Investment in Art - how to ..

makeorbrake

Hi. I just wondered if anyone could point me in the right direction as regards investing in art? Is it possible for someone who has no knowledge or expertise whatsoever in this area to develop a method of doing this without major $ risk?

Any forums out there specifically aimed at this? Been trying to find one - but unsuccessful so far.

soddy1979

My knowledge of investing in art is pretty low. Like almost non-existent.

However, if your knowledge is as low as you say it is, to reduce the risk that you blow all of your money, the best advice I can give you is this:

1) Don't put your money into investments you don't understand.
2) read up on art to become very well versed on the topic.
3) invest in an art fund.

Only when you consider yourself to be an expert, would I think about purchasing individual pieces of art for investment purposes.

makeorbrake

@soddy1979 : Thanks for your post.

soddy1979 wrote:

1) Don't put your money into investments you don't understand.

Agree completely - and on that basis, I posted here (among spending hours searching for how I could do this safely.

soddy1979 wrote:

2) read up on art to become very well versed on the topic.

I guess I want to do this - but I guess when starting from baseline (i.e. no knowledge), it will take quite some time to get up to speed.

soddy1979 wrote:

3) invest in an art fund.

For reasons that I won't go into here - that's not going to be an option for me.


My basic (very, very basic) understanding of it thus far is as follows;

1. Can go for 'up and coming' artists - which could (potentially) offer the greatest return. However, on the flip side, they are very much the riskier option.
2. Go for established artists - but expect to pay considerably more.


Is there a shortlist somewhere on the www of what could be deemed as established artists? i.e. ones that would represent a conservative buy (in terms of financial risk).

Jim2007

makeorbrake wrote: »

Is there a shortlist somewhere on the www of what could be deemed as established artists? i.e. ones that would represent a conservative buy (in terms of financial risk).

It is never a good idea to invest in an asset who's value is determined by greed, fear or perception.

Many European banks and investment houses have opened departments in this area in the past and closed them down at a loss. And it is not surprising because no one can account for the public's taste over time.

Using tried and trusted methods of asset allocation and diversification are your best tools to reduce financial risk.

o1s1n

makeorbrake wrote: »

Is it possible for someone who has no knowledge or expertise whatsoever in this area to develop a method of doing this without major $ risk?.

Short answer - no.

The only way to make money from something like this is by developing your knowledge and expertise. No knowledge and expertise means no money. It's how it works.

I've made quite a sum from buying and selling animation cels for example. How? By spending hours pouring over internet forums and finding out what was worth money and what wasn't.

Expand your knowledge, look at what people are buying and work out (with your knowledge and expertise) what will make you money.

makeorbrake

Thanks to you both for your input.


I hear what your saying and understand where your coming from. Without going into greater detail, I guess I am not looking to make major % gains - simply hold value in line with inflation. Could this be done if I followed the works of artists who have already established themselves?

o1s1n

Are you interested in art itself? Or just looking for an investment?

To be honest, it's more of a hobby investment. In that you're buying a painting you love - with the knowledge it'll go up or at least retain its value. If you've no real interest in art then there are probably better things you can invest in.

As for up and coming artists - In my final year show back in college, banks came in and bought up some pieces they liked to put in vaults as an investment in case the graduates became famous.

The actual percentage of those pieces which gained in value? Very low I would imagine.

If you're looking for money to retain it's value, then I'd imagine buying work by old well known masters would be the way to go. Things which will never fall in value. Only problem with that though is you'll be spending a lot.

Plus they're hard to come by too. I know someone who has pieces by Dali, Rembrandt and Manet, but only managed to buy them at a good price as they came up by chance in a small auction house.

david75

www.expressobeans.com

Site dealing with silk screened posters and other formats. Good place to start.

stackerman

makeorbrake wrote: »

Is it possible for someone who has no knowledge or expertise whatsoever in this area to develop a method of doing this without major $ risk?r.

May as well just put it on a nag in Paddys house.

From that I mean, if you don't know what your doing, your just taking a punt . . .

Broad

I would say don't invest in art unless you love your investment. The closest thing you will perhaps get to a really secure investment is to buy a work by someone like Louis le Brocquy, well established fabulous Irish artist and still living at 95 years old, but there are still absolutely no guarantees.

