Sean Quinn - NI Bankruptcy FAIL

Sir Oxman

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0110/quinns.html

The Irish Bank Resolution Corporation has succeeded in having Seán Quinn's bankruptcy status in Northern Ireland annulled.
Judgement in the case at Belfast High Court was given by Mr Justice Donal Deeny this morning.
The IBRC had argued that Mr Quinn's centre of main interest
was in the Republic of Ireland and not north of the border.
When he successfully sought bankruptcy status from the Belfast court in November, Mr Quinn claimed that he was operating from an office in Co Fermanagh.
During its challenge last month the IRBC claimed that a European Directive that applies in insolvency cases stipulates that a person's centre of main interest has to be ascertainable to third parties, such as creditors.

Now, get after those hidden assets and assets sold to his family for laptops.

That_Guy

Excellent.

Morlar

Proper order - serves him right.

I think they need to look into this loophole to ensure it is not used in future.

Sir Oxman

What about that other guy Grehan?
Can they go after him I wonder?

This could be a good week if Mahon actually publishes!

CardBordWindow

Poor Sean.

lazygal

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75418225

Epic thread here. Merge perhaps?

Sir Oxman

lazygal wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75418225

Epic thread here. Merge perhaps?

I actually meant to post this in politics or irish economy!
mods feel free to do what you will

Skid

Fair play to Mr Justice Donal Deeny for making the correct decision.

This gives us a much better chance at clawing back some of the wealth The Quinn family have hidden around the World. Every little helps.

Sykk

Ahahahah yes!

joseph brand

My breakfast went down easier upon hearing this news.

Interceptor

Meh. Like Larry Goodman and others before and after him the Irish taxpayer will be footing the bill for generations. Its too late - write it all off and start again...

'cptr

smash

Skid wrote: »

Fair play to Mr Justice Donal Deeny for making the correct decision.

If only he could force the new investors to take the hit on the losses now so we wouldn't have to pay an insurance levy to cover them.

Biggins

Skid wrote: »

Fair play to Mr Justice Donal Deeny for making the correct decision.

This gives us a much better chance at clawing back some of the wealth The Quinn family have hidden around the World. Every little helps.

He was fooling no one and delighted that the judge also seen exactly what he was up to.

admiralofthefleet

will it actually make any difference?

oldyouth

Time to secure all his remaining assets. I've an old laptop, has he any more hotels left to sell?

ilovesleep

Sean Quinn with his trait of greed helps to bankrupt Ireland with the rest at the top of the pyramid property scheme.

Something that we will be paying for in many different ways for a very long time to come. Some but not all would include:
Higher unemployment
Financial hardship
Higher taxes, less SW, less services
Broken families due to emigration, suicide.

Ireland allows these fcekers away scott free without any sort of justice (we have negligance laws that are not being used on these people) while the nation picks the tab and the pieces.

Quinn flees Ireland to the north to shake off any remaining responsibilities.

And it is other countries who come to our rescue for an ounch of justice.
David Drumm fled Ireland to the USA and it was the USA that bit his ass.
And it is the UK that is pinching Quinn's bum.

MagicSean

I lol'd when i saw that headline

Biggins

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

will it actually make any difference?

In finance amounts, it won't really but a message has been made clear - you can be chased to other countries, across borders if you wish to try and escape any responsibilities/any consequences for previous possible questionable actions.

no1beemerfan

Where I doubt it'll make any massive difference it still makes me a wee bit happier.

It'll take a long time to fully realise the damage these guys have done.

Liam Byrne

Biggins wrote: »

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

will it actually make any difference?

In finance amounts, it won't really but a message has been made clear - you can be chased to other countries, across borders if you wish to try and escape any responsibilities/any consequences for previous possible questionable actions.

What's the point in chasing them if they don't follow up by getting our money back ?

gigino

Sean Quinn was bork in the UK and started his business in Fermanagh, which for tax reasons is part of the UK , like it or not. His business grew from Fermanagh. If he had stayed in Fermanagh and never stuck his snot south of the border , he'd be better off now. He fell in to the trap of invested in Anglo Irish bank in Dublin. Thats what he gets for mixing with high nobs in Dublin like Seanie Fitzpatrick. If he did not get involved in Seanies deal he would still be solvent. If our regulator has regulated Anglo Irish bank properly he would still be solvent.
Moral of the lesson ; if he ever recovers from bankruptcy, Sean Quinn should stick to his home turf of N. Ireland and create jobs there. At least banks are properly regulated there.

