Wrongful conviction / miscarriage of justice

d4head77

I was recently involved in a case where a former partner claimed I assaulted her. The reality is we broke up, but she has a very seriously negative attitude towards any negative comment towards her, which includes rejection (by me, in this case). The night we parted (some 2 years ago) we argued, and she fell drunk, sustaining bruises. She complained to the Guards that I had pushed her, so I was brought to court for assault. The Guards saw through her straight away, and I gather, from reading between the lines, tried to dissuade her from persisting with her case, but she was determined to humiliate me as much as she could. I had to stand in court, having told every single word of truth, and listen to her lie, lie and lie again. There was no jury; the judge (female) simply said at the end, without explanation or anything, that she saw me as guilty. Three Gardaí and two prison officers preent in connection with a different case all approached me and my solicitor, telling us (a) they knew she was lying through her teeth, and (b) as one said "I can't believe she got away with that".

I feel humiliated, hurt, demeaned and abused. I feel betrayed. I dare not appeal (though my solicitor is urging me to) because I can't afford it (I am not entitled to legal aid) and because bad and all as the potential fallout of any publicity this attracts to me is, to invite further publicity will certainly jeopardise my job. I don't know what to do, where to turn. I told the truth, as I have been brought up to do; she told total, and complete lies, which is now in the public domain; not only is it inaccurate in totality (rather than exaggerated), it makes me out to be a monster in gutter-press journalistic speak. I am destroyed; I feel sick.

I never thought a human being could sink so low.

blueythebear

d4head77 wrote: »

I was recently involved in a case where a former partner claimed I assaulted her. The reality is we broke up, but she has a very seriously negative attitude towards any negative comment towards her, which includes rejection (by me, in this case). The night we parted (some 2 years ago) we argued, and she fell drunk, sustaining bruises. She complained to the Guards that I had pushed her, so I was brought to court for assault. The Guards saw through her straight away, and I gather, from reading between the lines, tried to dissuade her from persisting with her case, but she was determined to humiliate me as much as she could. I had to stand in court, having told every single word of truth, and listen to her lie, lie and lie again. There was no jury; the judge (female) simply said at the end, without explanation or anything, that she saw me as guilty. Three Gardaí and two prison officers preent in connection with a different case all approached me and my solicitor, telling us (a) they knew she was lying through her teeth, and (b) as one said "I can't believe she got away with that".

I feel humiliated, hurt, demeaned and abused. I feel betrayed. I dare not appeal (though my solicitor is urging me to) because I can't afford it (I am not entitled to legal aid) and because bad and all as the potential fallout of any publicity this attracts to me is, to invite further publicity will certainly jeopardise my job. I don't know what to do, where to turn. I told the truth, as I have been brought up to do; she told total, and complete lies, which is now in the public domain; not only is it inaccurate in totality (rather than exaggerated), it makes me out to be a monster in gutter-press journalistic speak. I am destroyed; I feel sick.

I never thought a human being could sink so low.

Unfortunately, the only thing that you can do about it is to appeal. You need to decide if the possibility of overturning this conviction is worth the money for the appeal. I would suggest that you discuss the matter with your solicitor and listen to his advice.

ResearchWill

d4head77 wrote: »

I was recently involved in a case where a former partner claimed I assaulted her. The reality is we broke up, but she has a very seriously negative attitude towards any negative comment towards her, which includes rejection (by me, in this case). The night we parted (some 2 years ago) we argued, and she fell drunk, sustaining bruises. She complained to the Guards that I had pushed her, so I was brought to court for assault. The Guards saw through her straight away, and I gather, from reading between the lines, tried to dissuade her from persisting with her case, but she was determined to humiliate me as much as she could. I had to stand in court, having told every single word of truth, and listen to her lie, lie and lie again. There was no jury; the judge (female) simply said at the end, without explanation or anything, that she saw me as guilty. Three Gardaí and two prison officers preent in connection with a different case all approached me and my solicitor, telling us (a) they knew she was lying through her teeth, and (b) as one said "I can't believe she got away with that".

I feel humiliated, hurt, demeaned and abused. I feel betrayed. I dare not appeal (though my solicitor is urging me to) because I can't afford it (I am not entitled to legal aid) and because bad and all as the potential fallout of any publicity this attracts to me is, to invite further publicity will certainly jeopardise my job. I don't know what to do, where to turn. I told the truth, as I have been brought up to do; she told total, and complete lies, which is now in the public domain; not only is it inaccurate in totality (rather than exaggerated), it makes me out to be a monster in gutter-press journalistic speak. I am destroyed; I feel sick.

I never thought a human being could sink so low.

I am assuming this was a criminal case, the reason I say assume, is your comment "The Guards saw through her straight away, and I gather, from reading between the lines, tried to dissuade her from persisting with her case, but she was determined to humiliate me as much as she could." it is up to AGS if a case goes to trial, if a guard is of the opinion that a crime did not in fact take place after investigation, said guard should not bring a case.

In relation to your question on appeal, well it is simple if you don't appeal, you are in the eyes of the law guilty of an assault on your ex partner, also with out knowing punishment it is impossible to give, explain the risks involved. In relation to legal aid your solicitor can advise you on this, but without knowing your income and circumstances no one can answer that question. The SC recently gave a judgement on what kind of cases will qualify for legal aid.

Best of luck with your appeal if you go down that route.

MagicSean

ResearchWill wrote: »

I am assuming this was a criminal case, the reason I say assume, is your comment "The Guards saw through her straight away, and I gather, from reading between the lines, tried to dissuade her from persisting with her case, but she was determined to humiliate me as much as she could." it is up to AGS if a case goes to trial, if a guard is of the opinion that a crime did not in fact take place after investigation, said guard should not bring a case.

In relation to your question on appeal, well it is simple if you don't appeal, you are in the eyes of the law guilty of an assault on your ex partner, also with out knowing punishment it is impossible to give, explain the risks involved. In relation to legal aid your solicitor can advise you on this, but without knowing your income and circumstances no one can answer that question. The SC recently gave a judgement on what kind of cases will qualify for legal aid.

Best of luck with your appeal if you go down that route.

