Public Libraries are they now unnecessary

44leto

I love the concept of public libraries. Anyone can walk in, join, get a book, a film, read a magazine, research something or go online and all for free. I have used my local library for years, but now not as much as I use to.

With Ireaders, free downloads, the internet and message boards for research, have libraries had their day.

If the government decided to close them would the impact on the public be that much??

amacca

44leto wrote: »

I love the concept of public libraries. Anyone can walk in, join, get a book, a film, read a magazine, research something or go online and all for free. I have used my local library for years, but now not as much as I use to.

With Ireaders, free downloads, the internet and message boards for research, have libraries had their day.

If the government decided to close them would the impact on the public be that much??

if they digitized archive material etc and made electronic copies of books available for a similar membership fee (or increased/decreased to cover operating costs but not for profit) in an online public library I think they could be done without eventually

when the vast majority of people have stable fast reliable internet access that they actually use then I cant see a big problem unless there would be copyright issues or something?

biko

Libraries have not had their day. When is the last you went? They're not as full as when I was a kid but people still attend them, borrow books etc.
1 in 5 Irish people doesn't use the internet so they still need this service and tbh many users of the internet could do with reading some books too.

Techno_Toaster

No I don't think so. I use my local library quite a bit as I don't have a printer. I also use it to rent out books frequently. It always seems to have a nice crowd in it too

L.Jenkins

Have a library membership for the sake of borrowing a few books. Military and political history does be an interesting Rad from time to time.

Run_to_da_hills

People still use Libraries for reference, photocopying, relaxing and even reading daily papers.

ChunkyLover_53

OPs right lets burn 'em. Stupid books!

I got matches, whos with me?...wait are matches obsolete because of lighters?

BURN MATCHES!!!

amacca

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

People still use Libraries for reference, photocopying, relaxing and even reading daily papers.

man I hate relaxing in my local library...it feels so forced

(compared that is to being at home free to indulge in what some might consider to be poor personal hygiene)

snickerpuss

amacca wrote: »

if they digitized archive material etc and made electronic copies of books available for a similar membership fee (or increased/decreased to cover operating costs but not for profit) in an online public library I think they could be done without eventually

when the vast majority of people have stable fast reliable internet access that they actually use then I cant see a big problem unless there would be copyright issues or something?

The cost of digitising every book and archive collection held in the country would be huge. Not to mention the cost of ensuring all this data isn't corrupted, contains the correct metadata, and eventually migrating it onto newer media.

Plus at home you might not know where to look and researchers would miss the vast expertise on collections that archivists and librarians have. Also the original material would need to be preserved somewhere and in the case of archive material it still needs specialised storage to stop paper rotting/becoming damaged. So probably just extra costs or just allowing access to a tiny percentage of archive material.

44leto

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

People still use Libraries for reference, photocopying, relaxing and even reading daily papers.

And study, it was invaluable to me when I was studying for my leaving cert, a bit of quiet time away from my big family and hectic house. A lot of kids still use them for this function.

But in times when we are facing hospital closures, are the services a public library offer worth retaining.

A bit off topic but the same could be said for public swimming pools.

44leto

ChunkyLover_53 wrote: »

OPs right lets burn 'em. Stupid books!

I got matches, whos with me?...wait are matches obsolete because of lighters?

BURN MATCHES!!!

Book burning has also had its day, it would be "difficult" to burn the internet.

Jagle

[QUOTE=ChunkyLover_53;76229566
I got matches, whos with me?...wait are matches obsolete because of lighters?
[/QUOTE]

lighters were invented first...

juan.kerr

44leto wrote: »

Book burning has also had its day, it would be "difficult" to burn the internet.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't try...

cloud493

My local library is usually fairly busy every time I go in. Free internet, free access to books and what not, its a great facility.

44leto

biko wrote: »

Libraries have not had their day. When is the last you went? They're not as full as when I was a kid but people still attend them, borrow books etc.
1 in 5 Irish people doesn't use the internet so they still need this service and tbh many users of the internet could do with reading some books too.

