Fake number plate?

fergusb

I was driving home yesterday evening and was sitting behind a car with a reg place like:
10 D 120XXX (don't want to list the full reg).

Was surprised as thought in 2010 the car sales were well down so wouldn't reach 120,000, The car itself was a modern people carrier, and from a search on cartell.ie didn't return any results.

Does anyone know if over 120,000 cars were sold in Dublin in 2010? or is there any other way to get a reg number that high?

Foxhole Norman

Might be an Import. Imports are typically given a high number plate reg.

R.O.R

Cars registered in Dublin at the end of 2010 - 36770

Probably a few imports since then, but won't be anywhere near 120,000.

MugMugs

I imported last year on a 08 and its seventy four thousand. Assume 08 was better than .10 as the recession wasn't seen to be as bad and no Austerity.

furtzy

fergusb wrote: »

I was driving home yesterday evening and was sitting behind a car with a reg place like:
10 D 120XXX (don't want to list the full reg).

Was surprised as thought in 2010 the car sales were well down so wouldn't reach 120,000, The car itself was a modern people carrier, and from a search on cartell.ie didn't return any results.

Does anyone know if over 120,000 cars were sold in Dublin in 2010? or is there any other way to get a reg number that high?

Check the reg on www.motorcheck.ie and see what comes back

fergusb

furtzy wrote: »

Check the reg on www.motorcheck.ie and see what comes back

Just tried that and it returned:
"Sorry, the Nation Irish and National UK database of vehicle registrations do not contain any record of the registration number XXXXX, You may have entered it incorrectly please try again"

cjt156

I believe 2000 was the only year where Dublin registrations passed the 100k mark. I had a 00-D-104XXX company car registered in December.
No chance that plate was legit; are you sure your eyes didn't deceive you?

fergusb

cjt156 wrote: »

I believe 2000 was the only year where Dublin registrations passed the 100k mark. I had a 00-D-104XXX company car registered in December.
No chance that plate was legit; are you sure your eyes didn't deceive you?

Yup positive, was sitting behind it at traffic lights and did check the number a few times, and even count the numbers, Was going to take a photo then the lights turned green.

MrFoxman360

Yep, its an import, the rules and procedures changed about a month ago and now the reg on any Dublin registered import starts from 120001

Some info on it in a thread in the Classic car fourm

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056460411&page=2

YouTookMyName

I've seen 08-MO-10023 98-MO-10001 10-MO-10003 in the past week, none on motorcheck.

5 digits look a bit daft.

paddydriver

Saw a taxi on this last week and thought odd too - attached a pic below.

corktina

plenty of room for another couple of digits yet....:D

Atlantic Dawn

I spotted imported Honda mpv of some kind last week with a 05D12xxxx plate on it, strange as 05 Dublin hasn't broke 100k yet. Could be honest mistake, toll avoidance or amateur thief not up to date on number plates.

cjt156

MrFoxman360 wrote: »

Yep, its an import, the rules and procedures changed about a month ago and now the reg on any Dublin registered import starts from 120001

Ahh...explains it. Stupid system though, why not just give them the next available number?

inforfun

Well, now at least you know immediately you deal with an import if you are looking for a car.

Guy:Incognito

Who came up with that stupid idea? So now we have huge gaps of 50-60k reg numbers for no reason. Brilliant.

We have a simple reg system that works because its simple. Now idiots are dicking around with it. Whats the bets within 5 or 10 years we have a stupid convoluted system thats complicated just for the sake of being complicated. Jesus start fixing the things that are wrong and leave the good stuff alone.

Mr Magners

Thats funny, i was just on Cartell looking up 09 TS 80XX, a white Audi A4, passed it on the N7 yesterday. I presume its for the same reasons as stated here. Thought it was very suspicious at the time.

JJJJNR

Think its a great idea.

ION08

This is absolutely ridiculous, what exactly is the point of this other than to point the finger at an imported car.

SIMI conspiracy i think

corktina

i thought all cars were imported...

ION08

corktina wrote: »

i thought all cars were imported...

Exatly , so why the need to point fingers at cars that have been bought abroad an imported into ireland as opposed to having officialy imported by Dealers.

This serves no purpose other than to segregate original imports and "imports"

ION08

This seems to me like a blatant attempt by the Govt. and SIMI to essentially black-mark imports by making them instantly recognisable and thus discourage people from sourcing uk cars that 90% of the time are better specced and better maintained than their "Irish" counterparts.

The Reg plates numbers themselves don't bother me, its the idea behind them.

