Food preservation

H.O.T.A.S.

Hey Guys

Anyone want to go over some of their food preservation techniques?

I've been experimenting with ways of storing Brown Rice due to the added health benefits over White Rice. Unfortunately Brown Rice has a recommended shelf life of 6 months so it is not ideal for long term storage without proper precautions.

I use 3-5 Litre Mason Kilner Jars



Jars are sterilized before use and allowed to air dry. Then filled with rice and a silica gel desiccant pack placed in the top of the jar. After one week the desiccant pack is removed and an oxygen absorber placed in the top of the jar and resealed.

Because I'm building up my supplies bit by bit it's not economical for me to buy a bulk pack of oxygen absorbers



that have to be used quickly once the airtight plastic bag is open. I've found an easy to buy alternative though, disposable pocket hand warmers such as the ones available form hiking stores and golf shops



These hand warmers contain the same ingredients as the oxygen absorbers and work on the same principles but have the advantage of being individually sealed, large enough to be used without calculating the cubic capacity of your storage container and being readily available in Ireland. One downside is the cost though

I recently opened one of the jars that had past the 6 month period and found no discernable traces of the rice being rancid.

Anyone else experimenting out there and would like to share their experiences?

Corsendonk

Just read a few food history books, a few thousand years of tried and tested methods can't be wrong.

Delancey

One thing we should all be aware of is that Display By / Best Before dates on modern food packaging are there for the purposes of stock control by the retailer and are not truly indicative of when the food may spoil.
I just took a look at a can of tuna I bought today , Best Before date is August 2014 - I'd bet that in 2016 that would still be as perfect as the day it was canned.
Similarly a bag of dried pasta has a date of May 2013 - I would think dried pasta would last a lot longer than that especially if the seal on the bag was left intact.

The UK government is looking at legislation to reduce the huge volume of food thrown out every year and those dates are high on their target list.

Yet having said that some dates are pretty accurate - ever tried drinking beer out of date by a few weeks anyone ?

Any other ideas of food that can be expected to last a lot longer that dates suggest ?

meathstevie

Delancey wrote: »

One thing we should all be aware of is that Display By / Best Before dates on modern food packaging are there for the purposes of stock control by the retailer and are not truly indicative of when the food may spoil.
I just took a look at a can of tuna I bought today , Best Before date is August 2014 - I'd bet that in 2016 that would still be as perfect as the day it was canned.
Similarly a bag of dried pasta has a date of May 2013 - I would think dried pasta would last a lot longer than that especially if the seal on the bag was left intact.

The UK government is looking at legislation to reduce the huge volume of food thrown out every year and those dates are high on their target list.

Yet having said that some dates are pretty accurate - ever tried drinking beer out of date by a few weeks anyone ?

Any other ideas of food that can be expected to last a lot longer that dates suggest ?

I don't realy buy the beer one. If you're talking the sort of American pish that's commonly refered to as beer you're quite right. If you're talking the good continental stuff that's fermented in the bottle it can outlast the best before date by a long long time if stored correctly.

Grizzly 45

The drier the food the longer it will last. IOW rice and grains if stored correctly should out last your natural lifespan.Think wheat found in Egyptian tombs that was perfectly edible thousands of years later.

I still have some canned German "1000 year bread" that my parents brought over in the 1960s.[Must post up a pic of it]Its black bread and one slice of this stuff would keep you chewing for two hours at least.Last one we opened for giggles was in the year 2000,and it was perfectly wholesome,if rather a challange to eat.:eek:.But the point is if it is dry foodstuff,it will last a long time.


TIP on dessicants.
Get them for FREE! Go to any camera,electronic shop or computor store,and ask them for them out of the packaging.They are the little white sachets with Silica Gel DO NOT EAT written over them.I got all mine that way.If they are wet,simply take them and chuck the packages onto a heater or oven and they dry out in no time for reuse.

If it is very hot weather,or you visit such climes.The Americans had a great invention called the cool snake.Its simply a bandana cloth tube,filled with sillica gel crystals and sealed at both ends.Anyone handy with needle and thread can make this.You simply dunk it in water and the crystals activate and swell up and fill the tube.You wear it around your neck like a scarf and it is lovely and cool in intense heat as it is cooling your neck where two major arteries are located.I used one in Arziona for a year in my pilot days and it was the best 5dollars ever invested by me .

Delancey

meathstevie wrote: »

I don't realy buy the beer one. If you're talking the sort of American pish that's commonly refered to as beer you're quite right. If you're talking the good continental stuff that's fermented in the bottle it can outlast the best before date by a long long time if stored correctly.

