TYRES FAIL NCT TEST - OUT OF DATE

kincaid

A friend of mine got 2 good part worn bridgestone tyres on his car had 80% thread left on them and were E marked but were both failed on NCT test due to being out of date,
Anyone heard of this before

Yep, there's a max age on them, 5 or 6 years, the crowd who sold them may sort him out.

drunkmonkey

Never heard of it but it does make sense as rubber does perish over time.

kincaid

yes they are 6 years old

MarkR

Not something I thought they checked, but fair play. Hard luck on your buddy, but we don't want dangerous tyres around the place.

paddydriver

Looked at NCT manual and it says following on this:

The owner should be advised of any tyre with a tread depth of less than 3mm or, where the date of manufacture is obvious on the tyre (Item 7 on the tyre illustration in Section 37), a tyre older than six years.

Then later says thread depth below 1.6mm is a fail. According to this then you shouldnt be failed because tyres are over 6 years old - just be advised.

I have an NCT in early 2012 and my tyres are over 6 years old and would be challenging this. I had tyres in shed on a spare set of 17's and asked 2 x tyre fitters if they would be OK and both said fine - this when they had opportunity to try sell me new tyres by selling me a yarn.

kincaid

the tyre thread which was over 80% and were E marked. BUT He has to get them replaced
OK is it something the insurance company would check if an accident happened.
say for example you purchased the car and these were already on it and neither you or the seller knew about this as i certainly didnt till few days ago..

What would happen???

Atlantic Dawn

kincaid wrote: »

What would happen???

It's your only contact with the road, I wouldn't drive around in a car where I had doubts about the tyres, a blowout could be instant death on a motorway.

slimjimmc

kincaid wrote: »

the tyre thread which was over 80% and were E marked. BUT He has to get them replaced
OK is it something the insurance company would check if an accident happened.
say for example you purchased the car and these were already on it and neither you or the seller knew about this as i certainly didnt till few days ago..

What would happen???

How can he be required to replace them simply because of their age alone? Age is not an NCT failure, but there may be other defects which causes a failure.
Tyres degrade over time and can develop hidden internal defects which is why the NCT advise owners that the tyres should be replaced. It's very prudent to follow that advice but it's not mandatory. Replace them anyway.

The most important thing is the condition and performance of the tyre regardless of age. If the tyre failed then the insurer will certainly take that into account.

washman3

paddydriver wrote: »

Looked at NCT manual and it says following on this:

The owner should be advised of any tyre with a tread depth of less than 3mm or, where the date of manufacture is obvious on the tyre (Item 7 on the tyre illustration in Section 37), a tyre older than six years.

Then later says thread depth below 1.6mm is a fail. According to this then you shouldnt be failed because tyres are over 6 years old - just be advised.

I have an NCT in early 2012 and my tyres are over 6 years old and would be challenging this. I had tyres in shed on a spare set of 17's and asked 2 x tyre fitters if they would be OK and both said fine - this when they had opportunity to try sell me new tyres by selling me a yarn.

would agree with you that this case should be just a fail/advisory.
makes no sense that a tyre with correct markings, 80% thread,no obvious cracks or signs of perishing and no signs of damage due to pot-hole or footpath strikes, should fail an NCT because they are over 6 yrs old.
another case of a nanny state gone mad.
it would be a different case entirely if these tyres were 16yrs old rather than 6. surely discretion and common sense must apply.
I would be very interested in how your NCT goes in January??

kincaid

yes but the 2 tyres HAVE to be replaced before going back in.
its written on the report sheet and will not get cert until done.
he would have got it that very day only for this as no other faults as he get his mechanic to check it over beforehand.
they are both very good bridgestone tyres with no cuts etc on them.
these are a great tyre and its a pity he will have to take them off, loads of thread left and will still last longer than a new cheaper budget tyre.

the only reason they are being failed is due to being out of date he stated - no other reason..bit of a joke really

slimjimmc

washman3 wrote: »

would agree with you that this case should be just a fail/advisory.
makes no sense that a tyre with correct markings, 80% thread,no obvious cracks or signs of perishing and no signs of damage due to pot-hole or footpath strikes, should fail an NCT because they are over 6 yrs old.
another case of a nanny state gone mad.
it would be a different case entirely if these tyres were 16yrs old rather than 6. surely discretion and common sense must apply.
I would be very interested in how your NCT goes in January??

LOL. There is no rule which enables an NCT failure based purely on tyre age so how could it be a nanny state gone mad :rolleyes: . Either an individual tester messed up or the OP's mate has misinterpreted the advice he was given and took it as a failure. It's only advice, but it's good advice.