Vertakill

ION08 wrote: »

Exatly , so why the need to point fingers at cars that have been bought abroad an imported into ireland as opposed to having officialy imported by Dealers.

This serves no purpose other than to segregate original imports and "imports"

I don't know about you, but I like to know if my car has been imported so that I know to check the underside of it to see if it's been rotting away from being in England for too long.
I also like to know if there's another form of check that I need to do to ensure it hasn't been crashed or clocked in a different country, despite it having a clean bill of health over here according to our car checks.


With that being said, 2 of the 4 cars I've owned have been imported.

Yakuza

Presumably a new car imported privately or at least one first registered in the current year will get the next consecutive number from the same list as a new one bought straight from a dealer, and that this (odd) system only applies to cars from years prior to the current year?

It was always relatively easy enough to spot imports anyway - MPH in the speedo or perhaps the UK reg etched into the glass, but now you can just do it by looking at the reg.

inforfun

ION08 wrote: »

This seems to me like a blatant attempt by the Govt. and SIMI to essentially black-mark imports by making them instantly recognisable and thus discourage people from sourcing uk cars that 90% of the time are better specced and better maintained than their "Irish" counterparts.

The Reg plates numbers themselves don't bother me, its the idea behind them.

You can look at it in 2 ways. If you are specifically looking for an import, you ll see it in seconds.
If you want to avoid them at all cost, you can also see it in seconds.

I really dont see how this system make the government evil, black marking bastards.
They have successfully done that already in many other ways

ION08

Vertakill wrote: »

I don't know about you, but I like to know if my car has been imported so that I know to check the underside of it to see if it's been rotting away from being in England for too long.
I also like to know if there's another form of check that I need to do to ensure it hasn't been crashed or clocked in a different country, despite it having a clean bill of health over here according to our car checks.


With that being said, 2 of the 4 cars I've owned have been imported.

Without sounding smart, but did checking the log book ever cross your mind?

ION08

inforfun wrote: »

You can look at it in 2 ways. If you are specifically looking for an import, you ll see it in seconds.
If you want to avoid them at all cost, you can also see it in seconds.

I really dont see how this system make the government evil, black marking bastards.
They have successfully done that already in many other ways

Thats a good point. But trust me, the governments motives are always of the ulterior variety :pac:

Atlantic Dawn

What a stupid idiotic thing to do, now it's impossible to know what pre 2012 is an import and what's not. All they needed to do was list the cut off points on a website for each county and it would be easy to know. What's going to happen in say Leitrim now, will they also go 6 digit? Sounds like a SIMI idea to negatively mark future imports but it infact cleans all existing imports in the process as people will assume imports are only cars over 120,000 are imports.

corktina

Vertakill wrote: »

I don't know about you, but I like to know if my car has been imported so that I know to check the underside of it to see if it's been rotting away from being in England for too long.
I also like to know if there's another form of check that I need to do to ensure it hasn't been crashed or clocked in a different country, despite it having a clean bill of health over here according to our car checks.


With that being said, 2 of the 4 cars I've owned have been imported.

thats old hat...we use salt on the roads now as well. UK cars are often better specced and are most definately better lokked after.

Atlantic Dawn

ION08 wrote: »

This serves no purpose other than to segregate original imports and "imports"

But the problem is it doesn't even achieve this as all cars pre 2012 will now have a mixture of those before they came up with this new idea and those after so the consumer will not have a clue looking at those pre 120k numbers, serves no useful purpose at all. Outside Dublin are they going to pick numbers out of the sky as to where they will start or will it be 120k for all counties even those that don't normally register over 5,000 new vehicles in a year.

The harm is now done and there's no going back. What I think was a good logical system of vehicle registration is now ruined, complete muppets :mad:

Vikings

inforfun wrote: »

Well, now at least you know immediately you deal with an import if you are looking for a car.

Why not just stick an i at the end of an imports reg... seems to work for most things!

ION08

So what exactly does this stupid system achieve?...

Ruin a perfectly logical system

Unfairly stigmatise imports further

Make regs harder to remember

Confuse people not in tune with the motor industry into thinking you're driving around on "Fake number plates"


... Absolute Idiots

SerialComplaint

Is there a chance that anyone might spend ten minutes speaking to Dept Transport or Dept Environment to find out the reasons for this change, before they rush to judgement?

Atlantic Dawn

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Is there a chance that anyone might spend ten minutes speaking to Dept Transport or Dept Environment to find out the reasons for this change, before they rush to judgement?

