Do you want Dark Souls on PC?

Dcully

I know i do
Total Biscuit does as do the thousands who signed the petition for it.
Sign the petition here.
http://petitionbureau.org/DarkSoulsForPC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUXw86Vn8ko

Azza

Signed for whats its worth.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

i'd pirate the **** out of this game if it came to pc
if it was any good I might even download it twice!

Kiith

Would love to see it happen, even if i don't think it's likely. It's a great game, that deserves to be ported over. Not sure how well it would translate to a mouse/keyboard, but as TB says, its something that From could figure out (or just use a joypad).

ShadowHearth

He did had some very valid points with pc gaming and it's digital distribution.

Aoe 3 was great example. Who knows, we might get
Dark souls on pc too!

gizmo

Hah, I was going to post this in Gaming Humor last night.

An online oriented video game is also perfect for the capabilities of a PC. Steam would also be suitable venue provided the game is sold at a reasonable price for a late port.

Master race my ****ing bollox.

ShadowHearth

gizmo wrote: »

Hah, I was going to post this in Gaming Humor last night.



Master race my ****ing bollox.

you again.... :rolleyes:

gizmo

ShadowHearth wrote: »

you again.... :rolleyes:

I assume by the rolling eyes that you disagree that the content I quoted shows a complete misunderstanding of the online functionality of Dark Souls combined with a further example of the horrific sense of entitlement evident within a certain portion of the gaming community?

johnny_ultimate

While I'd love to see more people play what is easily the best game of last year through a PC port, the video from totalhalibut is more than a little ridiculous.

Honestly, games like Dark Souls are the reasons why a multiformat gamer is the happier gamer Like I can never understand console fanboyism, I really feel as if PC gamers are missing out on spectacular games by making pointless ten minute videos when that time could be better spent walking down and buying a dirt cheap 360!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

While I'd love to see more people play what is easily the best game of last year through a PC port

im sure we all would, but there's already a thread on skyrim.

johnny_ultimate

Having played the great but absurdly overrated Skyrim, Dark Souls kicks its generic fantasy ass on pretty much every level. As does Skyward Sword, Spacechem, Catherine, DoDonPachi Resurrection, Portal 2 and a few others too

IMO, of course

ShadowHearth

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

While I'd love to see more people play what is easily the best game of last year through a PC port, the video from totalhalibut is more than a little ridiculous.

Honestly, games like Dark Souls are the reasons why a multiformat gamer is the happier gamer Like I can never understand console fanboyism, I really feel as if PC gamers are missing out on spectacular games by making pointless ten minute videos when that time could be better spent walking down and buying a dirt cheap 360!

dont really agree.

i got a very powerfull PC and i got all consoles, but Wii.

alot of people chose PC platform for theyr games, same as other chose PS3 over XBOX or XBOX over PS3 and PC. Some fanboys should take theyr heads out of arses and realise, that pc is a gaming platform like a console, just in different form. if you listen the video he said that he owned that game on PS3 and really enjoyed it, he would buy a second copy on pc too, just because he likes gaming on pc and likes to have game on his steam libary, so he can play it after xx years. So no, he did not wasted 10 minutes of video, he does a good thing to fellow gamer ( no matter what platform ).

i do own all 3 platforms, but i dont want to play dark souls on on xbox or ps3. so here you go, the sale was not made, i did not bough the game, because i was not happy with platform it was on. ( i have no hate to the consoles, it just PC is my preference of gaming, if someone enjoys theyr xbox, then i am very happy for them, as i had fun with it, while it lasted.)

250eu xbox + 50eu dark souls is not dirt cheap. it is really not dirt cheap if you are PC gamer and you interested only in one game from xbox libary - dark souls.

He says that dark souls would be a great addition to PC game libary as PC can offer a great advantages, that consoles could not do. He did not started a fanboism war, he just wanted that such great game would be made a port for pc, so even more people could enjoy it. so he listed advantages and perks of coming to PC.

unfortunately some fanboys listen to what he says and make it look like fanboys war pc vs consoles. so here we go: we got 2 camps after this video:

camp 1: people who are happy and want dark souls on PC, so they can enjoy it too.

camp2: HOW DARE YOU!!! YOU JUST SAID THAT CONSOLES ARE ****!!! YOU DAMN FLIPPING PC FANBOY!

gizmo

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

While I'd love to see more people play what is easily the best game of last year through a PC port, the video from totalhalibut is more than a little ridiculous.