For what its worth it was a can of Smithwicks - absolutely vile and only a coupla months gone.
Perhaps it was the fact it was canned was the issue ?

Grizzly 45

Smithwicks is vile anyway,wether fresh or gone off...Amazed you could tell the difference!:D:D

krissovo

I am keen on tips to store food that you have grown yourself. Things like spuds, carrots or greens. Can these be stored through the winter? can they be stored for longer?

Grizzly 45

Indeed they can.Spuds you clamp them. Lay down a thick base of straw outside in the garden where you want to store them.You build a pile of spuds.Its kind of hard to describe the shape of the pile,but you want it round rather than pinnicaled.Cover this over with a thick layer of straw and then cover this with a good thick layer of earth.
To use you cut into one side and remove your spuds as needed.Some people re cover the spuds with earth after taking their needs ,others leave it open.
Apprently this can be done with most root crops.Trick seems to be to keep them cool and dark.

Corsendonk

Delancey wrote: »

One thing we should all be aware of is that Display By / Best Before dates on modern food packaging are there for the purposes of stock control by the retailer and are not truly indicative of when the food may spoil.
I just took a look at a can of tuna I bought today , Best Before date is August 2014 - I'd bet that in 2016 that would still be as perfect as the day it was canned.
Similarly a bag of dried pasta has a date of May 2013 - I would think dried pasta would last a lot longer than that especially if the seal on the bag was left intact.

The UK government is looking at legislation to reduce the huge volume of food thrown out every year and those dates are high on their target list.

Yet having said that some dates are pretty accurate - ever tried drinking beer out of date by a few weeks anyone ?

Any other ideas of food that can be expected to last a lot longer that dates suggest ?

Display Until/Best Before are actually the date that the food quality will start to decline after. You still have to assess the quality yourself. Sometimes for a variety of reasons food can fail to reach that date in an edible form.

With cans if its "blow" don't touch it unless you want to kill yourself or go on a slimfast diet. Nutritional content will leach over time so you don't want to live on a diet of long life food so best to have a ready source of meat and fruit and veg.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Indeed they can.Spuds you clamp them. Lay down a thick base of straw outside in the garden where you want to store them.You build a pile of spuds.Its kind of hard to describe the shape of the pile,but you want it round rather than pinnicaled.Cover this over with a thick layer of straw and then cover this with a good thick layer of earth.
To use you cut into one side and remove your spuds as needed.Some people re cover the spuds with earth after taking their needs ,others leave it open.
Apprently this can be done with most root crops.Trick seems to be to keep them cool and dark.

The Irish term is pitting, dig a hole in the ground, line with straw then with the spuds or cabbage and cover. Carrots can be stored in sand boxes, rows of carrots covered with sand and then straw. Irish winters are mainly mild so often potato farmers risk over wintering part of the crop in the ground. In the days before refridgeration people used stone floor larders or cellers for most dry goods or pickles/preserves. In modern day central heating houses you get such pests as psocids in rice unless its in a vacuum pack.

Pickling, making preserves, drying and salting are important storage techniques that if you do throughtout the summer and autumn should provide you with enough stocks throughout the winter well into the spring. You can do home canning but I don't recommend as always every year a few deaths from botulism caused by not reaching the correct temp during the canning process.

meathstevie

Leeks can be kept banked up in earth for ages after harvesting them, straw or cloth sacking to keep the frost off and bob's you're uncle.
Turnips can be stored exactly the same way as described above for spuds provided that you cut off the greens ( same for sugarbeet etc ).
Spuds can also be stored indoors in a dark dry place ( dark because they go green and sprout if not kept in the dark ).
Oats will keep for a long long time as well when stored dry and dark. Apples and pears stored cool and dry will keep for months as well.
And than there's stuff like kale and sprouts that are very hardy plants you can just leave standing and harvest bits and pieces at a time.

H.O.T.A.S.

I remember reading somewhere that Canned Goods are generally good for 7 years when stored correctly. This number though can be affected by the acidity of the contents, higher the acidity the lower the shelf life. Although there have been cases of canned meats (low acidity) been opened over 100 years after the date of manufacture and still being perfectly edible, whether you're brave enough to try this is a different story though.

fodda

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Indeed they can.Spuds you clamp them. Lay down a thick base of straw outside in the garden where you want to store them.You build a pile of spuds.Its kind of hard to describe the shape of the pile,but you want it round rather than pinnicaled.Cover this over with a thick layer of straw and then cover this with a good thick layer of earth.
To use you cut into one side and remove your spuds as needed.Some people re cover the spuds with earth after taking their needs ,others leave it open.
Apprently this can be done with most root crops.Trick seems to be to keep them cool and dark.