I think it's a bit late now, they should have had a consultation process with the industry and public prior to this change, it's really ruined the whole system and most people will be reporting 120xxx cars to the Gardaí as false plates, I was about to do it last week when I spotted it.

Mr Magners

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

But the problem is it doesn't even achieve this as all cars pre 2012 will now have a mixture of those before they came up with this new idea and those after so the consumer will not have a clue looking at those pre 120k numbers, serves no useful purpose at all. Outside Dublin are they going to pick numbers out of the sky as to where they will start or will it be 120k for all counties even those that don't normally register over 5,000 new vehicles in a year.

The harm is now done and there's no going back. What I think was a good logical system of vehicle registration is now ruined, complete muppets :mad:

They've started South Tipp at 8000. Saw another one today 06 TS 80XX.

carchaeologist

SerialComplaint wrote: »

Is there a chance that anyone might spend ten minutes speaking to Dept Transport or Dept Environment to find out the reasons for this change, before they rush to judgement?

Dont bother, they will tell you nothing.

SerialComplaint

carchaeologist wrote: »

Dont bother, they will tell you nothing.

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I think it's a bit late now, they should have had a consultation process with the industry and public prior to this change, it's really ruined the whole system and most people will be reporting 120xxx cars to the Gardaí as false plates, I was about to do it last week when I spotted it.

So I guess that's a 'No' then. People prefer to moan in a vacuum that have some actual facts to deal with. Fair enough then.

carchaeologist

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Who came up with that stupid idea? So now we have huge gaps of 50-60k reg numbers for no reason. Brilliant.

We have a simple reg system that works because its simple. Now idiots are dicking around with it. Whats the bets within 5 or 10 years we have a stupid convoluted system thats complicated just for the sake of being complicated. Jesus start fixing the things that are wrong and leave the good stuff alone.

They have been dicking around with the system for years!!!:rolleyes:

The original system started at #1 and worked up in each year from 1987 when it was introduced, then when the next year started the import cars continued on the series of the previous year. Simple and effective yes? Of course it was, and thats not good enough for the muppets in charge in this country!!!:mad:

But....

In 1993 when the old taxbooks were discontinued, things went computerised and the simple registration sheet was introduced, pre approx 1962 import non ZV regs jumped to #20 regardless of what number they had reached before that. This is why at classic shows you will see most older cars with #20 and upwards registrations, say 45D20, 45D21.
There are of course exceptons to this rule such as 14C14, where the registration was allocated out of any sequence, due to someone knowing someone in the inside.;)

Post approx 1962 to approx 1982 the import regs in most counties jumped to #500, regardless of where they had been before this, but not all counties did the same, some jumped to different numbers, there was no obvious pattern. Most jumped to 500 though. You will notice cars from this era that dont have ZV plates will nearly always have registrations over 500, say 66D501.

Post 1993 new cars started each years new allocations at #201 in every county, the lower numbers below this were kept over for sale, then costing approx £350.

Since the changes on 05/12/11 the registration series now starts at #1 and up, but you can still prebook a registration(from the 1st November in the preceding year)for 1000eu, this charge having spectacularly increased form 350eu some years ago.

Though if you prebook a number from 2012 onwards, it will be impossible to tell to the observer if it was a prebooked registration or not, previously if you saw a reg that was below 200, you could be sure someone had paid for it.

If you imported, say, a 09 car in 2010, you could buy one of the unallocated regs under 200 from the 09 series and put it on your 2009 import. This practice has been stopped now since the new system post 05/12/11.

This year it appears the #13(as in 12D13)has not been issued in any county. If anyone knows differently please let me know. What will happen next year!? I wonder was this the case pre 1993 when the issues also started at #1?

The ZV plate system was introduced in 1993 as a series for vehicles older than 30 years old as an age related series. This was an unused Dublin series from the 80s being ZV and four numbers(ZV1234) aping the previous series' in this country. When the ZV series was almost used up, instead of using another unissued pre 1987 series of which there was a few, they just tacked on an extra digit(ZV12345) which looks wrong, is difficult to space authentically and does not compare to any previous pre 1987 issue in Ireland.
Its just typical of the indifference of the people who are supposedly in charge of these things that this sort of stuff happens. Again there was no consultation on the ZV issue.

Got all that? :pTheres probably some stuff i have forgotten, but thats the gist of it.

Kxiii

carchaeologist wrote: »

There are of course exceptons to this rule such as 14C14,......

