question but it is really bugging me so maybe someone here can answer it

Who wrote the old testament? Seen as its before the coming of Christ who were the witnesses to the acts in the old testament.

Also I was reading the thread "shocking quotes from the bible" on the atheist forum and I was wondering. Why is the god of the old testament so vengeful and violent and the god after the coming of Christ loving and forgiving??

Why the big change?? Surely if god is a powerful "being" (cant think of a different word) his intentions would remain the same for all time as he doesn't have a mind to change..or can he even have intentions?... I'm even more confused now...

homer911

Irishchick wrote: »

Who wrote the old testament? Seen as its before the coming of Christ who were the witnesses to the acts in the old testament.

Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy - Moses

Joshua mainly by Joshua with later edits by an unknown author/s

Judges, Ruth, 1 Samuel by Samuel

2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Chronicles - anonymous but possibly Ezra;

Ezra by Ezra

1 and 2 Kings unknown but possibly by Jeremiah

Nehemiah by Nehemiah

Esther - unknown but possibly by Mordecai or Ezra

Job - unknown but possibly by Job or edited by Moses

Psalms - 73 by David plus two more ascribed to him in the New Testament, 12 to Asaph, 10 Sons of Korah, and one each to Solomon, Moses, Heman, and Ethan, while 50 are anonymous but some are ascribed to Ezra by tradition.

Proverbs written or collected by Solomon, and the last two chapters by Agur and Lemuel.

Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon - by Solomon

Isaiah by Isaiah

Jeremiah and Lamentations by Jeremiah

Ezekiel by Ezekiel

Daniel by Daniel

Hosea by Hosea

Joel by Joel

Amos by Amos

Obadiah by Obadiah

Jonah by Jonah

Micah by Micah

Nahum by Nahum

Habakkuk by Habakkuk

Zephaniah by Zephaniah

Haggai by Haggai

Zechariah by Zechariah

Malachi by Malachi


Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_wrote_the_Old_Testament#ixzz1jGS8MAMo

Irishchick

So if Genesis is attributed to Moses why do we not follow the old testament which is known to be the word of god??

bonniebede

Irishchick wrote: »

So if Genesis is attributed to Moses why do we not follow the old testament which is known to be the word of god??

not sure who 'we' is to you:) but we do, (that being me and other catholics).

However, the bible is not like a washing machine instruction manual where every page is of equal weight.

The Bible tells the story of God revealing himself through a relationship with his people, and it is a gradual process, which is not complete until Jesus comes, when God (we believe) finally was here present himself.

It is like a good romance. You wouldn't ask why the couple aren't sleeping to gether in page 1, when you know its the story of how they meet, fall in love, go through ups and downs and finally get married.... so it's not a big surprise that the bedroom seen is not till the end.

Secondly, people who do not understand the progressive nature of this revelation, (like R.Dawkins, for example, God bless him,) will often come out with the sort of , well if you believe in the Bible you should do this...cue some rule from the OT like not eating shellfish of wearing clothes with mixed fibres.

We have no problem understanding that some rules or laws in the Old Testament, the time before Jesus were temporary, part of helping the Jewish people remain focussed on their heritage as Gods people, and now that God's people is meant to be everyone of all nations, these are not needed anymore to help set Gods people apart from other nations.

But other rules and laws, like not murdering or committing adultery are laws which come from the very nature of God and human beings, like if you really understood that God is love and we are made in Gods image, then it would be clear why murder is always and everywhere wrong.

Jesus did not do away with these laws as he did with the others, infact he made them stronger. For example he said that not only were you not to kill, but not to be violent of abusive even to your enemies. He takes the OT teachings up a notch.

So we do follow the old Testament, but in a way which does justice to what it is, which is a gradual revelation, not a straightforward instruction manual.

bonniebede

Good question by the way, made me think:)

MyKeyG

Irishchick wrote: »

So if Genesis is attributed to Moses why do we not follow the old testament which is known to be the word of god??

The old testament deals with the choosing of the nation of Israel as gods people through which he would provide his messiah by means of a promise or covenant. This nation of Israel followed the mosaic law. When the Jews rejected Christ as the messiah the nation of Israel fell out of favour as gods chosen people as signified by the miraculous tearing in two of the curtain separating the most holy of the tabernacle.

While Christians follow the teachings of Christ in the new testament as opposed to a regulated law there are a few who observe the practical principles of the mosaic law even though not follow stringently. I can't speak for all Christian sects.

