Storage heater Question

Diggerdunne

Was lookin at a mates fuseboard the other day who has storage heaters. He has 3 mb's feedin into the contacts of the contactor and then the storage heaters fed from the otherside of the contactor. I get the part that the control cable on a 6amp breaker feeds the timeclock or coil and then the return cable energises the contactor at 11 or 12. What i was wondering is the 3 mcbs that go to the contactor and then onto the heaters are they fed from normal supply as they had power coming out of them? If thats the case then how does nite tarrif kick in? Is the whole board a nite tarriff?

Cheers for any answers....

beanie10

Them 3 mcb are on the main busbar so power will always be leaving them. The esb time clock sends the signal to the contactor which then closes its contacts sending power to the storage heaters. It appears in this situation the night tariff meter is recording all electricity used at night not just storage heaters. The older way of doing it was to feed the storage heaters mcbs directly off the esb time clock which was powered by a night tariff meter thus only recording storage heater usage.

Diggerdunne

Makes sense... Cheers for that

Diggerdunne

the storage heater thermostat went the other week and so we changed it out and all was fine.The the last 2 days the heater did not come on.Its in a kitchen come dinning area and there is another heater there and it works fine. So i went up today and gave power to the contactor and heater worked. All other heaters in house work. Am goin back 2n at 12 to make sure nite saver power goin to the heater. Am i missin anythin. Can the other heater in the room which is bigger influence the smaller heater?
Cheers...

Bruthal

Diggerdunne wrote: »

the storage heater thermostat went the other week and so we changed it out and all was fine.The the last 2 days the heater did not come on.Its in a kitchen come dinning area and there is another heater there and it works fine. So i went up today and gave power to the contactor and heater worked. All other heaters in house work. Am goin back 2n at 12 to make sure nite saver power goin to the heater. Am i missin anythin. Can the other heater in the room which is bigger influence the smaller heater?
Cheers...

You could of tested if power was going to the heater in question without waiting until tonight. Just energise the contactor temporarilly to see.

Diggerdunne

robbie i did give the contactor temp power today and the heater did work....
Any other ideas?

meercat

there is a high limit stat built into the heater which may have tripped out
you need to remove the cover and manually reset it
its a bi-metallic strip ,which when pressed will click


lifted from the net
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l256/rjn1976/IMG_0713.jpg

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/do-yourself-diy-electrical-forum-electrics/18100-storage-heater-thermostat-reset-query.html

Diggerdunne

thanx meercat will have a look later....The fact that i had the heater working with temp power earlier would that suggest that its not tripped out....Can they reset themselves?...

Cheers...

meercat

when you say it was working,what was?
was it just the neon light on the wall switch
best way to test is ,
temporarily bridge out contactor at board
open panel on storage heater
check incoming supply
put test lamps on element connector blocks(looking for 230v:D)
if no power at element then check hi-limit stat


the hi-limit has to be pressed to reset

careful with that live power now!!!!!

Diggerdunne

the heater was working... I took the link out of the contactor from the devi and put a temp cable into the contactor and the heater started to heat up.Had power at the main terminals and across the thermostat and at the heater elements....The problem is that its just stopped these last 2 days after i changed the faulty thermostat, so want to check 2n that it defo gettin power after 12 to rule that out...

beanie10

Are you living in the house or is it rented? I find a lot of the problems in rented situations is that the tennant turns the isolating switch off not fully understanding how storage heating is meant to work.
As meercat said check the hi-limit stat. You could do this with power off by checking for continuity each side of the metal strip. after that remove the elements and check resistance.

Diggerdunne

It's a mates house that's rented....went up again today and by passed the contactor and power was not at the heater... Took the switch off the wall and power to heater... Put it back on the wall and power dropped... So seems an intermittent fault with the switch. So changed it and have fingers crossed...

meercat

Diggerdunne wrote: »

It's a mates house that's rented....went up again today and by passed the contactor and power was not at the heater... Took the switch off the wall and power to heater... Put it back on the wall and power dropped... So seems an intermittent fault with the switch. So changed it and have fingers crossed...

have replaced those 20a double pole switches numerous times
they have a tendency to burn out internally
you may have noticed scorch(heat) marks on the conductors
best to cut back and remake if possible

Diggerdunne

There were no scorch marks on the cable, it looked brand new... Just an intermittent switch hopefully....

