WARNING TO ALL GUN OWNERS

guns4fun

Hi all,I have recently been made aware of some members who have been contacted by pm in relation to firearms they have up for sale here.
The sender of these msgs have offered huge sums of money for firearms and want to get the owners to sell without any licence or paperwork.
I just want to make ye all aware of this and maybe we should edit our profiles and not disclose our location/phone numbers/email etc.
Any such contact should be notified to the admins of this site without delay.
Take care of new members offering such money or looking for info on such.
It just proves that some people are watching this forum and trawling for info,it would be wise to review our security and movements just to be safe.
Be careful when posting pics of your new toys and when selling,basic info only and if the buyer is not known on this forum then arrange to meet buyer at a safe location,even your local garda station.
happy and safe new year to you all.....anon.

bitemybanger

For security reasons maybe a similar approach to the Soccer forum whereas you have to request access to the forum and it is then approved or declined by the mods based on a criteria, ie: must have 50+ posts on boards, read and understand the charter and therefore they have a better understanding of how to use the forums features like the FAQ thread or the search bar.
I don't think it would deter anyone new to the sport but would definatly deter trolls and the type of people trying to look for access for unlawful reasons.
It would make sense giving the nature of the forum and tools used in our trade so to speak.
Just a thought?

Gonzor

bitemybanger wrote: »

For security reasons maybe a similar approach to the Soccer forum whereas you have to request access to the forum and it is then approved or declined by the mods based on a criteria, ie: must have 50+ posts on boards, read and understand the charter and therefore they have a better understanding of how to use the forums features like the FAQ thread or the search bar.
I don't think it would deter anyone new to the sport but would definatly deter trolls and the type of people trying to look for access for unlawful reasons.
It would make sense giving the nature of the forum and tools used in our trade so to speak.
Just a thought?

Thats a great idea bitemybanger. Id love to see something like that setup. I mean if the lads doing football can have it then theres no reason we cant....

doyle61

Tbh I don't agree fully with that. Ye good point about having to be admitted by the mods, but what about someone new to boards who just wants to post and read in the shooting forum and has no interest in anything else on boards. By having to clock up say 50 posts in forums they have no interest in they could be seen as a troll themselves as it could be seen that their posts are not constructive if you know what I mean. Now I know it wouldn't affect me or most posters here but it will end up affecting lads in future..............genuine shooting lads. Just my 2cent worth

daveob007

+1 on that,maybe there should be some application form required for the shooting forum only where any boards member or person interested in shooting would have to give all their contact details and the mods verify them before being allowed access to the shooting forum either as poster or first timer,also current members of shooting forum could block non verified members from sending pm or making any contact.
sad that we have to concider this at all but our safety and safety of the public has to come first.

doyle61

doyle61 wrote: »

Tbh I don't agree fully with that. Ye good point about having to be admitted by the mods, but what about someone new to boards who just wants to post and read in the shooting forum and has no interest in anything else on boards. By having to clock up say 50 posts in forums they have no interest in they could be seen as a troll themselves as it could be seen that their posts are not constructive if you know what I mean. Now I know it wouldn't affect me or most posters here but it will end up affecting lads in future..............genuine shooting lads. Just my 2cent worth

To be honest. If your only interested in shooting fair enough. But there's about 10-15 forums on this that I'd post in or read. If you have nothing other than Shooting/Hunting to post about then you need to widen your horizons. There's Angling, Archery, Oudoor Pursuits, Survivalism & Self Sufficiency, Nature & Bird watching. They're all kind of linked to Hunting or shooting so it's not like we're in a niche sport that nothing else will interest us.

daveob007

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest. If your only interested in shooting fair enough. But there's about 10-15 forums on this that I'd post in or read. If you have nothing other than Shooting/Hunting to post about then you need to widen your horizons. There's Angling, Archery, Oudoor Pursuits, Survivalism & Self Sufficiency, Nature & Bird watching. They're all kind of linked to Hunting or shooting so it's not like we're in a niche sport that nothing else will interest us.

true enough,i have used boards for many things like tech,social,region etc,our security is common sense and has been covered extensively here,blocking troller accounts can easily be done by the mods but nothing to stop them opening new accounts for same purpose,maybe their ip address could be blocked,might be a start.

bitemybanger

I am very much into my shooting but limit my posts here for the very reason of security, it's too easy for people to see exatly what type of firearms we have in our homes from the hardware thread including some very tasty restricted firearms, large calibre rifles and even pistols.
Most of us also use Adverts.ie with the same usernames and buy and sell stuff to strangers regulary... You see where I'm going?

doyle61

Don't know if my post came across wrong or not but I'm fully in favour of having shooting/hunting restricted but I just think that having a min amount of posts isn't the right way of going about it. Take another senario; I'm sure there are lads who like to read all the posts in this section but for whatever (ligimate) reason they just dont do write ups. Are these lads to be excluded also????

johngalway

Verified my eye.

