Cost of milking parlour upgrade?

cowmilk

Planning on starting milking from a existing 6 unit parlour milked 60 in past requiring about 2hrs. Existing parlour has glass jars and uses manual cluster removal. Existing setup is about 30 years old. Hope to upgrade and "future proof" parlor in order to reduce time in parlour and allowfor expanding cow numbers. What costs should I expect to retrofit a 12, 14, 16, 18, 20 unit set-up?

P.S. greatly appreciate your input.
Regards the prodigal son.

whelan1

how much room have you got , are you extending the exsisting parlour?

cowmilk

whelan1 wrote: »

how much room have you got , are you extending the exsisting parlour?

Aim would be to get a highly efficient set-up as much as possible (automatic cluster removal) use existing building. Possibility for extension of units would be about 21 feet. Current units are concrete (milker faces cow at angle of about 60 degrees) and could be removed and replacement units would be more compact (milker faces rear of cow). Am I correct in presuming that new unit setup saves parlour length for the same number of units (i.e. 6 units)? Any idea of recommended manufacturer and cost?

johnboy6930

cowmilk wrote: »

Aim would be to get a highly efficient set-up as much as possible (automatic cluster removal) use existing building. Possibility for extension of units would be about 21 feet. Current units are concrete (milker faces cow at angle of about 60 degrees) and could be removed and replacement units would be more compact (milker faces rear of cow). Am I correct in presuming that new unit setup saves parlour length for the same number of units (i.e. 6 units)? Any idea of recommended manufacturer and cost?

farmer next to put in a top of the range 14 unit. 7 aside with automatic cluster removal.automatic rashen dispenser semi automatic entering gates and so on.he has a 2000 gallon storage tank. and there are about ten monitors in around the tank to control all different things around the parlor. his parlor over all is about 40 feet long .its by dairy master he milks 111 cow all year around. cost him about 90 thousand to put in:cool:

cowmilk

johnboy6930 wrote: »

farmer next to put in a top of the range 14 unit. 7 aside with automatic cluster removal.automatic rashen dispenser semi automatic entering gates and so on.he has a 2000 gallon storage tank. and there are about ten monitors in around the tank to control all different things around the parlor. his parlor over all is about 40 feet long .its by dairy master he milks 111 cow all year around. cost him about 90 thousand to put in:cool:

Hi Johnboy. How long does it take him to milk 111 cows? Does the 90 k include the cost of the heavy infracture (foundations, walls, roof etc)? or was thin just the cost of retrofitting a new 14 unit parlour? Was this a recent purchase or was it a Celtic Tiger milking parlour?

Greatly appreciate the advice here.

johnboy6930

cowmilk wrote: »

Hi Johnboy. How long does it take him to milk 111 cows? Does the 90 k include the cost of the heavy infracture (foundations, walls, roof etc)? or was thin just the cost of retrofitting a new 14 unit parlour? Was this a recent purchase or was it a Celtic Tiger milking parlour?

Greatly appreciate the advice here.

takes him the best of 4 hours to get through them.(this time of year)the 90k was just for the 14 unit parlour and tank and coolers etc.not 100% sure if that included fitting or not..it was installed into were he had his previous parlour.it was bought in 2008 from what i remembered.and milk prices were very bad in 2009 which put a huge strain on him.if you were to buy now i would more than certain it could be 10-15k less..what size milk tank were you planning on putting in??

Viewtodiefor

johnboy6930 wrote: »

cowmilk wrote: »

Hi Johnboy. How long does it take him to milk 111 cows? Does the 90 k include the cost of the heavy infracture (foundations, walls, roof etc)? or was thin just the cost of retrofitting a new 14 unit parlour? Was this a recent purchase or was it a Celtic Tiger milking parlour?

Greatly appreciate the advice here.

takes him the best of 4 hours to get through them.(this time of year)the 90k was just for the 14 unit parlour and tank and coolers etc.not 100% sure if that included fitting or not..it was installed into were he had his previous parlour.it was bought in 2008 from what i remembered.and milk prices were very bad in 2009 which put a huge strain on him.if you were to buy now i would more than certain it could be 10-15k less..what size milk tank were you planning on putting in??