Irishchick

bonniebede wrote: »

not sure who 'we' is to you:) but we do, (that being me and other catholics).

However, the bible is not like a washing machine instruction manual where every page is of equal weight.

The Bible tells the story of God revealing himself through a relationship with his people, and it is a gradual process, which is not complete until Jesus comes, when God (we believe) finally was here present himself.

It is like a good romance. You wouldn't ask why the couple aren't sleeping to gether in page 1, when you know its the story of how they meet, fall in love, go through ups and downs and finally get married.... so it's not a big surprise that the bedroom seen is not till the end.

Secondly, people who do not understand the progressive nature of this revelation, (like R.Dawkins, for example, God bless him,) will often come out with the sort of , well if you believe in the Bible you should do this...cue some rule from the OT like not eating shellfish of wearing clothes with mixed fibres.

We have no problem understanding that some rules or laws in the Old Testament, the time before Jesus were temporary, part of helping the Jewish people remain focussed on their heritage as Gods people, and now that God's people is meant to be everyone of all nations, these are not needed anymore to help set Gods people apart from other nations.

But other rules and laws, like not murdering or committing adultery are laws which come from the very nature of God and human beings, like if you really understood that God is love and we are made in Gods image, then it would be clear why murder is always and everywhere wrong.

Jesus did not do away with these laws as he did with the others, infact he made them stronger. For example he said that not only were you not to kill, but not to be violent of abusive even to your enemies. He takes the OT teachings up a notch.

So we do follow the old Testament, but in a way which does justice to what it is, which is a gradual revelation, not a straightforward instruction manual.

Thanks, great answer.

What still confuses me, and there probably is No answer to this (its sort of a meaning of life question) is why did God feel the need to create man.

I always wonder why such a deity would want/need to create something in its image.

Also who "created" Satan. Is Satan a "thing" or an embodiment of sin that was created along with the first sin?

Edit: by "we" I mean Catholics...should have mentioned that first.

MyKeyG

Irishchick wrote: »

Thanks, great answer.

What still confuses me, and there probably is No answer to this (its sort of a meaning of life question) is why did God feel the need to create man.

I always wonder why such a deity would want/need to create something in its image.

Also who "created" Satan. Is Satan a "thing" or an embodiment of sin that was created along with the first sin?

Edit: by "we" I mean Catholics...should have mentioned that first.

Satan is a rebellious angel that was once loyal to god but later challenged his authority.

PDN

Irishchick wrote: »

Thanks, great answer.

What still confuses me, and there probably is No answer to this (its sort of a meaning of life question) is why did God feel the need to create man.

I always wonder why such a deity would want/need to create something in its image.

I think 'need' is the wrong word. According to Christian theology God is self-sufficient and doesn't need anything.

But as to why He wanted to create man - it would seem to me that the gift of being able to give and receive love is so great, that God wished to create others who could enjoy love.

Onesimus

IrishChick. The God of the Old Testament is loving and forgiving also. We see this love right at the beginning of the story of Creation were Adam and Eve after they disobey God, God promises them a New Adam ( Jesus ) and a New Eve ( St.Mary ) and lets them live. Later on he takes mercy upon the line of Cain and lets him live after killing abel.

Another example is how he split the red sea to save his people. He forgave King David for his adultery and so on.

These are just some miniscule examples of Gods mercy in the OT that many of those atheists overlook and focus more on Gods Justice within the Bible.

We must remember that God is just not a bigger version of us Humans with the same emotional feelings to sin such as hatred. He is an all supreme being that surpasses our knowledge and is pure undiluted love. He created life, and he has the right to take that life away.

Gods Justice is just as great as his mercy.

I hope this helps.

Onesimus

Fanny Cradock

Irishchick wrote: »

I have a silly question but it is really bugging me so maybe someone here can answer it

Who wrote the old testament? Seen as its before the coming of Christ who were the witnesses to the acts in the old testament.

Also I was reading the thread "shocking quotes from the bible" on the atheist forum and I was wondering. Why is the god of the old testament so vengeful and violent and the god after the coming of Christ loving and forgiving??

Why the big change?? Surely if god is a powerful "being" (cant think of a different word) his intentions would remain the same for all time as he doesn't have a mind to change..or can he even have intentions?... I'm even more confused now...

It's really very difficult to know who wrote certain books of the Bible. For example, the Pentateuch (first 5 books of the OT) - also know as the Torah - is traditionally ascribed to Moses. However, Deuteronomy also records the death of Moses and the subsequent 30 days of grieving.

