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Experienced Big 4 Salaries

  • 29-12-2011 8:14pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5


    Good day all -

    I am an KPMG auditor with four years of experience in the United States, and am a Certified Public Accountant (USA equivalent of Chartered Accountant.)

    I am considering applying for an 18-24 month rotation with KPMG in Dublin. I have been able to find a great deal on these boards about trainee salaries, however does anyone have insight into the salaries for someone with four years of experience and a Chartered Accountant?

    I currently earn $61,000 in the United States, and have read that Dublin cost of living is approximately 1.35 times that of where I live in the USA. Considering that is about what the USD-EUR exchange rate is right now, I would have to earn €61,000 to have an equal standard of living. Is that a reasonable expectation?

    Any insight is greatly appreciated.

    Cheers


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,633 ✭✭✭TheBody


    Hi there!! You could try sending your cv/resume to one of the MANY recuritment agencies in Dublin and see what they can do for you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭MrMatisse


    €45-48k per year really.

    Have a look at an income tax calculator and compare the two net incomes, depending on where you live in the U.S. this could make the difference better or worse.

    You might be able to get a position as a manager with that level of experience. €55k+ then


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭LightningBolt


    rtward wrote: »
    Good day all -

    I am an KPMG auditor with four years of experience in the United States, and am a Certified Public Accountant (USA equivalent of Chartered Accountant.)

    I am considering applying for an 18-24 month rotation with KPMG in Dublin. I have been able to find a great deal on these boards about trainee salaries, however does anyone have insight into the salaries for someone with four years of experience and a Chartered Accountant?

    I currently earn $61,000 in the United States, and have read that Dublin cost of living is approximately 1.35 times that of where I live in the USA. Considering that is about what the USD-EUR exchange rate is right now, I would have to earn €61,000 to have an equal standard of living. Is that a reasonable expectation?

    Any insight is greatly appreciated.

    Cheers

    I know people in another firm who come out of a 3/3.5 year trainee contract on 43k. You'd probably be looking at 46-47k tbh although I could be wrong.

    Where in the U.S are you based? You'd live comfortably on 46-47k per year here in Dublin, that would net off around 33k imo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 rtward


    I know people in another firm who come out of a 3/3.5 year trainee contract on 43k. You'd probably be looking at 46-47k tbh although I could be wrong.

    Where in the U.S are you based? You'd live comfortably on 46-47k per year here in Dublin, that would net off around 33k imo.

    Based in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Cost of living here is equal to the US average. Not sure if it has changed in the last few years, but I understood Dublin costs to be fairly comparable to New York City.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,498 ✭✭✭✭cson


    If you want them to be, they can be.

    Renting a 1 bed on your own would be between €700-€1100 depending on how nice you want it to be [also bear in mind that 90% of places come furnished over here as opposed to the situation back home for you]. Obviously if you're willing to share then you'll save a significant amount on rent.

    Roughly speaking you can use this as a guide;

    Pint Beer €4 [Standard]
    Rent €900 [Nice 1 bed in Ranelagh/Rathmines etc]
    3 Course Meal €25 [Early Bird in any number restaurants]
    Cable and Internet p/m €65 [UPC Starter]
    Monthly travel €118 [Luas Green Line Monthly]
    Groceries €60 [for one person, and this would be buying really good quality stuff, think Trader Joes. You could knock this down further if you really wanted]
    Gallon Fuel €7.50 [this will be *the* biggest shock for you if you do drive over here]
    Pair Levi's €90 [Debenhams]

    I know people will pick holes in my figures but in my experience they're broadly speaking correct. As with everything, you can do it cheaper or more expensive if you wanted but they are a good average imo.

    I believe you pay more taxes than us so a salary of €48k will be net €34k [$44k]. Bear in mind a couple of things though; by and large there is no tipping culture over here, the prices of our goods and services are tax inclusive [i.e. its not €10 plus 10% sales tax as is the case in most US States] , healthcare is free or else significantly cheaper than what it costs in the US if you go privately through your employer.

    If you've no loans/family to take of then €48k is seriously good money and you'd lead a really great life in Dublin for that. Also worth noting is that you're a €20-€50 flight from pretty much anywhere in Europe if you wanted to do a bit of weekend tripping during your secondment.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭LightningBolt


    cson wrote: »
    If you want them to be, they can be.

    Renting a 1 bed on your own would be between €700-€1100 depending on how nice you want it to be [also bear in mind that 90% of places come furnished over here as opposed to the situation back home for you]. Obviously if you're willing to share then you'll save a significant amount on rent.

