A4 Racing

bogmanfan

Howdy, just wondering about this category of racing. I'm assuming A4 is beginners? What kind of distances are involved, and what would be average speeds generally? My club is involved in a league and they're encouraging everyone to race. Not sure I want to commit a whole lot of time to training etc, but if the distances/speeds aren't too bad, then I would give it a go.

Tenzor07

A4 would be the level at which most people join the road racing sport... Would not say "beginners" as a lot of people who race would be fairly fit..

Distances around 50km's, speeds, well depends if you are in the bunch or not! Over 35kph in the bunch anyways....If you get dropped then it will be whatever speed you can manage yourself

Do you club league to get advise and expierience, these could be considered more for "beginners"..

Idleater

Strava data (requires login) from a sample of the a4 races that I did last year. It was my first year racing, so the first few involved getting dropped. e.g.
Stamullen
38.8 km DISTANCE
406 m ELEVATION
Time 01:07:54
Elapsed Time 01:09:23
Max Speed 65.7 km/h
Avg Speed 34.3 km/h

Roundwood
42.7 km DISTANCE
565 m ELEVATION
Time 01:24:08
Elapsed Time 01:27:41
Max Speed 60.1 km/h
Avg Speed 30.4 km/h

Gorey
74.8 km DISTANCE
546 m ELEVATION
Time 02:02:52
Elapsed Time 02:02:52
Max Speed 60.8 km/h
Avg Speed 36.5 km/h

This gives you an idea of the distances/time/speed for A4. As for advice, I recommend you speak to your clubmates about it. I know we (LCRC) have contact persons for each level of racing that help out up and coming members, so I presume there are helpful folk in your club that can give you assurances on your ability to race.

FWIW, I had no idea on what to expect with racing, and after 1 year, all I can say is I learned an awful lot, and it was a most enjoyable way to spend weekend days. The club league helped bring me on a lot for the a4 races so I stopped getting dropped, and by the end of season, I was doing a lot better than I was at the start so to speak. Year 1 was all about experience building for me.

Caroline_ie

Any category of racing whether it is A1, A4 or under 12 requires training. A4 isn't the Category for people who don't train and just turn up.

Inquitus

Would it be fair to say that it's the hills that really sort the men from the boys in A4? and if so can I have a list of the flat races please

Tenzor07

And every cat usually has a few "bangers" in it as well!

ROK ON

Inquitus wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that it's the hills that really sort the men from the boys in A4? and if so can I have a list of the flat races please

Yes, but not in isolation.
I did a few races last year as a complete novice (3).
I found the following
(1) There are guys racing A4 that have raced for donkeys years and are fit and race ready. These guys should not really be in A4 but for some inexplicable reason they are allowed to ride a category that is designed IIRC for newbies to the sport. They will kick your ass.
(2) Hills can sort out the wheat from the chaff. But that can be remedied by fitness and weight. The most natural climbers that I have seen are a few guys that I have cycled with on the Tour de Munster. Some of these guys dont race and never have raced - but they will challenge most A2/A3 riders when the road goes up.
(3) Bike handling is a skill. Newbies tend not to have it so much. It takes time and practice. Bike handling in a race is different than in a leiure ride or sportif. Less about shouting holes and more about knowing what line to take. I can handle a bike in a sportif. I couldnt in a race. Similar but different.
(4)Cornering and accelerating out of a corner is a huge advantage. I had nit appreciated this at all.

All the old hands tel you stay toward the front. It is great advice, but is significantly more difficult to put into practice. I couldnt manage it. But I guess that it simply takes time. I found the few I did very very hard, but immensley garifying once I was sitting in the car afterwards.

I found that until I eventually got burned off that I could handle the pace on the flat and straight sections of road. However on the corners I tended to drift back at least 5 if not more bike lengths. The repeated out of the saddle sprinting just to get back on before the next corner was what eventually killed me.

There are all sorts doing A4 races. Some fat middle aged guys like myself to young fit guys on serious wheels that are seriously motivated.

C3PO

ROK ON wrote: »

I found that until I eventually got burned off that I could handle the pace on the flat and straight sections of road. However on the corners I tended to drift back at least 5 if not more bike lengths. The repeated out of the saddle sprinting just to get back on before the next corner was what eventually killed me.

That mirrors my experience in my few A4 last year! It's not so much the speed but the constant change of pace that does for you! As Rok On says the further down the field you are the more pronounced is the "accordion effect" and I regularly found myself up out of the saddle sprinting trying to stay on after corners! This year I'm going to stay much closer to the front ...... I will ....... I will!

manwithaplan

Club league (handicapped) racing is good preparation for open racing from a fitness and bike handling point of view. Tactically, however, it's a different game altogether. In a club league race, you will invariably be hammering to stay away from or to catch other groups. In an open race, the pace will go up and down and tactical speed and positioning is more important.