I read an average of 2 to 3 books a month, I am always stuck into a book. I was always that way. But I have never promoted the so called benefits of reading. I read like others play a video game, or watch the tele, for pleasure, a bit of escapism. I don't see it a higher form of entertainment, my avid reading does not make me a better person.

As for internet access, you could introduce and promote free WiFi zones, it would be a lot cheaper.

beeroclock

cloud493 wrote: »

My local library is usually fairly busy every time I go in. Free internet, free access to books and what not, its a great facility.

Yep same with me it would be a mega sad day if they were ever to close

This internet thing wont take off anyway

ChunkyLover_53

44leto wrote: »

Book burning has also had its day, it would be "difficult" to burn the internet.

Well, what do you want to burn then?

Come back to us when you make up your mind. Stop teasing us.

44leto

cloud493 wrote: »

My local library is usually fairly busy every time I go in. Free internet, free access to books and what not, its a great facility.

Wonderful is the word I use, any nationality, any social class anybody has equal access to its many services and all hassle and cost free also in my experience the staff are always great and very helpful.

44leto

ChunkyLover_53 wrote: »

Well, what do you want to burn then?

Come back to us when you make up your mind. Stop teasing us.

Our deficit, public waste etc.

Come back to this thread when you have something intelligent to contribute.

ChunkyLover_53

44leto wrote: »

Our deficit, public waste etc.

Come back to this thread when you have something intelligent to contribute.

Welcome to After Hours!

So the premise of this thread is that you are happy with the current Status Quo in our local libraries?

Thanks for your contribution. But a Thank You card to your local library would have been a better idea.

littleredspot

I rarely borrow books but there's plenty of other things on, especially for kids. Mine love book readings and we've been to talks, puppet shows and our Christmas dinner table was crowned with a centerpiece made by my kids in the library. All for free too! The free dvd hire is handy too.

They also act as a focal point for the community, with lots of info, busy noticeboards, and as a host for talks/displays about relevant community issues. As mentioned by a previous poster, this is all accessible to everyone.

later12

My local library has been mainly used by the blue rinse brigade for as long as I can remember.

I would only ever go there the odd time to find if they had a book I couldn't find in local bookshops, as I prefer to keep books after I've read them, and the library, understandably, don't appreciate this.

After older people, the other major cohort who use libraries tend to be young students, and to be honest they could usually just use their local school to study instead. I know that when I was young, we only opted for the library because there was no supervision.

I don't think it serves a significant purpose, and although I like the idea of a public library system, it surely must have to reform or be abolished.

Dudess

Depends on the library. I temped in the Cork central one a few years ago and it was dead, but local ones tend to have more going on.
Definitely don't think it should be abolished.

44leto

snickerpuss wrote: »

The cost of digitising every book and archive collection held in the country would be huge. Not to mention the cost of ensuring all this data isn't corrupted, contains the correct metadata, and eventually migrating it onto newer media.

Plus at home you might not know where to look and researchers would miss the vast expertise on collections that archivists and librarians have. Also the original material would need to be preserved somewhere and in the case of archive material it still needs specialised storage to stop paper rotting/becoming damaged. So probably just extra costs or just allowing access to a tiny percentage of archive material.

Its already done, all the classics are already digitised and available on line for free. Also all new publications are digitised for the ireaders. You would just be accessing information all ready out there.

The Irish government would not have to do this and I never said get rid of university libraries BUT all those archive material is also well on its way to been digitised. For example there is international academic controversy over the Israelis refusal to digitise the already restored dead sea scrolls.

Johnny Foreigner

44leto wrote: »

I love the concept of public libraries. Anyone can walk in, join, get a book, a film, read a magazine, research something or go online and all for free. I have used my local library for years, but now not as much as I use to.

With Ireaders, free downloads, the internet and message boards for research, have libraries had their day.

If the government decided to close them would the impact on the public be that much??

The African school children would have to go home after school to study as their parents work on the taxi rank.

juan.kerr

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

The African school children would have to go home after school to study as their parents work on the taxi rank.

Can we not send them back to africa? Kill two birds with one stone.