George Dalton

kincaid wrote: »

the only reason they are being failed is due to being out of date he stated - no other reason..bit of a joke really

Have you got the report sheet? I see NCT report sheets every day and I have never seen a fail refusal based on tyre age, only a fail advisory as stated above by a few other posters.

slimjimmc

kincaid wrote: »

yes but the 2 tyres HAVE to be replaced before going back in.
its written on the report sheet and will not get cert until done.
he would have got it that very day only for this as no other faults as he get his mechanic to check it over beforehand.
they are both very good bridgestone tyres with no cuts etc on them.
these are a great tyre and its a pity he will have to take them off, loads of thread left and will still last longer than a new cheaper budget tyre.

the only reason they are being failed is due to being out of date he stated - no other reason..bit of a joke really

He can appeal the decision as it has is no basis in law and is contrary to the NCT test criteria if the certificate states a FAIL because of tyre age (it should actually be a PASS Advisory)

However, while a tyre may appear good on the outside it can deteriorate internally. That is why he is advised to change them.

Dilbert75

Obviously the rule is being incorrectly applied - I'd complain / appeal http://ncts.ie/contact.html

Gareth2011

kincaid wrote: »

yes but the 2 tyres HAVE to be replaced before going back in.
its written on the report sheet and will not get cert until done.
he would have got it that very day only for this as no other faults as he get his mechanic to check it over beforehand.
they are both very good bridgestone tyres with no cuts etc on them.
these are a great tyre and its a pity he will have to take them off, loads of thread left and will still last longer than a new cheaper budget tyre.

the only reason they are being failed is due to being out of date he stated - no other reason..bit of a joke really

Well he could always say it to them and ask to see the manual and point the fact that they only have to advsie about the thread and age of tyres once they are over 3mm. He shouldn't have failed it because of that not when they are only to advise not fail vehicles. Then if they refuse he could go higher im guessing. The NCT have a quote to fil each day so pass and fail so many. Im guessing the nct guy took your mates car as a fail even tho there is no legal right to.

Nissan doctor

As has been said, tyre age is only a fail/advisory, you should still have got your cert(assuming you didn't fail on anything else) on the day and are not required to change the tyres.

If they have fail refusal on the sheet for tyre age alone then go back and see the centre supervisor.

kincaid

no he didnt take it up wrong as it passed on all except for the tyres,
He told him that his 2 tyres are out of date and will need to get them changed.
He won't get his nct cert until the tyres are changed and took back for them to see that this is done..

i honestly cant see him challenging this as he's a very easy going guy that never kicks up a fuss about anthing.
he will probably get new tyres on now.

Nissan doctor

kincaid wrote: »

no he didnt take it up wrong as it passed on all except for the tyres,
He told him that his 2 tyres are out of date and will need to get them changed.
He won't get his nct cert until the tyres are changed and took back for them to see that this is done..

i honestly cant see him challenging this as he's a very easy going guy that never kicks up a fuss about anthing.
he will probably get new tyres on now.

Well if thats the case whatever tester made the mistake will continue to make it with lots of other customers:rolleyes:

Gareth2011

kincaid wrote: »

no he didnt take it up wrong as it passed on all except for the tyres,
He told him that his 2 tyres are out of date and will need to get them changed.
He won't get his nct cert until the tyres are changed and took back for them to see that this is done..

i honestly cant see him challenging this as he's a very easy going guy that never kicks up a fuss about anthing.
he will probably get new tyres on now.

It's not a fuss they are taking him for a ride and he is letting them. Its alot cheaper to go back and ask for supervisor, maybe try to get hands on manual for it. So he can point out they are wrong. But if he wants to spend 110 yoyo min on 2 new tyres by all means go ahead but as nissan doctor says its messing it up for others too not only your friend.

vodkatime

I can definitely tell you from experience that this is not a fail. I dropped my sisters micra in for the nct a few months ago and the car passed but the tester said the tyres were over the age limit advised and said they should be replaced. The car didn't fail and I still got the cert. If I can find the nct report il upload it were it said at the bottom fail/advisory.

Your friend should definitely go back and have a word.

Gareth2011

slimjimmc wrote: »

He can appeal the decision as it has is no basis in law and is contrary to the NCT test criteria if the certificate states a FAIL because of tyre age (it should actually be a PASS Advisory)

However, while a tyre may appear good on the outside it can deteriorate internally. That is why he is advised to change them.

Fair enough but only advise. Not fail him for it.

Avns1s

NCT Manual can be downloaded here.

Only reference to age is on Page 63 (that I can find) and therefore this was definitely NOT a fail.

I would go back armed with a printoff of this document or this page at least.

kincaid

I will mention it to him and tell him he should go back in and get his nct cert and if not go to the supervisor.
lets him he get it next time

thanks

washman3

we must remember that many of these testers are failed mechanics.
heard of another case similar case like this also where the tester actually advised the driver where to get the tyres.!!
turned out the tyre dealer was his buddy.

dougie-lampkin

Gareth2011 wrote: »

It's not a fuss they are taking him for a ride and he is letting them.

They're hardly "taking him for a ride", seeing as it's a free visual retest. You could be right, it could be an elaborate scam they have going on with a local tyre centre. Then again, it's probably more likely the tester was mistaken, and a visit to the centre supervisor would net an apology and a pass cert.