Honestly, games like Dark Souls are the reasons why a multiformat gamer is the happier gamer Like I can never understand console fanboyism, I really feel as if PC gamers are missing out on spectacular games by making pointless ten minute videos when that time could be better spent walking down and buying a dirt cheap 360!

I didn't mind the video actually, Dark Souls would, by its very nature, fit in right at home on the PC. It would also be great to see given the fact that, as you said, it's an utterly fantastic game and GOTY material for most of those who have played it. Hell, technically speaking there's even very little holding a port back what with the game being developed on the multi-platform PhyreEngine ensuring they have a workable base to being with.

My issue, should it need clarification, is this need to belittle the other platforms in order to justify the port, especially when you follow it up with something which shows you don't even understand a major aspect of the game you're talking about. The "reasonable price for a late port" thing is just utterly infuriating and belies all rationality given the arguments made to justify it in the first place.

ShadowHearth

i will add to my post:

witcher 2 was pure PC game and it is fantastic game.

Project CD-red said that they will make a console port.


i could call myself a hardcore pc gamer and when i heard that - i was freaking happy!!! Its such a great game and i would LOVE to see more people enjoy it. It will do a great deal for project cd-red too as they will get more money of it and make more witcher games and maybe even more complex and bigger! everybody win!

so why cant console people be happy and support pc gamers in their hour of need? Instead we get this! :rolleyes:

johnny_ultimate

ShadowHearth wrote: »

i do own all 3 platforms, but i dont want to play dark souls on on xbox or ps3. so here you go, the sale was not made, i did not bough the game, because i was not happy with platform it was on. ( i have no hate to the consoles, it just PC is my preference of gaming, if someone enjoys theyr xbox, then i am very happy for them, as i had fun with it, while it lasted.)

But you don't really clarify why you didn't buy it on 360 or PS3? Sure a PC port would have better graphics (I don't agree it would have better controls) but that would make very little difference to the overall. Mods would be nice too, granted. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with the game on consoles, despite perhaps some very, very irregular framerate drops. In the absence of a PC version, would you not just happily play the console game if you're so eager to play it? See also: Bayonetta, Vanquish, Deadly Premonition, Zelda, Mario Galaxy and all the other tremendous games that have not had a PC version for various reasons both commercial and artistic. Like I'd love a Witcher 2 console port - which I believe is coming? - but fully accept that I can't play it at the moment because I don't have a gaming PC (on Mac for career and college reasons). Don't feel strongly enough to make a ten minute video about it though, nor will I ever!

250eu xbox + 50eu dark souls is not dirt cheap. it is really not dirt cheap if you are PC gamer and you interested only in one game from xbox libary - dark souls.

Little over 150 for the core Xbox, and Dark Souls can already be gotten for half price And easily affordable to anyone who spent money on building a monster PC, I'd imagine! And it's not like Dark Souls is the only brilliant game console exclusive - Child of Eden and that would be worth the entry price alone, however

He says that dark souls would be a great addition to PC game libary as PC can offer a great advantages, that consoles could not do.

And I fully agree a PC port would be something to welcome with open arms. But nor am I going to lose sleep that it doesn't exist I, just for the record, am a huge fan of the PC indie community, Steam and the joys of a mouse and keyboard and am a firm believer in multi-format choice. I also don't like getting into this argument everytime this topic comes up - regularly! - but I am always at a loss as to why PC gamers just aren't willing to engage with any other console at all when the reality of the situation solely favours the multiformat gamer. In the exact same way I wouldn't understand how a PS3 gamer would fail to engage with the vibrant PC world.

ShadowHearth

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

But you don't really clarify why you didn't buy it on 360 or PS3? Sure a PC port would have better graphics (I don't agree it would have better controls) but that would make very little difference to the overall. Mods would be nice too, granted. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with the game on consoles, despite perhaps some very, very irregular framerate drops. In the absence of a PC version, would you not just happily play the console game if you're so eager to play it? See also: Bayonetta, Vanquish, Deadly Premonition, Zelda, Mario Galaxy and all the other tremendous games that have not had a PC version for various reasons both commercial and artistic. Like I'd love a Witcher 2 console port - which I believe is coming? - but fully accept that I can't play it at the moment because I don't have a gaming PC (on Mac for career and college reasons). Don't feel strongly enough to make a ten minute video about it though, nor will I ever!



