Pedophilia classed as a disability in Greece.??

thebullkf

Sweet jesus...

The Labor Ministry said categories added to the expanded list - that also includes pyromaniacs, compulsive gamblers, fetishists and sadomasochists - were included for purposes of medical assessment

The National Confederation of Disabled People called the action "incomprehensible," and said pedophiles are now awarded a higher government disability pay than some people who have received organ transplants.

Any thoughts on this....

But NCDP leader Yiannis Vardakastanis, who is blind, warned the new list could create new difficulties for disabled Greeks who are already facing benefit cuts due to the country's financial crisis.

Links: http://www.mail.com/int/news/europe/960120-furor-greece-pedophilia-disability.html#.2396-stage-teaser1-16


http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/pedophilia-a-disability-greece-uproar-allowing-pedophiles-kleptomaniacs-special-status-article-1.1004112?localLinksEnabled=false

Logical Fallacy

It's more "deviant" than "disability" I reckon.

FatherLen

idiots

MungBean

May as well give them a sticker for the disabled spots outside school while they are at it.

CliffHuxtabel

-'Sir, are you aware you parked in a disabled space?'

-'I'm a paedo'

-'Carry on'

dsmythy

Greece in pissing money away shocker.

MagicSean

Most people will say that paedophiles cannot change or be rehabilitated. But if that really is the case then is it not a disability? If it isn't a matter of choice and cannot be changed then is it fair to blame them? Should it be classes as a mental health problem like an addiction?

I'm referring only to the attraction to children and not to the actual acting on it which is a choice.

Hande hoche!

Fecking Greeks etc. etc.

JerryHandbag

The Greeks. A ****ing mad bunch of lads.

And they invented gayness

Sindri

Can they take part in the Special Olympics.

That would be a brilliant event.

And the gold medal for feeling up children goes to...

My name is URL

It's definitely a disorder of sorts. It's recognised by the leading diagnostic manuals as an actual condition.

I think it's important to note that the term "pedophillia" is usually attributed to the underlying urge rather than the act of harming a child, or acting out on the desire to do so.

Is it not better to accept that some people may exhibit such tendencies than to sweep the issue under some rug which is ever only lifted after the horrid act is done? The point, as far as I can see, is to help persuade those inflicted to seek help before it manifests into a something greater.

Logical Fallacy

Sindri wrote: »

Can they take part in the Special Olympics.

That would be a brilliant event.

And the gold medal for feeling up children goes to...

"It was a tough training camp for this event...I had cramps in my fingers from cupping nutsack...but it all paid off".

leggo

MagicSean wrote: »

Most people will say that paedophiles cannot change or be rehabilitated. But if that really is the case then is it not a disability? If it isn't a matter of choice and cannot be changed then is it fair to blame them? Should it be classes as a mental health problem like an addiction?

I'm referring only to the attraction to children and not to the actual acting on it which is a choice.

I don't think enough research into the area has been done to sufficiently say otherwise. We have a very 'lock 'em in jail and throw away the key' attitude towards it...which, while understandable, doesn't really do anything about the problem except pretend it doesn't exist.

However, allowing them to sign up for disability benefits (Pedophilia for Profit?), is just a radical move in the wrong direction completely. Unless it's a very shrewd way of catching them...like as soon as they tick the 'Yes' box to the 'Are You A Pedophile?' question on their benefit application, a loud alarm goes off and they are swarmed by a SWAT team who bring them into custody. The latter seems unlikely though.

Sindri

Maybe it's a way to document who actually is a paedophile.

MagicSean

leggo wrote: »

I don't think enough research into the area has been done to sufficiently say otherwise. We have a very 'lock 'em in jail and throw away the key' attitude towards it...which, while understandable, doesn't really do anything about the problem except pretend it doesn't exist.

However, allowing them to sign up for disability benefits (Pedophilia for Profit?), is just a radical move in the wrong direction completely. Unless it's a very shrewd way of catching them...like as soon as they tick the 'Yes' box to the 'Are You A Pedophile?' question on their benefit application, a loud alarm goes off and they are swarmed by a SWAT team who bring them into custody. The latter seems unlikely though.

