MAKE SURE YOUR BAND MEMBER IS LEAVING BEFORE YOU LOOK FOR A NEW ONE.

bayles

Hi Guys

Im going to start this because this has happened to me a few times here in recent months and its realy annoying .

I have been contacted by bands or i have contacted bands via boards.ie who seem to have a "genuine" add up for a musician , After a few emails back and fort songs come my way that are learned and at the LAST MINUTE i get an email or a text saying "SORRY BUD BUT YER MAN DECIDED HE IS GOIN TO STICK AROUND AFTER ALL" or "WE DECIDED WE COULDNT CARRY ON WITHOUT HIM AND HE PROMISED US HE WOULD GET LESSONS" .

Dont get me wrong knowing the extra few songs is always handy and i wouldnt mind so much if i even made it to an audition to at least get to play them , but this craic of learn 5 songs and we will see you on friday... then getting a text on thursday night , come on guys if your going looking for a new band member at least make sure the one you have is definatly heading out the exit door before you advertise (or approach) someone else

Cheeeeeers

Rigsby

It is the old story here about decent common sense, and keeping potential band members updated. Consider yourself lucky that you were contacted at all. :rolleyes: I once turned up for an audition at a rehearsal room to find that the session had been cancelled. I had not been notified. Calls and texts asking what had happened yielded no responce.

bayles

Its not always that way... 60% of the time its me contacting them for conformation of time and place then they drop the news , but its always at the last f*****g minute . Im spending my time learning songs for these clowns and rearanging things to fit around there rehearsal and they pull a stunt like this.

A few months ago i was up auditioning for a very well known Dublin / Meath band , rehearsal went great and it turned out we had a few things in common like knowing the same musicians in other bands etc etc . Next day i get a call saying come on board it would be great to have you ...great i thought they sent me up 2 cds worth of material to learn , so i got crackin at it and nailed a 80% of it in no time . 2 weeks later i get a text YES A F*****G TEXT

"sorry but our bass player has come back to us and we have listened to what he has to say and we feel we would like to have him back so thanks for everything "

It turns out this character had left to join another band which subsiquently fell apart and he came back with his tail between his legs knocking on the door and if they come back on here saying otherwise there lying . I dont live in Dublin i live in Cavan and i am prepared to travel for any band and to put the work all i ask is for the same in return .

Rigsby

I agree that it's very frustrating when these situations arise. Apart from high lighting it, as you are now doing, and appealing to people's common sense and fairness, I doubt if there is much else that can be done except to just accept that these type of people will always be around. :mad:

On the point of learning songs for an audition, surely two or three would be enough to show what you can do ? That's all I have ever opted to learn for an audition. Well and good, if I get the audition, then they can hit me with the full monty.

happyman81

In my experience, most musicians are unreliable and have the emotional maturity of an 11 year old.

I do worry for them...

kevin65

It's unfortunate that there are so many wasters in the music business. I use to play in covers bands and looking back was very lucky not to have to deal with the issues raised in this thread. I'd love to get back playing rhythm guitar in a band but having had a similar bad rehearsal experience recently I just couldn't be bothered to try anymore.

Owen

I got a phone call on a Friday night to sub for a very busy nationwide Coverband for gigs starting on a Tuesday. There were 5 gigs for the following week, and I'd to have the entire set learned off. I cancelled my work on Monday and Tuesday (Worth around 300 euro to me), spend a hell of a lot of time learning the set, drove to Killarney for the first gig, rocked the place and really made an effort to fit in with the band lifting in and out the gear, setting up lights, etc. End of the night, I hung around waiting to be paid only to be told I'd be paid at the end of the week for the gigs. I'd moved a lot of stuff around to be available for the remainder of the gigs, so I thought that was legit.

Got a text from the owner of the band, also the singer, also full of sh*t, at 5 in the morning to say that he had a full time bass player lined up who would be permenantly replaacing the guy I was subbing for, and that he didn't need me for the rest of the gigs he'd asked me to do. So I was down about 300 to begin with, petrol and food to Killarney and back, and 5 nights of work. Somewhere around a grand I think.

I'd really love to name and shame, but I can't, and won't

Sergio

Yeah i can certainly relate to some of the stuff being said here.There definitley does seem to be a lot of people out there involved in this game who have not respect or consideration for other people and just think they can use and abuse when ever they feel like it.
Personally i cannot stand the attitudes of these people out there because im a firm believer of treating people the way i would like to be treated myself.Live and learn i suppose..............!