Lads just some of my thoughts on this, I installed milking parlors a few yers ago. 4 hours to milk 111 cows is a very poor return on 90k investment you want to be trying to milk that number in a little with an hour for a one man operation, research shows that for one man a midline plant ie. Machine will get the fastest flowthrough of cows, maximum without cluster removers for one man I'd say would be 12 units and at that you would be moving! Sixteen is very feasible for one man with cluster removers! Biggest problem without them is overmilking, after that you have to look at your cow standing options I.e. Side by side or back to back. Back to back or two foot two centers gives better cow control and is my preference for larger parlours with baling. There is automatic or sequential baling but it adds circa 20k ish to new parlor unless u can do it urself, having talked to people with it they think it saves then one min ish per row as faster outflow of cows. Ontop of that you have extras milk meters dump line la la la but my advise is put in units and removers and have it in such away as u can upgrade later if u need. Are all these extras worth the huge money I'm not so sure

Anything as large as a 16 unit won't come cheap unless u do some of the work urself but then u want it done right too so b careful


Thts my two penny bit!

dannycorona

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/dairycattle/2789590

Seen this the other day, think he was lookin for 12k last week. think its a snip compared to your 90k. what ye think of installing 2nd hand milking parlour? i know the risk of buying private is always there, but 90k to milk for 4hours seems like a waste of time to me

johnboy6930

dannycorona wrote: »

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/dairycattle/2789590

Seen this the other day, think he was lookin for 12k last week. think its a snip compared to your 90k. what ye think of installing 2nd hand milking parlour? i know the risk of buying private is always there, but 90k to milk for 4hours seems like a waste of time to me

the reason it takes 4 hours this time of year is because he feeds them alot of rashen due to lack of grass now..so if each cows is stood there for just a minute and a half extra..it soon adds up..during the summer he would be giving them little or no rashen so it could he hour hour and half milking

stanflt

johnboy6930 wrote: »

the reason it takes 4 hours this time of year is because he feeds them alot of rashen due to lack of grass now..so if each cows is stood there for just a minute and a half extra..it soon adds up..during the summer he would be giving them little or no rashen so it could he hour hour and half milking

cows milk no slower if they are being feed ration or not

johnboy6930

stanflt wrote: »

cows milk no slower if they are being feed ration or not

no one said thats cows milk slower if there being feed rashen. if the cow is milked and there still eating the rashen he must wait for them to finish

whelan1

well if its slowing him down he shouldnt be feeding that amount, feed more on the silage or something,or feed them as soon as they enter the parlour, coarse ration takes longer to eat, give them nuts

Viewtodiefor

If he is doing this he needs to have a good look at his system! just from what i can pick up from here it seems like total madness! Can anyone imagine waiting for maybe ten minutes or more after cows have been milked to finish eating! you want to get your cows in and out as fast as possible with the least fuss and stress on man and beast for me this would do my head in and especially after spending 90k on a parlour! My idea of that would be that id have d cows milked in an hour n i could feck off n get the kids to school! or go measure some grass or something!

whelan1

at the minute i milk 105 cows in a 15 unit parlour in 90 minutes in the morning, that is doing scrapers, feeding calves and washing up... in the summer i do 145 cows in the same time:o takes a little over an hour in the evening but i wouldhave a good few of the srapers done before milking in the evening... have acrs

bbam

Not having milked a cow in quite a while most would say I shouldn't comment here.. I did however work for a leading equipment supplier for 5 years..

It's fine getting by with an old plant but when designing a new system you should be aiming to milk from first cow in to last cow out in an hour during the busy time... I've seen plenty of dairy farmers spending 3 hours morning & evening under their cows in a pit... It leaves time for other essential work very tight and keeps the cows standing round far too long in the yard when they should be out in the paddocks...

Midline parlours work out most efficient, OP should be looking at 14 units and leave place for another 4/6. Jars or if cash is easy electronic meters are a nice touch... Put in required infrastructure for ACR's but I wouldn't panic with 14 units and one good man in the pit, a little overmilking on a good machine will do no harm.. Automatic feeders (if any), automatic gates...

A parallel parlour works out expensive and isn't as efficient as a midline, I think it works out at 2/3 efficiency, 12 units parallel = 9 midline and would only be recommended where the length of the pit is restricted and the throughput is essential regardless of cost...

OP should get advice from a reputable dealer or even get a couple in to see what their pitch is like in terms of design... I'd only recommend one supplier though

stanflt

last year we upgraded the parlour from a six unit jar alfa laval to a 10 unit dairymaster with all the bells and whistles


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at 10k a unit id consider it money well spent

funny man

cowmilk wrote: »

Planning on starting milking from a existing 6 unit parlour milked 60 in past requiring about 2hrs. Existing parlour has glass jars and uses manual cluster removal. Existing setup is about 30 years old. Hope to upgrade and "future proof" parlor in order to reduce time in parlour and allowfor expanding cow numbers. What costs should I expect to retrofit a 12, 14, 16, 18, 20 unit set-up?

P.S. greatly appreciate your input.
Regards the prodigal son.

How many cows do you intend to milk?

cowmilk

funny man wrote: »

How many cows do you intend to milk?

Aim is to start off where old man left off. 60 cows milking is my baseline. I want to allow for expansion beyond this point to 80-100.

