Who is more repressed? Women!

02572

Which women is more repressed in your view?
Muslim women who wear that veil thing or Western women who wear that cosmetic stuff?

My opinion is that while muslim women are repressed overtly by being made to cover themselves in public, western women are repressed covertly by been made to "cover yourself mentally". The make up covers you (in essence) the same way the veil covers you!.



I suppose the question really is this!, is make up enhancing your beauty or covering up your beauty? (we know what you have been told girls!!! but what do you THINK?)

Oh and FYI irish girls before any of you attack me! Muslim women actually believe that the veil makes them more beauiful as do you with your No.5

I prefer a women to just be herself (very hard to find an Irish girl like this anymore ) I think its quite sad when women cover up the fact that they are a women then they mentally cease to be one.....

wolf moon

02572 wrote: »

I prefer a women to just be herself (very hard to find an Irish girl like this anymore )

Agree, they all shave their damn legs these days...

Crumble Froo

Honestly, I reckon that it sorta depends on the society you live in. I think a muslim woman living in Ireland will be far less repressed than a muslim woman living in a staunchly muslim country.

I'm an Irish female, and, while I have certainly felt the pressure to conform to the idealised western female ideal, I have had (and chosen) the option not to. I've been wearing, for about 10 years now, the same baggy jeans, band tshirts made for 'males', long, shapeless grey hoodies, smudged as **** eyeliner when I want - but I couldn't give a **** if I'm wearing it or not on a daily basis, it's just nice to put on when I feel like putting it on. I generally shave my legs, but if I skip a coupla weeks and feel like wearing shorts, I certainly don't stress over it.

I appreciate that the veils add an element of culturally recognised beauty, and that they serve as a way to supposedly avoid being seen as a sexual object. To me, the mere fact that they have to be worn to avoid being seen as such suggests that the fact of that matter is that the person beneath is still a sex object, just one not readily available to the general public. I am frequently grateful, to be honest, that I did not grow up in such a society, and there's nothing like watching a historically based drama to appreciate the fact that I did not grow up where being a 'lady' or such gender specific ideal was virtually mandatory.

I suggest that the female growing up in Ireland - particularly one whose religion does not specifically make demands of her dress and sexuality (or better yet, one who is not fixed to a specific religion purely because it's her birthright) - is far more free than one growing up in an oppressive, sexist, religious country. I have far more choice to *not* adhere to the cultural norm, and there is a large subculture that agrees and appreciates that fact, even if it's still somewhat taboo within the mainstream.

Chuck Stone

Very good post. ^^

Pherekydes

02572 wrote: »

I prefer a women to just be herself...

What's a women?

Crumble Froo wrote: »

I've been wearing, for about 10 years now, the same baggy jeans...

Jasus, the smell must be really bad...

ICANN

OP you are ignoring women who wear the veil and wear make-up. Women worldwide have the pressures of conforming to a perceived ideal beauty. For example while women in Ireland often wear fake tan to look darker, women in other countries use skin whiteners (basically poison) to give themselves a lighter appearance.

Regardless of what clothes and make-up women choose to wear to cover up physically, no-one is going to lose IQ points over wearing a bit of mascara.

Dudess

A woman wearing make-up can be herself - and it's a bit of a stretch to speak for all Muslim women.

Pherekydes

Pherekydes wrote: »

What's a women?

Thank you!!! :mad:

Anyway OP, I don't think you can speak in such massive generalities like that
For some women the caked-on makeup is covering rather than enhancing; for others it can be enhancing. I don't see how it's repressed.

Crumble Froo

Pherekydes wrote: »

Jasus, the smell must be really bad...

at this stage, they're almost entirely dependent on the patches used to put them back together, but while im terrified of what the washing machine may do to them, they get washed frequently in rivers and oceans. old, yes. dirty, no.

Hells Belle

It makes me feel pretty when my makeup and hair are nice and my clothes match. I'm not a slave to it but I would put a little makeup on most days for myself.