The Dagda

gigino wrote: »

Sean Quinn was bork in the UK and started his business in Fermanagh, which for tax reasons is part of the UK , like it or not. His business grew from Fermanagh. If he had stayed in Fermanagh and never stuck his snot south of the border , he'd be better off now. He fell in to the trap of invested in Anglo Irish bank in Dublin. Thats what he gets for mixing with high nobs in Dublin like Seanie Fitzpatrick. If he did not get involved in Seanies deal he would still be solvent. If our regulator has regulated Anglo Irish bank properly he would still be solvent.
Moral of the lesson ; if he ever recovers from bankruptcy, Sean Quinn should stick to his home turf of N. Ireland and create jobs there. At least banks are properly regulated there.

Yeah, the problem with the whole Sean Quinn fiasco was the country, Ireland, nothing to do with a massively wealthy man's bare-faced greed! :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne

gigino wrote:

Thats what he gets for mixing with high nobs in Dublin like Seanie Fitzpatrick. If he did not get involved in Seanies deal he would still be solvent.

Are you trying to suggest that he didn't have free will to choose his own actions ?

His wife tried that bull**** tack to evade her obligations and was rightly shot down.

Biggins

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What's the point in chasing them if they don't follow up by getting our money back ?

Don't get me wrong - I hope we DO get our money back - BUT even if we don't get it all back, it does let such people know that they just aren't going to stroll away from their actions as easy as they think they can.
That in itself is a powerful message to others that they should behave.
They might not all do so but if more do out of fear then, the message itself has done some good.

Sir Oxman

gigino wrote: »

Sean Quinn was bork in the UK and started his business in Fermanagh, which for tax reasons is part of the UK , like it or not. His business grew from Fermanagh. If he had stayed in Fermanagh and never stuck his snot south of the border , he'd be better off now. He fell in to the trap of invested in Anglo Irish bank in Dublin. Thats what he gets for mixing with high nobs in Dublin like Seanie Fitzpatrick. If he did not get involved in Seanies deal he would still be solvent. If our regulator has regulated Anglo Irish bank properly he would still be solvent.
Moral of the lesson ; if he ever recovers from bankruptcy, Sean Quinn should stick to his home turf of N. Ireland and create jobs there. At least banks are properly regulated there.

"The judge described the Derrylin lease as "a somewhat curious document".

Justice Deeny added: "I conclude, on the balance of probabilities, that this lease has been prepared at some much later date to try and bolster the case now being made.""
"He commented that Mr Quinn had failed to disclose the fact that he held an Irish passport and no UK passport, that he was a voter in the Republic of Ireland and that, despite being a UK taxpayer, 20% of his taxes were paid to the authorities in the Republic. "


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16488305

The NI court rightly were not fooled by his sickening weaseling and ruled his COMI was not in the UK.

No need to fret gigino, Mr Quinn won't be knocking on the SVdeP's doors anytime ever.
His family with the transfer of massive wealth to them for the purposes of hiding his own wealth, will look after daddy.

BTW, this man has just cost Ireland another half a mill pursuing this travesty.

I wonder who'll end up paying that?

twinytwo

gigino wrote: »

Sean Quinn was bork in the UK and started his business in Fermanagh, which for tax reasons is part of the UK , like it or not. His business grew from Fermanagh. If he had stayed in Fermanagh and never stuck his snot south of the border , he'd be better off now. He fell in to the trap of invested in Anglo Irish bank in Dublin. Thats what he gets for mixing with high nobs in Dublin like Seanie Fitzpatrick. If he did not get involved in Seanies deal he would still be solvent. If our regulator has regulated Anglo Irish bank properly he would still be solvent.
Moral of the lesson ; if he ever recovers from bankruptcy, Sean Quinn should stick to his home turf of N. Ireland and create jobs there. At least banks are properly regulated there.

You do realise that he borrowed from AI to bet on/against their share prices???

He has no one to blame but himself.

pazza

Anyone know what the difference with Sean Quinn and David Drumm is i.e. why is he allowed to have bankruptcy in the US, I would have though his " centre of main interest was in the Republic of Ireland and not " in the US?

Skid

The full judgement is very readable and is quite entertaining.

Quinn made a pig's ear of his application, the Judge tore it to shreds.

http://namawinelake.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/quinnjudgmentbelfast.pdf

MagicSean

Skid wrote: »

The full judgement is very readable and is quite entertaining.

Quinn made a pig's ear of his application, the Judge tore it to shreds.

http://namawinelake.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/quinnjudgmentbelfast.pdf

The judge accepted it. They declared him bankrupt. Anglo tore it to shreds and if it wasn't for their tenacity he would be laughing pretty. They may have made a balls up in the past but they deserve the credit for this.

