How to release air from a plumbing system in 3 storey house

david4791

Hi,
I have a three storey house with some rads not working on first floor and one rad on ground floor, the same rads are problematic every time.

A plumber has been several times and stated I should turn on heat and close valve in hot press, I should then turn off all rads that are working from third floor downwards to rads not working as it will flush through air, eventually working to ground floor rads.

Thereafter, Bleeds rads from rads to rad to release air. Finally turn valve back on in hot press.

I have tried this today but still have a rad not working, am I missing something?

aujopimur

If you have this problem on a regular basis you either have a leak or your system is pitching, you should consider changing your plumber as he does'nt appear to be able to solve the problem.

david4791

Are you a plumber?

Any advice if so

JMSE

shouldnt the pump and heating be off when bleeding?

aujopimur

I'm a retired plumber,
Is your system open, ie expansion tank in the attic?,is there water in it?,
If you have an exp. tank, tie up the ballvalve for 24hrs, if the water level drops you have a leak.
When the heating is on check to see if hot water is coming up thru' the exp. pipe into the exp. tank, this would indicate pitching and and would be the source of air in the system.
As you have a 3 storey house, poor circulation could be caused by an incorrect pump, a high head pump should be fitted.
I would also balance the system, open all the wheelhead rad valves (large caps) fully, remove the caps from the lockshields (small caps) use a pliers to close them fully, then open each 1/2 turn,do the same to the valve on the hot water cylinder.
Switch on the heating, check each rad for heat, on any that are slow to heat open the lockshield a littlle bit more it may take a bit of tweaking to get it right.

david4791

It's a closed system.

aujopimur

Is it losing pressure?.

david4791

No

aujopimur

If it's not losing pressure why do you need to bleed/vent ?
Make sure the pump is at high speed to ensure good circulation.

Joey the lips

david4791 wrote: »

Hi,
I have a three storey house with some rads not working on first floor and one rad on ground floor, the same rads are problematic every time.

A plumber has been several times and stated I should turn on heat and close valve in hot press, I should then turn off all rads that are working from third floor downwards to rads not working as it will flush through air, eventually working to ground floor rads.

Thereafter, Bleeds rads from rads to rad to release air. Finally turn valve back on in hot press.

I have tried this today but still have a rad not working, am I missing something?

What your plumber said in the first paragraph can be simplafied. Simply turn off all the rads by there nobs or thermostats and give the rad priority with the air in it. When cleared move on to the next one doing the same

aujopimur wrote: »

If you have this problem on a regular basis you either have a leak or your system is pitching, you should consider changing your plumber as he does'nt appear to be able to solve the problem.

This is actually a true point. It might not be said the way you like it but its true.

david4791 wrote: »

Are you a plumber?

Any advice if so

Based on that fact this is unnecessary and will not generate answers for you.

mad m

Just a bit OT, but your circulating pump has three settings on it, look to see if its on the highest setting (3).....

andy2die4

aujopimur wrote: »

Balance the system.

Do this and all your problems are over.

david4791

I'll try it, where do I locate it?

Joey the lips

mad m wrote: »

Just a bit OT, but your circulating pump has three settings on it, look to see if its on the highest setting (3).....

I dont agree. this would only be necessary if the top rooms were not heating and everywhere else was.

But we dont know if the boiler is on the ground floor or second floor and we dont know if its oil or gas or the type of boiler. Most gas boilers have the pumps built into them and should not be touched.

Then again....

heinbloed

It's a closed system, Joey the lips. So it doesn't matter where the boiler is, ground floor or first floor.
The advise from Andy2die4 to check the pump's pumping force first of all (after seing the pressure in the system is suitable) is therefore correct.

The OP claims to be a civil engineer, b.t.w. ......

david4791

Yes Heinbloed, your correct, civil engineers are not ofee with plumbing systems, we design and build everything bar houses.

The boiler is on ground floor and gas fired, all rads on top floor are perfect.

DoneDL

david4791 bleed the system when its cold, if you can then run the pump without the boiler on to push any air out. If there is Qualpex or plastic pipework make sure it`s clipped properly about every 300 mm and level or rising slightly.

Joey the lips

heinbloed wrote: »

It's a closed system, Joey the lips. So it doesn't matter where the boiler is, ground floor or first floor.
The advise from Andy2die4 to check the pump's pumping force first of all (after seing the pressure in the system is suitable) is therefore correct.

The OP claims to be a civil engineer, b.t.w. ......

You cause a lot of confusion and dont seem to see it. Your advocating he tackle the pump not knowing if its gas or not at this stage. Not knowing if the pump is contained in the boiler or not which as we progress it seems it might be. If this proves to be the case it will be illegal for a heating engineer to touch who is not gas registered.

But i guarantee you also know that running a pump in its 3rd speed should also not be done. It means the pump is over performing and is not rec by manufacturers but carry on.

david4791

Donedl, with all due respect, how the he'll can I check qualpex is clipped every 300mm? It's not as first fix stage. It's a finished build 10 years old.

heinbloed

Joey the lips wrote:

You cause a lot of confusion and dont seem to see it. Your advocating he tackle the pump not knowing if its gas or not at this stage. Not knowing if the pump is contained in the boiler or not which as we progress it seems it might be. If this proves to be the case it will be illegal for a heating engineer to touch who is not gas registered.

This is not correct what you're stating, Joey the lips.
Modern boilers have a manual acompanying the boiler showing the consumer how to adjust the capacity of the pump. This is called the 'owner manual' or 'operator's manual'.
This manual change of the pump's capacity is necessary to run the boiler efficiently. The fewer radiators are to be supplied seasonaly the less the pump has to work. Seasonal adjustment.
Modern pumps are self adjusting.....

If a civil engineer who is working on public sewers (ast the OP claims) can't find the pump of a home heating boiler then the plumbing and heating forum won't help any further.
Civil engineers working for tax payer's money do not rely on information gained from anonymous sources. Hopefully.

DoneDL

david4791, sorry but I was assuming it was a wooden floor.

heinbloed

heinbloed wrote: »

Joey the lips wrote:



This is not correct what you're stating, Joey the lips.
Modern boilers have a manual acompanying the boiler showing the consumer how to adjust the capacity of the pump. This is called the 'owner manual' or 'operator's manual'.
This manual change of the pump's capacity is necessary to run the boiler efficiently. The fewer radiators are to be supplied seasonaly the less the pump has to work. Seasonal adjustment.
Modern pumps are self adjusting.....

If a civil engineer who is working on public sewers (ast the OP claims) can't find the pump of a home heating boiler then the plumbing and heating forum won't help any further.
Civil engineers working for tax payer's money do not rely on information gained from anonymous sources. Hopefully.

Your spot on Joey, Heinbload your out of your depth again;)