In a survival situation this is a no-no Grizzly and i would say in any situation.

If stored underground like this the veg will be preserved but this valuable food crop is open to vermin attack/uprooting, theft, water logging and hard ground prolonged winter conditions which will freeze soil to great depths. Also it is hard to see if any produce has failed and is causing problems with the rest.

Store food like this in a shed in boxes on top of straw bales surrounded by straw bales (at least one top-side and bottom) and that will keep the hardest of cold weather at bay. In a shed away from vermin protected from theft etc.

waterboy15

fodda wrote: »

In a survival situation this is a no-no Grizzly and i would say in any situation.

If stored underground like this the veg will be preserved but this valuable food crop is open to vermin attack/uprooting, theft, water logging and hard ground prolonged winter conditions which will freeze soil to great depths. Also it is hard to see if any produce has failed and is causing problems with the rest.

Store food like this in a shed in boxes on top of straw bales surrounded by straw bales (at least one top-side and bottom) and that will keep the hardest of cold weather at bay. In a shed away from vermin protected from theft etc.

You bet me to it, vermin attack outdoors or even in a shed would be a big risk.

fodda

waterboy15 wrote: »

You bet me to it, vermin attack outdoors or even in a shed would be a big risk.

At the moment i store my spuds in cardboard boxes on straw bales and covered in straw bales so that any rotten ones can be easily located and damage limited, but when i have time i will make wooden same size boxes and a straw bale used as insulation will protect in the coldest of weather, supply a constant temp and allow air to circulate. The new wooden boxs should be fairly vermin proof.

And all this is accessable with ease.

Corsendonk

waterboy15 wrote: »

You bet me to it, vermin attack outdoors or even in a shed would be a big risk.

Always can eat them:D Protein is Protein

Grizzly 45

fodda wrote: »

In a survival situation this is a no-no Grizzly and i would say in any situation.

If stored underground like this the veg will be preserved but this valuable food crop is open to vermin attack/uprooting, theft, water logging and hard ground prolonged winter conditions which will freeze soil to great depths. Also it is hard to see if any produce has failed and is causing problems with the rest.

Store food like this in a shed in boxes on top of straw bales surrounded by straw bales (at least one top-side and bottom) and that will keep the hardest of cold weather at bay. In a shed away from vermin protected from theft etc.

Very true Fodda.However we have been using it for centuries here,and the other problem is would you have a tater shed big enough for an acre of spuds in a semi d??:) Ratsdo seem to be a given with this method of storage alright,so an investment in a four legged predator of said rats on a retreat is a good idea too.[Cat,Jack Russel Terrier,or Ferrett] as poisions and bait will run out as well.

Grizzly 45

However you could grow the spuds in a barrel,and then use said barrels once emptied of soil for spud storage.

Sticky_Fingers

Another suggestion would be to dehydrate your produce, it's a bit labour intensive but when done right you can store stacks of food in your cupboards without fear of vermin or thieves. It also retains nearly all of the nutritional value of the food so it may be looking into.
Here is a first in a series of videos to show how its done:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxVpIHre2ao

Don't want to lay out money for a dehydrator or the power is off, then make your own:

Note: If I were doing this I'd get rid of the glass front and just have a matt black door, all that Sun may not be good.

Also if you are really stuck you probably already have something sitting outside your house that can be used in a pinch....your car!

fodda

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

However you could grow the spuds in a barrel,and then use said barrels once emptied of soil for spud storage.

Spuds in a barrel???......Behave Grizzly where will i put the grog?;)

H.O.T.A.S.

Has anyone tried pickling foodstuffs?

eth0

Delancey wrote: »

One thing we should all be aware of is that Display By / Best Before dates on modern food packaging are there for the purposes of stock control by the retailer and are not truly indicative of when the food may spoil.
I just took a look at a can of tuna I bought today , Best Before date is August 2014 - I'd bet that in 2016 that would still be as perfect as the day it was canned.
Similarly a bag of dried pasta has a date of May 2013 - I would think dried pasta would last a lot longer than that especially if the seal on the bag was left intact.

The UK government is looking at legislation to reduce the huge volume of food thrown out every year and those dates are high on their target list.

Yet having said that some dates are pretty accurate - ever tried drinking beer out of date by a few weeks anyone ?

Any other ideas of food that can be expected to last a lot longer that dates suggest ?

Recently I opened a jar of hamburger relish and had some, only after I realised the expiry date on the lid was in 2005. Tasted grand though, so I had some more.