It is not up to the Garda wether or not to bring a prosecution of a case of assault. It is up to them to investigate and the dpp or a person he has delegated makes the decision on wether to prosecute.

twowheelsonly

Without knowing you or your circumstances I would definitely say to appeal.
I'm presuming that you have no previous but either way, regardless of whether or not you're giving the full story I would still appeal it.
The Gardai and Prison Officers that were in the Court are most likely there on a very regular basis and after a while tend to spot the spoofers, liars and chancers. Trouble is, the Judges can quite often have a different opinion, and theirs is the one that counts. There is a good chance though that a different Judge will have a totally different opinion.
You have to weigh up the potential cost of the conviction, (bearing in mind that it's an assault against a female), with the potential cost to you regarding future employment or travel plans.
Good luck with it either way.

ResearchWill

MagicSean wrote: »

It is not up to the Garda wether or not to bring a prosecution of a case of assault. It is up to them to investigate and the dpp or a person he has delegated makes the decision on wether to prosecute.

This was a DC case, the DPP would have no involvement, a Garda is acting a common informer in the DC, while in name he is acting as the DPP, the Garda makes the decision. The DPP will decide on indictment. See the DPP's website, http://www.dppireland.ie/brief-guide-to-the-criminal-justice-system/category/1/

Also the DPP will only decide on indictment, if a file was sent to the DPPif the Garda does not send the file the DPP can't make a decision. While this could cause issues if a complaint was made, the OP seems to believe none of the guards believed his ex partner.

mcgarrett

ResearchWill wrote: »

This was a DC case, the DPP would have no involvement, a Garda is acting a common informer in the DC, while in name he is acting as the DPP, the Garda makes the decision. The DPP will decide on indictment. See the DPP's website, http://www.dppireland.ie/brief-guide-to-the-criminal-justice-system/category/1/

Also the DPP will only decide on indictment, if a file was sent to the DPPif the Garda does not send the file the DPP can't make a decision. While this could cause issues if a complaint was made, the OP seems to believe none of the guards believed his ex partner.

The Garda will submit an investigation file and the District Officer (Supt or Insp) will direct the charges to be preferred or refer the file to the DPP.

The Garda may only give an opinion or recommendation on the file.

ResearchWill

mcgarrett wrote: »

The Garda will submit an investigation file and the District Officer (Supt or Insp) will direct the charges to be preferred or refer the file to the DPP.

The Garda may only give an opinion or recommendation on the file.

Again my point is that if a Garda does not believe a complaint it will go no further. Or is it normal for a Garda after a complaint, to investigate, decide that the complaint has no basis in fact, and then decide to send such a file up the chain of command.

But I was of the opinion that a member of AGS could decide to prosecute without speaking to his insp or supt. but I will check that with a Garda in the next few days and report back.

pirelli

d4head77 wrote: »

I was recently involved in a case where a former partner claimed I assaulted her. The reality is we broke up, but she has a very seriously negative attitude towards any negative comment towards her, which includes rejection (by me, in this case). The night we parted (some 2 years ago) we argued, and she fell drunk, sustaining bruises. She complained to the Guards that I had pushed her, so I was brought to court for assault. The Guards saw through her straight away, and I gather, from reading between the lines, tried to dissuade her from persisting with her case, but she was determined to humiliate me as much as she could. I had to stand in court, having told every single word of truth, and listen to her lie, lie and lie again. There was no jury; the judge (female) simply said at the end, without explanation or anything, that she saw me as guilty. Three Gardaí and two prison officers preent in connection with a different case all approached me and my solicitor, telling us (a) they knew she was lying through her teeth, and (b) as one said "I can't believe she got away with that".

I feel humiliated, hurt, demeaned and abused. I feel betrayed. I dare not appeal (though my solicitor is urging me to) because I can't afford it (I am not entitled to legal aid) and because bad and all as the potential fallout of any publicity this attracts to me is, to invite further publicity will certainly jeopardise my job. I don't know what to do, where to turn. I told the truth, as I have been brought up to do; she told total, and complete lies, which is now in the public domain; not only is it inaccurate in totality (rather than exaggerated), it makes me out to be a monster in gutter-press journalistic speak. I am destroyed; I feel sick.

I never thought a human being could sink so low.

If your innocent appeal. Don't carry a conviction if your innocent.

1. Were there witnesses
2. Was there CCTV
3. Did she call the garda immediately thereafter her fall.
4. Was she assessed medically.
4. What, and more importantly where exactly were those injuries and bruises
b. While you might wish not to mention this particuarly as it belived not to be true..in what way is she alleging you assaulted her.
5. Forensic medicine is very advanced and we have an expert in UCD who might be ale to help. That may very well be an avenue to proceed with an appeal.
6. I think You only have 14 days to appeal so lodge it soon and make sure you get some legal assistance..appeals are complicated at the best of times.

There is rarely publicity in an appeal of such a small offence, the damage is over now.

blatantrereg

This sort of thing happens a lot more than people realise. The vast majority of cases are heard by judges only in Ireland and the UK. There can be all sorts of shady crap behind the scenes, aside from the judge just being wrong.
Changing your name might be something to consider, especially if the article comes up on search engine results.

pirelli

1. How exactly did she fall. Did she trip on a pavement, or just fall face first.
2.How is she alleging she fell.

Thank you

mcgarrett

ResearchWill wrote: »

Again my point is that if a Garda does not believe a complaint it will go no further. Or is it normal for a Garda after a complaint, to investigate, decide that the complaint has no basis in fact, and then decide to send such a file up the chain of command.

Once he has received a statement of complaint an investigation file will be completed.
It will be forwarded through the Sgt to the District Officer who will decide on whether a prosecution will be initiated or not. The recommendations of the investigating Garda will be taken into consideration but it is ultimately the decision of the Supt.

There are certain files that have to go to the DPP for direction and those directions will return with consent to summary disposal or trial on indictment.

knird evol

Any medical evidence?
Any independent witnesses?

If it was just her word against yours. And if we accept your perception of events - whereby everyone in the courtroom except the Judge thought your evidence was more credible than hers. Then in terms of probability any other given Judge would decide in your favour. Therefore the appeal Judge is most likely to find in your favour.

That's all predicated on your view that everyone including the prosecuting garda thought the ip was obviously lying.

theAwakening

I assume this concerns a 'Section 2 Assault'?

In the absence of medical evidence or independent direct evidence from a witness, I am surprised that a judge would find himself satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt of your guilt. Surely the prosecution adduced some form of additional evidence.