CdeP

later10 wrote: »

My local library has been mainly used by the blue rinse brigade for as long as I can remember.

I would only ever go there the odd time to find if they had a book I couldn't find in local bookshops, as I prefer to keep books after I've read them, and the library, understandably, don't appreciate this.

After older people, the other major cohort who use libraries tend to be young students, and to be honest they could usually just use their local school to study instead. I know that when I was young, we only opted for the library because there was no supervision.

I don't think it serves a significant purpose, and although I like the idea of a public library system, it surely must have to reform or be abolished.

You acknowledge that both students and elderly people avail of the services provided by libraries and yet you say the don't serve " a significant purpose"?

Toby Take a Bow

44leto wrote: »

Its already done, all the classics are already digitised and available on line for free. Also all new publications are digitised for the ireaders. You would just be accessing information all ready out there.

The Irish government would not have to do this and I never said get rid of university libraries BUT all those archive material is also well on its way to been digitised. For example there is international academic controversy over the Israelis refusal to digitise the already restored dead sea scrolls.

There's also the problem of digitised material deteriorating over time. I think the libraries of the future will probably have a significant role to play in maintaining digital material for the future. In addition to this, as has been said previously, there will be new formats in the future. Things aren't going to stay the same and it'd be pretty short-term to think that we've reached the pinnacle of innovation.

Also, we don't know the rate of people switching to electronic formats, whether there will be a certain high-point with others sticking with paper formats, or whether there will be a significant amount of people using dual formats.

And that's just the book element of the library. Libraries seem really adaptable (well, some of them anyway) at changing to meet the demands of what the public want. We don't know what's around the corner, but having libraries available to meet those demands is incredibly important.

later12

CdeP wrote: »

You acknowledge that both students and elderly people avail of the services provided by libraries and yet you say the don't serve " a significant purpose"?

Absolutely.

In pointing out that the libraries are mainly used by old age pensioners and young people, I'm making a point that, in my experience, they are generally only used by very identifiable cohorts of the population.

In the case of young people, as I said, the same function can be carried out by schools (which only open about 35 hours per week, less than most libraries; this could be amended).

What I felt was implied by my reference to the blue rinse brigade was that this cohort are dying off. The population that will replace them in the elderly age bracket are likely to be more computer literate, and may not be as dependent as the current elderly population on print journalism or print books.

Furthermore, while a library can be a fine social setting for the elderly (and going by the vocal chinwags that used to go on in mine, they are) I'm not sure it's a very efficient use of resources. If you want to provide a social amenity, why dress it up as a library? Surely a day care or community centre would be a far more efficient use of time, energy and resources.

Toby Take a Bow

later10 wrote: »

Furthermore, while a library can be a fine social setting for the elderly (and going by the vocal chinwags that used to go on in mine, they are) I'm not sure it's a very efficient use of resources. If you want to provide a social amenity, why dress it up as a library? Surely a day care or community centre would be a far more efficient use of time, energy and resources.

Depends on the library, surely? The ILAC library seems to have all kinds of ages, nationalities using it on a regular basis. Always packed. Maybe that's not replicated in some of the more out-of-the-way libraries, but it seems that if you offer a deeper range of services (and, of course, with a big population base) the people will come.

Mike 1972

Maybe in 30 - 50 years from now libraries will have had their day


But for now they remain an essential (but disgracefully underfunded) service

CdeP

later10 wrote: »

In the case of young people, as I said, the same function can be carried out by schools (which only open about 35 hours per week, less than most libraries; this could be amended).

This is true but, generally speaking, schools charge for this service. This is where libraries prove essential for those who wish to work in an environment conducive to good study but can't afford supervised after-school study.

later10 wrote: »

What I felt was implied by my reference to the blue rinse brigade was that this cohort are dying off. The population that will replace them in the elderly age bracket are likely to be more computer literate, and may not be as dependent as the current elderly population on print journalism or print books.