Anyone can be anyone on line, restricted access is a waste of time.

guns4fun

Really what it comes down to when selling firearms is common sense,meeting place,price offer,most buyers try to knock down the price thats normal but when you are offered more than the asking price then you surely smell a rat,
I agree that giving too much info here could be dangerous,if any of ye is made an offer that looks too good to be true you must make it clear to the interested party that you will only deal with the sale properly and within the law,,these guys might be criminals or people who think buying a gun for protection is ok but what ever the reason they must be sent a clear message that we do not do illegal stuff.
Furthermore if you are tempted by the big offer and you are stupid enough to do a deal outside the law you must remember this,,you are breaking the law and will end up in prison,or if you are selling to a criminal you have no way of knowing if you will get the money or not.
its down to our vigilance to report all such offers to the mods and tell others whats going on. stopping the fishers is a matter of debate.

lar203

mr mc arter comes to mind , selling or buying should be done in a dealers

Glensman

The shooting/hunting section of Boards is the only part I read or post in.
There is no need to restrict it. I don't think it is workable/enforceable anyway.

bitemybanger

doyle61 wrote: »

Don't know if my post came across wrong or not but I'm fully in favour of having shooting/hunting restricted but I just think that having a min amount of posts isn't the right way of going about it. Take another senario; I'm sure there are lads who like to read all the posts in this section but for whatever (ligimate) reason they just dont do write ups. Are these lads to be excluded also????

No I hear ya
I think the 50+ posts would insure members wishing to access fully understand and respect the charter as they will have a little experience posting.
It might not be the best option if this forum was to become restricted but it would certainly deter anyone naughty gaining access as I could not see them posting more than 50 posts. You can tell alot about someone in 50 posts, weather they have any previous infractions/bans, if they are abusive or a total troll, all this would be obvious within 50 or less posts.

Spunk84

Just use a RFD to work out the transaction or viewing of the firearm...Simples...or say u will meet the buyer at the Gard station and see the real buyer come forward. I never let anyone come to the house unless I meet them first, I will know in the first 10-15mins what there like...

When I was selling my dog a few months ago had the same thing happen,so it's not just firearms..

guns4fun

the only thing i can say is that the buyers in these cases had 0 posts and only joined in the past 2 or 3 months.

bitemybanger

Lads I don't just mean buying/selling firearms, that's an obvious one.
I mean buying or selling anything on here or Adverts.ie
It's too easy to see who owns what, organise to buy anything be it a phone, bike, car, laptop, whatever from your ads and follow you home.
Which can be done by anybody without even setting up a boards account and just having a bogus adverts account.

landkeeper

what a load of rubbish imho it's the nanny state mentality again
you'll end up with a forum that is so restricted and complex no-one will bother with it there are enough users allready who have departed due to ###### thought police and over moderation
yes there is a risk with selling stuff firearm related on the internet or anywhere for that matter but WE are grown ups and are able to make decisions and actions ourselves to offset risks surely it is OUR choice what we post or don't

Manic Moran

What, exactly, is ' someone naughty' going to achieve on this forum? I doubt anyone here will be foolish enough to do something illegal, and few would be foolish enough to post up the location of their arms locker. The risk of being ' tracked' to your home from something you've advertised on Boards (two posts up) is no worse than the risk of being followed home from the range. The soccer forum is a different matter, the lockout is done for the smooth running of the forum, not out of fear of something.

Given that the occasional chancer doesn't particularly disrupt the forum, and spammers are an occupational hazard across all fora, the only advantage would be if you were afraid that someone would post something of negative PR consequence. How often has that happened on here?

I am reminded of the military's ban on using social media. They were so paranoid that troops would either reveal classified information or post a video of killing a puppy or something that they completely buried the possible PR benefits. Took them years to figure it out.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is this forum not the easiest and most accessible way for non shooters in Ireland to have any exposure to the sport? It's under siege already, what does it tell even veteran boards users? That the shooting forum is an arcane, inaccessible site, so whatever they're hiding in there, it can't be good. Maybe those politicians are right!

Or, leave it open as it is now. I occasionally see threads on other fora where a response is akin to "actually, you're wrong about Irish firearms, click this link to the shooting forum and check it out." And when they do that, or if people just happen to be idly clicking through fora to check them out, what are they going to see? A group of Boards users who happen to be huntsmen or target shooters being all mature and responsible talking about their firearms as if they're the most normal things in the world, which they are. Nothing different to the Motors forum, a group of people talking legal, fun, practical machinery.

How does that perception differ from that of a closed forum, even if the ' rules for entry' are a near rubber stamp?

Daft idea. Continue to be polite and law abiding. The rules here are no different than out in real life.

NTM

Spunk84

If anything happens in terms of a crime I'm sure boards.ie would be able to bring up all info for the gards i.e ip and were to locate the dodgy people...... Pretty much common since people,if it sounds to good to be true then it is........As LK said above.

Spunk84

Manic Moran wrote: »

What, exactly, is ' someone naughty' going to achieve on this forum? I doubt anyone hee will be foolish enough to do something illegal, and few would be foolish enough to post up the location of their arms locker. The soccer forum is a different matter, the lockout is done for the smooth running of the forum, not out of fear of something.

