House hold charge

LB6

So I know it's a topic of controversy. But having listened to all those great people who've paid up - god bless them - I haven't :rolleyes: I decided I'd better go have a gander at the https://www.householdcharge.ie/ website. Et voila- expemtions. Thank God.

Now I know for a fact that CHM in Raheen is an unfinished estate (in so far as the county council have not taken it over from Ger O'Rourke - aka Chieftain Construction). Does that get me off the hook of having to pay this stupid tax?

"What are the waivers from payment of the household charge?

The waivers from payment of the household charge are as follows:
Owners of residential property entitled to mortgage interest supplement
Owners of residential property located in prescribed unfinished housing estates (see Unfinished Housing Estates section for more detail)"

Then on the other hand, if they deem the estate to be finished and we have to pay. What are the chances that the CC will take over the estate and do what needs to be done to get it up to scratch?

phog

Estates that are not taken over by the council will not be exempt. I'm not sure on what the criteria for unfinished estates will be but just because the council haven't taken over an estate wont be enough to escape the tax.

BobMc

Very interesting, I believe a property tax is long overdue, but I do expect something for my money with regards where I live if they collect my hard earned and already taxed income, the most important thing being having my estate roads being maintained, I'll be holding off paying as my estate is not under council control as of yet!!

xxlauraxxox

does my landlord pay mine??

the drifter

xxlauraxxox wrote: »

does my landlord pay mine??

Yes

Kess73

xxlauraxxox wrote: »

does my landlord pay mine??

Yes. The house owner pays it directly not the tenant/tenants. But you can be sure that many landlords will find a way to get it back from the tenant(s) over time, especially if the rumoured hefty increases in the property charge come in over the next few years.

RonMexico

Money For Bondholders Charge (To Be Increased Annually)

Calling a spade a spade.

Berty

My estate is not fully finished or occupied but I would assume they will come up with a percentage like 60% must be unfinished before you can be exempt.

Needless to say those who do not contribute to society are on the top of the exemption lists.

Bless


Anyway, until the government or council writes to me telling me where to pay it then I won't be paying it. They cannot assume that I am going to go out of my way to find out where. I haven't heard a radio ad, read a newspaper ad or anything similar on this matter from the government.(other than media reports only discussing the issue)

A2LUE42

Unfinished Housing Estates
What is an Unfinished Housing Estate Waiver?

The legislation provides that an owner of residential property which is situated in an unfinished estate, within the meaning contained in the Local Government (Household Charges) Act 2011, on the liability date (1st January) is entitled to a waiver from payment of the Household Charge in respect of that property for that year.

If you have a query in relation to the estates which qualify for the waiver, please contact the Planning and Housing Policy Section of the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government at one of the following numbers:

(053) 911 7398

(053) 911 7402

(053) 911 7397

(053) 911 7399

All the estates that are covered by this waiver are due to be online by the end of this week.

the drifter

I have no access to the Internet therefore am unable to know about or pay this charge.

Thanks

D

skyguy19

Im not paying it anyway

leeomurchu

I think most will end up paying this I myself nor do i intend to until I receive in writing what I am paying for and who I am paying I pay a private company for my bin collections do I get an allowance on that..:eek: I don't think so.. Our water is cut off on a regular basis can I claim for the inconvenience of that happening in a house with two young babies, bottles bathing etc gets expensive when you have to pay for bottled water. I had to pay to install a water softener as the water quality was not fit for consumption I also have to pay to maintain that. Can I claim for this I don't think so. All in all I'd have no problem paying the charge if I were paying for a decent reliable service. This country has gone to the dogs :mad:

thesimpsons

I am most amazed (though I wonder why anything should amaze me anymore !!) that there is no bill or invoice to anyone. you are expected to front up and pay, even better you are expected to know that you are supposed to front up and pay but all without any paperwork. numerous people I've spoken to have said they'll probably pay it but are all expecting to get something in the mail about it.

mgbgt1978

Have no fear.....the household charge department (or whatever they call themselves) had a spokesperson on "The Last Word" this evening and apparently there will be a leaflet drop coming soon.
Not an individual bill or anything, just a generic leaflet that will dropped through most letterboxes...apparently it will be done by a private company rather than An Post, so expect large gaps in the delivery, eg apartment blocks etc. where they wont have access.
Also, according to the spokesperson, if you haven't paid anything by this time next year the most you will be liable for is an extra 30% for late payment.
By the way, as myself and the wife are joint owners I have decided to pay my share (i.e. half of the charge) but she is refusing to pay....watch this space;)

angeldaisy

now I'm a bit confused about this charge, according to the website its to pay for the following
fire and emergency services; maintenance and cleaning of streets; planning and development; public parks; street lighting; libraries; open spaces and leisure amenities