In such circumstances it is uncommon for the D.P.P. or Gardaí to commence criminal proceedings.

Did you give direct evidence during the hearing?

d4head77

Thank you very much, folks, for your replies. I'll address the issues raised. I have no previous, though she made a complaint some years ago that someone had punched her in the street. I didn't know her then, so can't comment, but her complaint went nowhere. This time round, yes, it was her word against mine. No witnesses, no proof. As my solr said, it'll be you against her, and whoever the judge (female) believes, gets their day.

The judge listened to her, then me. The gardaí had nothing to add. At the end the judge simply said "I find the facts proven, therefore the defendant is guilty". that was it.

She told me that in view of my good record she would not give me a record, and told me to make a small charitable donation plus, very galling, she asked the so-called victim, by now revelling in her fairy tales having worked, how much she had spent getting a doctor's letter. SHe replied, straight away, 150. I don't think doctors charge that for a letter! But the judge asked her had she a receipt. She said no. The judge then just told me to pay her 150.

I had asked the gardaí, the first time they contacted me, if they could get CCTV, because I knew that would show me totally innocent, and her a total liar. To be fair to them they tried, but were unable to do so.

She didn't call the gardaí at all, after the alleged event. What happened, we had a row and I went off and left her. She was drunk and shouting abuse at me. Later someone appears to have seen her in a distressed state and got a passing squad car to talk to her. She told them I had attacked her and where I lived. They didn't come near me that night nor for a while after, because when they asked her did she want to make a complaint, she said no. But three days later, after her friends (who she told the same story) urged her to, THEN she made a complaint. The judge didn't seem too interested in this.

4. Was she assessed medically.
Yes - the letter said she had bruises that could have been caused by a fall. The gardaí showed me pics of them - they were indeed consistent with a fall, and as my barrister said in court to her "That's because you DID fall - but you weren't pushed".

4. What, and more importantly where exactly were those injuries and bruises.
She had a grazed elbow, 2 or 3 small bruises on her knee and a somewhat nastier one on the side of her cheek.

b. While you might wish not to mention this particuarly as it belived not to be true..in what way is she alleging you assaulted her.
Yes - no problem answering any question. She said I flung her "up a flight of steps" by - wait for this - lifting her under her arm, with one hand, to the extent I lifted her off both feet (I'm not superman, and I've a dodgy wrist from a time I broke it when I fell myself!). Warming to this theme, she then added that I flung her down them again into the street, splitting her elbow. her elbow wasn;t split, but the court couldn;t take the photos into account as the copies the gardaí had produced were unfortunately not of good quality - though her elbow is grazed, not split. he place at which we argued didn't even have a "flight of steps" - it had 1 or 2 very low ones.

5. Forensic medicine is very advanced and we have an expert in UCD who might be ale to help. That may very well be an avenue to proceed with an appeal.
-and-
6. I think You only have 14 days to appeal so lodge it soon and make sure you get some legal assistance..appeals are complicated at the best of times.
Yes, I realise that, though thanks for pointing it out. The reality is that I do have a job, but it is not well paid. It is sufficiently paid to preclude me getting legal aid, but not enough to pay the solicitor for an appeal - though - I'm still mulling it over. The solicitor, and my barrister, commented to me that a man in front of a female judge for allegedly hurting a woman, hasn't a snowballs's chance in hell of being treated fairly. If that is Irish justice, I'm just glad I wasn't black and unemployed as well!

There is rarely publicity in an appeal of such a small offence, the damage is over now.
- maybe, maybe... but - in the line of business I work in, publicity of the slightest sort would be very damaging.

I am with the very greatest of regret, and huge sadness and despair, tending to resign myself to the fact that providing nobody I know gets to hear of it (my closest friend is aware, and he was shocked), I just have to let it go.

What hurts me most is the utter lack of acceptance by my ex of any responsibility for the circumstances in which we broke up, and for lying her way, under oath, through that court sitting. And then being believed.

I'm not sleeping well now. It may be a small and forgettable case for guards, judges and court people, but for me this is a very great personal hurt.

I'll get over it, I suppose. I shouldn;t have to, but there you go. Tell you one thing; I went straight on the Social Services website last night and anonymously reported her for one tax breach and one benefit breach she has been doing. What comes round goes round; it's the least I can do.

d4head77

Incidentally, I should add, the reason she fell that night (twice at least) was that she was absolutely locked. Lovely lady - what on earth did I ever see in her?

d4head77

Re-reading posts aove again; the prosecution offered no evidence at all, nor any information. The prosecuting guy simply said to me several times things like "I put it to you (i.e. me) that you pushed her" to which I replied "No, I did not. She fell due to being drunk". That's about as much as the prosecution did. I felt (though I could be totally wrong) that the prosecutor knew I was telling the truth.

But do you know what? The basis of law, that someone is innocent until proven guilty, is obviously nonsense in our courts. It is a travesty. If this is what people died for in 1916, give me anarchy any day. How on earth, even if the judge fell hook line and sinker for yer wans lies (which she did), can she tell me facts are "proven", when no facts even exist re me assaulting her?

Delancey

OP - can you confirm that the 3 Gardai who said they did not believe your ex were not involved in your case but were in court as ' spectators ' ?

blatantrereg

It just needs to be to the judge's satisfaction that they are guilty. You aren't the only person who has been convicted of something without evidence of guilt - or even with evidence of innocence. Not going to make you feel any better I know...

pirelli

Were you given the location of where she supposedly fell? Were you also at that location, and are you sure there were no CCTV cameras in and about that location.

Did you witness her fall/falling ?

Did the Garda give any indication of whether she was intoxicated.

It seems suspicious no one called the police or witnessed you alleging you assaulted her. When something like that is witnessed people would be quickly on their mobile phone and the Garda would be very aware if there was such a report. So was the area a busy thorough fare or place likely to have many people.

Here is video of people falling. There is a faulty pavement and people keep tripping and falling. The majority of people who fall are old people, mostly female and a few old men. There are a few younger persons and one female that falls injuring her knee, elbow and scalp.

