Munster V Castres H/C Rnd5 - Sat 14th @ 15:40

messi1985

jaysus, cant see munster beating northampton! we are scraping victories by the skin of our teeth and u can only imagine how much they will want to win after how we basically knocked them out with that drop goal.. i know it was only the first game but i believe things would have been much different for them if they had won that game

Judgement Day

Another horrible performance (apart from Paul O'Connell and ROG) but enough to keep things on track. Some day soon all these wild passes are going to stick - hopefully against Leinster!


C'MON MUNSTER!

Amazotheamazing

Tox56 wrote: »

Murray made some very good breaks, but he is still so slow at the breakdown, and made a few mistakes as a result. I'd say he's a work in progress.

Put Murray behind a backrow that is providing clean ball (ie Ferris and SOB) and he'll be much faster, imo. TOL was a lot more aggressive at getting the ball out, it's something Murray has to (and will) learn.

thomond2006

messi1985 wrote: »

jaysus, cant see munster beating northampton! we are scraping victories by the skin of our teeth and u can only imagine how much they will want to win after how we basically knocked them out with that drop goal.. i know it was only the first game but i believe things would have been much different for them if they had won that game

Why not? Northampton aren't great either.

messi1985

thomond2006 wrote: »

Why not? Northampton aren't great either.

but north are playing better than munster AT THE MOMENT..dont get me wrong, im 110 % behind the boys but wary of a backlash.. plus theyll be fighting tooth and nail for challenge cup.. cant see munster scoring tries over there, 9 in H C this year isnt great.. we dont look like a team that can beat them at the moment.. please god i hope im wrong!! after 5 wins from 5 and not get a home 1/4 would be disaster

twinytwo

messi1985 wrote: »

but north are playing better than munster AT THE MOMENT..dont get me wrong, im 110 % behind the boys but wary of a backlash.. plus theyll be fighting tooth and nail for challenge cup.. cant see munster scoring tries over there, 9 in H C this year isnt great.. we dont look like a team that can beat them at the moment.. please god i hope im wrong!! after 5 wins from 5 and not get a home 1/4 would be disaster

i would say we can take them, i wouldnt be surprised if they went out to hurt some of our players though... a lot of players on that team with bruised ego's.

Foxtrol

twinytwo wrote: »

i would say we can take them, i wouldnt be surprised if they went out to hurt some of our players though... a lot of players on that team with bruised ego's.

That's extremely harsh to say that any player will go out to intentionally injure another.

The few games that NH have turned up in the Premiership they've looked very good but most of what I've seen from them this year (especially in the HC) has been poor.

Munster definitely have the capability of turning them over but I expect NH to be made out to be world beaters all week in the build up.

Fireball07

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

So, other than Keith Earls, how did the other 22 players play? I didn't see much the match and it would be great if the Earls-bashing could be left to the 3 threads already dedicated to it.

To be fair, he was quite poor.

Zebo wasn't great either, Mafi seemed to make stupid mistakes aswell and I thought Hurley was the best of the outside backs.

ROG was very good, his best all-round performance of the season imo and the pack to be fair were very strong again. POC and Ryan were both immense, our scrum was completely on top, destroyed them really, Botha is so vital there. Varley's darts were good, the lineout was solid...and both Coughlan and POM were good too.


Really sickened about Ronan's injury, looked horrible and adds another name to the list.

Flincher

Foxtrol wrote: »

That's extremely harsh to say that any player will go out to intentionally injure another.

The few games that NH have turned up in the Premiership they've looked very good but most of what I've seen from them this year (especially in the HC) has been poor.

Munster definitely have the capability of turning them over but I expect NH to be made out to be world beaters all week in the build up.

cough Courtney Lawes cough

Northampton are in a bit of form. They put in an excellent performance against Quins, and that was far from their first choice team which put Llanelli away today. They will also be massively up for the game after what happened in Thomond and they have a chance of making the Amlin.

We have the incentive of a home quarter final, probably against one of the best placed pool runners up. A lot on the line for both teams.

irishbucsfan

I thought POM was very good off the ball, but it seemed every time he took the ball into contact Munster lost it or something similar, on one he conceded a penalty, on one the ball was caught up and resulted in a scrum, another time he was run into touch (and hurt himself). Ball security and presentation is something he'll have to be better at, and that might mean asking him to be less aggresive with his carrying.

thomond2006

Like Blackbeard, I saw very little of the game. The bits I saw had some horrendous passes by Keet.

So with Ronan almost certainly out, it will 6 Ryan 7 POM 8 Coughlan next week?

Who will be backrow cover on the bench? DOC2.0 is the only out and out backrower left in the HEC squad, is he even fit?

Redsock

I was very impressed with Ryan. I thought DOC was unfortunate not to be starting games but after today it would seem relatively cut and dried who the best 4 in Munster is.

