Age of criminal responsibility

pirelli

Theoretically if a crime was committed against a person in the 1990's by a minor of 13 or 14 years old - a very serious crime that would be indictable..

Since the age of the person is either 13 or 14. What difference will this make if they were 13 rather than 14 and can they be prosecuted assuming ( I am not sure ( prima facie ) is the right word ) undeniable proof of guilt.

Would you today be able to prosecute that person notwithstanding the difficulties where the defence can claim of the lapse of time would you still be bale to prosecute the person if they were 13 rather than fourteen.

Would the children act 2001 apply to this person if when the act was written the person would have been over 21 and an adult and there crime would have been committed when no such act existed. also since The Children Act (as amended by the Criminal Justice Act 2006)Section 52 (as amended) states: That the 2001 act of rebuttle is abolished then what existed to prevent or compel the prosecution of a 13 year old or 14 year old.

2001 Act

(3) The rebuttable presumption under any rule
of law, namely, that a child who is not less than 7
but under 14 years of age is incapable of committing
an offence because the child did not have the
capacity to know that the act or omission concerned
was wrong, is abolished.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/...ml#partv-sec52

However what save the 2001 act would prevent prosecuting a 13 year old on indictment and if the person was 14 would they certainly face prosecution.

ResearchWill

There would be problems mounting a prosecution against a person especially a person who was 14 at the time if the offence happened in the 1990. I would think any such prosecution would have a good chance of failing, as the chance of a fair trial in those circumstances would be difficult.

While the age of criminal responsibility is normally 12, there is an exception in relation to serious crimes murder, manslaughter and rape.

"Age of criminal responsibility
The age of criminal responsibility is covered by Section 52 of the Children Act 2001 as amended by Section 129 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (pdf). This came into effect in October 2006, raising the age of criminal responsibility from 7 years of age to 12 years of age. This means that children who have not reached the age of 12 years cannot be charged with an offence. There is an exception, however, for children aged 10 or 11 who can be charged with murder, manslaughter, rape or aggravated sexual assault. In addition, where a child under 14 years of age is charged with an offence, no further proceedings can be taken without the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions.
Although the 2001 Act in general prohibits children under 12 years of age from being charged and convicted of a criminal offence, they do not enjoy total immunity from action being taken against them. Section 53 of the Act as amended by Section 130 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 places an onus on the Gardai to take a child under 12 years of age to his/her parents or guardian., where they have reasonable grounds for believing that the child has committed an offence with which the child cannot be charged due to the child’s age. Where this is not possible the Gardai will arrange for the child to be taken into the custody of the Health Service Executive (HSE) for the area in which the child normally resides. It is possible that children under 12 years of age who commit criminal offences will be dealt with by the HSE and not the criminal justice system."

From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/children_and_young_offenders/children_and_the_criminal_justice_system_in_ireland.html

The current section 52 states "
52.— (1) Subject to subsection (2), a child under 12 years of age shall not be charged with an offence.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a child aged 10 or 11 years who is charged with murder, manslaughter, rape, rape under section 4 of the Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act 1990 or aggravated sexual assault.

(3) The rebuttable presumption under any rule of law, namely, that a child who is not less than 7 but under 14 years of age is incapable of committing an offence because the child did not have the capacity to know that the act or omission concerned was wrong, is abolished.

(4) Where a child under 14 years of age is charged with an offence, no further proceedings in the matter (other than any remand in custody or on bail) shall be taken except by or with the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions.”."

In relation to the question about 13 or 14, it seems it would make no difference as the age is 12 for criminal responsibility. But as all this law came into effect after the crime in question, then there is a rebuttable presumption that any person under 14 was not capable of guilt for the crime, it would be almost impossible to now all these years later to deal with that issue. Again bringing us back to the difficulty of any trial at this stage.

pirelli

ResearchWill wrote: »

There would be problems mounting a prosecution against a person especially a person who was 14 at the time if the offence happened in the 1990. I would think any such prosecution would have a good chance of failing, as the chance of a fair trial in those circumstances would be difficult.