The point of the video gives you cluster of the types of injuries associated with this particular circumstance and the fall that ensues. 40- 50 % Head area leg area and arm area
The rest are leg and arm consisting in some case of either the wrist or the elbow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qWpXKhWXcc

Reloc8

You have a solicitor to advise you for a reason - you've been advised to appeal - its up to you whether you follow the advice or not.

irishh_bob

d4head77 wrote: »

I was recently involved in a case where a former partner claimed I assaulted her. The reality is we broke up, but she has a very seriously negative attitude towards any negative comment towards her, which includes rejection (by me, in this case). The night we parted (some 2 years ago) we argued, and she fell drunk, sustaining bruises. She complained to the Guards that I had pushed her, so I was brought to court for assault. The Guards saw through her straight away, and I gather, from reading between the lines, tried to dissuade her from persisting with her case, but she was determined to humiliate me as much as she could. I had to stand in court, having told every single word of truth, and listen to her lie, lie and lie again. There was no jury; the judge (female) simply said at the end, without explanation or anything, that she saw me as guilty. Three Gardaí and two prison officers preent in connection with a different case all approached me and my solicitor, telling us (a) they knew she was lying through her teeth, and (b) as one said "I can't believe she got away with that".

I feel humiliated, hurt, demeaned and abused. I feel betrayed. I dare not appeal (though my solicitor is urging me to) because I can't afford it (I am not entitled to legal aid) and because bad and all as the potential fallout of any publicity this attracts to me is, to invite further publicity will certainly jeopardise my job. I don't know what to do, where to turn. I told the truth, as I have been brought up to do; she told total, and complete lies, which is now in the public domain; not only is it inaccurate in totality (rather than exaggerated), it makes me out to be a monster in gutter-press journalistic speak. I am destroyed; I feel sick.

I never thought a human being could sink so low.

hi op , i deeply sympathise with your plight , i myself have a conviction for assault , my crime was wrestling someone to the ground who hit me a punch in the face , thier were no witnesses and we were both summonsed for assaulting each other but the other guy had a silver tongue to beat the band and the judge swallowed every line hook line and sinker , the agressor had help in court from a doctor who he was friendly with , they substansiated false evidence of exagerated injurys and the judge was sold

the whole thing was a farce , guards were useless , my legal team consisted of a grumpy and incompetant local solicitor and a rookie barrister who got stage fright , my head was in the toilet after the shock of the defeat and i went with my lousy solicitor and just decided to pay the fine , i deeply regret not having appealed it , apart from the fact that ive since found a wonderfull solicitor and believe i could have won my appeal , my uncle told me that by appealing ( even its rejected ) you are making a statement that you dont accept the descision

appeal


ps , one lesson ive learned down the years is that regardless of what the guards might say to you , you cant take them at face value , the guards are full of politics and will nine out of ten times side with the ( officially ) vulnerable even they are the agressor , this includes , women , older people , people with health problems etc , guards value thier careers above all else and have little trouble in turning a blind eye to blatant injustice on a small scale , they wont play dumb in murder cases or high profile crimes but when it comes to small time local disputes , they are indifferent to miscariages of justice

d4head77

Folks

Very many thanks again for your comments and interest.

Pirelli - your questions: Did you witness her fall/falling ? Yes - twice. Through drink, I offered to help her up each time but she was shouting abuse at me to F off so she got up herself while i looked on.

Did the Garda give any indication of whether she was intoxicated. No. I told them that she was. I told them that in the bar we had been in she had been topping up her drink with vodka in a bottle in her bag.

It seems suspicious no one called the police or witnessed you alleging you assaulted her. When something like that is witnessed people would be quickly on their mobile phone and the Garda would be very aware if there was such a report. So was the area a busy thorough fare or place likely to have many people.
Absolutely. The judge failed to allow for that. I actually stated that I believed there WAS a witness - a couple who walkde past. Why did they not call the guards? My accuser told the guards, after i said there was a witness, that this couple were begging me to leave her alone. First I heard of it, and again, if they were there, and that concerned, they still didnt ring the guards!!!

Re appealing, I havent the money, and I am afraid of yet more publicity. I don't want to be in the Sunday World!

Delancy - the 3 guards who said to me they couldn't believe she got away with it - their words - were in court in connection with a different case. There must have been about 15 guards in the courtroom that day as there were all sorts of things ahead of me that were up for adjournment and the like. The ones that dealt with me - I am guessing that the two my accuser spoke to first believed her initially, but later got round to at the very least thinking that she wasn't to be belived. I was told one of them had told my solicitor "she's no angel, that one" about my accuser. They rel;eased me at the time, but said they'd send it to the DPP. But - as i discovered - they didn't send it to the DPP for some 8 months, during which time one suggested to her she might drop the case. So that implies somethig to me. She then complained to the ombudsman about the guards, so they sent off the file. She has a relative who is a guard, so maybe the relative advised her on the QT to do that, I don't know, She also knows quite a few of them through her work.

She had a letter from her doctor stating that the few bruises she had were "consistent with a fall". She did not deny she fell - and this is what I stated happened. Her only divergence from what i said was that she said I pushed her. That's what she told the guards, but in court she embellished this by saying I physically lifted her right off the ground by one armpit - but had no bruises under her arm!

I am so totally sick over this. Sick to the pit of stomach. And there's not a bloody thing I can do but just swallow it. And hope that it's not all over the internet. I did manage to find by googling various things, but it isn't that reachable. But for all time I will wonder who knows of this. She has made me, on record, out to be a dangerous psycho, and not only is that not true, I didn;'t even push her. It's not even an exaggerated version with some truth; it is fantasy.

My personal circumstamces are such that I can't have this all over the media. That said, just in case it does, I have got the apeal period extended for a couple of more weeks.

MagicSean

d4head77 wrote: »

Folks

Very many thanks again for your comments and interest.

Pirelli - your questions: Did you witness her fall/falling ? Yes - twice. Through drink, I offered to help her up each time but she was shouting abuse at me to F off so she got up herself while i looked on.

Did the Garda give any indication of whether she was intoxicated. No. I told them that she was. I told them that in the bar we had been in she had been topping up her drink with vodka in a bottle in her bag.

It seems suspicious no one called the police or witnessed you alleging you assaulted her. When something like that is witnessed people would be quickly on their mobile phone and the Garda would be very aware if there was such a report. So was the area a busy thorough fare or place likely to have many people.
Absolutely. The judge failed to allow for that. I actually stated that I believed there WAS a witness - a couple who walkde past. Why did they not call the guards? My accuser told the guards, after i said there was a witness, that this couple were begging me to leave her alone. First I heard of it, and again, if they were there, and that concerned, they still didnt ring the guards!!!