Little over 150 for the core Xbox, and Dark Souls can already be gotten for half price And easily affordable to anyone who spent money on building a monster PC, I'd imagine! And it's not like Dark Souls is the only brilliant game console exclusive - Child of Eden and that would be worth the entry price alone, however



And I fully agree a PC port would be something to welcome with open arms. But nor am I going to lose sleep that it doesn't exist I, just for the record, am a huge fan of the PC indie community, Steam and the joys of a mouse and keyboard and am a firm believer in multi-format choice. I also don't like getting into this argument everytime this topic comes up - regularly! - but I am always at a loss as to why PC gamers just aren't willing to engage with any other console at all when the reality of the situation solely favours the multiformat gamer.

ah qouting separate parts... ah well...

I dont buy it on xbox or ps3, just because i dont want to play in my living room.
When we both come back from work misses gets TV.
I prefer playing in my office/gaming room which is space only for me, with confy chair.
i prefer my pc for games as it has better controls ( for me anyway, not a fanboism starter )
i love having 2 monitors with my pc as i can have aditional info on second screen while i play my game or play games and have south park on second screen. all this i control with just few clicks!
i love to be able to quit my game and have limitless pc/internet entertainment possibilities. with a click of a button i can stop playing game and watch my favorite shows, listen to music, troll on boards.ie, watch youtube, talk to my friends who are not playing games, but just on pc ( vent). then i can jump back to any game i own with double click!
i love to be able to play bf3 with amazing graphics and on 64 player maps.
i love the mods.
i love steam and have all my games with a click of a button.
i HATE swaping discs when i decide play some other game. ( console )

thats just a few things, why i dont buy games for my consoles anymore. I listed all those things, but if a console gamer loves his xbox, then bejesus, good for you!!!


I dont know why console gamers are even upset by this! they wont lose anything from it, just more people will be able enjoy a good game. instead PCs get hate for not buying a console...

You say that pc gamers dont engage with consoles, thats crap m8, if you are a GAMER and play on pc, then chances that you own some sort of console is 98%. Gamers are gamers, fanboys are fanboys. problems comes up when you get a taste of bouth and then you will decide which one will dominate in your playing time.
unfortunately alot of console gamers dont try PC gaming and then just become PC gamer haters, where most of PC gamer will have tried both things and will go for better deal.

what really makes me so confused: why on earth do console gamers found an issue with such thing?! shouldnt console gamers be happy? that such a great game gets so much atention from pc gamers?!

nobody asked console gamer to buy PC to play bf3,MW3,SKYRIM,Batman, you got it on your xbox. Damn even one of the greatest RPGs will come over to console, so you would not need to buy a pc! ( witcher 2)
Why we cant get some nice treatment like this too?

ShadowHearth

food for thought. great points too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6iPwRYiEvY

gizmo

What console gamers aren't happy with the idea of a Dark Souls port?

ShadowHearth wrote: »

food for thought. great points too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6iPwRYiEvY

Some good points there alright, especially with regard to using the feedback from the petition to determine whether future games in the series come to PC. I wouldn't be too worried about a port should it happen though, they handled the Ninja Blade port internally and as far as I'm aware there were no problems with that.

Krusader

Since my PS3 is knackered, i'd like to see the 'Souls Series' to PC, haven't played both

Dcully

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

While I'd love to see more people play what is easily the best game of last year through a PC port, the video from totalhalibut is more than a little ridiculous.

Honestly, games like Dark Souls are the reasons why a multiformat gamer is the happier gamer Like I can never understand console fanboyism, I really feel as if PC gamers are missing out on spectacular games by making pointless ten minute videos when that time could be better spent walking down and buying a dirt cheap 360!

Did you even watch the video?
TB said he has the game on console as do lots of people.

blatantrereg

That v/o (in the OP) is extremely irritating. Some of his information is just wrong - old console games often do sell if they are any good. Other information he gives is selectively eidted to be misleading - nobody buys the xcom complete pack because they want the first game in the series. I turned it off at that point because he was getting his knickers in a twist, even if the visual component of the video was good.