    Roughly speaking you can use this as a guide;

    Pint Beer €4 [Standard]
    Rent €900 [Nice 1 bed in Ranelagh/Rathmines etc]
    3 Course Meal €25 [Early Bird in any number restaurants]
    Cable and Internet p/m €65 [UPC Starter]
    Monthly travel €118 More like 40-45 after tax cost [Luas Green Line Monthly]
    Groceries €60 [for one person, and this would be buying really good quality stuff, think Trader Joes. You could knock this down further if you really wanted]
    Gallon Fuel €7.50 No need for a car to be honest if you're staying on the green line. [this will be *the* biggest shock for you if you do drive over here]
    Pair Levi's €90 [Debenhams]

    I know people will pick holes in my figures but in my experience they're broadly speaking correct. As with everything, you can do it cheaper or more expensive if you wanted but they are a good average imo.

    I believe you pay more taxes than us so a salary of €48k will be net €34k [$44k]. Bear in mind a couple of things though; by and large there is no tipping culture over here, the prices of our goods and services are tax inclusive [i.e. its not €10 plus 10% sales tax as is the case in most US States] , healthcare is free or else significantly cheaper than what it costs in the US if you go privately through your employer.

    If you've no loans/family to take of then €48k is seriously good money and you'd lead a really great life in Dublin for that. Also worth noting is that you're a €20-€50 flight from pretty much anywhere in Europe if you wanted to do a bit of weekend tripping during your secondment.

    Pretty much most of what CSON is spot on and as s/he says, it can be done cheaper or more expensive depending on taste.

    We're nowhere near as expensive as New York when it comes to bars/nightclubs or accommodation and there's no tipping culture here unless you're in a restaurant where tips range from 10-15% depending on service. The quality of food to price paid is far greater in New York but to be fair there's so much competition there.

    You'll definitely live far more comfortably on €45-€48 gross over here than you would on $61k in NY.

    The other big thing you've to take into consideration is that in NY you'd be looking at a long commute into Manhattan unless you were willing to pay 1500 a room for shared accommodation there. 1 bed or shared accomodation in Ranalegh would be perfect. Short commute or if you want to save money a 15 minute walk max if you're near the canal or 25 mins max if in the village. You've got imo a better quality of life.

    * I know you don't live in N.Y but think it's important to point out that it's nowhere near as expensive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 rtward


    Pretty much most of what CSON is spot on and as s/he says, it can be done cheaper or more expensive depending on taste.

    We're nowhere near as expensive as New York when it comes to bars/nightclubs or accommodation and there's no tipping culture here unless you're in a restaurant where tips range from 10-15% depending on service. The quality of food to price paid is far greater in New York but to be fair there's so much competition there.

    You'll definitely live far more comfortably on €45-€48 gross over here than you would on $61k in NY.

    The other big thing you've to take into consideration is that in NY you'd be looking at a long commute into Manhattan unless you were willing to pay 1500 a room for shared accommodation there. 1 bed or shared accomodation in Ranalegh would be perfect. Short commute or if you want to save money a 15 minute walk max if you're near the canal or 25 mins max if in the village. You've got imo a better quality of life.

    * I know you don't live in N.Y but think it's important to point out that it's nowhere near as expensive.

    Gotcha.

    A couple of follow up questions for anyone who wants to weigh in.

    In Minnesota, I live in a neighborhood called Uptown (http://tiny.cc/43df2). It's the area of the city where young professionals tend to congregate, it's the second commercial district (outside of downtown), and has a high concentration of restaurants, bars, recreation, and other amenities desired by young people. So far, Rathmines and Ranelagh have been recommended as somewhere to live. Any other suggestions about where to live if I am looking for a vibe like I described above?

    Second, it looks like car ownership is expensive, and parking difficult. My company's offices are at 1 Stokes Place by St Stephen’s Green, but I would have to commute to my client's offices around Dublin as well as around the country. Is public transport in Dublin good enough that I would be able to get to most places around the area without a car? I can't find a decent public transport map, so I can't tell. Do people bicycle to work?
    In a pinch, I could take a taxi or hire a car, but it would be nice to avoid having to buy one.

    Thanks to all for your advice :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭LightningBolt


    rtward wrote: »
    Gotcha.

    A couple of follow up questions for anyone who wants to weigh in.