Re appealing, I havent the money, and I am afraid of yet more publicity. I don't want to be in the Sunday World!

Delancy - the 3 guards who said to me they couldn't believe she got away with it - their words - were in court in connection with a different case. There must have been about 15 guards in the courtroom that day as there were all sorts of things ahead of me that were up for adjournment and the like. The ones that dealt with me - I am guessing that the two my accuser spoke to first believed her initially, but later got round to at the very least thinking that she wasn't to be belived. I was told one of them had told my solicitor "she's no angel, that one" about my accuser. They rel;eased me at the time, but said they'd send it to the DPP. But - as i discovered - they didn't send it to the DPP for some 8 months, during which time one suggested to her she might drop the case. So that implies somethig to me. She then complained to the ombudsman about the guards, so they sent off the file. She has a relative who is a guard, so maybe the relative advised her on the QT to do that, I don't know, She also knows quite a few of them through her work.

She had a letter from her doctor stating that the few bruises she had were "consistent with a fall". She did not deny she fell - and this is what I stated happened. Her only divergence from what i said was that she said I pushed her. That's what she told the guards, but in court she embellished this by saying I physically lifted her right off the ground by one armpit - but had no bruises under her arm!

I am so totally sick over this. Sick to the pit of stomach. And there's not a bloody thing I can do but just swallow it. And hope that it's not all over the internet. I did manage to find by googling various things, but it isn't that reachable. But for all time I will wonder who knows of this. She has made me, on record, out to be a dangerous psycho, and not only is that not true, I didn;'t even push her. It's not even an exaggerated version with some truth; it is fantasy.

My personal circumstamces are such that I can't have this all over the media. That said, just in case it does, I have got the apeal period extended for a couple of more weeks.

There is something you can do. You can appeal. I'm not sure why you think your case will be all over the internet as opposed to all the other cases that barely get a few lines in the local paper.

blatantrereg

He indicates in the OP that it is online already.
Doesnt need to be all over the place for it to be damaging tbh. One place and a high search ranking is plenty.

Zambia

OP if you did not do this appeal.

Go down swinging, maybe even PM Irish Bob for his sh1t hot solicitor.

In a few years from now you may be willing to pay ten times the cost of the appeal.

d4head77

Yep, I think I will. I am worried about cost as the money I needed to defend myself the first time is gone and I've no more. I also totally, totally distrust courts now and the idea of even entering one again just freaks me out.

I would close by saying every detail I posted is true - because I wanted opinions on what I said and did, not what I'd like to have said and done, which would be irrelevant. And, I've no reason not to post truth here, because I am (hopefully!) anonymous.

Altogether, it is a sickening situation for me, just sickening. Tell you what though, if it gets into the public domain (of my friends, that is), I'll soon find out who my real friends are. People talk, judge and don't know realities.

johnnyskeleton

d4head77 wrote: »

Yep, I think I will. I am worried about cost as the money I needed to defend myself the first time is gone and I've no more. I also totally, totally distrust courts now and the idea of even entering one again just freaks me out.

I would close by saying every detail I posted is true - because I wanted opinions on what I said and did, not what I'd like to have said and done, which would be irrelevant. And, I've no reason not to post truth here, because I am (hopefully!) anonymous.

Altogether, it is a sickening situation for me, just sickening. Tell you what though, if it gets into the public domain (of my friends, that is), I'll soon find out who my real friends are. People talk, judge and don't know realities.

If you have no more money you might not be able to retain your current solicitor and barrister, but you should be able to apply for legal aid. If you're really stuck, there is no law against defending yourself.

d4head77

I'd be half inclined to do that, Johnny. Talking to my solr. today he has extended my time to appeal. I am not entitled to legal aid. Thing is, i work, which knocks me out, but I am not well paid and have dependants..... and zero savings.

johnnyskeleton

d4head77 wrote: »

I'd be half inclined to do that, Johnny. Talking to my solr. today he has extended my time to appeal. I am not entitled to legal aid. Thing is, i work, which knocks me out, but I am not well paid and have dependants..... and zero savings.

Tell the judge in the circuit court that. Fill in a statement of means detailing your income and outgoings. Tell the judge you already experienced hardship by paying for a solicitor and barrister and of the effect paying again would have on your children's welfare. Tell him that if you don't have legal aid you will have to either represent yourself or else withdraw the appeal. Just because you work doesn't mean you are not entitled to legal aid. In fact many working people should be more entitled to legal aid than someone on welfare because the welfare recipient could have more discretionary income.

blatantrereg

No. You're not entitled to criminal legal aid unless there is a serious possibility you'll go to prison if you are found guilty.

I dont think there is this possibility. You probably would have mentioned that you've been sentenced to a prison term if this had happened.

johnnyskeleton

blatantrereg wrote: »

No. You're not entitled to criminal legal aid unless there is a serious possibility you'll go to prison if you are found guilty.

I dont think there is this possibility. You probably would have mentioned that you've been sentenced to a prison term if this had happened.

That's not true. Serious offence or exceptional circumstances is the test

blatantrereg

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

That's not true. Serious offence or exceptional circumstances is the test

It is true

The Scheme applies to the following forms of litigation (which are not covered by Civil or Criminal Legal Aid): (i) Habeas corpus applications. (ii) Bail Motions. (iii) Such Judicial Reviews as consist of or include Certiorari, Mandamus or Prohibition and are concerned with criminal matters or matters where the liberty of the applicant is at issue. (iv) Applications under section 50 of the Extradition Act 1965, extradition applications and European Arrest Warrant applications.

http://www.attorneygeneral.ie/ac/agscheme.html

The OP's liberty isn't at issue if he's appealing a case where he is not being sent to prison. The state's point of view is that there is no risk to his basic human rights therefore, and therefore they're not required to grant legal aid.

johnnyskeleton

blatantrereg wrote: »

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

That's not true. Serious offence or exceptional circumstances is the test

It is true

The Scheme applies to the following forms of litigation (which are not covered by Civil or Criminal Legal Aid): (i) Habeas corpus applications. (ii) Bail Motions. (iii) Such Judicial Reviews as consist of or include Certiorari, Mandamus or Prohibition and are concerned with criminal matters or matters where the liberty of the applicant is at issue. (iv) Applications under section 50 of the Extradition Act 1965, extradition applications and European Arrest Warrant applications.

http://www.attorneygeneral.ie/ac/agscheme.html

The OP's liberty isn't at issue if he's appealing a case where he is not being sent to prison. The state's point of view is that there is no risk to his basic human rights therefore, and therefore they're not required to grant legal aid.

that's the attorney generals scheme which is completely different to criminal legal aid. In fact, it expressly states in your quote that it doesn't apply where criminal legal aid has been granted.

blatantrereg

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

that's the attorney generals scheme which is completely different to criminal legal aid. In fact, it expressly states in your quote that it doesn't apply where criminal legal aid has been granted.

ok you're right.
I've heard of a judge refusing to grant it, and referring to the non-possibility of detainment to justify his decision.

foggy_lad

blatantrereg wrote: »

ok you're right.
I've heard of a judge refusing to grant it, and referring to the non-possibility of detainment to justify his decision.