Given that the occasional chancer doesn't particularly disrupt the forum, and spammers are an occupational hazard across all fora, the only advantage would be if you were afraid that someone would post something of negative PR consequence. How often has that happened on here?

I am reminded of the military's ban on using social media. They were so paranoid that troops would either reveal classified information or post a video of killing a puppy or something that they completely buried the possible PR benefits. Took them years to figure it out.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is this forum not the easiest and most accessible way for non shooters in Ireland to have any exposure to the sport? It's under siege already, what does it tell even veteran boards users? That the shooting forum is an arcane, inaccessible site, so whatever they're hiding in there, it can't be good. Maybe those politicians are right!

Or, leave it open as it is now. I occasionally see threads on other fora where a response is akin to "actually, you're wrong about Irish firearms, click this link to the shooting forum and check it out." And when they do that, or if people just happen to be idly clicking through fora to check them out, what are they going to see? A group of Boards users who happen to be huntsmen or target shooters being all mature and responsible talking about their firearms as if they're the most normal things in the world, which they are. Nothing different to the Motors forum, a group of people talking legal, fun, practical machinery.

How does that perception differ from that of a closed forum, even if the ' rules for entry' are a near rubber stamp?

Daft idea. Continue to be polite and law abiding. The rules here are no different than out in real life.

NTM

I vote for MM for moderator on the hunting forum hehehe nice one,a mod with a bit of sense:)

daveob007

this thread was obviously started to warn members of possible illegal activity and to give us the heads up.
it makes sense for us to use our common sense when advertising on the net whatever we are selling,,the mods have all the info regarding ip addresses etc if they need it,,just be careful out there is the message.

Cass

Going to try and address a few posts here.

bitemybanger wrote: »

For security reasons maybe a similar approach to the Soccer forum whereas you have to request access to the forum and it is then approved or declined by the mods based on a criteria, ie: must have 50+ posts on boards,

That works for Soccer, but would not be workable for shooting. As with many users i joined up a few years ago when looking on the web for some info. Had i needed to go through a "probation period" or have X amount of posts, etc before being allowed to join i would have not bothered, and gotten my info elsewhere

doyle61 wrote: »

Tbh I don't agree fully with that. Ye good point about having to be admitted by the mods, but what about someone new to boards who just wants to post and read in the shooting forum and has no interest in anything else on boards.

Thats the other point. I joined Boards for the shooting forum only. Since then i have gotten into other fora, but over time. To ask a new user to post elsewhere for 25, 50, 100 posts then come talk to us would again discourage new users joining up.

daveob007 wrote: »

............maybe there should be some application form required for the shooting forum only where any boards member or person interested in shooting would have to give all their contact details and the mods verify them before being allowed access to the shooting forum .......

Not sure on the legalities, but it may breach the data protection act, and if not it would definitely breach the forum rules about asking a user for personal info. If a person gives this info in a post, PM, etc then thats their business, but we cannot ask for it, and expecting it as part of the "sign up" is the same thing.

Deleted User wrote: »

To be honest. If your only interested in shooting fair enough. But there's about 10-15 forums on this that I'd post in or read. If you have nothing other than Shooting/Hunting to post about then you need to widen your horizons..

That may suit some from the start, but as said above most people even outside of shooting start off looking at a specific forum then widen their views/forua.

johngalway wrote: »

Verified my eye.

Anyone can be anyone on line, restricted access is a waste of time.

More or less.

guns4fun wrote: »

Really what it comes down to when selling firearms is common sense,

Correct.

Furthermore if you are tempted by the big offer and you are stupid enough to do a deal outside the law you must remember this,,you are breaking the law and will end up in prison,or if you are selling to a criminal you have no way of knowing if you will get the money or not..

Taking the above into account do not forget, should anyone be foolish enough to be tempted by such offers that if someone is seeking a firearm, illegally, they will not register the firearm and you will still be the licensed holder. Try cancelling the license - what do you put down for the new owner? IOW it will always come back to bite you in the ass.

Yer all intelligent enough to know this simply should not be entetained. If you get such an offer, PLEASE, inform the mods, CatMods immediateyl and it will be dealt with quickly, and efficiently.

guns4fun wrote: »

the only thing i can say is that the buyers in these cases had 0 posts and only joined in the past 2 or 3 months.

Its unfortunate, but not so prolific that privatising the forum would solve it. It would close off the forum to the 99.9% of genuine lads/ladies.

landkeeper wrote: »

you'll end up with a forum that is so restricted and complex no-one will bother with it

Correct.

WE are grown ups and are able to make decisions and actions ourselves to offset risks surely it is OUR choice what we post or don't

Manic Moran wrote:

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is this forum not the easiest and most accessible way for non shooters in Ireland to have any exposure to the sport? It's under siege already, what does it tell even veteran boards users? That the shooting forum is an arcane, inaccessible site, so whatever they're hiding in there, it can't be good. Maybe those politicians are right!