What's wrong with that?

Doesn't make me feel oppressed, I enjoy it.

livinsane

You get a huge range of women in Ireland from heavily made up to au natural. Most of the women I know fall into the latter bracket. Make up, or the lack of it, allows you to experiment and show off your personality to a point.

Not much you can do with a burqa. To think they represent a moral high ground is dillusional. Even aside of the vanity argument, it means a woman cannot even show a facial expression. How deadening is that?

02572

I got the idea to post from this video! I just wanted to get an Irish reaction. It makes you think, I think anyways!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXUHtI_LzfY

What are you thoughts on that little documentary?

Kadent

02572 wrote: »

Which women is more repressed in your view?
women or women?

not sure, it's a tough one.

Immaculate Pasta

02572 wrote: »

I got the idea to post from this video! I just wanted to get an Irish reaction. It makes you think, I think anyways!

There are no potatoes or Guinness in this video :mad:

Saila

I think the burka veil or whaever is to do with sunlight protection, no seriously they dont wear them inside do they?

the sun is so strong in those countries and some of us know what the sun can do to peoples skin who are very outdoor people!

Zen65

02572 wrote: »

Which women is more repressed in your view?
Muslim women who wear that veil thing or Western women who wear that cosmetic stuff?

Repression is not about what you wear, it's about the absence of choice.

Z

William_Hicley

02572 wrote: »

I got the idea to post from this video! I just wanted to get an Irish reaction. It makes you think, I think anyways!

What are you thoughts on that little documentary?

I stopped watching the second time he called me a fool.

TheZohanS

02572 wrote: »

I got the idea to post from this video! I just wanted to get an Irish reaction. It makes you think, I think anyways!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXUHtI_LzfY

What are you thoughts on that little documentary?

Yeah but what do Ninjas have to do with it?

Jaxxy

02572 wrote: »

I got the idea to post from this video! I just wanted to get an Irish reaction. It makes you think, I think anyways!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXUHtI_LzfY

What are you thoughts on that little documentary?

I haven't watched the video itself, but in that picture the woman in the burqa is wearing make-up.

EDIT: Just watched the first couple of minutes, all of the covered up women are wearing make-up.

mackg

02572 wrote: »

I got the idea to post from this video! I just wanted to get an Irish reaction. It makes you think, I think anyways!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXUHtI_LzfY

What are you thoughts on that little documentary?

watched a bit of this, at one point it says something like "your feeble brain cannot understand this" before referring to western women as fools. Charming.

Crumble Froo

02572 wrote: »

What are you thoughts on that little documentary?

Documentary is a bit of a strong word, to be honest.

My thoughts... fair point... followed by boredom, followed by amusement, followed by annoyance.

I'd argue more that it's not so much about trying to kill off women, as it is about being able to control women as sexual objects and that in a male dominated society, looking like a man's ideal woman is one of the ways that women have found power and control. Which sounds a bit conspiracy theorist, but I think it all works on a far more subtle, subconscious level.

However, I think there are many women out there - far more than this video gives credit to - who, for a variety of reasons, don't subscribe to the pressures to look, be or do things in a certain way.

Zen65 wrote: »

Repression is not about what you wear, it's about the absence of choice.

Z

I think there's a lot about having a choice, but not being given all the information in order to make that choice. Thinking back on the social pressures when I was younger, to conform to be a certain way... I've always, technically, had the choice not to conform, but I didn't have the required understanding, knowledge or information to make the choice at the time.

William_Hicley wrote: »

I stopped watching the second time he called me a fool.

You missed out, it gets pretty feckin funny by the end. (unintentionally)

Zen65

02572 wrote: »

What are you thoughts on that little documentary?

It hardly merits the title "documentary" since it documents only the ramblings of some poor deranged person who has some rather strange views on women (and men, and sex, and life in general).

It was the worst kind of waffle I've come across in a while!