Free legal aid is available to people who's means fall below certain levels and some may be required to make varying contributions for legal aid depending on their means.

http://irishlegalservices.com/index.php/free-legal-aid-solicitors/

The time period of relevance is the year following your application. The Board will seek to estimate what your disposable income for that year will be. It may be necessary to consider your income for the last year in order to do so.

As well as having disposable income of less than €18,000, you must also have disposable capital of less than €320,000. Your family home is not considered when assessing disposable capital.

Disposable income

Disposable income is total income less deductible expenses including income tax, mortgage repayments, rent, social insurance, health insurance contributions, interest on loans, child-minding expenses and other items.

d4head77

Now the nightmare is getting worse. If you type my real name into google, I can be found all over the show. It makes me look like a dangerous violent psycho. A close friend rang me to tell me. He told me that it's got out into a wide circle of my friends (an organisation I'm in) which contains one young relative, another guy who is a customer of my work, and a number of very close lifelong, decent, stable friends. I rang several and found myself sounding panicky; they will probably now think I'm either insane or guilty or both. There is a big gathering os this organisation in the summer, at which I play a leading part. I either go - and spend the whole timeparanoid that every single person who doesn't talk to me "knows".... or I don't go - and then questions will be asked why I'm not there, and the whole thing will go viral.

I was physically, psychologically, and emotionally abused by my accuser initially. Then legally and financially abused by court of so-called law. Finally, I have been publicly abused by a gutter press journo repeating not just the lies told by my accuser, but even an exaggerated version of that.

I am just dead inside. I can't even listen to music. My head is exploding. I am NOT trying to wallow in self pity. This is real, every morning when I wake up - if I've slept, that is. It's like being told I've cancer. Every day, when the sun shines and something good happens, I will always be shot down to earth inside my head, knowing or thinking - paranoia-style, that the very next person I meet "knows" what an exceptionally nasty violent psycho I am.

I just don't know where to turn, what to do. I will never, ever, ever, ever, trust the apparatus of the state in this country again, especially courts.

I am destroyed. I will exist on, kin gthe hope it goes away. But this is abuse. State abuse, like the children's homes. NOW I know what those people went through and why they want to tear churches down. No judge or journalist will ever apologise to me.

d4head77

It is horrible.

blatantrereg

If the appeal doesn't work out you might consider changing your name and moving country. I'm pretty sure you're pretty disgusted with this place now anyway.

You won't be able to bury the results in google. The ranking is determined largely by how many people click the link in the results. Dramatic headlines result in lots of clicks.

Best off trying to remove your identifiable web presence instead.

ResearchWill

blatantrereg wrote: »

ok you're right.
I've heard of a judge refusing to grant it, and referring to the non-possibility of detainment to justify his decision.

The issue of detention was the test, some DJ's still use it, but are incorrect, the SC decided mid last year in Joyce what the correct tests are, and they stated that while detention may be an issue it was not the only issue. See case here, http://courts.ie/Judgments.nsf/bce24a8184816f1580256ef30048ca50/e387446bdd408350802578dc004cacd9?OpenDocument

MagicSean

You do not have cancer and you where not abused like the children in state homes. You were convicted of assault, a conviction which your solicitor has advised you to appeal agains but you have declined for reasons I dont particularly understand. I advise you to open a thread in the personal issues forum. You might get some good advice there on how to deal with this from a non legal stand point.

johnnyskeleton

d4head77 wrote: »

Now the nightmare is getting worse. If you type my real name into google, I can be found all over the show. It makes me look like a dangerous violent psycho. A close friend rang me to tell me. He told me that it's got out into a wide circle of my friends (an organisation I'm in) which contains one young relative, another guy who is a customer of my work, and a number of very close lifelong, decent, stable friends. I rang several and found myself sounding panicky; they will probably now think I'm either insane or guilty or both. There is a big gathering os this organisation in the summer, at which I play a leading part. I either go - and spend the whole timeparanoid that every single person who doesn't talk to me "knows".... or I don't go - and then questions will be asked why I'm not there, and the whole thing will go viral.

I was physically, psychologically, and emotionally abused by my accuser initially. Then legally and financially abused by court of so-called law. Finally, I have been publicly abused by a gutter press journo repeating not just the lies told by my accuser, but even an exaggerated version of that.

I am just dead inside. I can't even listen to music. My head is exploding. I am NOT trying to wallow in self pity. This is real, every morning when I wake up - if I've slept, that is. It's like being told I've cancer. Every day, when the sun shines and something good happens, I will always be shot down to earth inside my head, knowing or thinking - paranoia-style, that the very next person I meet "knows" what an exceptionally nasty violent psycho I am.

I just don't know where to turn, what to do. I will never, ever, ever, ever, trust the apparatus of the state in this country again, especially courts.

I am destroyed. I will exist on, kin gthe hope it goes away. But this is abuse. State abuse, like the children's homes. NOW I know what those people went through and why they want to tear churches down. No judge or journalist will ever apologise to me.

Look, its perfectly simple: appeal and top feeling sorry for yourself. That's all there is. Don't say another word, except for "I've just lodged an appeal". No more than that.

d4head77

Said my bit. Thanks to those here for advice.

pirelli

d4head77 wrote: »

Said my bit. Thanks to those here for advice.

D4head77...Do feel sorry for yourself. If what your saying is true then your not only a victim of a miscarriage of justice but the victim of a crime. Think long and hard about this.