But lets say you have a man who is attracted to children but has never acted on the urge. There is clearly something wrong with him but he hasn't done anything wrong. Would you not prefer he declare his disability and get a small weekly payment instead of ending up working in a school or hospital?

leggo

MagicSean wrote: »

But lets say you have a man who is attracted to children but has never acted on the urge. There is clearly something wrong with him but he hasn't done anything wrong. Would you not prefer he declare his disability and get a small weekly payment instead of ending up working in a school or hospital?

I would prefer he would be treated for this illness, if possible, or at least removed from society until he was deemed cured...rather than financially rewarded for it.

RichieC

IF a paedophile goes to the doctors young and confesses he has certain urges he cant control *before* he does anything to children then I think they deserve all the help they can get. once they cross the Rubicon I say cut their balls off and then give them disability, in prison.

Temptamperu

Sindri wrote: »

Maybe it's a way to document who actually is a paedophile.

I thought they kept that document in Rome :pac:

MagicSean

leggo wrote: »

I would prefer he would be treated for this illness, if possible, or at least removed from society until he was deemed cured...rather than financially rewarded for it.

Disability payments are hardly financially rewarding. They are barely enough to get by. And we're back to the same question. Can a paedophile be cured?

MungBean

MagicSean wrote: »

But lets say you have a man who is attracted to children but has never acted on the urge. There is clearly something wrong with him but he hasn't done anything wrong. Would you not prefer he declare his disability and get a small weekly payment instead of ending up working in a school or hospital?

Is he going to declare it though ? Or is he more likely to carry on with his life and either take it to his grave or act on it and do harm regardless ?

I dont think many will self register themselves as paedos and labelling them disabled will benefit those who will act on it more than those who wont.

Sindri

Temptamperu wrote: »

I thought they kept that document in Rome :pac:

Ah yes, but most Greeks are Greek Orthodox.

Dudess

I don't know whether it should be classified as a disability, but a person hardly chooses to fancy children (as opposed to acting on it, which is obviously a choice).

Sindri

Can you be a paedophile if you are a child?

thebullkf

dsmythy wrote: »

Greece in pissing money away shocker.

thanks for your thoughts.

histories

I hate the thought that it would be classed as a disorder, it feels like it is giving them a cop out. A part of me feels that when people class it as such or seek to class it as such they do so more out of a sense of repulsion along the lines of "it is so horrific there has to be something wrong with them". I hate that attitude of "oh they can't help themselves".

Personally, I don't believe it is a disorder or addiction or anything other than the way they get sexual pleasure and they act on their desire because they chose to not because they are unable to stop themselves.

thebullkf

MagicSean wrote: »

But lets say you have a man who is attracted to children but has never acted on the urge. There is clearly something wrong with him but he hasn't done anything wrong. Would you not prefer he declare his disability and get a small weekly payment instead of ending up working in a school or hospital?

but is paying someone normalising it...?

leggo

MagicSean wrote: »

Disability payments are hardly financially rewarding. They are barely enough to get by. And we're back to the same question. Can a paedophile be cured?

I know, I was being facetious. Like I said, I don't think there is enough solid research into the causes of pedophilia to know if it can be cured or not. We can't even be 100% sure if it is genetic, caused by the perpetrator being abused as a child (most likely, given what we know thus far) or is similar to psychopathy in that it is caused at a very early age but is believed to be incurable at an advanced stage.

My own personal belief would be that it would be akin to psychopathy in many ways and, thus, should be treated as such whereas those identified to suffer from it (who don't act) aren't necessarily treated as prisoners but kept away from society nonetheless, until such a time as a cure is discovered, as they are a threat to others in the meantime.