Z

Saila

wow such sexy eyes! in the vid still posted

starbelgrade

Crumble Froo wrote: »

at this stage, they're almost entirely dependent on the patches used to put them back together, but while im terrified of what the washing machine may do to them, they get washed frequently in rivers and oceans. old, yes. dirty, no.

Ugh. Crusty.

Zen65

Crumble Froo wrote: »

I think there's a lot about having a choice, but not being given all the information in order to make that choice. Thinking back on the social pressures when I was younger, to conform to be a certain way... I've always, technically, had the choice not to conform, but I didn't have the required understanding, knowledge or information to make the choice at the time.

Undoubtedly you may not have had the understanding, but is this not a matter of having the level of maturity and/or support from your peers? I think the same could be said about most of the social conventions we followed when we were younger. One cannot put old heads on young shoulders, so to speak.

This, in my opinion, is not really repression. You have always had the freedom to exercise a choice, so "repression" is probably not an appropriate term for what was going on.


Z

Kadent

I'm still trying to pronounce beyoncenism

phasers

The ninja in that video is wearing a ton of eyeliner...

starbelgrade

The real reason why Muslim women wear burkhas is because they all have moustaches. They may have sexy eyes, but underneath, they basically look like female Borats.

That's a fact. A mate of mine said so.

Saila

starbelgrade wrote: »

The real reason why Muslim women wear burkhas is because they all have moustaches. They may have sexy eyes, but underneath, they basically look like female Borats.

That's a fact. A mate of mine said so.

no thats just silly, it cause they are COVERED in ACNE spots

John Doe1

anyone ever get the ride off a girl in a burqa?

Saila

John Doe1 wrote: »

anyone ever get the ride off a girl in a burqa?

on the bucket list

William_Hicley

John Doe1 wrote: »

anyone ever get the ride off a girl in a burqa?

Now THATS an interesting thread. :pac:

Dudess

"I find women who look natural more attractive" = "I find women who wear subtle, natural-looking make-up more attractive".

Marzipan85

well regardless of what women have to wear or not wear to be accepted by the majority, there is definitely more choice for women in secular countries. i can choose not to have children, not to marry, to live off the dole, to be employed as whatever i'm good at etc.

Logical Fallacy

Dudess wrote: »

"I find women who look natural more attractive" = "I find women who wear subtle, natural-looking make-up more attractive".

My fiance never wears make up and she is the hottest woman i have ever met tbh.

Saila

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

My fiance never wears make up and she is the hottest woman i have ever met tbh.

shes standing beside you isnt she

Logical Fallacy

Saila wrote: »

shes standing beside you isnt she

Nope. She is just super ****ing hot.

Dudess

Ah yeah, not saying that's never the case, but a lot of guys think make-up is only the trowelled-on chocolate/orange stuff.

I never wear foundation or lipstick but I wear eye make-up. Applied very carefully though, so as to look natural but slightly transforming/enhancing.

Temptamperu

Zen65 wrote: »

Repression is not about what you wear, it's about the absence of choice.

Z

Most women believe they dont have a choice but to wear make up tbh, My sister wont leave the house without clowning up.

Dudess

I wear make-up because I think it makes me look better - not a slave to it though. I could do the leaving the house without it on thing. And I've never done the setting my alarm to apply it before he wakes up thing - it happens! :eek:
Although I do remove smeared eye make-up as looking like Alice cooper next morning ain't sexy. :pac:

WindSock

02572 wrote: »

I got the idea to post from this video! I just wanted to get an Irish reaction. It makes you think, I think anyways!


What are you thoughts on that little documentary?

Yeah I stopped after the 'fools' bit too

And for all the dithering on about wearing make up and fake enhancement, what are all those Muslamic ladies wearing around their eyes? Hmmm?

Caraville

Dudess wrote: »

"I find women who look natural more attractive" = "I find women who wear subtle, natural-looking make-up more attractive".