Misty Moon

krissovo wrote: »

I am keen on tips to store food that you have grown yourself. Things like spuds, carrots or greens. Can these be stored through the winter? can they be stored for longer?

Just going to read the rest of the thread now so apologies if this has already been mentioned. I'd recommend a book called Root Cellaring by Mike and Nancy Bubel. In fact, I just bought it recently after having it gotten in out of the library when I first heard about it. It would either have been Rathmines or Terenure library I got it out of so you could have a read before committing to buying anything.

And then there are the various ways of processing your food to store it, canning/bottling, drying, fermenting etc. but I'll read the rest of the thread before commenting further.

Misty Moon

I definitely would recommend canning as a method of preservation. With proper attention to detail, some basic hygiene and common sense there is no reason to be scared of it. If you do it properly, you shouldn't have any problems. You do need to be careful to use current guidelines and make sure your equipment is in good working order, obviously. At the moment I only have a water bath canner so I don't do any meat or veg (unless the veg has had acid added in the form of vinegar to pickle it) but I'm saving up to get a pressure canner so that I can do that as well.

I haven't done anything this year for a variety of reasons but I will start up again early next year and be back into full swing by the summer hopefully. I don't have my own garden or balcony so I have to mostly buy what I process but it's still important to me to do it, partly because my own stuff just always tastes better and partly because I want the independence of knowing how to do it. And there's definitely a learning curve so I want to get really good at it while I still do have the option of phoning for a pizza if it doesn't work out properly.

I've built up a good supply of jars of various types over the last three years. That is one thing I am really grateful to having moved over here for, much easier to source lot of jars here without completely breaking the bank.

Some of the things I did last year include:

• tomatoes (plain, whole)
• tomatoes, chopped with herbs
• chutney
• jam
• dried tomatoes
• dried mushrooms
• dried apple
• dried strawberries
• dried currants
• fruit leathers
• dilly beans (pickled)
• piccalilli
• bread and butter pickles (cucumber)
• salsa
• plum vodka
• apple juice
• apple puree

The pickling I've done was adding various spices and vinegars to veg and then processing them in jars in the water bath. I haven't tried my hand at fermenting yet but want to keep a lookout for some large stone crocks to try out making sauerkraut next year too.

Dehydrating is probably one of my favourite methods of preservation. The only problem I have sometimes is not eating the stuff faster than I'm processing it.

The apple juice was done using a steam-juicer (something like this one). The steaming means it's essentially pasteurised and if put into hot sterilised jars that then seal properly, it'll keep for a couple of months at least. Lovely to have some around christmas time. I was hopping mad last April when I found two more jars in a place I normally never keep foodstuffs. Wasn't mouldy or anything but was definitely starting to turn. I've kept those jars but still haven't gotten around to what I intended, which is to see if I can get some vinegar going. Learning how to make vinegar and getting some experience in that is very close to next on my list of what to learn.

I've eaten most of the above at this stage and with the exception of a few jars (maybe four or five out of a few hundred over the last three years), it has all been good. Of those bad jars, two had very obviously mould growing on them and just hadn't sealed properly and the others might have been okay but just smelled not quite right. If I'd been starving I might have taken my chances but since I'm not, out they went.

ajhalpin

I keep chickens so I pickled some eggs this year. They came out well, although I have to say they arent the most appetising thing in the world. I used beetroot juice in one lot which turned the eggs bright pink. I put habenaro chilies in another lot. Actually they were the best ones. The beetroot ones were rubbish.

Also, in case you didn't know. There is a shop in kilkenny that sells original Ball jars all different sizes by the case load. €18 a case. Can't remember the name of the shop.

bonniebede

I am starting this thread to talk about methods of storing and preserving food.:pac::pac::pac:

In a post collapse scenario, feeding the family is going to be a combination of growing and preserving, so this is a set of skills I want to develop.

If anyone has tips or resource recommendations I would be very interested.
I have been exploring root cellaring.

Got this book.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Store-Your-Garden-Produce-Self-sufficiency/dp/190032217X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1325339309&sr=1-1

Interesting but not very informative. One could probably get the same info off the internet.:(

But make sure you do take it off the internet because if the lecky goes you will need a hard copy.

Today I discovered Tattlers reusable canning lids. I had been exploring getting a pressure canner , but had given up the idea as you need a supply or use-once rubber gaspets. But these guys make a reusable lid, so with a pressure canner, jars, lids, and a fire (rocket stove) one could preserve a lot of meat veg and fruit off grid.
Still looking for a source of these lids in Europe, the company does not ship here. I might import some, if anyone is interested in sharing the cost with me.

bonniebede

these guys will ship to ireland

http://www.lehmans.com/store/Kitchen___Canning_and_Preserving___Canning_Helpers___Reusable_Canning_Jar_Lids___1141085?Args=

Tabnabs

(Threads merged)

Khannie

Delancey wrote: »

Any other ideas of food that can be expected to last a lot longer that dates suggest ?