I intend to buy calves over about 2 years in order to stagger high purchase cost currently. Alternatively I may just buy a herd, but more than likely I will just purchase calves.

5live

I have a 14 unit delaval, 2'6" centres with jars and room for 6 more units. I milk in a little over an hour at peak and an hour and 20 during calving, tops. 90 cows and no acrs or feeders or backing gates. I always feed a pinch of ration to get cows in, until i get a backing gate but feeders are my next priority. 1000 gal average but will be back to 1200 in 2 years once a few health issues sorted. There are no bells or whistles there except a variable speed milk pump. A simple rope to release cows and a pivoted bar at the back to hold them in was as far as my hi-tech went at the time.

As was suggested before, look at different parlours and try to get milking in them as you will be stuck with it for a good few years if you make a mistake. Second hand is a good option as the cost is halved but the hassle of dismantling a parlour is there too.

I am happy out with mine and the only thing i would change would be feeders but finance is limited so i will soldier on for another 2 years.

Sorry i cant get prices but my machine new was 25k 9 years ago. The other major supplier was 3k dearer for the same spec, make what you will of that. Best of luck with your purchase

whelan1

cowmilk wrote: »

Aim is to start off where old man left off. 60 cows milking is my baseline. I want to allow for expansion beyond this point to 80-100.

I intend to buy calves over about 2 years in order to stagger high purchase cost currently. Alternatively I may just buy a herd, but more than likely I will just purchase calves.

worst thing about buying in is disease, i learned the hard way, have nearly every disease under the sun now thanks to other people problems

funny man

fine parlour stanflt any idea on full plant price? is there any natural light in it, looks dark from the photo.

funny man

johnboy6930 wrote: »

farmer next to put in a top of the range 14 unit. 7 aside with automatic cluster removal.automatic rashen dispenser semi automatic entering gates and so on.he has a 2000 gallon storage tank. and there are about ten monitors in around the tank to control all different things around the parlor. his parlor over all is about 40 feet long .its by dairy master he milks 111 cow all year around. cost him about 90 thousand to put in:cool:

I had to read this twice to understand what was wrong or how it could take so long to milk 111 cows in a 14 unit parlour. this parlour would be known as a 7 unit double up which usually would be the equivalent of a 10 unit straight which still wouldn't explain the 4 hours so it must be down to poor routine and excess idle time out of the parlour sorting cows, anyway double ups are usually used to prevent large spending by installing a cheap second hand machine along with the existing one so no extra infastructure is needed, at 90k all i'll say is it sounds poor value for money.

funny man

cowmilk wrote: »

Aim is to start off where old man left off. 60 cows milking is my baseline. I want to allow for expansion beyond this point to 80-100.

I intend to buy calves over about 2 years in order to stagger high purchase cost currently. Alternatively I may just buy a herd, but more than likely I will just purchase calves.

for what it's worth i'd try to figure out how many cows you plan to milk (ballpark) add 10%, so say 100 + 10% 110 divide by number of rows (ideally 8 i.e 8 rows x 8mins = 64 ) = 13.75 rounded up gives you 14 units. reading your post you said you have 21' and at 2'6" centres this would allow you put in another 8 units with a little over, your best bet is to talk to milking machine fitters to see what is possible but be aware these guys have done all the salesman courses so they will more than likely try to convince you that cluster removers, auto id and auto wash is a must, but these gadgets will only save a few minutes unlike a drafting system which is much more beneficial.

JohnBoy

Mid line, parallell, double up and straight.


Explain please.

I've been in a few parlours and have done milking in the past, but I was young and not really interested in the technicalities of it, just trying to avoid getting used as a jacks!


I'm curious as to how the different types of parlour allow more or less efficiency per unit. I assume a unit is a cluster basically?


I thought the only real difference (ignoring rotaries) was the angle the cows were stood at, and whether they can get out in front of their stall, or at the end of the row.

bbam

Double up's or parallel are the same. Units down both side. The units are idle as you empty/re fill/prep cows for milking which reduces efficiency of the total number of units.
A herringbone parlour has units down the centre and then the spacing of the units changes depending if you are milking between back legs or before.

There are many configurations but herringbone is the most time and cost efficient.

JohnBoy

ah, never seen a double up. so less effecient from a machinery cost point of view, but more efficient from an overall throughput perspective?

whelan1

was at dep/teagasc/glanbia farm expansion thingy this morning, thay are saying 8 rows is enough to be milking , so they where saying to divide the target number of cows by 8 to gwet how many units you will need... i would have no problem milking more than 8 rows:cool:

dar31

whelan1 wrote: »

was at dep/teagasc/glanbia farm expansion thingy this morning, thay are saying 8 rows is enough to be milking , so they where saying to divide the target number of cows by 8 to gwet how many units you will need... i would have no problem milking more than 8 rows:cool:

was it any good, ours is on next week.
was milking 18 rows for a while last spring.
10 -12 rows would be more like it, not much more than that though

whelan1

yup, opened my eyes abit, BUT they still couldnt answer what restrictions there will be on production once quotas go, that is to be decided by glanbia in late february, so that puts the brakes on expansion until then... i also asked where are all these extra cows going to come from?