These things happen, I've been failed on reversing lights and fog lights "not working", even though they're not fitted on the car. I asked the tester to show me the defective fog lights, and he copped that they're not fitted. No big deal, he apologised and struck them off the fail sheet (bringing it from two pages of fail items down to one :pac:).

junkyarddog

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=138

Tyre maufactures recommend replacing tyres when they get to be 10 years of age.

Nissan doctor

junkyarddog wrote: »

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=138

Tyre maufactures recommend replacing tyres when they get to be 10 years of age.

American spec tyres and regulations have little or nothing to do with european ones.

Its 6 years in europe.

junkyarddog

Nissan doctor wrote: »

American spec tyres and regulations have little or nothing to do with european ones.

Its 6 years in europe.

6th paragraph down,I'm pretty sure the UK is in europe.

Nissan doctor

junkyarddog wrote: »

6th paragraph down,I'm pretty sure the UK is in europe.

It is, but the BRMA also doesn't have anything to do with European regulations and the recommendations in that paragraph are over 10 years old.

junkyarddog

http://www.coopertire.co.uk/content/replacement-tyre-guide/tyre-service-life

http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible.html

Two differing opinions here.

Maybe tyre manufactures should print a "use by" date rather the the current "manufactured on" date system,it would solve a lot of problems.

exador

Is the fail advisory on aged tyres a reasonably new addition to the NCT or was it always the case ?

slapstick

i`ll be sanding the date off of my tires then before next nct

E39MSport

My '91 8er had the original factory tyres in great nick when I got it in 2010 (spare never on the road) and I had to bin them

Safety first and all. There's a fair gap between 20 yrs and 6 yrs though ....

Must say though that they (Pirelli P7000) gripped way better than the firestones on it now.

slimjimmc

exador wrote: »

Is the fail advisory on aged tyres a reasonably new addition to the NCT or was it always the case ?

There's no such thing as "fail advisory" it's either fail or pass. All the NCT can do is advise you that your tyres are old but they can't fail you for old tyres in any way unless the tyres are actually dangerous or illegal.

slapstick wrote: »

i`ll be sanding the date off of my tires then before next nct

Why? They can't fail you on tyre age so why bother.

lostboy

got an advisory for this around a month ago so definitely a tester in the wrong,


does swapping the bad tyres with the good ones on the car still work :pac:

Guy:Incognito

lostboy wrote: »

does swapping the bad tyres with the good ones on the car still work :pac:

It works for passing the NCT but not for keeping you alive.

Minister Boyce

Purchased a new motor recently and the Garage put the car through the test yesterday. A Fail/Refusal was given on my rear tyre for being 'bent/deformed'. Went straight to a Tyre Centre and replaced the tyre. (The Tyre Centre cold not see no fault in the tyre) - Straight back to the NCT centre and gets the Green Light.

On my Test report is does have 3 other pass/advisory notes on the other three tyres with the reason 'more that 6 years old'

the culture of deference

This is from motorcheck.ie from april 2010 about the new NCT rules. It seems the NCt people are wrong. Once your tyres are date marked you should be ok.
Tyres

Car tyres are the only point of contact between a vehicle and the road. The standards to which tyres are designed and built, is critical to ensuring adequate grip is maintained with the road surface.
An “E” or “e” mark indicates that the tyre is certified to comply with international regulations. A vehicle will fail if an “E” or “e” mark is not visible.





and from RTE
More than 100,000 fail NCT over tyres

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1005/nct.html

and from 123.ie

For tyres manufactured after the year 1999, the last four numbers identify the date of manufacture of the tyre to the nearest week. The first two of these four numbers identify the week of manufacture (which range from "01" to "52"). The last two numbers identify the year of manufacture (e.g., a tyre with the information "DOT XXXXXX5107" was manufactured in the 51th week of 2007).For tyres manufactured prior to the year 2000, three numbers instead of four indicate the date of manufacture.
It is recommended that you do not use tyres more than 6 years old from the date of manufacture. If a tyre has been in use, it has been reported that the effect of ageing has been lessened to a degree, but depending on the wear they should be replaced before 10 years. Vehicle manufacturers may recommend a different chronological age at which a tyre should be replaced based on their understanding of the specific vehicle application. If you are in any doubt about the age and wear of a tyre discuss it with a tyre expert or replace it.

Nissan doctor

I'd love to know who wrote the above piece :rolleyes:

The DOT number has no relevance or connection to the manufacturer date.

Compton

The tyres on one of my sets of alloys are 6 years old and the NCT recommended that I change them.

exador

slimjimmc wrote: »

There's no such thing as "fail advisory" it's either fail or pass. All the NCT can do is advise you that your tyres are old but they can't fail you for old tyres in any way unless the tyres are actually dangerous or illegal.


Why? They can't fail you on tyre age so why bother.

Apologies.. I meant Pass - advisory... do you think its a matter of time before they do bring in fail on aged tyres ? Maybe thats the way they are heading....