I'm guessing but:

Jam / Honey.
Bottled water.
Most soft drinks (I've had a reasonable amount of vanilla coke that was well past the use by date with no ill effects).
Sugar - I'm guessing this is basically indefinitely good.
White pasta / rice.
White flour.

At a push I'd say most things that have a very low fat content would be good beyond their use by date. Any fat content (like the germ in brown flour / rice / any wholegrain product) will cause the food to go rancid much faster.

Cardinal Richelieu

Khannie wrote: »

I'm guessing but:

Jam / Honey.
Bottled water.
Most soft drinks (I've had a reasonable amount of vanilla coke that was well past the use by date with no ill effects).
Sugar - I'm guessing this is basically indefinitely good.
White pasta / rice.
White flour.

At a push I'd say most things that have a very low fat content would be good beyond their use by date. Any fat content (like the germ in brown flour / rice / any wholegrain product) will cause the food to go rancid much faster.

Depends too on storage conditions. Psocids have become a major problem in rice and flours since central heating became popular. The cold dry Victorian larder never had the same problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwR2uj1FhiI

Doc Ruby

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwR2uj1FhiI

I keep waiting for Barry White to intone "awww yeah" somewhere in that soundtrack...

bonniebede

protein, awww yeah....

bonniebede

Musgravew cash and carry do real kilner preseving jars, 1/2 and 1 litre sizes, with metal ring and lid for home canning/preserving /bottling. About 2 euros and 2.30 respectively.
Will order in as many as wanted.

Peetrik

Speaking of insects, does anyone know how easy would it be to farm insects as an additional protein source?

Could it be as simple as a decent size fish tank and some grasshopper larvae?

bonniebede

Peetrik wrote: »

Speaking of insects, does anyone know how easy would it be to farm insects as an additional protein source?

Could it be as simple as a decent size fish tank and some grasshopper larvae?

Why not slugs and snails... both edible, believe snails taste better though yet to take the taste test. They were after all imported as food and then escaped. Thanks to whoever thought that was a good idea. Feral snails:eek:
But I think a chicken is your way to go protein. They will happily eat insects, slugs and snails and pop out very acceptable, well wrapped protein portions just in time for breakfast. And if they don't they make tasty protein portions themselves.:D

I'd go with snails, easy to catch a breeding population to start with, easy to feed, easy to catch. Lets face it which would you rather be trying to spear for dinner, a snail or a grasshopper?

Peetrik

Probably grasshopper, I'v had snail a couple of times and had mixed experience with it, all in the preperation I suppose.

Obviously Chicken would be tastier, I suppose I was thinking insects would be easier to conceal, less likely to lose them to foxes/poachers, wouldnt have to keep grain for them etc

bonniebede

Peetrik wrote: »

Probably grasshopper, I'v had snail a couple of times and had mixed experience with it, all in the preperation I suppose.

Obviously Chicken would be tastier, I suppose I was thinking insects would be easier to conceal, less likely to lose them to foxes/poachers, wouldnt have to keep grain for them etc

Use the chickens as live bait and catch the foxes and poachers in snares. Eat them too.

baords dyslexic

bonniebede wrote: »

Use the chickens as live bait and catch the foxes and poachers in snares. Eat them too.

And don't let me ever catch you swallowing a fly

colonel-yum-yum

It seems the quality of the food stored makes a difference too. This is a photo taken 3 years after buying chips from mcdonalds and kfc and storing them in identical containers.
(not that anyone would store them of course!)

baords dyslexic

colonel-yum-yum wrote: »

It seems the quality of the food stored makes a difference too. This is a photo taken 3 years after buying chips from mcdonalds and kfc and storing them in identical containers.
(not that anyone would store them of course!)

But 3 years after the SHTF you might be tempted to eat them :pac:

colonel-yum-yum

baords dyslexic wrote: »

But 3 years after the SHTF you might be tempted to eat them :pac:

Who are we kidding. 3 years after the SHTF I'd probably eat the jar!

baords dyslexic

colonel-yum-yum wrote: »

Who are we kidding. 3 years after the SHTF I'd probably eat the jar!

I heard an interesting definition of hunger once from an instructor on a survival exercie "You'll know when your really hungry, when you sit down and your arse starts nibbling at the grass".