Benny Cake

thomond2006 wrote: »

So with Ronan almost certainly out, it will 6 Ryan 7 POM 8 Coughlan next week?

Who will be backrow cover on the bench? DOC2.0 is the only out and out backrower left in the HEC squad that's fit aside from POM and Coughlan! (Butler, Leamy, TOD all out)

Back row next week will probably be: Ryan, POM, Coughlan
DOC will partner POC in the second row with Holland & Nagle on the bench. Thats my reading of it anyway...

CIARAN_BOYLE

thomond2006 wrote: »

Who will be backrow cover on the bench? DOC2.0 is the only out and out backrower left in the HEC squad, is he even fit?

Probably Holland with Nagle/MOD covering lock

irishbucsfan

If O'Mahoney gets injured next week, which is a real possibility, then Munster a fcuked against that Nortampton pack.

thomond2006

Benny Cake wrote: »

Back row next week will probably be: Ryan, POM, Coughlan
DOC will partner POC in the second row with Holland & Nagle on the bench. Thats my reading of it anyway...

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Probably Holland with Nagle/MOD covering lock

That's probably what will happen. I'd personally go for MOD and Holland, for experience sake.

Foxtrol

Flincher wrote: »

cough Courtney Lawes cough

Northampton are in a bit of form. They put in an excellent performance against Quins, and that was far from their first choice team which put Llanelli away today. They will also be massively up for the game after what happened in Thomond and they have a chance of making the Amlin.

We have the incentive of a home quarter final, probably against one of the best placed pool runners up. A lot on the line for both teams.

Lawes is currently injured and to be honest I think he gets unfair stick on here as the majority of his hits are not illegal just big (and with his engine he's capable of being in the position of making a lot of them in a game). Either way the actions of one player doesn't give a poster the right to label NH as a team who will go out with the aim to injure Munster players due to bruised ego's (I actually cant see how their ego's would be bruised in the first place).

How are they far from first choice, who else do you expect to be brought in against Munster? I think everyone that was missing today is unlikely to make it next week. I thought both the Scarlets and NH were dire today. I agree NH were good against Quins but that doesn't cover up how poor they've been for the majority of the season. They have also moved the game away from the Gardens so despite it being a sell out playing at home wont be quite the advantage it otherwise would have been.

bleg

It's pretty mad that an ageing Munster team, that has had so many injuries to so many front line players, is still the first team to qualify for the knockout stages. The guys keep getting an absolute hammering from the media but in fairness like what that group of players has done in that group is absolutely unreal.

GerM

bleg wrote: »

It's pretty mad that an ageing Munster team, that has had so many injuries to so many front line players, is still the first team to qualify for the knockout stages. The guys keep getting an absolute hammering from the media but in fairness like what that group of players has done in that group is absolutely unreal.

It's not really. I'm blue in the face from saying the Scarlets are an average side that people have suddenly assumed are a good side on the basis of Wales doing well in the WC. They've a weak pack and a talented but clueless back line. Northampton are a good side, not a great one. A freak knock on walking over the line and the coolest head in the history of the HEC won Munster's game against them. I think they'll be well up against it next week and it will be by far the best measure of where Munster truly are. Castres care not for the HEC. They moved their home game to a city 70 miles away that was boycotted by their supporters.

I'm happy that Munster are progressing especially with the emergence of POM, Zebo (who still has some way to go) and Ryan who all have international futures ahead of them but there's no point in sugar coating it. Get an away QF and they're out I would think. As Sky put it today, it's a funny situation; Munster deserve absolute credit for getting to where they are but there's no side in the tournament that would fear playing them.

GerM

Redsock wrote: »

I was very impressed with Ryan. I thought DOC was unfortunate not to be starting games but after today it would seem relatively cut and dried who the best 4 in Munster is.

He was superb today. You can see that he knows he's finally the man in pole position and is well primed for it. Every break in play he was roaring at the troops, geeing them up. In the loose he was immense. If he can replicate that form for Ireland, I'd have little issue with him being the first choice 4.

DOC, however, shouldn't be near the 22. Tuohy and Toner both make far more sense given the options and versatility we have in the back row.

Tox56

Didn't see it mentioned, but O'Mahony looked impressive in the lineout today. Is he known for that? Having a jumper as good as he looked in the backrow would be a real bonus for Ireland.

CiaranMT

GerM wrote: »

It's not really. I'm blue in the face from saying the Scarlets are an average side that people have suddenly assumed are a good side on the basis of Wales doing well in the WC. They've a weak pack and a talented but clueless back line. Northampton are a good side, not a great one. A freak knock on walking over the line and the coolest head in the history of the HEC won Munster's game against them. I think they'll be well up against it next week and it will be by far the best measure of where Munster truly are. Castres care not for the HEC. They moved their home game to a city 70 miles away that was boycotted by their supporters.