Precisely. Well said.

Other than easy access for newbies, its also important to be open, and non secretive from a Pr point of view. We take part in a legal sport so we definitely do not need to give those that would seek to portray us as "evil" an ammo (excuse the pun).


In relation to this, and what i said above lads, there are simple steps to take to ensure your safety fro a forum point of view.

• Do not give out personal info via PM or openly on a post.
• Meet any person in a dealers, range, club, public place.
• Never meet anyone on your own.
• Give out no contact info via any method. This can be exchanged when meeting up at the public place.
• Report ANY, an ALL dodgey posts, PMs. Even if you think someone else might have done it or its not really important enough. Report it, and include any messages with the report.
• Do not disclose the location of you, your firearms, etc. This means remove anything in your profile that identifies where you are/might be.
• When posting pictures ensure serial numbers, licenses, forms, etc have all relevant/important info blocked out. Try not to include any identifiable landmarks in photos.

As was already said this thread is about your own personal safety. The features on this forum are of secondary concern as we can control the forum. On that note it must be pointed out that while the mods, CatMods, and admins, can help we are not the police/Gardai. We, obviously, have no power to enact any real world changes. Even PMs can be sent by a user with no posts, so again making the forum a private, restricted access one will not eliminate this issue.

Be careful, be safe.

Tackleberry.

just a taught, if and when i see a person posting on boards if i want i can look at there profile and from this i can build my own profile of what your into and what you might own boats,guns etc...you get my point,
I'm sure boards can set it up that this information alone can only veiwed between friends,i note that there is a friends section... hope you see my point.

Cass

Tackleberry. wrote: »

I'm sure boards can set it up that this information alone can only veiwed between friends,.

Its already set up.

If you click on "User CP", then look at the second option on the list on the left of the screen titled "Profile Privacy". Click it and it will bring you onto a list of drop down options. Here you can select which group of people can view what about you, your profile page, photos, etc.

One word of note though. If you, like me, use the pictures in you albums to post on the open forums, and you restrict this to friends/contacts only then anyone not a friend or ontact will not view them.

Other than that it up to the user how much they want to share.

Sparks

And folks, just to remind you, rule number two in the for sale/wanted forum is (and has been since the start of the for sale/wanted forum):

Firearms Sales should be done via RFD

Any firearms or components of firearms (ie anything that requires a licence or Garda Authorisation) should be sold via a registered firearms dealer.
When posting these items for sale here you should have:

• Make/Model of firearm
• Description of firearm
• Asking price for firearm
• Details of Firearms Dealer being used
• Any other relevant info

The reports we've been getting (and yes, the mods and admins are aware of the problem and have been discussing possible approaches to it for a while) are disturbing, but those guidelines above avoid the problems fairly well...

Tea drinker

daveob007 wrote: »

+1 on that,maybe there should be some application form required for the shooting forum only where any boards member or person interested in shooting would have to give all their contact details and the mods verify them before being allowed access to the shooting forum either as poster or first timer,also current members of shooting forum could block non verified members from sending pm or making any contact.
sad that we have to concider this at all but our safety and safety of the public has to come first.

I don't think giving away more personal details online adds to security. Hackers and guys lifting guns run in different circles, but why risk it?

I agree with the 50 post count, maybe 1 month membership too...

Vote 4 Pedro

bitemybanger wrote: »

Lads I don't just mean buying/selling firearms, that's an obvious one.
I mean buying or selling anything on here or Adverts.ie
It's too easy to see who owns what, organise to buy anything be it a phone, bike, car, laptop, whatever from your ads and follow you home.
Which can be done by anybody without even setting up a boards account and just having a bogus adverts account.

Anyone could sit outside a RFD and then follow you home from there if they really wanted to.

Dankskie

long time lurker first time poster:D

i did type up a proper response but my pos laptop crashed :mad:

so in short, if mods want to make the place safer please educate folks about exif data and geo tags. Atm with a ****ty free exif reader and with little computer know how a person can click through the pictures, get lucky and find a members location.

If a person is willing to contact members about buying guns, i dont think its unreasonable to think that they would take the time to buy the proper soft ware, learn how to use it and turn the various "post a pic threads" in to cough shopping list.

my 2c

Gonzor

How about this.

The regular shooting/hunting side of things you just ask for permission to get in and you get it. zero posts required.

Whereas the "shooting for sale and wanted" have a limit on that. Lets just say 25 posts. I know a lot of other websites do a similar thing to stop nuisance posters. And those websites seem to do just fine.

(Besides I think it might stop some of the spammers too, not long ago I posted "a wanted" item and within an hour or two I had an inbox full of messages all from members with 0 posts offering up stuff that was at best "similar" to what I wanted and in some cases complete opposite of what I had asked for.)

Honestly, I dont think the majority of people worry about getting robbed when they are selling the firearm... I think the big deal is this:

We (or I know I do) go to great lenghts to make sure neighbours and random people in street dont know I have firearms. I dont go walking down the road carrying the gun in my hands for all in sundry to see.