Denalihighway

yes a lot of useless bas*ards out there alright. i feel sorry for anyone trying to put a band together.

i've been contacted by people before directly to say that they're interested in something, only for me to reply and get no further replies from them! even after a few more emails from me to see if they're alive. (maybe they are dead!)

not even an "actually sorry, i'm not interested anymore"...

quite incredible really.

get your sh*t together people or life will be one hell of a rough ride. there's rock n'roll and then there's being ignorant, incompetent and a downright arsehole.

bayles

Mabey i should rename this thread "Make sure your band member is GONE before you start looking for a new one"

I dont want it to turn into a name and shame thread (if it lasts) but it would be interesting to hear other peoples accounts about how they have been treated by acts and what goes on out there .

I have spent the the last few years as a full time session player and am well used to popping in and out of bands but i am always on the look out for a band with a permenant position particularly now as the session work is slowly drying up and i have to be honest i cant understand why some bands i have auditioned for carry on in the manner that they do .

For me , if i go to the trouble of learning a load of material for your band at least have the courtesy of listening to me play it even if you have alreday made a decision, dont just turn around at the 11th hour saying "yer alright buddy we we got sorted in the end get ya next time"..................... Errrrrrrrrrrrrr no ya F*****G well wont .

Rigsby

bayles wrote: »

if i go to the trouble of learning a load of material for your band at least have the courtesy of listening to me play it

As I mentioned earlier, why not opt for say three or four songs for audition purposes ? This should be enough to show your skills. Then if you get the audition, work on the rest of the songs. If the situation is as pathetic as it seems to be, judging from this thread, then as "Dell Boy" would say......"you know it makes sense."

Also, would you not think that it seems like a further waste of your time for them to listen to you playing, when they have already come to a decision which does not include you. Would you really want to go ahead with it knowing that you have not got the gig ?

Rigsby

This thread is good from the point of view of letting off some steam and for people to relay their similar experiences. However, I'd say that most people on this forum are only too well aware of the amount of unreliable (to say the least) people there are out there. Without wanting to sound pessimistic, human nature being what it is, I doubt if things will ever change drastically. Why this lack of common sense and decency is particularly prominent in the bands/music business, is a mystery however.

All we can do is try to minimise the amount of our time that is wasted, and hope that the next audition will be a success. Apart from giving up altogether, I cant see a solution.

happyman81

Rigsby wrote: »

This thread is good from the point of view of letting off some steam and for people to relay their similar experiences. However, I'd say that most people on this forum are only too well aware of the amount of unreliable (to say the least) people there are out there. Without wanting to sound pessimistic, human nature being what it is, I doubt if things will ever change drastically. Why this lack of common sense and decency is particularly prominent in the bands/music business, is a mystery however.

All we can do is try to minimise the amount of our time that is wasted, and hope that the next audition will be a success. Apart from giving up altogether, I cant see a solution.

Wrong. I have also been involved in amateur drama, involving a similar setup of auditions, rehearsals, etc. Whil unreliable people can be found in drama, it can't hold a candle to the problems I have experienced in music. I have also done volunteer work, and again, no such difficulties in getting people organised for no monetary gain.

Like I said, most musicians just seem to lack emotional maturity. But I come to expect it from them, which is why I don't get surprised when bad thingss happen. I just feel sorry for them. They have to live in a world where simply functioning as a normal human being is beyond them.

BigBadDom

Owen wrote: »

I got a phone call on a Friday night to sub for a very busy nationwide Coverband for gigs starting on a Tuesday. There were 5 gigs for the following week, and I'd to have the entire set learned off. I cancelled my work on Monday and Tuesday (Worth around 300 euro to me), spend a hell of a lot of time learning the set, drove to Killarney for the first gig, rocked the place and really made an effort to fit in with the band lifting in and out the gear, setting up lights, etc. End of the night, I hung around waiting to be paid only to be told I'd be paid at the end of the week for the gigs. I'd moved a lot of stuff around to be available for the remainder of the gigs, so I thought that was legit.

Got a text from the owner of the band, also the singer, also full of sh*t, at 5 in the morning to say that he had a full time bass player lined up who would be permenantly replaacing the guy I was subbing for, and that he didn't need me for the rest of the gigs he'd asked me to do. So I was down about 300 to begin with, petrol and food to Killarney and back, and 5 nights of work. Somewhere around a grand I think.