JustAddWater

Skid wrote: »

The full judgement is very readable and is quite entertaining.

Quinn made a pig's ear of his application, the Judge tore it to shreds.

http://namawinelake.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/quinnjudgmentbelfast.pdf

JOHN IGNATIUS QUINN???

:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

*wwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaa*

Stiffler2

HAHA

hope they sell the socks off his feet

padraig47

CardBordWindow wrote: »

Poor Sean.

Poor Adolf while you are at it

padraig47

gigino wrote: »

Sean Quinn was bork in the UK and started his business in Fermanagh, which for tax reasons is part of the UK , like it or not. His business grew from Fermanagh. If he had stayed in Fermanagh and never stuck his snot south of the border , he'd be better off now. He fell in to the trap of invested in Anglo Irish bank in Dublin. Thats what he gets for mixing with high nobs in Dublin like Seanie Fitzpatrick. If he did not get involved in Seanies deal he would still be solvent. If our regulator has regulated Anglo Irish bank properly he would still be solvent.
Moral of the lesson ; if he ever recovers from bankruptcy, Sean Quinn should stick to his home turf of N. Ireland and create jobs there. At least banks are properly regulated there.

What about the border and cross-border commerce. Would you not feel that was a factor in the Quinn groups "success"?

Tayla

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

will it actually make any difference?

Probably not a huge difference in the grand scheme of things but it is only right that he loses these assets that should not belong to him. This sense of entitlement that he and his family have is sickening.

Wudyaquit

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

will it actually make any difference?

Absolutely none, other than IBRC can pat themselves on the back despite being now out an additional half million from the legal fees in pursuing the case. There was no possible scenario this case would have resulted in the taxpayer being better off.

Tayla wrote: »

Probably not a huge difference in the grand scheme of things but it is only right that he loses these assets that should not belong to him.

His assets were gone when he was declared bankrupt - when he's bankrupted in the south it will be exactly the same situation.

hollypink

pazza wrote: »

Anyone know what the difference with Sean Quinn and David Drumm is i.e. why is he allowed to have bankruptcy in the US, I would have though his " centre of main interest was in the Republic of Ireland and not " in the US?

If it's any consolation, in David Drumm's case, it's been agreed that his Malahide home will be sold to pay off his debts even though he had transferred it into his wife's name http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1202/drummd-business.html

Mr Drumm bought the house in Abington in Malahide in 2003 but as the financial collapse accelerated in 2009 and Anglo Irish Bank was nationalised, he transferred the property into the sole name of his wife Lorraine Drumm.

However, Anglo Irish Bank said this was fraudulent and brought a case against the couple. The transfer was then reversed.

Now the bankruptcy trustee in Boston has agreed with all parties that she will sell the house

Also the US court ruled that his Cape Cod home bought for $4.6 million in 2008 can be sold off as well, overruling his claim it was his main residence.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/1018/1224305995170.html

The independent trustee, Kathleen Dwyer, said Mr Drumm was not eligible because the house was not his principal residence and, as an Irish citizen and resident in the US during the 730-day period only on a temporary visa, did not establish “domiciliary status”.

No response was filed to Ms Dwyer’s objection, the court said. “Accordingly, the homestead exemption is hereby disallowed in its entirely,” the court ruled.

The court granted approval to Ms Dwyer to sell Mr Drumm’s Cape Cod home for $3.88 million (€2.8 million) and its furnishings and fittings for $150,000. He bought the house in March 2008 for $4.6 million.

oldyouth

gigino wrote: »

Moral of the lesson ; if he ever recovers from bankruptcy, Sean Quinn should stick to his home turf of N. Ireland and create jobs there. At least banks are properly regulated there.

The moral of the lesson here is that, if he stuck to his own turf in N. Ireland, there would be an awful lot more jobs down here now. Greedy bollooks.

take everything

pazza wrote: »

Anyone know what the difference with Sean Quinn and David Drumm is i.e. why is he allowed to have bankruptcy in the US, I would have though his " centre of main interest was in the Republic of Ireland and not " in the US?

This is what i'd like to know as well.
As welcome as this news is, i can't shake the feeling the real insiders will be treated differently. Quinn isn't one of them so it's hard to shake the feeling he's just an expendable fallguy.

Tayla

Wudyaquit wrote: »

His assets were gone when he was declared bankrupt - when he's bankrupted in the south it will be exactly the same situation.

His family have plenty of assets.