The first step, though, is finding out the facts.

thebullkf

Dudess wrote: »

I don't know whether it should be classified as a disability, but a person hardly chooses to fancy children (as opposed to acting on it, which is obviously a choice).

but how is acting on it a choice....if fancying them can't be helped

MagicSean

thebullkf wrote: »

but how is acting on it a choice....if fancying them can't be helped

Because you don't have to act on your desires.

Dudess

A person who chooses to sexually violate a child has made a conscious decision of which they are in control - i.e. they can choose not to.

A person who has an innate sexual desire for children can't control this feeling but can keep the hell away from kids.

Sindri

If it is ego dystonic then it should be classed as such.

As in a condition.

^^^
People are not born with paedophilic tendencies, but innate you say, it is possible that it could be argued as such in certain cases, but definitely not nature.

My name is URL

RichieC wrote: »

IF a paedophile goes to the doctors young and confesses he has certain urges he cant control *before* he does anything to children then I think they deserve all the help they can get. once they cross the Rubicon I say cut their balls off and then give them disability, in prison.

Honestly?! You accused me of being part of the 'new right' not so long ago.

You really see your idea as a preventative measure rather than a reactionary (after the fact) one? I take it you'll be cutting thieves hands off and blinding the voyeurs too.. That'll learn 'em

Sindri

thebullkf wrote: »

but how is acting on it a choice....if fancying them can't be helped

Stop trying to explain why you were in that playground.

Sindri

Interestingly enough the Talmud actually offers advice on sexual relations with ones own children.

It actually says 3 years old for a girl and 8 years old for a boy.

And it actually encourages it.

MungBean

Dudess wrote: »

A person who chooses to sexually violate a child has made a conscious decision of which they are in control - i.e. they can choose not to.

A person who has an innate sexual desire for children can't control this feeling but can keep the hell away from kids.

Choosing to go shopping knowing there may be kids there isnt choosing to abuse them though. Its choosing to put yourself in a situation where something may happen. Whether or not they can control their actions in that situation though is another thing altogether.

MagicSean

MungBean wrote: »

Choosing to go shopping knowing there may be kids there isnt choosing to abuse them though. Its choosing to put yourself in a situation where something may happen. Whether or not they can control their actions in that situation though is another thing altogether.

Control their actions? Are you suggesting that it goes beyong a simple attraction to children and is actually a compulsion to touch them?

Dudess

Sindri wrote: »

If it is ego dystonic then it should be classed as such.

As in a condition.

^^^
People are not born with paedophilic tendencies, but innate you say, it is possible that it could be argued as such in certain cases, but definitely not nature.

What do you think causes it so? IMO it seems like an abnormality without external causes, like e.g. psychopathy.

thebullkf

MagicSean wrote: »

Because you don't have to act on your desires.

'Normal' people don't.....

Dudess wrote: »

A person who chooses to sexually violate a child has made a conscious decision of which they are in control - i.e. they can choose not to.A person who has an innate sexual desire for children can't control this feeling but can keep the hell away from kids.

but therein lies the contradiction... if they can't control feelings, how can you expect them to control actions

Either way i think the greeks are nuts doing this, to group pedio's and say , blind people in the one bracket is daft, and dangerous.

thebullkf

Dudess wrote: »

What do you think causes it so? IMO it seems like an abnormality without external causes, like e.g. psychopathy.

I would add environment to that.

thebullkf

MagicSean wrote: »

Control their actions? Are you suggesting that it goes beyong a simple attraction to children and is actually a compulsion to touch them?

if its not, then there wouldn't be abuse , only fantasy.

MagicSean

thebullkf wrote: »

but therein lies the contradiction... if they can't control feelings, how can you expect them to control actions

I can't control my attraction to Georgia Salpa but I'm not going to rape her if I see her.

Millicent

thebullkf wrote: »

but therein lies the contradiction... if they can't control feelings, how can you expect them to control actions

Because people do it all the time. Take a depressed person for example. Just because they think of killing themselves, doesn't mean they are going to act on the impulse.

thebullkf

MagicSean wrote: »

I can't control my attraction to Georgia Salpa but I'm not going to rape her if I see her.

but you can control it... cos you just said you weren't going to , and meant it...

there is a difference.

leggo

MagicSean wrote: »

I can't control my attraction to Georgia Salpa but I'm not going to rape her if I see her.