You're right. This is, of course, positive in many regards but it's also quite a depressing prospect in others.

later10 wrote: »

Furthermore, while a library can be a fine social setting for the elderly (and going by the vocal chinwags that used to go on in mine, they are) I'm not sure it's a very efficient use of resources. If you want to provide a social amenity, why dress it up as a library? Surely a day care or community centre would be a far more efficient use of time, energy and resources.

I don't think I understand the point you're making here. Whilst the library can serve as a social setting for some, that is, as you well know, not it's primary function. The countless other services that libraries provide have already been outlined by other posters.

figarofigaro

Cheap laptops made in China aren't going to be around forever. I think we should hang on to the books we have.

later12

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

Depends on the library, surely? The ILAC library seems to have all kinds of ages, nationalities using it on a regular basis. Always packed. Maybe that's not replicated in some of the more out-of-the-way libraries, but it seems that if you offer a deeper range of services (and, of course, with a big population base) the people will come.

Yes that's quite true about the ILAC, but I think it's largely a reflection if its location.

Most libraries neither have the resources, nor the diversity of customer that the Ilac library enjoys.

CdeP wrote: »

This is true but, generally speaking, schools charge for this service. This is where libraries prove essential for those who wish to work in an environment conducive to good study but can't afford supervised after-school study.

Librarians don't come cheap.

The point is that schools and libraries are both under-used buildings. The most frequent users of libraries - school going children - could have all of their resource needs met in a school.

It is true that the elderly are probably the second most common cohort of library user, but (i) this may change as they are replaced with increasingly technologically adept older people and (ii) it is not an efficient use of resources to provide libraries mainly as social outlets, which is one of the purposes that rural libraries serve in particular.

hatful

Where else can you go to read that is resonably quiet without having to pay for a cup of tea or coffee? Unemployed people can go and search for jobs online. Kids can attend special events, older people can join book groups or film clubs. No matter what anyone says libraries still have value as social spaces where you don't have to part with money in order to enjoy the facilities. Going to my local library is still cheaper than buying a kindle and purchasing e-books. People should be more concerned with the inevitable and present online piracy of e-books.

Johnny Foreigner

juan.kerr wrote: »

Can we not send them back to africa? Kill two birds with one stone.

I like the idea.

later12

hatful wrote: »

Where else can you go to read that is resonably quiet without having to pay for a cup of tea or coffee?

Your living room? Otherwise, tea costs about €2. It ought not be the role of the state to have to save you from spending €2 on tea.

Unemployed people can go and search for jobs online.

Most people have the internet; unemployment benefits, at about €188 per week, ought to be able to assist welfare recipients in using a €2 per hour internet cafe.

Kids can attend special events

Why can they not attend special events (for example, art and storytelling exhibitions) in a school? The irony is that schools are usually closed when these exhibitions take place - weekends and evenings.

Johnny Foreigner

figarofigaro wrote: »

Cheap laptops made in China aren't going to be around forever. I think we should hang on to the books we have.

Maybe not. But Kindles will though.

jam_mac_jam

They havent had their day, I am there about once a week, far from either a pensioner or a student. I have a kindle, I spend a lot of time on the internet yet I think borrowing books is a wonderful service. I dont see why they have had their day. They encourage people and children to read so I cant see why anyone would argue against them.

jam_mac_jam

Johnny Foreigner wrote: »

Maybe not. But Kindles will though.

You can still read books if you have a kindle you know.

GarIT

They should be centralised, some libraries are dead and should be closed or merged with others nearby. Theres needs to be some sort of a yearly and more expensive membership scheme so the libraries can sustain themselves. We have to pay more tax, more college fees and get less state benifits, but the people that use the library are uneffected.

later12

GarIT wrote: »

They should be centralised, some libraries are dead and should be closed or merged with others nearby.

This is true, but look at the outcry when Governments even try to close outlying district courthouses. Imagine the furore if it transpired that the Government wasn't going to provide the public with under-used public spaces used by cute children and the elderly.

Dionysus

I'm a huge fan of public libraries. I've been using them much more since last September. The online catalogue of Dublin City Public Libraries is superb. I was taken aback at the number of books it has. The library staff are consistently helpful and friendly.