Now I live in the country, so I have no street lighting, no public parks, no leisure amenities and no maintainance or cleaning of streets (ok every so often someone comes and throws a bit of 'whatever' in to repair a pot hole.
Now I have no problem paying for the services I use or need, but does this charge now mean that if I require the fire service I don't have to pay for it??
http://www.lcc.ie/Emergency_Services/Fire_Rescue/Fire_Prevention/Fees_and_Charges
Otherwise this is going to mean that I am paying 100 euro to have a few library books and a couple of pothole repairs.
I thought with all the talk about it being only 2 euro a week(from the politicians) that they would at least offer us this method of payment!

LadyTBolt

I signed up last night to the charge.
Will be paying it by direct debit - €25 in March, May, July and September so it won't feel too bad.
As much as it sickens me to pay this charge paying any interest or penalties will make it so much worse. If I had to pay this I will be sick altogether.

LB6

I was looking at that website and for the love of me - I can't find anywhere on the page that allows you to set up an DD with them.

LadyTBolt

You have to register first and then continue to payment section

LB6

Yep - tried that last night, but none of the purple buttons were showing last night to be able to create the account. Working on it now tho. Nearly there - hanging on the last page - FFS - they just don't want my money lol

Berty

LB6 wrote: »

Yep - tried that last night, but none of the purple buttons were showing last night to be able to create the account. Working on it now tho. Nearly there - hanging on the last page - FFS - they just don't want my money lol

+ Sames

the drifter

Can anyone tell me are all fields required. I havent logged in yet but do i actually have to select what water supply i have?

hightower1

angeldaisy wrote: »

now I'm a bit confused about this charge, according to the website its to pay for the following
fire and emergency services; maintenance and cleaning of streets; planning and development; public parks; street lighting; libraries; open spaces and leisure amenities

Now I live in the country, so I have no street lighting, no public parks, no leisure amenities and no maintainance or cleaning of streets (ok every so often someone comes and throws a bit of 'whatever' in to repair a pot hole.
Now I have no problem paying for the services I use or need, but does this charge now mean that if I require the fire service I don't have to pay for it??
http://www.lcc.ie/Emergency_Services/Fire_Rescue/Fire_Prevention/Fees_and_Charges
Otherwise this is going to mean that I am paying 100 euro to have a few library books and a couple of pothole repairs.
I thought with all the talk about it being only 2 euro a week(from the politicians) that they would at least offer us this method of payment!

Just because you specifically will not get the most out of this doesnt mean you shouldnt pay it. This is not a pay per use country , we all pay the same to the state , yes its difficult to get the same percentage from differing sections of society at times but the goal is that we all take care of each other equally. If you feel very hard done by you could always move to an estate thats currently receiving a lot of state money to try and regenerate or invigorate it, Moyross for example. You will certainly get more benefit from your 100eur payment if you sell your country house and move there.

LB6

the drifter wrote: »

Can anyone tell me are all fields required. I havent logged in yet but do i actually have to select what water supply i have?

just your particulars - nothing about water supply etc.

LB6

there must be queues of ppl logging on - that bloody last page has been hanging for fifteen mins

bazz26

angeldaisy wrote: »

now I'm a bit confused about this charge, according to the website its to pay for the following
fire and emergency services; maintenance and cleaning of streets; planning and development; public parks; street lighting; libraries; open spaces and leisure amenities

Now I live in the country, so I have no street lighting, no public parks, no leisure amenities and no maintainance or cleaning of streets (ok every so often someone comes and throws a bit of 'whatever' in to repair a pot hole.
Now I have no problem paying for the services I use or need, but does this charge now mean that if I require the fire service I don't have to pay for it??
http://www.lcc.ie/Emergency_Services/Fire_Rescue/Fire_Prevention/Fees_and_Charges
Otherwise this is going to mean that I am paying 100 euro to have a few library books and a couple of pothole repairs.
I thought with all the talk about it being only 2 euro a week(from the politicians) that they would at least offer us this method of payment!