Overheal

I want all games on the PC. So yes.

Kiith

blatantrereg wrote: »

nobody buys the xcom complete pack because they want the first game in the series.

That's just not true. You'd be surprised how many people buy the pack to be able to play the 1st game on modern systems.

ShadowHearth

Kiith wrote: »

That's just not true. You'd be surprised how many people buy the pack to be able to play the 1st game on modern systems.

JA2 was one of my biggest childhood loves. i bought it for 10eu on steam after so many years!

its a 1999 game, which i bought in 2011. every single penny after 20+ years went to developer! what is better i can download mods which add better resolution, textures, better ui, more weapons, new worlds and new conflicts!
imagine going to gamestop and ask console game from 1999 for your sega mega drive 2 or Snes! the only way to get those is second hand or remake, but not all good games ever got remakes!

Dcully

blatantrereg wrote: »

That v/o (in the OP) is extremely irritating. Some of his information is just wrong - old console games often do sell if they are any good. Other information he gives is selectively eidted to be misleading - nobody buys the xcom complete pack because they want the first game in the series. I turned it off at that point because he was getting his knickers in a twist, even if the visual component of the video was good.

Thats why hes widely regarded as one of the best in the business.
Devs are constantly contacting him to showcase their games in his WTF is series.
Constant invites to games convention the world over, in short he knows what hes talking about contrary to what you think.
He never said old consoles dont sell he simply said old PC games tend to sell a lot more and longer thanks to difital distribution.

Seems to be people who are hellbent to diasgree with him without even watching the video :rolleyes:

Magill

Don't see why not, brilliant game that everyone should beable to enjoy !

Dcully

Magill wrote: »

Don't see why not, brilliant game that everyone should beable to enjoy !

Says it all really.

johnny_ultimate

Dcully wrote: »

Seems to be people who are hellbent to diasgree with him without even watching the video :rolleyes:

I am not disagreeing with him - in fact, I agree strongly enough he has no need to convince me. I watched three minutes of it and thought he was going over the same old tired, repetitive generalisations and points of PC vs consoles. So decided I could spend six minutes doing something more productive (like replying to this thread :P) than listening to someone talk about a hypothetical port of a game I've already played and completed.

This old argument gets no-one anywhere, so I will re-emphasise I hope Dark Souls - once again, the best game in many a year - gets a PC port, and sympathise with the plight of the PC gamer due to their unfortunate lack of Dark Souls. However, in the likely event that it doesn't get ported, I think not playing it just because it's on a console is more than a bit absurd, much like never playing any of the other great games that have been platform exclusive in the past - from Civilisation to Mario to Bayonetta to Counter Strike. A balanced gamer is a happy gamer.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

if it doesn't get a pc release i'm just never going to get to play it as I've no interest whatsoever in owning a ps3

maybe in 10 years time when you can get them cheap on ebay...maybe

super_furry

If you want to play it buy an Xbox. You can pick one up for roughly the same price as a bad graphics card.

noodler

I'd like PC owners to be able to play it.

But honestly, aren't we reaching the point where graphical returns are diminishing?

Better graphics aren't reallty the be all and end all at the moment.

Video a bit preachy.

Dcully

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I am not disagreeing with him - in fact, I agree strongly enough he has no need to convince me. I watched three minutes of it and thought he was going over the same old tired, repetitive generalisations and points of PC vs consoles. So decided I could spend six minutes doing something more productive (like replying to this thread :P) than listening to someone talk about a hypothetical port of a game I've already played and completed.

This old argument gets no-one anywhere, so I will re-emphasise I hope Dark Souls - once again, the best game in many a year - gets a PC port, and sympathise with the plight of the PC gamer due to their unfortunate lack of Dark Souls. However, in the likely event that it doesn't get ported, I think not playing it just because it's on a console is more than a bit absurd, much like never playing any of the other great games that have been platform exclusive in the past - from Civilisation to Mario to Bayonetta to Counter Strike. A balanced gamer is a happy gamer.