2011

Diggerdunne wrote: »

the storage heater thermostat went the other week and so we changed it out and all was fine.

Is this a room stat mounted on the wall that controls the contactor for all of storage heaters? It soundless like it is to me as you say "So i went up today and gave power to the contactor and heater worked". I take it you are referring to the contractor in the distribution board ??

To me this implies that the room stat is either connected incorrectly or it is faulty. Remember, if the stat is set to 20DegC and the room is at a lower temperature the stat should be in the closed position providing power to the storage heater contractor.

All other heaters in house work.

Are they storage heaters? If so they may be the combo type that have both nigh saver and normal day rate supplies.

Diggerdunne

They are just nite storage heaters. There is no stat in the room. There is a stat outside connected to the Devi 710. The heater worked when I gave power to the contactor intermittently which wud explain y it was not heating... The switch on the wall seems to be faulty and have swapped it out and hoping that solves it once and 4 all...

Jboy1985

Hi I'm having trouble with my storage heating just moved into a new apartment and the storage heating doesn't work, when I put on the 20amp double pole switches to save the electricity there coming on during the day the light is on them and I checked and there's 230 v going to them, so I checked the fuse board and it has this Devi 710-2 on it so I have researched them and found they have a outdoor sensor so I found that and a resistor is broke in it , does this mean that it is letting the electricity to flow all the time or is it a problem with the esb time clock?the Devi reg seems to be connected to a contactor with just 2 cables inthe contactor one going from a1 to the Devi reg terminal 5(neutral)and from a2 one going up to terminal 4 with a link wire to terminal 2 then don't know what is going on am I been charged all the time for the storage heating????

Delta Lima

Jboy1985 wrote: »

Hi I'm having trouble with my storage heating ................am I been charged all the time for the storage heating????

Hello Jboy and welcome to Boards.

I would suggest, that if you have a landlord, that you should raise your concerns about the storage heater to him or her.

It shouldn't be coming on during the day. It could be that the ESB time clock for the night rate has gone far out of sync., and is on completely the wrong time.
If this is the case, it could just bring on the heater at the wrong time of the day. Have you checked if there is power at the heater at various times of the day? It should only be on for 9 hrs a day.

Its not a disaster if this is the case, as you should still be charged at the night rate for the period the heater is powered.

As 2011 said above, some storage heaters, known as combies, have another heating element that will heat instantly , and can normally be switched on during the day. If this is the case, there should be 2 supplies going to the storage heater, with 2 isolating switches nearby.
One supply will be for the night time storage heater elements, and the 2nd will be this instant heater for a more immediate control during the day. This element would be on a day time dearer electricity rate.

Jboy1985

Hi thanks for the reply ya I checked the esb timeclock and its only a hour out of sync so I dnt think it would make to much of a difference only one of the 3 storage heaters are combi it seems to me to be badly wired I'm at a loss with it I wonder can you bypass the Devi reg and just use the contactor and see if that's the problem as the outside sensor is broke and they dnt make them any more I believe?

Delta Lima

I don't think that by-passing the Devi is the answer, as the time clock shouldn't allow the contactor to come on during the day in any case.

But I'm not that familiar with the Devi setup so I could be wrong, and it all depends on how it's wired. I found this link, if it is of any use to you. :-

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055558356/3

There's a bit of drama near the end of it. lol

and this :-

http://neighbours.ie/forums/showthread.php?66792-storage-heater-controls

I would imagine that somebody here could recommend a replacement sensor for you ...........
It's an Outdoor sensor NTC 15 kOhm at 25°C, according to the manual.

At least its not too cold out atm, but now's the time to get it sorted.

Delta Lima

Maybe this would work as a replacement probe if you are sure it is broken :-

http://ie.rs-online.com/web/p/temperature-probes/7983432/