But yet here on boards those same people can cross over to the shooting section and backtrack through all my posts (which actually happened not long ago, someone took a dislike to me and decided to see could he dig up dirt)... The guy found out what exact guns I have. How many people live in the house with me... what I work at... what hours I work... etc

Obviously making shooting private isnt going to stop the determind theif, but then again, me hiding the guns from neighbours isnt going to stop me getting robbed either.... but I still do it. It gives me an little extra bit peice of mind.

Sparks

Perhaps I can clear up the queries about requiring some sort of criteria to be met before people can post or read in the shooting forums. I'll be concise in order to be definitive, please don't take it as being snarky:

Mod note: It's not going to happen. We have no interest in taking this forum outside and shooting it in the head, thankyouverymuch.

There are many reasons why not, here are a few to start with:

• It won't work. If you think boards.ie is the only place people could find information on you, you either never ever go to any other website and you have a very, very specialised setup indeed; or you're wrong. I'll bet all the money in my pockets against all the money in your pockets that it's the latter.
• Even if we restricted ourselves, other sites won't; and if we did restrict ourselves, we wouldn't be an open group that new shooters can come to to learn; we'd be a closed club of ould fellas chewing the cud. No thanks. We're the largest shooting forum in the country by a very large margin, and frankly we're the best for a very wide range of topics - none of us want to see that change, and we certainly don't want to deliberately destroy that.

Gonzor

Sparks wrote: »

• It won't work. If you think boards.ie is the only place people could find information on you, you either never ever go to any other website and you have a very, very specialised setup indeed; or you're wrong. I'll bet all the money in my pockets against all the money in your pockets that it's the latter.

Boards... youtube... and then googling... had an account on snipershide one time. Out of all those boards is unique. Take every comment/bit of information I ever put into youtube and you'll pin me to Ireland. You'll know I have an interest in firearms and shooting, but thats about it.

Sparks wrote: »

• Even if we restricted ourselves, other sites won't; and if we did restrict ourselves, we wouldn't be an open group that new shooters can come to to learn; we'd be a closed club of ould fellas chewing the cud. No thanks. We're the largest shooting forum in the country by a very large margin, and frankly we're the best for a very wide range of topics - none of us want to see that change, and we certainly don't want to deliberately destroy that.

It would still be an open group. It just means having to send a pm to a mod to get in. Its a bit of a hoop, but sure so is having to register an account on boards.... and so is filling in an FCA1 form. If you can manage those two things then a simple pm shouldnt sink the boat.

Going by all the thanks on bitemybangers post I say we have a vote on it.

We'll draw up a proper idea and then post a new thread outlining the idea and put a poll on it... we all vote and then see what the results are and then we go from there.

landkeeper

now where is the face palm picture when it's needed :eek:

Sparks

Gonzor wrote: »

Boards... youtube... and then googling... had an account on snipershide one time. Out of all those boards is unique. Take every comment/bit of information I ever put into youtube and you'll pin me to Ireland. You'll know I have an interest in firearms and shooting, but thats about it.

Now add in facebook (not just you, but anyone who knows you or ever took a photo of you), tumblr, photobucket, the local press in some cases, any shooting magazine where you put in an ad to sell anything, any public database that has your details, and if you have a smartphone then you've heard of CarrierIQ, right?
You live in a panopticon, whether you know it or not.

It would still be an open group. It just means having to send a pm to a mod to get in.

That's not an open group. That's a closed group with a small application form and no appeals process.

And it will effectively slam the door shut on anyone who's just curious to see what our sports are like and who'd like to find out more by asking on here. And none of the mods want to do that.

Going by all the thanks on bitemybangers post I say we have a vote on it.

Tried that recently. Not happening. No offence.

Gonzor

Not that I think its a good comparison... but facebook? (Im not a facebook user so if Im wrong feel free to correct me). Facebook gives you the option to shut off your account from strangers. We cant do that here. Facebook doesnt have a thriving community of firearm enthusiasts. We have that here.

Public database that has my details? You mean like my library or my local DVD store...? That doesnt say much about what guns I have in the house to be very honest with you now.

Shooting magazine adds..? None for me. And none for most shooters I know. And even if you did put an add in a magazine its not the same.

For example:

"12 guage holland & holland for sale, call gonzor 0861234567"

versus my boards account which would tell you every gun I have, where abouts I live, what hours Im not at home etc....


Smartphone carrier IQ...? Im not going to lie Im not very technologically inclined. But is that were your phone is tracking you?

Well if it is, how does the average joe soap like me pick someone like you and then hack into your phone and find out what guns you have, where you live etc..?

Then I say, actually no, Sparks doesnt have a pistol and thats what Im after, lets see I'll hack Kildare17hmrs phone now and see what he has. Like how does that work?

---

Ok lets not get into an argument about technical terms.

We could use the argument of gun licences are killing off our sport... How much do you want to bet that if Joe soap could buy a gun over the counter in his local aldi by just producing photo ID and signing a form and he walks off with his new gun there and then, then we'd have a lot more shooters.