If you want to get acquainted with modern Irish art that may attain value, if you go to the website of Whyte's Auctioneers they are selling a limited edition book for €75 which looks at living Irish artists and their works, it is a beautiful book called "Dictionary of Living Irish Artists" which is a collector's item in its own right. Plus there is also available a book called "A Buyer's Guide to Irish Art" produced in association with Adam's auctioneers which gives prices gained for artworks and it is also a nice book with plenty of prints. A few weeks spent cross-referencing these two books plus time spent looking in galleries and auctions will give you an idea. I only know these books because I bought them for my husband for Christmas and I cannot get a moment's attention from him, he is loving going through them so much.

My folks bought some nice paintings back in the seventies for £50-£100 which are now worth €3000-€6000. Those paintings became part of the house and our growing up, they were bought because they were really liked and their value gain has become a bonus. I wouldn't buy art as just an investment. I wouldn't buy anything you don't want to look at each and every day.

makeorbrake

o1s1n wrote: »

Are you interested in art itself? Or just looking for an investment? To be honest, it's more of a hobby investment. In that you're buying a painting you love - with the knowledge it'll go up or at least retain its value.

I guess I have a passing interest - but no in-depth interest.

o1s1n wrote: »

As for up and coming artists - In my final year show back in college, banks came in and bought up some pieces they liked to put in vaults as an investment in case the graduates became famous.

Ok, then - let's leave 'up and coming' out of the equation.

o1s1n wrote: »

If you're looking for money to retain it's value, then I'd imagine buying work by old well known masters would be the way to go. Things which will never fall in value. Only problem with that though is you'll be spending a lot.

Is there a middleground? I am looking at buying one every two months in 2012 - to the value of €4-7K (don't ask - it's just the way thing's are financially on this end - that would make the ideal way of approaching it).

o1s1n wrote: »

Plus they're hard to come by too. I know someone who has pieces by Dali, Rembrandt and Manet, but only managed to buy them at a good price as they came up by chance in a small auction house.

I've come across pieces by a couple of irish artists - who are well established. While they have pieces that are worth considerably more - they have some that fit into my pricerange (and in tandem with that, they are pieces that I personally find attractive).

keving wrote:

May as well just put it on a nag in Paddys house.

Is it really that bad?

Broad wrote:

If you want to get acquainted with modern Irish art that may attain value, if you go to the website of Whyte's Auctioneers they are selling a limited edition book for €75 which looks at living Irish artists and their works, it is a beautiful book called "Dictionary of Living Irish Artists" which is a collector's item in its own right. Plus there is also available a book called "A Buyer's Guide to Irish Art" produced in association with Adam's auctioneers which gives prices gained for artworks and it is also a nice book with plenty of prints. A few weeks spent cross-referencing these two books plus time spent looking in galleries and auctions will give you an idea.

Hi Broad - sounds like a very good starting point.

stackerman

makeorbrake wrote: »

Is it really that bad?

Let me put it this way. I've a relative who has been 'into' art for a long time, just loves it and has years and years of acquired knowledge. Walk around the house and you'll see all sorts of stuff, a lot worth a fortune, but all picked up when the artist was starting off. A good, or great eye, is what you need. Can you learn/teach that in a short time frame ? I don't think so. So anything outside of real knowledge is a punt, but if you like it . . Does it matter ?

I bought a few bits myself over the years, all of which I like, but only 1 would be worth a lot more now. Still, I can enjoy them all on a daily basis.

makeorbrake

keving wrote: »

So anything outside of real knowledge is a punt, but if you like it . . Does it matter ? I bought a few bits myself over the years, all of which I like, but only 1 would be worth a lot more now. Still, I can enjoy them all on a daily basis.

Well, I suppose that I should clarify that this would by no means represent my entire strategy in relation to saving. This would be peripheral. However, circumstances (it's convoluted - so I'm not going to explain it away here) have lead to this being a possible option. My home is devoid of any art whatsoever - it's a blank canvas (pardon the pun) - and I don't think it would be any harm to utilise this opportunity to dress it up a little.


In tandem with the set of circumstances, the benefit of having a few pieces in my home - I guess I wanted to make sure that I didn't make a complete idiot of myself. I am happy to retain value by way of sticking with inflationary rate. If I go above this - then that's just cream (and of course that would only be cream should I ever decide to sell).


Taking one example (and this is only an example - should anyone with a vested interest be reading!) - this has taken my eye. The research I have done into the artist suggests he is well established - perhaps not at the top end of the scale - but established nonetheless.

Would such a purchase be a 'punt'?

(again, I'm purely taking that as an example to see what folks views are).