    In Minnesota, I live in a neighborhood called Uptown (http://tiny.cc/43df2). It's the area of the city where young professionals tend to congregate, it's the second commercial district (outside of downtown), and has a high concentration of restaurants, bars, recreation, and other amenities desired by young people. So far, Rathmines and Ranelagh have been recommended as somewhere to live. Any other suggestions about where to live if I am looking for a vibe like I described above?

    Second, it looks like car ownership is expensive, and parking difficult. My company's offices are at 1 Stokes Place by St Stephen’s Green, but I would have to commute to my client's offices around Dublin as well as around the country. Is public transport in Dublin good enough that I would be able to get to most places around the area without a car? I can't find a decent public transport map, so I can't tell. Do people bicycle to work?
    In a pinch, I could take a taxi or hire a car, but it would be nice to avoid having to buy one.

    Thanks to all for your advice :)

    City centre client sites you'd be fine with walking/using dublin bikes (costs 10eura year to use a bike for up to half an hour at any one time). You'll be working in non-fs at stokes place so you probably won't be in the office as much to be honest, you might be better off with a car if you're gonna be out of the office 90% of the time. If it were the case that you're out of the office and travelling outside of the city centre 75% of the time I'd be looking at living in Dundrum (10 mins away from Ranelagh/Rathmines maybe 15mins? someone can correct me on this) near a Luas stop so that you could get into town in 20mins max or be near the M50 to get around to client sites in Dublin/down the country. If you're working commuting daily I'd want to avoid Ranelagh/Rathmines with a car as the traffic isn't the greatest during rush hour.

    As for other areas you could consider Harolds Cross/Rathgar which would both be quite near Ranalegh/Rathmines and rents would be slightly cheaper although you'd have to commute by bus (I've no idea what they're like from that part of the city).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭MrMatisse


    If you are interested in working with financial services clients then you will be sent to their other Dublin office in Harbourmaster place in the Docklands, the financial district. All clients here are usually within walking distance or in Dublin city centre which is small.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 rtward


    MrMatisse wrote: »
    If you are interested in working with financial services clients then you will be sent to their other Dublin office in Harbourmaster place in the Docklands, the financial district. All clients here are usually within walking distance or in Dublin city centre which is small.

    Unfortunately won't be doing FS clients. My experience is with commercial/industrial clients, primarily light manufacturing, medical technology, as well as real estate, but don't want to focus on real estate. I like clients that actually make/do something.

    Minneapolis (where I am from) has a heavy focus on food manufacturers (General Mills, Cargill) so there is some talk of getting me some experience with food clients. At one point the partner in my office in Minneapolis had mentioned hoping I could do the Irish Dairy Board audit.

    No other idea of what my clients could be, but the director/vice-director of CIM-Audit sounded delighted with my eAudIT experience.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭MrMatisse


    Yep a lot of young newly qualified Irish accountants have left for Australia so they need experience.

    If your in CIM then you could be sent anywhere in the country, from small rural town for 1/2 months to an industrial estate in the middle of nowhere. Which can be a pain or a great experience


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 rtward


    MrMatisse wrote: »
    Yep a lot of young newly qualified Irish accountants have left for Australia so they need experience.

    If your in CIM then you could be sent anywhere in the country, from small rural town for 1/2 months to an industrial estate in the middle of nowhere. Which can be a pain or a great experience

    Why Australia?

    I'd have a hard time believing the working conditions are less desirable than here. Of my start group of 30, only 5 are currently left, to a large degree because of the hours we are expected to work. Maybe a better way to put it, any reason why I would not want to come to Dublin (recession and euro crisis aside)?

    I'd likely be fine with some time out in rural towns. One of the primary reasons I would like to do a secondment in Ireland is to experience living there and seeing the towns.

    If I end up going, I probably owe you and LightningBolt a pint for all the advice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 295 ✭✭tomfoolery60


    rtward wrote: »
    Why Australia?

    I'd have a hard time believing the working conditions are less desirable than here. Of my start group of 30, only 5 are currently left, to a large degree because of the hours we are expected to work. Maybe a better way to put it, any reason why I would not want to come to Dublin (recession and euro crisis aside)?

    Why Oz - It's a major culture in the Big4 in Ireland to qualify and then go travelling and Australia is a very popular place with Irish people in general now. They are also in need of bucket loads of accountants due to their own resource boom (and I imagine because Australians also like to travel when they qualify!)

    A lot of people also leave the Big4 because in Ireland (and largely the UK) the first step on a career in the Finance function of a company involves training in the Big 4, so a large amount never intend on a long term career in practice after qualification anyway.