With all due respect, it is just too impractical in reality to set up a system where they would collect €2 each week for one year from so many households. They also want the tax collected in time for next December's budget so collecting it over a full calendar year will not achieve that.

Also this is only designed to be an interim tax until the introduction of a property tax and water charge some time next year.

Berty

My estate is apparently(spoke to them myself) Category 3 unfinished so I don't have to pay for 2012.

LB6

For a crowd that's in a hurry to make money - their website is not great, and when you contact the number on the list to see if your estate is on it, he can't see it, but to wait till it goes online. :eek: Website said list by end of week. Still not there. :rolleyes:

Rang Limerick CC., they haven't taken over CHM, but they're not sure either and they're also waiting on a list from the Government.

Give me strength. Think I'll hang onto my money!;)

Berty

I rang the first number and a guy answered in about 5 seconds and in 30 seconds he could tell me that it was on the list for non paying households. He said they did a review of all unfinished estates last April or something and categorised them from there.

DoesNotCompute

I also rang them (although I rang the main switch number for the dept of the envoirenment, who put me through to the wrong section, but the chap i spoke to put my through to the correct section).

Anwyay, my estate is on the list of unfinished estates, not sure what category, but the builder is in NAMA and half a row of houses are not completley built on the inside. Also the developer bought a load of land that he intended to build on, but those plans went down the drain once the recession kicked in.

And to answer the original poster, I don't think you'll be entitled to claim the "unfinished estate" waiver just because the Council haven't taken over - it's more to do with whether or not there are a public safety issues and/or the developer is uncontactable/bankrupt/in administration/no longer financially solvent.

LB6

And therein lies the problem DNC. It's CHM and it was built by Chieftain Construction. AFAIK - he's gone bust and there's issues still unresolved. So the lad in 053 no couldn't give me a definite answer.

Berty

LB6 wrote: »

And therein lies the problem DNC. It's CHM and it was built by Chieftain Construction. AFAIK - he's gone bust and there's issues still unresolved. So the lad in 053 no couldn't give me a definite answer.

See page 3 of this link to see where you should lie. They only exempt Category 3 and 4.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,26679,en.pdf

LB6

€10 administration charge has been scrapped if you pay over the counter with cash.

bazz26

List of excluded unfinished housing estates is published on the site now.

Mine is not on the list. :mad:

flutered

the biggest problem the goverment are running into as regards all this, is the esb data base, each customer has an unique number, this is protected by the data protection laws, they were of the opinion that all they had to do was tap into this database and they were away for slates, instead they are stuck at the start.

angeldaisy

hightower1 wrote: »

Just because you specifically will not get the most out of this doesnt mean you shouldnt pay it. This is not a pay per use country , we all pay the same to the state , yes its difficult to get the same percentage from differing sections of society at times but the goal is that we all take care of each other equally. If you feel very hard done by you could always move to an estate thats currently receiving a lot of state money to try and regenerate or invigorate it, Moyross for example. You will certainly get more benefit from your 100eur payment if you sell your country house and move there.

I never said I wouldn't pay it, in fact even though it will be a struggle I will be paying it. All I want is for the government to put into place a fair system. For example in the UK, their tax covers refuse collection & recycling, fire & ambulance service, library, water charges plus all that ours will be covering, it is a larger charge however, averaging around 1300 per year for a semi.
If the charges remain low such as they are this year then fine, however if they decide to levy a tax based on house value, how is this going to work. Will it be fairer then, because many houses in towns and cities will be valued higher than rural housing, so they will have to pay more than those in the country?? Put into place a fair system for a fair price, don't penalise the ordinary people for mistakes made by the government, bankers etc...

What new leisure facilities will be put into place? will developers have to build green spaces into their plans? Will there be enough schools for our children. We have to have a plan in place so this money will be allocated wisely. I genuinely hope that this will happen.

paddy49

does council homes have to register tennents of

Icky Thump

dont pay it

stand strong we are almost there

every person that pays make the rest look weak

youll be crying and pay 100 this year but i assure you wait until next year. if we dont pay we will never have to pay and should never have to pay

Beaver1

Icky Thump wrote: »

dont pay it

stand strong we are almost there

every person that pays make the rest look weak

youll be crying and pay 100 this year but i assure you wait until next year. if we dont pay we will never have to pay and should never have to pay

totallt agree, it will be like the holiday homes TAX anyone that hasnt paid dont have to pay

Agent_99

I paid to have water installed, I pay to have my waste collected, I pay to have my septic tank emptied and maintained, I have to sweep the main road and collect rubbish that people have thrown from their cars to maintain the look of my property. I have no street lighting, no white lines down the middle of my road. We had to do a fund raiser last week so the local school can pay it's electricity bill as the grants were cut. So tell me why do I have to pay a household charge as well, I will get no benefit from it or any other new taxes they introduce under this guise.

europa11

Pay up,

or Jim Long will never get back from China with all those jobs

Berty

A woman made a good point today on the radio that it is not fair to have to pay because:

She uses the library, roads, bus, tax offices, walks on roads that the council has cleaned and so on and so on.