Or what about having to register an account on boards? Would it not be easier if people could post without needing an account? How does needing an account affect this community? If people could post anonymously would we see the size of this community double?

Seriously, I dont think having to a pm a mod is going to kill off the community.

---

Really, there was a vote on this recently? I must have missed it. Ok well that being the case then I'll leave it at that. No point in bringing up a past issue.

Sparks

Gonzor wrote: »

Not that I think its a good comparison... but facebook? (Im not a facebook user so if Im wrong feel free to correct me). Facebook gives you the option to shut off your account from strangers. We cant do that here.

So, (a) Facebook can change that policy at any time and you can't do diddly about it (and they've done this several times); (b) the photos put up of you on Facebook by others are controlled (in terms of the privacy settings) by others; and (c) we can do that here and Ezri showed how to in a post on this thread...

Facebook doesnt have a thriving community of firearm enthusiasts. We have that here.

Er, yes they do. Pretty much the entire international ISSF community seems to be on there, and all the Irish community (ISSF and otherwise) as well.
So if anyone ever took a photo of you at a shoot, there's a reasonable chance that you're on there (and they let you tag a photo to identify people in it, and they have facial recognition software that "aids" users in doing that as well...)

Public database that has my details? You mean like my library or my local DVD store...? That doesnt say much about what guns I have in the house to be very honest with you now.

Nope, only one official database has that information in one spot (PULSE).
However, you're talking about integrating information from multiple sources to build up a picture of an individual. So company records, website records if you have one, anything that's requestable under FOI or other similar Acts, phone books, all of those have to be considered.

Shooting magazine adds..? None for me. And none for most shooters I know.

So how do you sell your firearms then?

And even if you did put an add in a magazine its not the same.
For example:
"12 guage holland & holland for sale, call gonzor 0861234567"
versus my boards account which would tell you every gun I have, where abouts I live, what hours Im not at home etc....

So now you have a name and a phone number and a gun type.
If you think that means you're still anonymous, I think you might have a rude surprise in your future...

Smartphone carrier IQ...? Im not going to lie Im not very technologically inclined. But is that were your phone is tracking you?

It's a small piece of software recently found on almost every smartphone out there (Android, iPhone, Nokia, etc) that logged every single keystroke you entered and uploaded it to a company that was using it to generate analytics about you for advertising.

But if you ever looked at your email with your smartphone, entered a password, looked at your bank accounts, sent a text to someone... all of that was being uploaded too. How secure that data was, nobody knows. So some random kid in Wisconsin hacks into their server, grabs all that data and puts it up on a bittorrent website and now everyone knows your bank account details...

We could use the argument of gun licences are killing off our sport.

They are. It's not really an argument!

Or what about having to register an account on boards? Would it not be easier if people could post without needing an account?

In some forums they can, but those forums need far closer moderation and their charters are far more strict.

Seriously, I dont think having to a pm a mod is going to kill off the community.

Filling out an anonymous form and clicking a button probably loses us two thirds of the people who'd post here otherwise.
It also saves us from a monumental deluge of spam (and you've probably seen some of that pop up in here in the last few weeks, but we've avoided the worst of that until now; those now getting in are using mechanical turks -- ie. people paid to register and post spam -- to get round the registration form.
But that form is a decent balancing point between making it hard enough to reduce spam to a managable level and making it easy for new posters to post that first time.

Really, there was a vote on this recently?

There was a poll on what to do with the photos thread in Hunting.

Gonzor

Lets not get tangled up in comparing boards with facebook because its comparing apples and oranges.

(But just for the record, a photograph of me holding a rifle doesnt say very much in comparison to the information that could be gotten from my boards account.)

---

PULSE...?? You got to be joking me. THe main people who have access to that are the guards. I can assure you, Im more worried about some scumbag chancing his arm then a dodgy garda trying to break in on his night off.


So every detail I ever put in my phone is saved to a server somewhere? Well thats a seperate issue really isnt it?

I cant go to that company and say "hey thats a security risk, lets work on this".... but I can here on boards. Isnt that what we all know and love about boards afterall?

Some kid in wisconsin hacks into a server, gets my bank details and puts it online. THats a seperate issue and doesnt have anything to do with this. Or am I missing something?

---

I sell through my RFD... I kinda assumed everybody else did.

---

I think you may have missed my point slightly. Im not actually calling for us to hand out guns over the counter, or allow anonymous posting on this website.

Im just pointing out that if people can get past an FCA1 form and go through all the hassle of setting up a boards account- then one little pm isnt going to break the bank.

---

Thats the poll you were referring to. I must have picked you up wrong. Sorry

How about we just have a poll and let the community as a whole speak. No offence intended, but I dont see why you can speak for everybody here just because your the head moderator. And again, me and you could bicker back and forward all night but it wont represent what the majority of the people think.