I know this is a long shot but what if someone imports something like this1912 renault would they get a 12 reg?

carchaeologist

Kxiii wrote: »

I know this is a long shot but what if someone imports something like this1912 renault would they get a 12 reg?

If in Dublin they will get 12D120001, as its of the import series. Or you have the ZV option which will be a ZV plate over ZV10001.
Either option is not historically correct.:mad:

David09

My guess is that it's an simi \ government conspiracy.

Suppose someone goes to trade in an imported car in a main simi dealers. Instantly it will be devalued as an import and not classed as being worth as much as a similar Irish car.

carchaeologist

David09 wrote: »

My guess is that it's an simi \ government conspiracy.

Suppose someone goes to trade in an imported car in a main simi dealers. Instantly it will be devalued as an import and not classed as being worth as much as a similar Irish car.

This is it in a nutshell. Its all down to money.

Yakuza

But anyone in "de trayad" will know an import whether it be on the previous system of registrations or the new one, so it's a moot point. Still, as a numbers person, the discontinuity in the numbering system bugs me.

David09

If it's true, then how come SIMI have the power to throw so much punch?

At risk of going a little o/t, we all know that SIMI are a union body of car retailers. We do not manufacture cars here in Ireland and thus have no indigenous motor "industry" as such.

David09

Yakuza wrote: »

But anyone in "de trayad" will know an import whether it be on the previous system of registrations or the new one, so it's a moot point. Still, as a numbers person, the discontinuity in the numbering system bugs me.

Yes, but now imports will stand out like a sore thumb. In the eyes of the "average" buyer they could be seen as some way inferior to original Irish reg'd cars. A situation that vested commercial interests would quite like.

eth0

David09 wrote: »

My guess is that it's an simi \ government conspiracy.

Suppose someone goes to trade in an imported car in a main simi dealers. Instantly it will be devalued as an import and not classed as being worth as much as a similar Irish car.

Why don't they get rid of the numbered reg plates for imports and replace it with one that just says "I'm a tightarse traitor for not supporting the Irish car dealers"?

And give everyone else D regs. Scrap all the other counties cause D regs are more desirable (don't know why) and everyone gets a random number

Don't bother with the year either replace it with 4 random digits you change every month, that way you get a sales peak every month and they sell 12 times as many cars! SIMI happy

macplaxton

SerialComplaint wrote: »

So I guess that's a 'No' then. People prefer to moan in a vacuum that have some actual facts to deal with. Fair enough then.

I did speak for at least ten minutes with someone from the CVO. Didn't get a straight answer either.

I can only assume therefore that it might have something to do with identifying secondary imports and the proposed VRT rebate scheme for permanent exports announce in the budget

These changes came into effect 5th December 2011.

Can anyone tell me the new starting numbers for:

Donegal (estimated at around 13001, but it might be higher)
Galway (estimated at around 17001, but it might be higher)

Please keep 'em peeled and report back.

C|Cork|40001|
CE|Clare|9001|
CN|Cavan|6001|
CW|Carlow|5001|
D|Dublin|120001|
DL|Donegal|???|est 13001
G|Galway|???|est 17001
KE|Kildare|16001|
KK|Kilkenny|8001|
KY|Kerry|10001|
L|Limerick City|6001|
LK|County Limerick|11001|
LD|Longford|4001 |
LH|Louth|11001|
LM|Leitrim|3001|
LS|Laois|6001|
MH|Meath|15001|
MN|Monaghan|6001|
MO|Mayo|10001|
OY|Offaly|7001|
RN|Roscommon|6001|
SO|Sligo|7001|
TN|Tipperary North|6001|
TS|Tipperary South|8001|
W|Waterford City|7001|
WD|County Waterford|6001|
WH|Westmeath|8001|
WX|Wexford|11001|
WW|Wicklow|11001|

dahamsta

I'd love to know who made this decision, and what their justification was for it.

Atlantic Dawn

eth0 wrote: »

David09 wrote: »

Why don't they get rid of the numbered reg plates for imports and replace it with one that just says "I'm a tightarse traitor for not supporting the Irish car dealers"?

They could have done this if it was put in place for 2012 registered imports onwards but what they have done is ruin it all so nobody pre 2012 knows by numbering what is and isn't an import on cars pre 120k.

CJhaughey

I think that this is actually a question for your local TD.
Make enough noise and this scam can be shown up for what it is.

SerialComplaint

dahamsta wrote: »

I'd love to know who made this decision, and what their justification was for it.

So go digging - call your TD or the Minister or Joe Duffy or whoever.