Her friend, living next door, uses the library, roads, bus, tax offices, walks on roads that the council has cleaned and so on and so on.

One has a €800 per month mortgage on a 3 bed semi.
Her friend, living next door, has a €120 per month payment for a 3 bed council owned semi next door.

Both are employed working 40 hours per week in the same shop.

The one with the mortgage has to pay the €100(some of which goes to pay for people living in council homes)
Her friend, because she is a tenant and not a legal householder, pays nothing even though she consumes more services than the payee.

Is the €100 payment fair?

Not in my opinion and certainly not the woman whom was on the radio.

In the UK people in council homes still pay council tax. Some pay more and some pay less but at least they all pay. I appreciate that they have little else to pay in relation to our payments like Stamp Duty, VRT, higher Income Tax, Higher Insurance etc etc.

xsiborg

europa11 wrote: »

Pay up,

or Jim Long will never get back from China with all those jobs

sounds more threatening when you put it like that...

should've taken willie o dea with him too, had to laugh at his comment during the week about calling sinn fein chancers and how it "stuck in his craw", pot kettle black comes to mind! :rolleyes:

Villa05

Beer Baron wrote: »

A woman made a good point today on the radio that it is not fair to have to pay because:

She uses the library, roads, bus, tax offices, walks on roads that the council has cleaned and so on and so on.

Her friend, living next door, uses the library, roads, bus, tax offices, walks on roads that the council has cleaned and so on and so on.

One has a €800 per month mortgage on a 3 bed semi.
Her friend, living next door, has a €120 per month payment for a 3 bed council owned semi next door.

Both are employed working 40 hours per week in the same shop.

The one with the mortgage has to pay the €100(some of which goes to pay for people living in council homes)
Her friend, because she is a tenant and not a legal householder, pays nothing even though she consumes more services than the payee.

Is the €100 payment fair?

Not in my opinion and certainly not the woman whom was on the radio.

In the UK people in council homes still pay council tax. Some pay more and some pay less but at least they all pay. I appreciate that they have little else to pay in relation to our payments like Stamp Duty, VRT, higher Income Tax, Higher Insurance etc etc.

Ireland's bailout deal stipulates the country needs to have a property tax up and running in 2014.
[URL=http://http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/burton-hopeful-of-property-tax-decision-by-next-budget-533052.html[/URL]

Our bailout buddies stumping up the cash insisted that we introduce a property tax to disincentivise Irish people from paying stupid sums of money on overpriced property (the root cause of why this country is bust). The gov introduced this charge to meet this condition, but they called it a household charge for local services to make it seem more acceptable to the people.

Icky Thump

Villa05 wrote: »

Ireland's bailout deal stipulates the country needs to have a property tax up and running in 2014.
[URL=http://http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/burton-hopeful-of-property-tax-decision-by-next-budget-533052.html[/URL]

Our bailout buddies stumping up the cash insisted that we introduce a property tax to disincentivise Irish people from paying stupid sums of money on overpriced property (the root cause of why this country is bust). The gov introduced this charge to meet this condition, but they called it a household charge for local services to make it seem more acceptable to the people.

ireland had a land tax back in the 80s 90s. councils offered people a chance to buy said land instead of paying this "rent". my folks bought their land aswell as their house. why should they now after buying this if land pay another rent. this is all it is a rent. a rent for something you own

when they bailout is paid back will this tax go???

you will moan and whinge about payi it but youll pay it. in 12 months youll be told you have to pay 1000 and you wont be able to do anything about it because you gave up. you let down your friends your family your neighbours

do not pay this tax

taxes are unfair and unjust as it is

if public services where run properly there would never be a need for taxes and thats a fact. use all the excuses you like but wait until the day they tax you for oxegen because it isnt something that is beyond belief