    So no, if you are looking to continue in audit there's no particular reason to be wary of Dublin! As other posters have said Dublin has some big advantages in that on a qualified salary you can afford to live centrally and have a good standard of living as a young person without much in the way of commitments (more so that you would be able to do in say London but similar to perhaps Edinburgh, etc.). Furthermore most of the Big4 have time off in lieu for overtime, a great opportunity to see the rest of Europe while you are here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭MrMatisse


    Why Oz - It's a major culture in the Big4 in Ireland to qualify and then go travelling and Australia is a very popular place with Irish people in general now. They are also in need of bucket loads of accountants due to their own resource boom (and I imagine because Australians also like to travel when they qualify!)

    A lot of people also leave the Big4 because in Ireland (and largely the UK) the first step on a career in the Finance function of a company involves training in the Big 4, so a large amount never intend on a long term career in practice after qualification anyway.

    So no, if you are looking to continue in audit there's no particular reason to be wary of Dublin! As other posters have said Dublin has some big advantages in that on a qualified salary you can afford to live centrally and have a good standard of living as a young person without much in the way of commitments (more so that you would be able to do in say London but similar to perhaps Edinburgh, etc.). Furthermore most of the Big4 have time off in lieu for overtime, a great opportunity to see the rest of Europe while you are here.

    Great Post


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8 dlt1222


    Seeing as this is a pretty 'fresh' thread I wonder would you mind helping me out with my salary dilemma.

    I am trying to figure out what is the minimum\typical salary one you need to live, thrive and survive in Dublin.

    I have been offered a job in Dublin (Blanchardstown area) with a salary of 70k +\-. I am married with a small kid, Wife not working.

    So from http://www.virtualaccountant.ie/ I get a monthly net of €4,096.59

    For the sake of easy numbers let call it 4,000 net a month.

    I have done a few simple numbers to sum up my current situation. The numbers are quick and dirty to get a quick idea. I am less interested in the price of a beer or a sandwich in O'Briens. I simple need nice pretty round numbers. Below is what I com up with. While they are approximate I don't think they are too far off.

    IN p\m €4,000

    My p\m expenses would be:

    OUT - €1000 for rent 2-3 bed in a place like Maynooth
    OUT - €1000 for creche.
    OUT - €300 for Car 1
    OUT - €200 for car 2
    OUT - €400 monthly food etc
    OUT - €200 bills, utilities
    OUT - €200 Petrol, diesel, bus, etc
    Total OUT = €3,300

    I am presuming my expenses will go up and down ans the months vary.
    Also I can probably get a cheap 2nd hand car. Instead of 2 new cars. But for the sake of argument I'll keep it straight forward.

    What do these numbers look like?
    Is it conceivable that after €70,000 p\a I am left with €700net per month?
    I also have not included medical for a family of three. Car insurance, maybe even a holiday...:)

    TIA...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 574 ✭✭✭ste


    dlt1222 wrote: »
    Seeing as this is a pretty 'fresh' thread I wonder would you mind helping me out with my salary dilemma.

    I am trying to figure out what is the minimum\typical salary one you need to live, thrive and survive in Dublin.

    I have been offered a job in Dublin (Blanchardstown area) with a salary of 70k +\-. I am married with a small kid, Wife not working.

    So from http://www.virtualaccountant.ie/ I get a monthly net of €4,096.59

    For the sake of easy numbers let call it 4,000 net a month.

    I have done a few simple numbers to sum up my current situation. The numbers are quick and dirty to get a quick idea. I am less interested in the price of a beer or a sandwich in O'Briens. I simple need nice pretty round numbers. Below is what I com up with. While they are approximate I don't think they are too far off.

    IN p\m €4,000

    My p\m expenses would be:

    OUT - €1000 for rent 2-3 bed in a place like Maynooth
    OUT - €1000 for creche.
    OUT - €300 for Car 1
    OUT - €200 for car 2
    OUT - €400 monthly food etc
    OUT - €200 bills, utilities
    OUT - €200 Petrol, diesel, bus, etc
    Total OUT = €3,300

    I am presuming my expenses will go up and down ans the months vary.
    Also I can probably get a cheap 2nd hand car. Instead of 2 new cars. But for the sake of argument I'll keep it straight forward.

    What do these numbers look like?
    Is it conceivable that after €70,000 p\a I am left with €700net per month?
    I also have not included medical for a family of three. Car insurance, maybe even a holiday...:)

    TIA...