The first time I went into a public library in years was last September and I couldn't believe all the audiobooks they had along with books. Documentaries, dvds - everything. You could be there forever. It's also good that we can now renew online rather than going back.

Libraries are greatly underused in Irish society.

Namlub

later10 wrote: »

Absolutely.

In pointing out that the libraries are mainly used by old age pensioners and young people, I'm making a point that, in my experience, they are generally only used by very identifiable cohorts of the population.

In the case of young people, as I said, the same function can be carried out by schools (which only open about 35 hours per week, less than most libraries; this could be amended).

With regards to study, the same function absolutely is not or could not be carried out by schools. Given the choice between spending hundreds of euro on a few hours per week of after school study, surrounded by dozens of my classmates with a five-minute toilet break, or going to library for free, undistracted and free to come and go as I please, I'd choose the latter. Of course the school's role could be amended, but it's highly unlikely that most teachers that most teachers would agree to work even more hours as supervisors, or that the school would charge less to make study more
accesible.

Just because you don't fit into the demographics you consider to use the library most doesn't mean libraries no longer serve a purpose or should be overhauled.

gigino

Libraries in many parts of the county get hardly any visitors. You can buy books very cheaply in secondhand bookshops, new bookshops or on amazon if u want to read. Its costing the taxpayer tens of millions a year to provide / heat / maintain public libraries, which practically nobody uses.

Scrap libraries + you could save the property tax twice over.;)

gigino

GarIT wrote: »

They should be centralised, some libraries are dead and should be closed or merged with others nearby. Theres needs to be some sort of a yearly and more expensive membership scheme so the libraries can sustain themselves. We have to pay more tax, more college fees and get less state benifits, but the people that use the library are uneffected.

well said. Increase membership fees to economical figures so they can sustain themselves .


like communist systems, public libraries are a thing of the past. They did not work. Keep 'em in universities though.

Capt'n Midnight

juan.kerr wrote: »

Johnny Foreigner wrote:

The African school children would have to go home after school to study as their parents work on the taxi rank.

Can we not send them back to africa? Kill two birds with one stone.

Send them back by taxi and kill three ...

Toby Take a Bow

gigino wrote: »

Its costing the taxpayer tens of millions a year to provide / heat / maintain public libraries, which practically nobody uses.

I must've missed the report detailing the figures of how many people per year use the library. Where abouts did you find it?

gigino wrote: »

like communist systems, public libraries are a thing of the past. They did not work. Keep 'em in universities though.

How did they not work? And if you want to keep them in universities, I guess they work in certain aspects, right?

Dudess

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

gigino wrote: »

Its costing the taxpayer tens of millions a year to provide / heat / maintain public libraries, which practically nobody uses.

I must've missed the report detailing the figures of how many people per year use the library. Where abouts did you find it?

gigino wrote: »

like communist systems, public libraries are a thing of the past. They did not work. Keep 'em in universities though.

How did they not work? And if you want to keep them in universities, I guess they work in certain aspects, right?

Just his usual anti public sector drivel.

That said, maybe those that are rarely used should be affiliated with libraries nearby?

Dionysus

gigino wrote: »

Its costing the taxpayer tens of millions a year to provide / heat / maintain public libraries, which practically nobody uses.

Scrap libraries

Oh Jesus. God Save Ireland.

44leto

Ballyfermot Library | Ballymun Library | Cabra Library | Central Library | Charleville Mall Library | Coolock Library | Dolphin's Barn Library | Donaghmede Library | Drumcondra Library | Dublin City Library & Archive | Finglas Library | Inchicore Library | Kevin Street Library | Marino Library | Mobile Libraries | Music Library | Pearse Street Library | Pembroke Library | Phibsboro' Library | Raheny Library | Rathmines Library |Ringsend Library | Terenure Library | Walkinstown Library

There are 23 public libraries in Dublin. I think, in this day and age, that is to many. I could see a time when they were a vital service. but now I think they need to change. Although I have read some great post in this thread arguing to retain the full service, I have yet to be convinced.