Wudyaquit

Tayla wrote: »

His family have plenty of assets.

Which would be as recoverable against his debts as your communion money would be, if they weren't already offset against massive debts of their own.

Not sure how you feel him being declared bankrupt in the south is going to mean he loses additional assets compared to being bankrupt in the north but his children's assets are entirely irrelevant to that issue.

Sir Oxman

But he cannot be let away with what he attempted to do!
It's not good enough to say oh well, it's too much trouble to bother challenging this person because it costs too much!

AFAIK, any transferring of wealth to elsewhere over the past few years can be looked into, investigated and struck down if it's found he did so to avoid declaring his full assets before bankruptcy.

Quinn has not been upfront and truthful and thats's plain to see - and that's why there is enormous disdain for him and his family.

woodoo

Sling him in jail and let his wife bail him out for €2.5 billion.

ilovesleep

woodoo wrote: »

Sling him in jail and let his wife bail him out for €2.5 billion.

You should know better. The law and jail is only for the paupers of Ireland:
http://www.politics.ie/forum/justice/178647-nearly-7-000-people-jailed-not-paying-fines.html

Jim_Kiy

Knock them down.. ..a great business man reduce to status of a bum.I mean look at us!
The romans where positively civilized compared to the hounding of this man.

gigino

If Anglo Irish bank had been regulated properly he would not have "invested" in it and history would now be different.

The regulator / central bank / government should be hounded.

Quinn started off with one truck and a small quarry in N. Ireland. He should have stuck in the safer business environment of the UK. Not stuck his snout or taken risks in this banana republic.

Liam Byrne

Wudyaquit wrote: »

Tayla wrote: »

His family have plenty of assets.

Which would be as recoverable against his debts as your communion money would be, if they weren't already offset against massive debts of their own.

Not sure how you feel him being declared bankrupt in the south is going to mean he loses additional assets compared to being bankrupt in the north but his children's assets are entirely irrelevant to that issue.

Many of "his children's assets" haven't been paid for and so aren't - under any stretch of imagination or fairness - their assets.

He transferred them in a despicable low-life attempt to prevent the unpaid-for assets being repossessed.

The fact is that they are OUR assets, as we are the ones paying the bill for them. And I reckon we should all go to OUR house and stay the night and have a house party.

gigino

gambiaman wrote: »

Justice Deeny added: "I conclude, on the balance of probabilities, that this lease has been prepared at some much later date to try and bolster the case now being made.""
"He commented that Mr Quinn had failed to disclose the fact that he held an Irish passport and no UK passport, that he was a voter in the Republic of Ireland and that, despite being a UK taxpayer, 20% of his taxes were paid to the authorities in the Republic. "

So 80% of his taxes were paid to her majesty's government ? And he was not allowed to declare himself bankrupt there because of his disastrous investment outside that jurisdiction in a bank in the banana republic ?

doomed

Question 1 (100% of marks)

Who should pay for Sean Quinn's stupidity in gambling everything he had and more on the flip of a shareprice; is it

(a) Sean Quinn and his family (to the extent that they either guaranteed the loans or property was transferred)?

(b) the people of Ireland

gigino

Question 1 (100% of marks)

Would Sean Quinn's have gambling everything he had and more on Anglo if he had not been conned by Seannie Fitzpatrick of Anglo ....and if Anglo Irish Bank had been properly regulated ?

Sean Quinn came from a first world country, he should not have invested here given our banking regulation was worse than any African Country.

Its ironic he came from cowboy country but yet he was ambushed by the cowboys in suits in Dublin.

There should be a health warning for people outside the jurisdiction investing in Ireland. Look at what happened poor Sean Quinn.....from a multi billionaire - who would gamble no more than a fiver on his weekly game of cards - to a bankrupt ....because he trusted our banking regulation and invested here.

Liam Byrne

gigino wrote: »

Question 1 (100% of marks)

Would Sean Quinn's have gambling everything he had and more on Anglo if he had not been conned by Seannie Fitzpatrick of Anglo ....and if Anglo Irish Bank had been properly regulated ?

Sean Quinn came from a first world country, he should not have invested here given our banking regulation was worse than any African Country.

Its ironic he came from cowboy country but yet he was ambushed by the cowboys in suits in Dublin.

There should be a health warning for people outside the jurisdiction investing in Ireland. Look at what happened poor Sean Quinn.....from a multi billionaire - who would gamble no more than a fiver on his weekly game of cards - to a bankrupt ....because he trusted our banking regulation and invested here.

I can only assume that your posts are dripping with irony.

gigino

the truth hurts;)