Totally agree but TB in the video was not saying he wouldnt play it on console, infact he does

blatantrereg

Dcully wrote: »

Thats why hes widely regarded as one of the best in the business.
Devs are constantly contacting him to showcase their games in his WTF is series.
Constant invites to games convention the world over, in short he knows what hes talking about contrary to what you think.
He never said old consoles dont sell he simply said old PC games tend to sell a lot more and longer thanks to difital distribution.

Seems to be people who are hellbent to diasgree with him without even watching the video :rolleyes:

Yes he did say exactly that 6 year old console games dont sell.
Dont care if he's popular or not. That kinda OTT **** appeals to lots of people. Doesn't mean I have to like it or he isn't talking sh!t when he says things like I mentioned. Popular and good are not the same thing.

Dcully

If you have an issue with TB take it eslewhere tbh, stick to the topic please

blatantrereg

Dcully wrote: »

If you have an issue with TB take it eslewhere tbh, stick to the topic please

You're not a moderator of this forum so quit that crap. If you have an issue with my post use the report post button please.
The video in the original post is part of the subject being discussed anyway.
ffs

Dcully

blatantrereg wrote: »

You're not a moderator of this forum so quit that crap. If you have an issue with my post use the report post button please.
The video in the original post is part of the subject being discussed anyway.
ffs

Quit what crap?
Simple polite request to stay on topic.
Nobody needs to be a mod to request people to stay on topic.
Take a chill pill.

Sisko

I've yet to play Dark souls but loved Demon souls to bits.

As far as I'm concerned , Demon Souls was the perfect console game. It was not a console game trying to be a PC game. It was a pure console game and worked perfectly on it. Loved the controls.

Of course any game on console can be played on PC but if they did release dark souls and if the controls are like demon souls I could see myself playing it with a pad over a mouse and keyboard.

It might be nice crisper visuals and such other effects. And online works better on PC as always.

super_furry

To be honest the whole thing baffles me. There seems to be a subset of PC gamers that just refuse to even consider the notion of playing videogames on anything other than a PC. The PC is a brilliant games machine - I have a Steam account with over 120 games and have put more days (I wish it was still only hours) than I'd like to admit into WoW. However, it's by no means the be all and end all of gaming.

Anyone who refuses to game on consoles is cutting off their nose to spite their faces and missing out on some of the best games that they (won't) ever play.

Kiith

super_furry wrote: »

To be honest the whole thing baffles me. There seems to be a subset of PC gamers that just refuse to even consider the notion of playing videogames on anything other than a PC.

To be fair, there's a whole subset of console gamers who refuse to play games on the pc. It's not just pc gamers. People stick to what they know.

blatantrereg

Dcully wrote: »

Quit what crap?
Simple polite request to stay on topic.
Nobody needs to be a mod to request people to stay on topic.
Take a chill pill.

being told to take it elsewhere is hardly polite.
You're the one who started debating about total biscuit (or whoever he is) outside of the context of the video itself. Then you get onto me about it - which is dragging things more off topic in itself.
Anyway enough of this.

ShadowHearth

blatantrereg wrote: »

You're not a moderator of this forum so quit that crap. If you have an issue with my post use the report post button please.
The video in the original post is part of the subject being discussed anyway.
ffs

reported, thank you for letting me.


i see where this topic is going now, so i just better enjoy my pc and go back on that cloud and resume being glorious PC master race member. some peasants will newer learn and will refuse to learn.

gizmo

Sisko wrote: »

I've yet to play Dark souls but loved Demon souls to bits.

As far as I'm concerned , Demon Souls was the perfect console game. It was not a console game trying to be a PC game. It was a pure console game and worked perfectly on it. Loved the controls.

Of course any game on console can be played on PC but if they did release dark souls and if the controls are like demon souls I could see myself playing it with a pad over a mouse and keyboard.

It might be nice crisper visuals and such other effects. And online works better on PC as always.

See, this is more of it. How is Demons Souls a perfect console game rather than just say a perfect game? Why does this even need to be quantified?

And there's the online comment again. How could the online work better on PC in the case of Demons/Dark Souls?

super_furry

Kiith wrote: »

To be fair, there's a whole subset of console gamers who refuse to play games on the pc. It's not just pc gamers. People stick to what they know.