You were not convicted is that correct?
Are you concerned you might be convicted if you appeal?

Perhaps you have a right to vindicate your good name assuming you are innocent and in these circumstances you might have less risk of being convicted. You will have to discuss the risk with your solicitor. Weighing the risk of an appeal against a potentially worse outcome and the probability of successful outcome would be a a difficult decision. I can see that, and can you even appeal since you were not convicted..what would you be appealing.

I am not sure we have given this matter and you predicament suitable consideration. I am not a solicitor or barrister and i do not have definite solutions to what you should do in your circumstance. However brainstorm every possibility before letting the clock tick out.

Once again, if this incident occurred in a busy thorough fare and you can revisit this place and show a constant stream of pedestrians ( even traffic ) during the time and day of week when this incident happened it might prove to be unusual that no person reported the incident to the police. Who were the couple and can you locate them, a new set of witnesses would be definitely helpful. Perhaps you can try locate the witnesses through advertisement or a notice in a relevant place. They are your best chance of a successful appeal.

Was there potentially CCTV that could have exonerated you that the Garda did not retrieve, some cases have been dismissed on the failure to retain evidence in such a situation. This unfortunately became a loophole for defence solicitors to frustrate prosecutions and watered down by more recent 'case history' but would still be something to consider looking at.

Have you looked at the location of where you were alleged to have thrown this person up steps. Is there CCTV, have you sought witnesses that work or live in that area. Does the place even exist? Has she described somewhere that doesn't exist.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1976/en/act/pub/0032/sec0012.html

12.—Any person who—
(a) knowingly makes a false report or statement tending to show that an offence has been committed, whether by himself or another person, or tending to give rise to apprehension for the safety of persons or property, or
(b) knowingly makes a false report or statement tending to show that he has information material to any inquiries by the Garda Síochána and thereby causes the time of the Garda Síochána to be wastefully employed,
shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable—
(i) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, or to both, or
(ii) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years.

irishh_bob

pirelli wrote: »

D4head77...Do feel sorry for yourself. If what your saying is true then your not only a victim of a miscarriage of justice but the victim of a crime. Think long and hard about this.

You were not convicted is that correct?
Are you concerned you might be convicted if you appeal?

Perhaps you have a right to vindicate your good name assuming you are innocent and in these circumstances you might have less risk of being convicted. You will have to discuss the risk with your solicitor. Weighing the risk of an appeal against a potentially worse outcome and the probability of successful outcome would be a a difficult decision. I can see that, and can you even appeal since you were not convicted..what would you be appealing.

I am not sure we have given this matter and you predicament suitable consideration. I am not a solicitor or barrister and i do not have definite solutions to what you should do in your circumstance. However brainstorm every possibility before letting the clock tick out.

Once again, if this incident occurred in a busy thorough fare and you can revisit this place and show a constant stream of pedestrians ( even traffic ) during the time and day of week when this incident happened it might prove to be unusual that no person reported the incident to the police. Who were the couple and can you locate them, a new set of witnesses would be definitely helpful. Perhaps you can try locate the witnesses through advertisement or a notice in a relevant place. They are your best chance of a successful appeal.

Was there potentially CCTV that could have exonerated you that the Garda did not retrieve, some cases have been dismissed on the failure to retain evidence in such a situation. This unfortunately became a loophole for defence solicitors to frustrate prosecutions and watered down by more recent 'case history' but would still be something to consider looking at.

Have you looked at the location of where you were alleged to have thrown this person up steps. Is there CCTV, have you sought witnesses that work or live in that area. Does the place even exist? Has she described somewhere that doesn't exist.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1976/en/act/pub/0032/sec0012.html

12.—Any person who—
(a) knowingly makes a false report or statement tending to show that an offence has been committed, whether by himself or another person, or tending to give rise to apprehension for the safety of persons or property, or
(b) knowingly makes a false report or statement tending to show that he has information material to any inquiries by the Garda Síochána and thereby causes the time of the Garda Síochána to be wastefully employed,
shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable—
(i) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £500 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, or to both, or
(ii) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years.

the chances of the OP,s sentance being increased in the event of him appealing is close to zero i would have thought , considering their were no independant witneses , a conviction was a surprise in the first place , i think the OP should appeal , he will be in a weakened possition when it comes to the law for the rest of his life he lets it go , even the worst case scenario came to pass and he lost his appeal , by appealing , he has shown that he did not accept the courts original verdict

d4head77

Many thanks again, folks. I suppose my fear is primarily of more adverse publicity, as the (totally false) account of the complainant has now appeared in one single media - albeit one that peripheral friends of mine have now seen. So in a sense, I may have everything to gain by appealing, and as it happens my solr. has had my appeal period extended while I consider it. However, another fear I have is that if I appeal, and I got a judge once who believed TOTAL lies without proof (none available, as her version didn't happen) , who says I mightn't get the same again? I just don;t trust court any more. Maybe that's just me. And,in terms of the acuracy of my story, on Boards.ie I know I am as anonymous as you good folks, so if I knew I was talking rubbish, or telling half the story, I woul be wasting my time and yours by posting here!

I was emailed by a friend, whose email was headed "Public domain!!!". I knew exactly what was going to be in that email..... He is agood buddy of mine who knows the craic, but his point was that then story had spready to 5 or 6 friends of mine. Bad as the story she told in court was, the story told in public afterwards was even an exaggerated version of my beloved complainants total lies - in other words, fantasy.

Part of me says, let it go. Move on. part of me is still thinking why the hell should I for all time, be identifiable,for anyone who wants to research it, as someone who carried out not only what the complainant suggested, but actually an even worse exaggerated version of that!

I was found guilty technically, on the basis that the judge said the "facts" were "proven", even though they weren't. I cannot prove that Jedward caused the Crimean War, because they didn't. But I was let off provided I paid a small amount to charity.

Tell me this, if anyone is interested. I had considered writing personally to the judge, not on the basis that they could do a solitary thing about it, but to (a) get it all off my chest, and (b) point out to them, as person-to-person, what this type of thing means to a normal member of the public. My point would be "this is what happens" to one anonymous individual as a result of someone taking a call on one persons word against another. Point being - think next time. Think.

Ken.