Tipp Man

whelan1 wrote: »

i also asked where are all these extra cows going to come from?

they'll be coming from Cork

stanflt

whelan1 wrote: »

was at dep/teagasc/glanbia farm expansion thingy this morning, thay are saying 8 rows is enough to be milking , so they where saying to divide the target number of cows by 8 to gwet how many units you will need... i would have no problem milking more than 8 rows:cool:

did you get your free teagasc dairy manual

whelan1

stanflt wrote: »

did you get your free teagasc dairy manual

yes, bedtime reading:D didnt open it yet, was your on yet?

whelan1

Tipp Man wrote: »

they'll be coming from Cork

when i worked out my figures , i would be able to sustain another 75 cows:eek: now after being bitten from buying in cows , i am not going to buy in stock, so will be relying on my own , which are eventually now coming through and i will be back up to 2009 cow numbers again this year...they had a profile of a farmer who had 48 cows 5 years ago and through his own breeding now has 105 cows, bought in no cows at all... the point was also made on milk price , how would we live on 15cpl:eek: one guy said sure we all survived 2009...

cowmilk

stanflt wrote: »

did you get your free teagasc dairy manual

What does the Teagasc Dairy Manual cover? Is it worth reading?

From Teagasc website it looks like I need to pay for it?
http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/view_publication.aspx?PublicationID=1065

cowmilk

What cost should I expect for a new or second hand 14 unit parlour if I just pull out my old one and update. I plan on doing as much donkey as possible myself e.g. knocking walls etc. So just for a ball park figure how much for a 14 unit?

mattthetrasher

i have a 6 year old dairymaster machine with swing over arms,how much per unit for acrs and is it worthwhile for 12 units.any thoughts?

Timmaay

cowmilk wrote: »

What does the Teagasc Dairy Manual cover? Is it worth reading?

From Teagasc website it looks like I need to pay for it?
http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/view_publication.aspx?PublicationID=1065

I'll admit alot of the stuff in the dairy manual is existing publications, like the finance section was provided by ifac, and is basically lifted from their website http://www.ifac.ie/IFAC_taxation.htm, alot of other stuff is on the teagasc website also. Its great to have it all in one handy to refer to book though, with all the chapters clearly split up, for anyone serious about dairying in Ireland its certainly worth getting. It cost 50quid, or 20quid for existing teagasc clients.

Timmaay

mattthetrasher wrote: »

i have a 6 year old dairymaster machine with swing over arms,how much per unit for acrs and is it worthwhile for 12 units.any thoughts?

I've heard acrs cost about 800quid each, I can't remember what manufacture that was with, and if it included labour etc, or if to retrofit would be extra.

Some lads swear by them, but you have to work out if the labour saving is actually worth it, if you're under so much pressure that the cows end up overmilked the whole time then it might be worth it. Or, if at the minute you need two milkers, and with acrs you only need to have have one person in the parlour milking (ie go work out the direct labour saving, and see what the payback period is for ACRs).

mattthetrasher

did anyone retrofit on 12 units,did it save time,make life easier,or make no difference.my swing over arms have the pully wheels and all on so not sure how big a deal it would take to retro fit.if it spared a few minutes and i am all for making life easier.

bbam

TBH you don't need ACR's for a 12 unit parlour..
If you have traffic flow sorted and aren't being distracted by other stuff than you should be fine..
Ensure your machine is in top notch operating efficiency and a little over-milking will do no harm at all...

Sure if you have the money lying round and nothing else to do but they would be a luxury rather than a necessity..

case885

bbam wrote: »

TBH you don't need ACR's for a 12 unit parlour..
If you have traffic flow sorted and aren't being distracted by other stuff than you should be fine..
Ensure your machine is in top notch operating efficiency and a little over-milking will do no harm at all...

Sure if you have the money lying round and nothing else to do but they would be a luxury rather than a necessity..

i disagree i know a few farmers who are pushing on in age in they really need them. they are great help especially if you are on your own you may as well spend the money to make life easier on the farm

bryankingston

i just recently posted a cheque to to the teagasc department in oak field in carlow for the teagasc dairy manual, can anyone Please tell me how long will i be waiting before they will send me out a copy?? im dying to get a read of it and carry out all my farm calculations before the milk quota is abolished next year! thanks!

Hugh 2

http://www.teagasc.ie/dairy/infrastructure/docs/MilkingFacilities.pdf