Yeah but they're pretty much happy with their lot. I don't think you'd ever see a similar campaign with a similar sense of entitlement from them.

Kiith

Where's the entitlement though? All we are saying is we'd love to see one of the best games of 2011 ported over to the pc. A few mentions of how the pc could maybe handle it better (as in no bad framerates like you mentioned), but that's about it. The more people that get to play it, the better. Although i do agree that people shouldn't not play it just cause it's on a console. I love consoles.

Also, i probably coudn't play it on my pc atm anyway...****ing pc! :pac:

Twilightning

super_furry wrote: »

Yeah but they're pretty much happy with their lot. I don't think you'd ever see a similar campaign with a similar sense of entitlement from them.

Probably because when it comes to PC gamers, they've been around the block when it comes to consoles and become enlightened when they start to game on a PC with some real horsepower behind it, it's generally never the other way around. It reminds me of when I made the switch from my old SDTV to gaming at HD resolutions. You just find it really difficult to go back. There's not an awful lot a console can do that a PC can't do ten times better. Reminds me of this image:

Temptamperu

I signed the petition even though im a console gamer.
I used to be a PC gamer but I went away from gaming for a few years while I travelled, I came home and PC gaming was to expensive when I could get a decent PC to play with medium graphics for 800 euro or I could get an Xbox that plays everygame for 300 euro. It took a while to get used to the controls and the graphics arent as l33t although they are better than anything I had ever played in the past so im happy now.
Good on you for being whatever play style just remember your playing games your not better than anyone for your choice its just a game.
I hope Dark Souls comes out on PC because I would like my brother to play it.

Trevor451

I made my switch from console to PC and never have looked back. That being said I still do have a PS3 (which I never use) and a wii which I do occasionally play for Nintendo first party exclusives.

I actually did play Dark souls before on my friends xbox and wasn't that impressed with it. Skyrim is better imo.

Sisko

gizmo wrote: »

See, this is more of it. How is Demons Souls a perfect console game rather than just say a perfect game? Why does this even need to be quantified?

And there's the online comment again. How could the online work better on PC in the case of Demons/Dark Souls?

Jaysus you can't even throw a compliment to the consoles.

When I played ps1 back in the day there was plenty of great console games what worked brilliant on it, resi evil 1 and the likes. Then there was PC games that didnt. Quake 2.

When I bought a ps3 I was looking forward to playing some console games again but instead they went down the Quake 2 path and its filled with PC games dumbed down and compressed onto a console.

Demon souls finally scratched that itch. It works perfectly on a console with out me thinking "This would be so much better on PC". Its not a game about expansive levels/ huge open worlds. Its about forcing the player to play well. It reminds me of the console games of old.

Even if Dark Souls was out on PC I would still probably get it for PS3. It would depend.

Internet always works better on PC , I shouldn't even have to explain this. I'd have far less disconnection issues, far easier time connecting to other peoples games. It would be a smoother experience. Luckily Demon Souls does not rely on internet communication thus it being on a console does not hinder it.

Magill

Sisko wrote: »

When I bought a ps3 I was looking forward to playing some console games again but instead they went down the Quake 2 path and its filled with PC games dumbed down and compressed onto a console.

Sisko

Oooooooooooooh I can FEEL the hate burning inside you.

Sigh.

It's just the way it is accept and move and on. Fine Quake 2 is better on the ps1 yeah.... FPS's are better on consoles as they were invented for consoles. Yeah that's right. :rolleyes:

Look, some games play better on one system compared to the other. But if you enjoy playing games on your fav system, even though they play better on the other one, you shouldn't have a chip on your shoulder about how that does not change the fact that it does play better on the other system and just be content with enjoying it on your own one.

All this from saying Demon Souls plays better on console, god that is one hell of a chip. You peasants are never happy are you? :P

sillo

Somebody please tell me this entire conversation is a clever satire. Any console gamer who doesn't see the appeal of PC gaming - and any PC gamer who doesn't see the appeal of console gaming - should really be in bed by this hour, or having their mummy read them a story.

Getting back to the question at hand, I wouldn't hold my breath on a PC conversion. It would be a pretty expensive exercise and they've made plenty on the console-only release already so I can't see it happening. Pity though - with a bit of development spend I could see it being a really great PC game.