I'd really love to name and shame, but I can't, and won't

What they did was to take advantage of you. The reason being, they have done it before and gotten aaway with it. I was a member of the Musicians' Union in the UK for many years. Every month, they have a news letter for members. In that news letter, any agencies, band leaders etc that have been bold in anyway will be named in a long 'black list'. Mores the pity that we don't do the same here. Name and shame and save another player in the future the trouble you went through. It's you duty.

TheMutations

BigBadDom wrote: »

What they did was to take advantage of you. The reason being, they have done it before and gotten aaway with it. I was a member of the Musicians' Union in the UK for many years. Every month, they have a news letter for members. In that news letter, any agencies, band leaders etc that have been bold in anyway will be named in a long 'black list'. Mores the pity that we don't do the same here. Name and shame and save another player in the future the trouble you went through. It's you duty.

Unfortunately it may not be possible to do something like this in Ireland due to archaic libel and slander laws. A great idea in principal, but one that may leave someone open to litigation.

BigBadDom

TheMutations wrote: »

Unfortunately it may not be possible to do something like this in Ireland due to archaic libel and slander laws. A great idea in principal, but one that may leave someone open to litigation.

That's true if you are accusing someone of being a drug dealer, kiddie fiddler cross dressing priest etc. All that is happening in a name and shame is you are saying 'this episode happened to me and such and such were also involved'. You have not accused anyone of anything. Litigation does not enter in that case, trust me as I saw it attempted before regarding something similar, though not in the music industry. You've not 'accused' anyone of anything when you name and shame. YOu state facts, name names and you let people make up their own minds.

Owen

I don't really have an interest in naming and shaming - Ireland's too small, the music trade in particular. I'd hate for them to retaliate and make up crap about me just for revenge's sake.

JonathanAnon

Owen wrote: »

I don't really have an interest in naming and shaming - Ireland's too small, the music trade in particular.

I dont think a "Stubb's Gazette" for musicians would be a good idea either.. Given that it's so ridiculously difficult to get a group of four/five people to work together, I'm sure that every musician in the country would appear on such a list..

TheMutations

BigBadDom wrote: »

That's true if you are accusing someone of being a drug dealer, kiddie fiddler cross dressing priest etc. All that is happening in a name and shame is you are saying 'this episode happened to me and such and such were also involved'. You have not accused anyone of anything. Litigation does not enter in that case, trust me as I saw it attempted before regarding something similar, though not in the music industry. You've not 'accused' anyone of anything when you name and shame. YOu state facts, name names and you let people make up their own minds.

I would love if this were the situation, but I suspect otherwise. As far as I know if you publish something negative which affects a person's level of business negatively, even if what you publish is true, you leave yourself open to litigation. The onus is on the defendant to prove that they are in the right, to provide the burden of proof; something which can be very difficult (and costly) to achieve.

Owen wrote: »

I don't really have an interest in naming and shaming - Ireland's too small, the music trade in particular. I'd hate for them to retaliate and make up crap about me just for revenge's sake.

Very true.

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

bayles wrote: »

i have to be honest i cant understand why some bands i have auditioned for carry on in the manner that they do .

bands that audition new members need to realise that the potential new band member is not the only one being auditioned, so is the band. If the band's playing abality/attitude is not up to standard, why would the he/she join the band?

theinhouseband

Owen wrote: »

I'd really love to name and shame, but I can't, and won't

If they still owe you money, invest €20 to take them to small claims court......

These guys, I know their types, They pay you 150 and they are taking 1800+VAT. I bet you on their books you are earning 3-400 a night.

A name & Shame would be cool. I know the bulk of the bands on the scene, and inasmuch as the the bulk of them are fine, there are one or two wingnuts out there.

If we were naming and shaming, it should be dodgy bars/venues expecting miracles with C**p fees

I actually know one band who kicked bits out of their new drummer while he was sleeping on the way home.... Why.... He was 17 and they were 24+, Reason..... so that he will never open his mouth to them. wouldn't mind it, but the 3 guys in question are nice as pie to his families faces, but are evil twisted individuals, But they will get their comeuppance.
True Story.

Getting back to OP, it happens in this business man, you just gotta take it on the chin, but names and faces are 2 things you can never change, always be nice, courteous, do your job, because eventually your paths will cross, and then you will have your opportunity to make them know that it is YOU that does not need THEM!!

hurts worse than a wet kipper wrapped around a brick, in the chops, believe me!!!