As for the apparent disconnect between the God in the OT and Jesus in the NT, well, I suggest that people haven't being paying attention to either sections of the Bible.

Firstly, while it might be considered sport by some atheists to quote only those difficult and disturbing texts - ones about dashing children against rocks and the like - God in the OT is often concerned with the plight of the poor and the needy. In large parts the OT is a love story between God and his chosen people, the Israelites, who were chosen to be a light onto a world condemned. Secondly, while Jesus may have done many miracles, he also spent a great deal of his time talking about damnation and being refreshingly rude to the religious authorities.

In both OT and NT I think that God is working towards a goal - the redemption of all creation. However, he works towards this goal though history and through people - often in the face of opposition. It simply doesn't do the Bible justice to say that God the Father is an angry tyrant and (Buddy) Jesus is his meek and mild son.

If you want to know more about a very complex story then I would recommend this excellent audio/ visual series by D.A. Carson.

Slav

Irishchick wrote: »

Also I was reading the thread "shocking quotes from the bible" on the atheist forum and I was wondering. Why is the god of the old testament so vengeful and violent and the god after the coming of Christ loving and forgiving??

Why the big change?? Surely if god is a powerful "being" (cant think of a different word) his intentions would remain the same for all time as he doesn't have a mind to change..or can he even have intentions?... I'm even more confused now...

If Adam and Eve sinned and God has a plan for the salvation why did not He incarnate straight away? Why the first child of Eve was Cain and not Christ? Why all the generations had to pass before finally a Jewish girl conceived the Word incarnated? I think the answer to this answers why there were so much violence in Old Testament. In short, without things like the Flood and other nasty things there would not be a nation that could give birth to that girl and her cousin's son John and others.

If you want you can check a podcast War and Violence in the Old Testament which addresses the question in details. It's not Catholic though but close enough.

Irishchick wrote: »

What still confuses me, and there probably is No answer to this (its sort of a meaning of life question) is why did God feel the need to create man.

I always wonder why such a deity would want/need to create something in its image.

Because the creation is meant to be good. The creation would not be complete without bearing an image of God and enjoying the ultimate freedom of will.

Also who "created" Satan. Is Satan a "thing" or an embodiment of sin that was created along with the first sin?

It's important what the Bible says and it's equally important what it does not say. The history of creation in Genesis does not contain the story of creating of angels, the fall of the 1/3 of them and so on; nor do we have it in the rest of the Bible - only brief references to it. Bible is very (and even exclusively) anthropocentric book and for a good reason I think. One can certainly think of Satan as of a creature and personalised Evil or just as a Potentiality before the Fall which became the Actuality after it but in any case it does not change or expand in any way the meaning of the Gospel.

Onesimus

Slav I listened to that podcast in full ( which is an hour long ) and really enjoyed it. I think it's possible that it's a ....tad...too...much on the academic side for the OP but if the OP listens intently she will get a greater understanding upon the God of the Old Testament, read from a Christian point of view rather than the shallow and often narrow minded one of the Atheist/Agnostic.

ISAW

Irishchick wrote: »

Who wrote the old testament?

Just to fill in what others stated.

As far as i know Job is the oldest book in the Bible, written around 1500BC
http://bibleresources.bible.com/afacts.php

Given the Balaam's Ass thread reference to Numbers - there are/were other books
Numbers 21:14 Refers to The Book of the Wars of the Lord
Joshua 10:13 and 2Samuel 1:18 refer to the book of Jashar
There are also references to prophets like Gad, Ahijah and Shemilachshar but no writings from them and to the book of the Kings of Israel 1Chronicales 9:1

In the new testament people argue about what goes into and stays out of the Canon so you have both Non canonical and Apocryphal books such as the Gospel of Thomas.

Irishchick

Thanks for all the reply's.

Does the bible contain any description of what an angel is. When people here the word angel they picture a human dressed in white robes with wings and a halo.

Onesimus

Irishchick wrote: »

Thanks for all the reply's.

Does the bible contain any description of what an angel is. When people here the word angel they picture a human dressed in white robes with wings and a halo.

An Angel is pure spirit. ''Angel'' denotes it's office in the Church and ''Spirit'' denotes its nature. Angels can show themselves to humans as humans but whether or not thats how they really look ''wings and halo'' in heaven is another ball game altogether. I dont really know anymore than that. Hopefully someone more witty on the forum here can help you out but consider the following link for now:

Cathecism of the Catholic Church on Angels