Lets have a poll and we'll let the votes do the speaking. Its the fairest way.

landkeeper

gooooooooawaaaaaayyyy we are all big boys we understand the choices /risks /possibilities when we use this website, that is our choice if you don't like it don't register don't use the site some of us have been here for a longtime not just 5 minutes your going to throw the baby out with the dishwater

Sparks

Gonzor wrote: »

Lets not get tangled up in comparing boards with facebook because its comparing apples and oranges.

Sorry, that's not possible with this topic. It's all about the technical details.
You might as well say "lets discuss brain surgery, but not get tangled up in all that medical nonsense".

(But just for the record, a photograph of me holding a rifle doesnt say very much in comparison to the information that could be gotten from my boards account.)

Yes, because a single photo is a single data point, whereas you've posted 123 times in boards, so that's more data.
But if you were a facebook user, then that wouldn't be the case - it'd probably be easier to find out about you on facebook.

PULSE...?? You got to be joking me.

Nope. It's the one official database.
Clubs and such might maintain local records, but that's the only official national database I know of that has your name and your firearms in the one spot.

THe main people who have access to that are the guards.

(a) Yes, I said "official" not "public". There's a difference.
(b) When was the last time you heard of non-Gardai getting access to PULSE data illicitly, or Gardai misusing their access rights? (For me, I heard of instances of both in the last year in the media).

I can assure you, Im more worried about some scumbag chancing his arm then a dodgy garda trying to break in on his night off.

Ah, risk assessment. Finally we get to the meat of this.
From the Gardai (and I've had to deal with them in three burglaries so far), their best advice is:

• Have good locks on the doors and windows of your house;
• Use them.
• And maybe get a house alarm.

That accounts for well over 90% of all burglaries according to all of the Gardai I've talked to about this; because the vast majority of burglaries are opportunistic. Lout sees an open window when the family's out of the house, lout breaks in and steals small, valuable items they can sell fast, or money.
The remainder are usually not deterred by alarms or anything else and that's what your house insurance is for.

So either it's avoidable bad luck, or you've been targetted. The latter is very uncommon and rare, but it's scarier so everyone immediately thinks of it -- same way people worry about dying in an airliner crash, but in reality your stairs at home are a few thousand times more dangerous according to the statistics (aka. What actually happens ).

So every detail I ever put in my phone is saved to a server somewhere? Well thats a seperate issue really isnt it?

Nope.
The point is that you're living in a panopticon; worrying about it isn't daft or silly, but it isn't going to change it readily.
And killing off boards.ie certainly wouldn't fix the problem, it'd be like cutting off a finger because you've seen the first chicken pox spot show up on it - you lose a finger and don't cure the chicken pox...

I cant go to that company and say "hey thats a security risk, lets work on this".... but I can here on boards. Isnt that what we all know and love about boards afterall?

Again, Ezri posted instructions above on how to decide what information you share on your boards.ie account and with whom.

And in general, if you don't want it on the internet, don't put it there in the first place.

I sell through my RFD... I kinda assumed everybody else did.

What's rule #2 of the For Sale forum charter?

Im just pointing out that if people can get past an FCA1 form and go through all the hassle of setting up a boards account- then one little pm isnt going to break the bank.

Yes, it is.
That FCA1 form has led to tens of thousands of firearms being handed in - and that's by people who'd had licences, who were past the worst of the obstacles to getting a firearm for sport or hunting. So saying it's not an obstacle is demonstrably false. We can help people get over it if they ask, but we're Irish - asking isn't something we do really well.

The same argument applies in the case of the random passer-by who happens on our forum and wants to ask about starting in the sport. We won't be putting more obstacles in their way, because the average age in our sport is in the mid-40s and it's going up, not down. And that's a really, really bad thing that we don't want to exacerbate.

Lets have a poll and we'll let the votes do the speaking. Its the fairest way.

No, for two main reasons:

1. We've tried that experiment, and it failed. It was a trainwreck. We're not going there again without a better reason than your unsupported assertion that it's fair (which it wouldn't be, anymore than giving ICABS equal time with the NARGC in the media is).
2. This isn't the colour of the bike shed we're talking about, it's the guts of the nuclear reactor. (Parkinson's law of triviality, in case that doesn't sound familiar). Most people don't know much about computer security, every study shows that humans are just woefully bad at risk assessment, and very few know how online communities react to things like this - so asking them to decide what to do would be like asking a fry cook to do thoracic surgery because hey, it's all meat...

[

Gonzor

To be honest I could sit here all night arguing with you. But I really couldnt be bothered anymore to be quite honest with you.

But like I said, based on how many people thanked bitemybangers post I still think you should let the wider community decide but both yourself and landkeeper have spoken... so we'll leave it at that then.

Cass

Gonzor wrote: »

But like I said, based on how many people thanked bitemybangers post I still think you should let the wider community decide but both yourself and landkeeper have spoken... so we'll leave it at that then.

20. Out of thouands of members.

The last poll that was held was a disaster. It will not be happening again. So allow me to "finalise" the decision. There will be no poll, the forum will not be made private, there will be no admittance form/procedure.

Use the privacy settings i showed you in my previous posts if you are concerned. Turn off GPS locators on your phone cameras, etc.