I'm happy that Munster are progressing especially with the emergence of POM, Zebo (who still has some way to go) and Ryan who all have international futures ahead of them but there's no point in sugar coating it. Get an away QF and they're out I would think. As Sky put it today, it's a funny situation; Munster deserve absolute credit for getting to where they are but there's no side in the tournament that would fear playing them.

Well said.

Benny Cake wrote: »

Back row next week will probably be: Ryan, POM, Coughlan
DOC will partner POC in the second row with Holland & Nagle on the bench. Thats my reading of it anyway...

That's what I'd go for.

This injury situation is farcical. Tbh I don't think Ronan should have played today. Obviously staff thought he was fit enough, but was it worth the risk? Munster were always going to beat Castres and really, they should have been looking ahead to the Northampton game and keeping Ronan for that.

CiaranMT

GerM wrote: »

He was superb today. You can see that he knows he's finally the man in pole position and is well primed for it. Every break in play he was roaring at the troops, geeing them up. In the loose he was immense. If he can replicate that form for Ireland, I'd have little issue with him being the first choice 4.

DOC, however, shouldn't be near the 22. Tuohy and Toner both make far more sense given the options and versatility we have in the back row.

I'd take McCarthy over Toner.

Tox56

CiaranMT wrote: »

I'd take McCarthy over Toner.

Basically a coin toss, they've both been great this season.

GerM

CiaranMT wrote: »

I'd take McCarthy over Toner.

Fair point. He has been superb whenever I've seen him this season but I think DK is going to see Ryan as filling that role and is going to look for an out and out lock for the bench if Ryan is playing.

GerM

Tox56 wrote: »

Didn't see it mentioned, but O'Mahony looked impressive in the lineout today. Is he known for that? Having a jumper as good as he looked in the backrow would be a real bonus for Ireland.

Yup, he's an athletic and solid jumper. 6'3 but not heavy so can be thrown into air quickly. He's not Bonnaire but he's definitely able to do a good job there. With experience and coaching, hopefully he'll work on his reading of opposition line outs and be a serious threat on their ball.

Amazotheamazing

bleg wrote: »

It's pretty mad that an ageing Munster team, that has had so many injuries to so many front line players, is still the first team to qualify for the knockout stages. The guys keep getting an absolute hammering from the media but in fairness like what that group of players has done in that group is absolutely unreal.

Wian - 29
Varley - 28
Botha - 32
POC - 32
Ryan - 28
POM - 22
Ronan - 29
Coughlan - 31

Average age 28.875

Murray - 22
O'Gara - 34
Zebo - 22
Mafi - 29
Earls - 24
Murphy - 27
Hurley - 27

Average age 26.43

Horan - 34
Archer - 23
Fogs - 28
DOC - 32
Holland - 26
TOL - 28
Keatley - 24
Barnes - 22

Average age 27.125

Are Munster really that old? Average across the 23 is 27.48

Amazotheamazing

Tox56 wrote: »

Didn't see it mentioned, but O'Mahony looked impressive in the lineout today. Is he known for that? Having a jumper as good as he looked in the backrow would be a real bonus for Ireland.

He used to call the lineouts when he was the Irish u20's captain, iirc.

GerM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Are Munster really that old? Average across the 23 is 27.48

Unfortunately, the players that count are getting on. ROG is a once in a generation player. POC is a once in a generation player. Botha is someone that has turned Munster's scrum around. In 18 months 2 of them will be gone and the other will be 34 and winding down.

Absolute credit to Munster's achievement particularly the freakish injury list which is often forgotten but the problems are still there. ROG is irreplaceable. Something drastic needs to be done to fill the void he will leave. After next week, he'll have one more HEC pool stages with Munster and then into the great unknown. I've said it elsewhere but Munster could do worse than starting a recruitment drive right now on Morne Steyn and a quality, creative 12 right now to play outside him. Get it all in place and they'll be well placed.

Amazotheamazing

GerM wrote: »

Unfortunately, the players that count are getting on. ROG is a once in a generation player. POC is a once in a generation player. Botha is someone that has turned Munster's scrum around. In 18 months 2 of them will be gone and the other will be 34 and winding down.

Absolute credit to Munster's achievement particularly the freakish injury list which is often forgotten but the problems are still there. ROG is irreplaceable. Something drastic needs to be done to fill the void he will leave. After next week, he'll have one more HEC pool stages with Munster and then into the great unknown. I've said it elsewhere but Munster could do worse than starting a recruitment drive right now on Morne Steyn and a quality, creative 12 right now to play outside him. Get it all in place and they'll be well placed.

I suspect we probably will buy someone in to replace O'Gara, after all, it's unrealistic to expect us to produce a legend as good as O'Gara just as O'Gara retires. On the otherhand, we have a bit of time yet, Keatley could come good.

Wrt to the others, I don't see why you think POC will wind down so soon, Shawe played great stuff for the Lions at 37 and we have a good few replacement locks in the system. Hopefully by the time POC steps aside, POM or someone else will have been captain for a while.