    OUT - €300 for Car 1
    OUT - €200 for car 2


    First thought was these costs are high. But I'm guessing they include loan repayments?
    In which case they may be representative.

    OUT - €200 Petrol, diesel, bus, etc

    So many variables behind this. It could be twice this number or half. For me it might be conservative.
    [conservative in my opinion]


    OUT - €400 monthly food etc


    If you manage this, fair play! Absolutely do-able but this is a weekly shop of circa €100 - and excludes any extra purchases? Lunches, dinners, coffees?

    [conservative in my opinion]

    OUT - €200 bills, utilities

    Basic enough UPC internet/tv package is 60/70, then add your Gas/Elec/Bins/Water/TV license/oil/etc.

    [conservative in my opinion]

    OUT - €1000 for creche.


    I have no idea of cost


    Entertainment and living costs


    This has the ability to demolish your above forecast.
    Eating out, coffee/tea, drinking out, taxis, gifts, weekends away, etc.


    Other

    Health insurance may be a considerable cost depending on what cover you want. It could be €2k p/a for the family - now I know some people may say that's OTT, but it's in line with what I pay.
    + 2k



    My overall opinion: Everything (and life) usually ends up costing more than you expect. A month where you have to service the car or the TV goes on you, or you've to go to wedding.
    70 +/- for your family unit may actually involve much more budgeting restraint and monitoring than you may expect.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8 dlt1222


    Excellent reply.

    Looks like 70k slips though your fingers pretty quickly on the rocky road to Dublin....

    - I have inserted a €100 to anywhere you have said [conservative]
    - Monthly medical insurance
    - Car = minimal figure for monthly repayment on a new car or loan up to 20k
    - Lets presume i never socialize, never go on holidays or get invited to weddings.... ;)

    New Numbers looks like this:

    IN p\m €4,000

    p\m expense.

    OUT - €1000 for rent 2-3 bed in a place like Maynooth
    OUT - €1000 for creche.
    OUT - €300 for Car 1
    OUT - €200 for car 2
    OUT - €500 montly food etc
    OUT - €300 bills, utilities
    OUT - €400 Petrol, diesel, bus, tolls
    OUT - €200 Medical insurance for family of 3 + monthly visit to GP

    OUT total = €3900.

    Leaving me with a grand total of less than €100 p\m.

    Am I being to harsh with these numbers? Is there anyone living on similar in similr situation?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,498 ✭✭✭✭cson


    What stands out from the above for me is that you'd save €1000 p/m if your wife took care of the child rather than paying for a creche? I don't know your situation but either way if she's looking for work could she mind the child in the interim/if she gets work then your bills become more manageable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8 dlt1222


    I'm pretty sure we will need to be the standard 2 parent-working & kid parked in Creche.
    Perhaps move further to places like Maynooth, Kilcock etc, where rent and services a mite cheaper.

    Still by all accounts I am being told that a family of 3 in Dublin needs a combine income of at least 80-100k to be comfortable.

    Thanks for all the valuable input.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭Glenbhoy


    Creche fees for one kid in Maynooth direction are probably about €800 a month max. As someone else stated, if your wife is not working why do you need a creche? Yes, it might be a nice luxury, but not when things are that tight.

    A better idea may be a childminder, they are much more flexible and in my experience, if the childminder is good can be a much more rewarding experience for the child than a creche.
    I currently pay a childminder €60 per day for two kids. For one kid the standard is about €6/7 per hour. The flexibility is a huge advantage, in your circumstances, some part time solution would seem to make sense.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭freeze4real


    wow 70000= fantastic, you must have loads of experience in your profession.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8 dlt1222


    on paper it would seem to ..but it all doesnt match up to the 'minimum' viable salary in Dublin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,498 ✭✭✭✭cson


    It's €55,000 equiv but you've to factor in that you pay more tax in the US afaik in addition to the fact that you have to pay for healthcare and if you ever intend sending an offspring to 3rd level you'd want to consider saving upwards of 10% of that each year from the time they're born.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 318 ✭✭The___________


    cson wrote: »
    It's €55,000 equiv but you've to factor in that you pay more tax in the US afaik in addition to the fact that you have to pay for healthcare and if you ever intend sending an offspring to 3rd level you'd want to consider saving upwards of 10% of that each year from the time they're born.

    Fees for third level education will be back within the next few years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,498 ✭✭✭✭cson


    Fees for third level education will be back within the next few years.

    To the extent that are in place in the US? I seriously doubt it. ;)


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