I did my first two A4 races at the back end of last year. I found them fine after almost a full season of club league racing - I could hold on grand in the first race (combined A3/A4) and got a few quid for myself in the second (A4 only) one. I still didn't really know what I was doing but, from a fitness perspective, club league races at 38 kmph were more than adequate training. I'm glad I didn't throw myself straight into the cavalry charge that is early season A4 racing. One tip I would share is to go in the fastest group you can handle in club league if you are planning to try open racing. Don't worry about whether you might have a better chance to place by going in an earlier group - you really need to ride with those who are better than you to become as good as you can.

Hungrycol

RPL1 wrote: »

That mirrors my experience in my few A4 last year! It's not so much the speed but the constant change of pace that does for you! As Rok On says the further down the field you are the more pronounced is the "accordion effect" and I regularly found myself up out of the saddle sprinting trying to stay on after corners! This year I'm going to stay much closer to the front ...... I will ....... I will!

Cornering is a whore in a race and it's difficult to stay at the front if the up and overs are going well, you might find yourself at the back through no fault of your own. That's when inexperienced riders try to jump a few places by cutting the line on a corner and causing all amounts of grief and dangerous riding as well as getting a torrent of abuse. As a newbie you will get the heebeegeebees when you're at the front coming into a corner and hope to God that that the line you take into and out of it are OK for those following, cos they is all following you matey!

Idleater

manwithaplan wrote: »

you really need to ride with those who are better than you to become as good as you can.

+1 to this.

joker77

Thanks for the tips here - the strava stuff is very handy to check out the routes / speeds etc

I'm looking forward to my first year in A4 this year

Crow92

I know they're not directly comparable, but what are your commuting distances and speeds?

happytramp

Out of curiosity, is there any way of knowing if you're ready (speed and fitness wise) to make the jump to Cat 4 racing? What sort of average speeds would you want to be hitting while training solo?

mp31

Idleater wrote: »

Max Speed 65.7 km/h
Avg Speed 34.3 km/h

65.7km/h :eek:

That must be some craic... here's me whooping for joy when I hit 40km/h for a short downhill bit.

BTW What do you use to get Heart Rate data into Strava?

petethedrummer

Inquitus wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that it's the hills that really sort the men from the boys in A4?

In my only open race last year it was a flat sprint into the wind after a tight single-file turn that provided the biggest selection. The few hills on the course had softened everyone up before that though.

daragh_

Thanks for all the info in this thread folks. It's bizarre how much I'm looking forward to being spat out the back of a bunch at some stage this year. Masochistic tendency or wha'...

Idleater

Crow92 wrote: »

I know they're not directly comparable, but what are your commuting distances and speeds?

I dunno if my commutes show up in Strava (enhancement still "on the way" :rolleyes:), but my commutes are similar to training rides ~25 - 30kmph depending. It's 25km on backroads so about an hour.

0 at the moment though unfortunately

mp31 wrote: »

65.7km/h :eek:

That must be some craic... here's me whooping for joy when I hit 40km/h for a short downhill bit.

BTW What do you use to get Heart Rate data into Strava?

To answer your question first, I have a Garmin 500 with cadence and HR.

Vaguely related: I was doing in or around that here too but the bloody thing was on the blink thanks to memory filling up. That exaggerated deceleration deserves the :eek: more than the actually getting to that speed! Interesting what your heart does in such moments.

daragh_ wrote: »

It's bizarre how much I'm looking forward to being spat out the back of a bunch at some stage this year.

It's more fun explaining to others why you continue to do it

Colonialboy

Anyone thinking of trying out A4 should just go for it.
Theres only one way to find out if your ready.
I dont think Ive ever met anyone who signed up for their first A4 , was worried about getting spat out and actually ended up getting spat out.
Generally they performed way better than expected and really enjoyed it.

Adrenalin on the day, the buzz, sitting in the bunch using 20% less effort saving energy all these things will contribute to you getting around.
Who cares if you do get spat out at some point, just be sure to finish it.
Its your first race everyone has to start somewhere. And you will learn alot by attending races.

If you really want to enjoy it, then do what I did in one of my first races,
I took off from the bunch coming to a big hill which had a bonus prize , everyone panicked cos no one knew who I was. There was no fear I was going to win the thing, but the bunch completely blew apart. I rode on the limit and then sat up a few miles later , and rode tempo home, but I was laughing my head off as the main guys rode past each one cursing me for attacking knowing Id messed up their race plan, as if their precious race plan was so important.

Do your own thing, ride the A4, enjoy the competition and enjoy the achievement and event itself.

levitronix

Just do as many races as you can and everything will come

lalorm

As the old saying goes, if you're not in, you can't win!! Don't worry about getting dropped. If it happens, it happens. The main thing is that no matter what happens, take something positive from the race. Maybe the fact that you finished in the main group and hung in when the pace went up, or that you felt comfortable in the corners. Or maybe you got into a good position at the right time in the race. Even the smallest thing counts. The more you race the more experience you'll get and the fitter you will become.