Manic Moran

But like I said, based on how many people thanked bitemybangers post

No offence to those lads but.... They're wrong. Or at best, short-sighted.

A niche sport needs all the positive publicity it can get in order to become anything other than a niche sport. (And face it, shooting is hardly mainstream in Ireland). Reducing negative publicity does not get you anything. That means making it as easy as possible for people to get good information. Any barrier, even if it's a simple 'May I get into your forum please" PM is going to be a significant barrier to entry. The figures on such things are shocking, in my current company as an online game manufacturer we track every click and step a customer makes. You won't believe how many people will register, get the confirmation email, and not bother just clicking the 'confirm' hyperlink. Every single click required on the web page or other such action results in a percentage drop-off of the audience. And that's before you get to the whole issue of 'Why do they feel the need to hide themselves?!' perception problem.

In the meantime, we're talking about people who will go through the effort of...

But yet here on boards those same people can cross over to the shooting section and backtrack through all my posts (which actually happened not long ago, someone took a dislike to me and decided to see could he dig up dirt)... The guy found out what exact guns I have. How many people live in the house with me... what I work at... what hours I work... etc

And we're expected to think that someone who goes through all that effort is going to thwarted by having to send a pro-forma PM!? Or just having an arbitrary amount of posts on Boards?

It's like talking about American airport security. "Let's do something which is terribly self-defeating and inconvenient, but it's a placebo to make us all feel better without doing anything about the core problem"

NTM

Gonzor

Ezridax wrote: »

20. Out of thouands of members.

I didnt realise that the shooting section of boards.ie had thousands of regular members :eek:

fodda

Can i ask why Boards lock the posts you have made after a couple of days so when someone wants to edit what they have posted, they are then unable to do this because it has been disabled and the info they may not want there anymore they can do nothing about.

willcork

Hi all,
Its really quite simple, if someone offers you large ammounts of money to commit a crime then you are obliged to contact the gardai and make them aware of it.
As to restricting access to this forum i feel it would be a disaster. I post very rarely here, as does my brother, but i can assure you that we would just go elsewhere to post if we had to apply for access or any of that nonsense. It would not serve our community in any way

Local-womanizer

As willcork said, I don't post here much either but when I have had to ask for advice I got an answer pretty quick.

And lets be honest, If I had to go through the hassle of registering for this forum ,then wait for me to be accepted, in that time I could have got my answer somewhere else.

It's grand the way it is, as others have said just be vigilant in your dealings, as you should be with anything on the internet.

Cass

Gonzor wrote: »

I didnt realise that the shooting section of boards.ie had thousands of regular members :eek:

Now you do.

fodda wrote: »

Can i ask why Boards lock the posts you have made after a couple of days so when someone wants to edit what they have posted, they are then unable to do this because it has been disabled and the info they may not want there anymore they can do nothing about.

For context.

If people were able to constantly edit posts the context of a thread could change and if someone made a remark, stated something then edited a day, week, month year later it leaves all other posts out of context, and ends up wrecking threads.

Its also a system thing. There is not any one person doing it. You have, i think, 48 hours to edit a post then it remains as is. Also this will not be changed, and is beyond the powers of the Mods, and CatMods to do even if it were so desired.

fodda

Ezridax wrote: »

Now you do.

For context.

If people were able to constantly edit posts the context of a thread could change and if someone made a remark, stated something then edited a day, week, month year later it leaves all other posts out of context, and ends up wrecking threads.

Its also a system thing. There is not any one person doing it. You have, i think, 48 hours to edit a post then it remains as is. Also this will not be changed, and is beyond the powers of the Mods, and CatMods to do even if it were so desired.

So is this a forum (talking place) or a collector of information, or both?

Who do the posts made by members belong too?

Hunter21

I know firearm security is a big issue but as with everything in Ireland it's complicated enough to get things as it is.
An employer can make sure an employee has a safe pass done and inform him that he or she wears the protective equipment, it's common sense that the employee wears the equipment.
Same as firearm security! Most of it is common sense, keep stuff in safe secure places and keep your info to yourself.

Making boards more "secure" is not the answer, members need to be responsible do their own actions too it's not always up to admin/moderators to make it 100% secure.

It's easy for some to say "sure block off all outsiders" cause your inside looking out, remember once you were an outsider too trying to find info. Don't make it harder for newbies lads.

Cass

fodda wrote: »

So is this a forum (talking place) or a collector of information, or both?

Who do the posts made by members belong too?

its a discussion forum, and also a place tfor newbies/members/non members to gather info on topics related to shooting.

As for the posts. I'm not getting into this with you. If you have an issue with how long a post can be edited for contact an admin, and complain to them. I have no say, power, control over it.

I've given you the reason as i see it.

Sparks

fodda wrote: »

Who do the posts made by members belong too?

You ought to know already, since you agreed to the Boards.ie terms and conditions when you signed up and they specifically deal with this issue (you'd never sign a legally binding agreement without reading it, right?):

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