I'd agree there- but also, this crap that men spout about preferring the "natural look" is only to a point- if they really preferred the "natural look" they wouldn't care if women ever waxed/shaved their legs/bikini line/underarms. They wouldn't care if a woman had bushy eyebrows. They wouldn't care if a woman with bad skin didn't use concealer/foundation to cover it up. So the whole "natural" look is all fine & dandy so long as the woman is still conforming to what the man sees as acceptable.

-just to note though, in fairness, most women, including myself, take care of the above things for themselves as it makes them feel better. I feel more feminine myself with smooth legs etc. But my point remains that "natural" isn't really what's preferred.

That's a bit off topic anyway, but back on topic I would have thought it was obvious- the head covering is generally not a choice for these women, whereas make up is for me. I'm pretty happy that I'm on this side of the fence, thanks.

Doc Ruby

Zen65 wrote: »

Repression is not about what you wear, it's about the absence of choice.

/thread

PrincessLola

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

My fiance never wears make up and she is the hottest woman i have ever met tbh.

lol.. yeah

Azureus

I definately agree with the 'choice' part of the issue. We have the choice to wear make up if we would like to. I'm aware, particularly for those in their teens and those with low self confidence, that this choice is taken away to a degree by society and its expectations, but its not like its law to wear lipstick in Ireland. That's my only problem with the burqa-that women are penalised for making a choice in some countries.

LandL84

02572 wrote: »

I suppose the question really is this!, is make up enhancing your beauty or covering up your beauty? (we know what you have been told girls!!! but what do you THINK?)

Oh and FYI irish girls before any of you attack me! Muslim women actually believe that the veil makes them more beauiful as do you with your No.5

I prefer a women to just be herself (very hard to find an Irish girl like this anymore ) I think its quite sad when women cover up the fact that they are a women then they mentally cease to be one.....

I agree a lot of girls put way too much makeup on. I'm a woman and I've never understood them girls, who are literally soaked in often orange make up and think they are beautiful :pac:

Answering another question, I don't think Western women are repressed by being made to wear cosmetic stuff. No. I think it's a choice, there's no such a law to wear make up, when muslim women have to wear veils, burkes or other stuff, especially in their own countries.

sensibleken

Crumble Froo wrote: »

at this stage, they're almost entirely dependent on the patches used to put them back together, but while im terrified of what the washing machine may do to them, they get washed frequently in rivers and oceans. old, yes. dirty, no.

you sound like the girl version of me

biko

Sure, Western women are repressed by society and there are feminist groups trying to correct this, for instance having more natural looking models on the billboards instead of creating an unnatural ideal for young girls to try to emulate.

But it doesn't even start to compare with the horrendous oppression some Muslim women live under (depends where they live)
Not free to socialise or come and go as they please.
Not free to pursue education or achieve goals outside the home.
Being beaten and raped by their husband.

Even at the time of Mohammed his young wife Aisha herself said 'I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'.

Leftist

biko wrote: »

Sure, Western women are repressed by society and there are feminist groups trying to correct this, for instance having more natural looking models on the billboards instead of creating an unnatural ideal for young girls to try to emulate.

But it doesn't even start to compare with the horrendous oppression some Muslim women live under (depends where they live)
Not free to socialise or come and go as they please.
Not free to pursue education or achieve goals outside the home.
Being beaten and raped by their husband.

Even at the time of Mohammed his young wife Aisha herself said 'I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'.

That was about 700AD right?

biko

Yes, since then things may or may not have improved.

Btw, A pretty interesting interview with three Muslim women about whether it's ok to wear nothing, just a hijab or the full face covering niqab.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXzUuKdfnRE

Leftist

It was o.k to rape and beat your wife in catholic ireland up to 20 years ago.

Because if the wagon complained, it might make it harder for her husband to forgive her when she came crawling back to him. That is what our government said at the time.

religion is the biggest enemy of women's rights.