DO NOT WRITE TO THE JUDGE. It will not end well for you and could be seen as threatening or intimidating behaviour and then your in a world of trouble.

irishh_bob

d4head77 wrote: »

Many thanks again, folks. I suppose my fear is primarily of more adverse publicity, as the (totally false) account of the complainant has now appeared in one single media - albeit one that peripheral friends of mine have now seen. So in a sense, I may have everything to gain by appealing, and as it happens my solr. has had my appeal period extended while I consider it. However, another fear I have is that if I appeal, and I got a judge once who believed TOTAL lies without proof (none available, as her version didn't happen) , who says I mightn't get the same again? I just don;t trust court any more. Maybe that's just me. And,in terms of the acuracy of my story, on Boards.ie I know I am as anonymous as you good folks, so if I knew I was talking rubbish, or telling half the story, I woul be wasting my time and yours by posting here!

I was emailed by a friend, whose email was headed "Public domain!!!". I knew exactly what was going to be in that email..... He is agood buddy of mine who knows the craic, but his point was that then story had spready to 5 or 6 friends of mine. Bad as the story she told in court was, the story told in public afterwards was even an exaggerated version of my beloved complainants total lies - in other words, fantasy.

Part of me says, let it go. Move on. part of me is still thinking why the hell should I for all time, be identifiable,for anyone who wants to research it, as someone who carried out not only what the complainant suggested, but actually an even worse exaggerated version of that!

I was found guilty technically, on the basis that the judge said the "facts" were "proven", even though they weren't. I cannot prove that Jedward caused the Crimean War, because they didn't. But I was let off provided I paid a small amount to charity.

Tell me this, if anyone is interested. I had considered writing personally to the judge, not on the basis that they could do a solitary thing about it, but to (a) get it all off my chest, and (b) point out to them, as person-to-person, what this type of thing means to a normal member of the public. My point would be "this is what happens" to one anonymous individual as a result of someone taking a call on one persons word against another. Point being - think next time. Think.

writing a letter to the judge would be idiotic , egotistical and completley unproductive on any level bar letting off steam on your own part , judges get things wrong all the time and many of them deliberatley side with the wrongdoer due to thier own personal prejudices , politics etc , the judge doesnt care if your upset , writing to the judge is a horrible idea

you have an avenue available to you to deal with this and thier is a good chance you can turn this thing around , you seem obsessed with the idea of people knowing that you got a conviction , a few things about that , you cannnot impress or convince everyone that you are a terrific and decent guy , thier will always be people who jump at the chance to believe the worst about you regardless of the facts , trying to win those people over is an unwinnable battle , people like that believe what they want to believe

convictions and appeals are very common ,( i have one and deeply regret not having appealed , i had a lousy solicitor who,s lousy advice i took and just took it on the chin , the court case was a farce in front of a well known erratic judge ) if you appeal and win , any report in the media will completley vindicate you and will show right minded people that you were wrongly convicted in the first place , this will show you in a possitive light as someone who refused to lie down when found guilty in the wrong , you will be commended for your fighting the good fight

stop licking your wounds , get up , beg , borrow or steal the price of an appeal and go and restore your good name

do it now


ps , if your looking for a good criminal law solicitor , i can point you in the direction of a really excellent one , not cheap though

blatantrereg

lucyfur09 wrote: »

DO NOT WRITE TO THE JUDGE. It will not end well for you and could be seen as threatening or intimidating behaviour and then your in a world of trouble.

reminds me of reading about this:

Written Complaint to a Judge cost a man €17,500

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87388

pirelli

irishh_bob wrote: »

Convictions and appeals are very common ,( i have one and deeply regret not having appealed , i had a lousy solicitor who,s lousy advice i took and just took it on the chin , the court case was a farce in front of a well known erratic judge ) if you appeal and win , any report in the media will completley vindicate you and will show right minded people that you were wrongly convicted in the first place , this will show you in a possitive light as someone who refused to lie down when found guilty in the wrong , you will be commended for your fighting the good fight

stop licking your wounds , get up , beg , borrow or steal the price of an appeal and go and restore your good name
do it now

ps , if your looking for a good criminal law solicitor , i can point you in the direction of a really excellent one , not cheap though

I brought up the risk of him getting an even worse outcome. Is this not something to consider. I would imagine this is why many innocent people do not appeal?

Sorry to hear you had to take it on the chin Irish Bob. Was there any police mishandling in your case? I hope that's not offensive to ask.

I had a miscarriage of justice when I was a leaving cert student, but it's a big one and all it took was one lie that set of an avalanche of lies and deceit. I am not sure what happens in legal terms but when you prove the stone in the centre of a snowball isn't there the snowball implodes. What your left with in your hand with is high grade corruption; exposed for all to see...that's if the media even cares . It's going to be a year or two through the courts with other legal offshoots along the way. I think if you really want to win you need some political backing but you need something to support you. OP sounds very alone right now and to be honest he probably is alone with this injustice. For my success all I need is media support.

irishh_bob

pirelli wrote: »

I brought up the risk of him getting an even worse outcome. Is this not something to consider. I would imagine this is why many innocent people do not appeal?

Sorry to hear you had to take it on the chin Irish Bob. Was there any police mishandling in your case? I hope that's not offensive to ask.

I had a miscarriage of justice when I was a leaving cert student, but it's a big one and all it took was one lie that set of an avalanche of lies and deceit. I am not sure what happens in legal terms but when you prove the stone in the centre of a snowball isn't there the snowball implodes. What your left with in your hand with is high grade corruption; exposed for all to see...that's if the media even cares . It's going to be a year or two through the courts with other legal offshoots along the way. I think if you really want to win you need some political backing but you need something to support you. OP sounds very alone right now and to be honest he probably is alone with this injustice. For my success all I need is media support.

thier were no independant witnesses in this case so its unlikely an appeal would result in an even more draconian judicial descision , the original descision was draconian and would most likely not have passed were it not for the medical evidence , as another poster stated , flimsy medical evidence can be examined through forensics , at district court level , the most outlandish claims are often accepted despite any concrete fool proof evidence

as for my own case , that was seven years ago , the guards were on the other persons side , he had friends fairly high up the chain of command and also had a doctor friend who went to court to support his exagerated evidence of injury , i was punched in the face first and barely restrained him , the presiding district court judge is known nationwide as a loose cannon who goes with his gut , whole thing was a farce but as my present solicitor told me , a lot of crap is let slide at district court level