Villa05

Icky Thump wrote: »

ireland had a land tax back in the 80s 90s. councils offered people a chance to buy said land instead of paying this "rent". my folks bought their land aswell as their house. why should they now after buying this if land pay another rent. this is all it is a rent. a rent for something you own
I pay tax on my savings, car, TV which are items I own - Whats your point exactly

when they bailout is paid back will this tax go???
Don't worry, this debt will not be paid off in yours or my lifetime. I hope it does not go, simply because it can be used to help prevent a future bubble in house prices.

you will moan and whinge about payi it but youll pay it. in 12 months youll be told you have to pay 1000 and you wont be able to do anything about it because you gave up. you let down your friends your family your neighbours
On the other hand you will have left down your children and their children if you don't pay. The debt is increasing and it will be left to future generations to pay a bill they had no part in creating

do not pay this tax
Ah Do!

taxes are unfair and unjust as it is Some are

if public services where run properly there would never be a need for taxes and thats a fact. No taxes = No Public Services - Agree they need to be more efficient

use all the excuses you like but wait until the day they tax you for oxegen because it isnt something that is beyond belief
Well they do the opposite, the carbon tax is tax on the polluters of the oxygen. Is this unjust tax as well

Property tax is amongst the fairest of taxes in the world.

jonski

Villa05 wrote: »

Property tax is amongst the fairest of taxes in the world.

Irish property tax aka the household charge ? ... or property tax in general ?

Icky Thump

Villa05 wrote: »

ireland had a land tax back in the 80s 90s. councils offered people a chance to buy said land instead of paying this "rent". my folks bought their land aswell as their house. why should they now after buying this if land pay another rent. this is all it is a rent. a rent for something you own
I pay tax on my savings, car, TV which are items I own - Whats your point exactly

my point is you shouldnt have to pay taxes on yourt tv either

you dont pay tax on your car unless you meen vat. you pay taxes on the road whih i also dont believe in

Villa05 wrote: »

when they bailout is paid back will this tax go???
Don't worry, this debt will not be paid off in yours or my lifetime. I hope it does not go, simply because it can be used to help prevent a future bubble in house prices.

so what your saying is we wont be here to wreak the benifits of it so screw it??? your open to leaving a property tax here for your kids???

Villa05 wrote: »

you will moan and whinge about payi it but youll pay it. in 12 months youll be told you have to pay 1000 and you wont be able to do anything about it because you gave up. you let down your friends your family your neighbours
On the other hand you will have left down your children and their children if you don't pay. The debt is increasing and it will be left to future generations to pay a bill they had no part in creating

did we create this bill???

again your the one willing to leave this tax for the kids

do not pay this tax
Ah Do![/QUOTE]

dont

people like you keep voting for bertie even though they know that a briefcase of money is found under his desk.

ah sure i guess lads will be lads yea???

Villa05 wrote: »

taxes are unfair and unjust as it is Some are

some are what??? unfair and unjust??? like paying rent on a place you own???

Villa05 wrote: »

if public services where run properly there would never be a need for taxes and thats a fact. No taxes = No Public Services - Agree they need to be more efficient

no public services???

like buses that have tried to be sold on for years???

energy which is now private??

what public services exactly?? libraries which charge people to use them?? schools again which charge???

refuse collections which are private???

i fail to see these public services you want to pay for

every service should charge people for using them

Villa05 wrote: »

use all the excuses you like but wait until the day they tax you for oxegen because it isnt something that is beyond belief
Well they do the opposite, the carbon tax is tax on the polluters of the oxygen. Is this unjust tax as well

there is going to be an actual oxegen fresh air tax

carbon tax give me a break. its an excuse to get more money from people

Villa05 wrote: »

Property tax is amongst the fairest of taxes in
the world.

tax is exactly the same as protection money. the only difference between extortion and tax is that tax is made by more powerful crooks

SupraSonic_26

Maintenance of roads: doesnt this fall under road tax why am i paying 1300 a year road tax when roads are one worst in europe goverment doesnt have a clue with this household charge.

Kess73

SupraSonic_26 wrote: »

Maintenance of roads: doesnt this fall under road tax why am i paying 1300 a year road tax when roads are one worst in europe goverment doesnt have a clue with this household charge.

It is not to fund upkeep of roads etc. Pretty sure that is why they are so careful with the wording and call it motor tax and not road tax. What you are basically paying for is the right to drive on public roads and not for the upkeep of those roads. I'm open to correction on that of course.