One thing I find with A4 races is that they almost always end in a bunch sprint. I can only think of one race where a rider got away and stayed away last year. They always want to chase you down like a common pygmy!

chakattack

The most important thing for A4 (and A3) racing is bike handling.

If you don't regularly train with a group at a nice pace then please don't just turn up to race (unless you have the legs for a solo breakaway from the gun). If you do then read some of the articles on irish cycling and elsewhere on bunch etiquette before racing. Ideally get some league racing experience first.

The biggest mistakes

Hard braking
Weaving without looking
Riding 3-4 abreast on the wrong side of the white line then squeezing in when a car comes

The sound of carbon, metal and steel hitting the road is horrific and an all too common feature of early season A4 races.

kumate_champ07

Colonialboy wrote: »

Anyone thinking of trying out A4 should just go for it.
Theres only one way to find out if your ready.
I dont think Ive ever met anyone who signed up for their first A4 , was worried about getting spat out and actually ended up getting spat out.
Generally they performed way better than expected and really enjoyed it.

Adrenalin on the day, the buzz, sitting in the bunch using 20% less effort saving energy all these things will contribute to you getting around.
Who cares if you do get spat out at some point, just be sure to finish it.
Its your first race everyone has to start somewhere. And you will learn alot by attending races.

If you really want to enjoy it, then do what I did in one of my first races,
I took off from the bunch coming to a big hill which had a bonus prize , everyone panicked cos no one knew who I was. There was no fear I was going to win the thing, but the bunch completely blew apart. I rode on the limit and then sat up a few miles later , and rode tempo home, but I was laughing my head off as the main guys rode past each one cursing me for attacking knowing Id messed up their race plan, as if their precious race plan was so important.

Do your own thing, ride the A4, enjoy the competition and enjoy the achievement and event itself.

thats the thing most first timers prob dont realize, it can be alot more than 20% saved in some cases. on the track when Im in a bunch sometimes it feels very easy but once you move out on your own you really notice a difference in how much effort it takes at race speeds.

Morrisseeee

Last year was my first full year on a road-bike, and after trying a few sportives and doing loads of (good-ish ) training, I decided to give the A4 races a try. Wow, what a difference to sportives, some done at 30 to 32km/h, racing at 37 to 38km/h is a whole different ball game. Needless to say I drifted out the back, and this was very frustrating, but humbling in retrospect. It definitely shows you how you're current training is going, and where you need to improve. Yes I'd agree bike handling is no. 1, because if you're not confident in a group going 50km/h or more you're a danger to everyone. But, most of all I learned that you need to be fit & in particular have good/excellent recovery rates, this is the key, you put in a big burst, but how long does it take you to recover so that you can go on a burst again, especially if there's a 'rise in the road' approaching ?!
I'll give it another go this year, and a big goal for me is to finish a race somewhere near the bunch/peloton.
I'll also add (in my experiance) that it's probably one of the hardest 'entry' level sports to get into, ie. racing at A4 level and being able to compete is not to be taken lightly.

alexanderomahon

Sounds to me that there should be an a5 catagory!!

RobFowl

alexanderomahon wrote: »

Sounds to me that there should be an a5 catagory!!

Technically A4 really is A5!!

(there is an A* catagory for pro's and elite internationals)

alexanderomahon

OK an A4 minus then

sheepfield

Lots of good advice here so I wont repeat too much of it.
But for me, after one year racing at A4, I have learned an enormous amount:

1) You MUST train. A4 is fine for anybody starting off assuming they have prepared for it. I got a new bike and did the sportive circuit in 2010 but deep down I had a desire to race. I realised that you cannot half-prepare for cycling, no matter what level, unless of course you actually enjoy being left behind by the peloton. Training, specific to cycling and suited to your budget and time, is an absolute requirement (unless you have EPO under your bed;)

2) Ride with a group. Join a club. Speak to others about the rigours of racing. Get stuck in. And most of all, try to improve bike handling and understanding of race etiquette. I am still less than perfect, but then again, everyone in A4 (and above) is amateur so no point thinking you can descend like Thor Hushovd or weave like Mark Cavendish, especially sprinting for 25th place in an open race. This is a mistake that some over-eager newbies make, in my opinion.

3) Nerves are good. There should be some degree of nervous excitement that comes with the adrenaline of racing: but if you feel afraid of racing at speed in a group, then dont do it. I had a nasty crash in a sprint finish last year but you cannot be afraid, no matter what happens. Eyes open, concentrate, communicate, and remember, its not the pro-tour so have respect.

4) You are not going to win: get over it, straight away. By the way, there is always a winner but not usually the total beginner. And racing is not all about winning anyway, just enjoy the buzz. (Johan Van Summerin won Paris-Roubaix last year - ten years a pro and it was only his SECOND EVER VICTORY):)

5) Just do it: the easiest and worst thing to do is nothing. Only you can find out if you are up to the challenge.