I'd offer her sweets if she got into my van tho tbf.

Dudess

Of course you can control your actions even if you can't control your feelings.
If I really fancy a guy, I can't help it, but I'm not gonna go over and drag him down an alley to have my way with him.

Why the assumption that paedos can't control themselves? Just because their desires are unacceptable doesn't mean they can't control them.

Sindri

Dudess wrote: »

What do you think causes it so? IMO it seems like an abnormality without external causes, like e.g. psychopathy.

It's a paraphilia so anything-
-Sexual deviancy
-Sexual deviancy caused by boredom by excessive masturbation
-If the person themselves has been victimised (sexually or not or as a child or not)
-Brain damage
-Some ungratified sexually desire from their childhood.

It is acquired but on what actually causes it there is no consensus.

I could speculate for days on the nature of human sexuality. (And I will if you ask me to).:D

thebullkf

Millicent wrote: »

Because people do it all the time. Take a depressed person for example. Just because they think of killing themselves, doesn't mean they are going to act on the impulse.

i really don't see the correlation between suicide and pedophilia tbh
but... isn't depression (sometimes) a fleeting feeling, ebbing and flowing, pedophilia is a way of feeling/doing.

Plus you can only kill yourself once.

Also i would guess its akin to having violent/murderous feelings... once acted upon there is no going back...

MungBean

MagicSean wrote: »

Control their actions? Are you suggesting that it goes beyong a simple attraction to children and is actually a compulsion to touch them?

In some cases it probably is a mixture of attraction to children and a sexual urge so strong as to not being able to control it.

I dont think you can call being attracted to kids a disability because they dont choose to feel that way and at the same time assuming that they choose to act on it.

Its a sexual attraction born of urges to have sex with children and as deluded as some of them probably are I dont think too many entertain the possibility of satisfying that urge in any other way than forcing themselves on their victims. Just as we have urges to have sex in an appropriate manner (not with each other) they have urges to do the same in the only manner they know is available to them. And as such would manifest itself as a compulsion to touch a child inappropriately I'd assume.

leggo

Sindri wrote: »

It's a paraphilia so anything-
-Sexual deviancy
-Sexual deviancy caused by boredom by excessive masturbation
-If the person themselves has been victimised (sexually or not or as a child or not)
-Brain damage
-Some ungratified sexually desire from their childhood.

It is acquired but on what actually causes it there is no consensus.

I could speculate for days on the nature of human sexuality. (And I will if you ask me to).:D

Proof for any of these claims?

I'm not doubting you, I'm sure some of them are in fact true, but as I've stated already this is all speculation (as are my own theories) until we conduct some serious research and start revising how we deal with the problem based around the findings.

thebullkf

Dudess wrote: »

Of course you can control your actions even if you can't control your feelings.
If I really fancy a guy, I can't help it, but I'm not gonna go over and drag him down an alley to have my way with him.

Why the assumption that paedos can't control themselves? Just because their desires are unacceptable doesn't mean they can't control them.

why the assumption they can

Millicent

thebullkf wrote: »

i really don't see the correlation between suicide and pedophilia tbh
but... isn't depression (sometimes) a fleeting feeling, ebbing and flowing, pedophilia is a way of feeling/doing.

Plus you can only kill yourself once.

Also i would guess its akin to having violent/murderous feelings... once acted upon there is no going back...

You don't see the correlation between an urge to harm yourself and an urge to harm others (i.e. children)?

Depression is not always fleeting. Some people live with it for years on end. Some days better; some days worse. I'd imagine people with paedophilic urges would be much the same. I doubt it's an all-consuming thing all the time.

I'm not trying to imply that paedophilia is no bad thing, by any means, but I agree with the poster above that it is better it is brought out into the open and understood before it can be dealt with.