While the age of criminal responsibility is normally 12, there is an exception in relation to serious crimes murder, manslaughter and rape.

"Age of criminal responsibility
The age of criminal responsibility is covered by Section 52 of the Children Act 2001 as amended by Section 129 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (pdf). This came into effect in October 2006, raising the age of criminal responsibility from 7 years of age to 12 years of age. This means that children who have not reached the age of 12 years cannot be charged with an offence. There is an exception, however, for children aged 10 or 11 who can be charged with murder, manslaughter, rape or aggravated sexual assault. In addition, where a child under 14 years of age is charged with an offence, no further proceedings can be taken without the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions.
Although the 2001 Act in general prohibits children under 12 years of age from being charged and convicted of a criminal offence, they do not enjoy total immunity from action being taken against them. Section 53 of the Act as amended by Section 130 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 places an onus on the Gardai to take a child under 12 years of age to his/her parents or guardian., where they have reasonable grounds for believing that the child has committed an offence with which the child cannot be charged due to the child’s age. Where this is not possible the Gardai will arrange for the child to be taken into the custody of the Health Service Executive (HSE) for the area in which the child normally resides. It is possible that children under 12 years of age who commit criminal offences will be dealt with by the HSE and not the criminal justice system."

From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/children_and_young_offenders/children_and_the_criminal_justice_system_in_ireland.html

The current section 52 states "
52.— (1) Subject to subsection (2), a child under 12 years of age shall not be charged with an offence.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a child aged 10 or 11 years who is charged with murder, manslaughter, rape, rape under section 4 of the Criminal Law (Rape) (Amendment) Act 1990 or aggravated sexual assault.

(3) The rebuttable presumption under any rule of law, namely, that a child who is not less than 7 but under 14 years of age is incapable of committing an offence because the child did not have the capacity to know that the act or omission concerned was wrong, is abolished.

(4) Where a child under 14 years of age is charged with an offence, no further proceedings in the matter (other than any remand in custody or on bail) shall be taken except by or with the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions.”."

In relation to the question about 13 or 14, it seems it would make no difference as the age is 12 for criminal responsibility. But as all this law came into effect after the crime in question, then there is a rebuttable presumption that any person under 14 was not capable of guilt for the crime, it would be almost impossible to now all these years later to deal with that issue. Again bringing us back to the difficulty of any trial at this stage.

My apologies but have you must have edited this?

The rebuttle argument would surely play no part in such a prosecution if the offender was 13 in the 1990's as the 2001 act came and went making it irrelevant.

ResearchWill

pirelli wrote: »

My apologies but have you must have edited this?

The rebuttle argument would surely play no part in such a prosecution if the offender was 13 in the 1990's as the 2001 act came and went making it irrelevant.

Yes I edited it as I was doing it on my iPhone and copying and pasting the information back and forth.

If the alleged crime was committed in the 1990's then as the 2001 and 2006 Act had not come in the action would be covered by the common law position.

The law as it stands now is age of CR is 12 except in murder etc. then it is 10 or 11. So if the crime was committed now by a 13 year old he could be prosecuted.

In the 1990 there was a rebuttable presumption that anyone between 7 and 14 was not CR. In my opinion that would mean the examination of the child and evidence produced to show the child was CR, the accused was at the time 13 is now say 29, it is going to be very difficult to rebute the presumption now, in fact I would go so far as to say impossible, also the issue of the delay in bringing proceedings would lead to at least an application for JR to stop ant trial. The ECJ sets 10 years in the Barry case as too long to get a fair trial.

The law that stands at the time of the commission of the offence is what stands when the trial happens. You can not be guilty of something that was not a crime when you committed it. In my opinion and again only my opinion the 2001 and 2006 will have no impact on crimes committed by children before they came into operation, criminal acts can not have retrospective effect.