EPL - PCGM (English Premier League - Political Correctness Gone Mad)?

keanooo

The two charges are a joke:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/21/john-terry-racism-case-cps

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/20/liverpool-luis-suarez-patrice-evra

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/22/alan-hansen-black-footballers-coloured

Those who have played football at any sort of decent level, know that in the heat of the moment a lot of things get said that should be left on the pitch when the 90 minutes (plus injury time) are up (or 120 minutes (plus injury time) if it's a cup tie that has gone into extra time).

I'll be interested to hear what John Giles has to say about this on Thursday, but as far as I am concerned, too many commentators are afraid to rubbish these charges and explain what really happens out on the pitch...

Fuhrer

People get violent in the heat of the moment, you think you should be able to lamp someone you dont like and just shake hands and forget about it afterwards?

#15

The PC card is played even more than the race card at this stage.

keanooo

Fuhrer wrote: »

People get violent in the heat of the moment, you think you should be able to lamp someone you dont like and just shake hands and forget about it afterwards?

Do you think if you're walking to work with a ball at your feet - minding your own business - that I should be allowed come and slide tackle you to take the ball from you?

Apples and oranges mate... Lame analogy.

Fuhrer

keanooo wrote: »

Do you think if you're walking to work with a ball at your feet - minding your own business - that I should be allowed come and slide tackle you to take the ball from you?

Apples and oranges mate... Lame analogy.

Yes, your analogy was quite ****. You shouldnt have made it.

Bodhisopha

keanooo wrote: »

The two charges are a joke:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/21/john-terry-racism-case-cps

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/20/liverpool-luis-suarez-patrice-evra

Those who have played football at any sort of decent level, know that in the heat of the moment a lot of things get said that should be left on the pitch when the 90 minutes (plus injury time) are up (or 120 minutes (plus injury time) if it's a cup tie that has gone into extra time).

I'll be interested to hear what John Giles has to say about this on Thursday, but as far as I am concerned, too many commentators are afraid to rubbish these charges and explain what really happens out on the pitch...

I don't think John Giles will be onside with your view that both charges are a joke. In fact, i'm certain he won't be.

Your Airbag

keanooo wrote: »

The two charges are a joke:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/21/john-terry-racism-case-cps

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/20/liverpool-luis-suarez-patrice-evra

Those who have played football at any sort of decent level, know that in the heat of the moment a lot of things get said that should be left on the pitch when the 90 minutes (plus injury time) are up (or 120 minutes (plus injury time) if it's a cup tie that has gone into extra time).

I'll be interested to hear what John Giles has to say about this on Thursday, but as far as I am concerned, too many commentators are afraid to rubbish these charges and explain what really happens out on the pitch...

Racism is totally different than one white Caucasian winding up another with insults like "d1ckhe4d" "w4nk3r" and so on.

Is totally belittling and dehumanising to reference someones color. Your are hurting them on a far deeper level. Insulting not only them but their families also. You are singling out a minority, its a disgusting form of bullying.

I have worked closely with black people and traded the usual workplace banter and the odd insult in the heat of the moment but never once did I reference their color because there were plenty of small minded racist twats where I worked to do that and I saw how hurtful it was.

There is no place for it in civilized society and the "lets excuse it because it was the heat of the moment on the pitch" excuse is utter tosh. Call someone a useless git or likewise, there are a whole host of insults from you to pick form.

Once you reference color you are making a very deliberate move to go beyond winding up somebody and engage in bullying and belittlement.

The only joke here are your views and your post.

Mr.Crinklewood

Could this not be discussed in the other thread?

UnitedIrishman

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

Could this not be discussed in the other thread?

Or perhaps not at all?

keanooo

Your Airbag wrote: »

The only joke here are your views and your post.

Fuhrer wrote: »

Yes, your analogy was quite ****. You shouldnt have made it.

It would appear that your understanding of "what happens on the pitch" is limited to whatever fantasy football league the two of you participate in...

Fuhrer, you can't compare day-to-day interactions with what happens once you cross the white line... a point apparently lost on you when I showed up the ludicrousness of your analogy.

Your Airbag, the only crime Suarez is guilty of is not signing for United last year. Evra has been whinging for as long as I can remember. Which would be fine if he wasn't playing like a girl recently. Him and Rio should leave the philosophical issues to one side for this year and learn how to jump higher than six inches in the air to defend a ball coming into the box...

Your Airbag

keanooo wrote: »

It would appear that your understanding of "what happens on the pitch" is limited to (1) whatever fantasy football league the two of you participate in...

Fuhrer, you can't compare day-to-day interactions with what happens once you cross the white line... a point apparently lost on you when I showed up the ludicrousness of your analogy.

Your Airbag, the only crime Suarez is guilty of (2) is not signing for United last year. Evra has been whinging for as long as I can remember. Which would be fine if he wasn't (3) playing like a girl recently. Him and Rio should leave the philosophical issues to one side for this year and learn how to jump higher than six inches in the air to defend a ball coming into the box...

You have shown your true colors with this reply and you don't come accross well, in fact its this kind of knee jerk illogical answer driven by anger that's the problem in the first place.

1. How can you possibly know what type, level or form of sports I and Fuhre have or do engage in? The answer is you can't possibly know.

You assume that because we have a different opinion that we must have never played serious sport at a competitive level instead of realising its a democracy here in Ireland and shock horror, I am entitled to a different opinion.

I have played soccer and rugby at a competetive level btw.

2. No. He is gulity of racism.

3. Yes, insult Rio and Evra even though Evra's allegation have benn found to be true. Why did you pick on Rio also? whats he got to do with this, why Rio and not say, Rooney? His color perhaps.

Thanx 4 The Fish

In my second game over here I guy was sent off for calling me a thick mick C**t. Straight red for him. There is a big clampdown on it and has been for a while. The lad got a 4 game ban too as the ref put it in his report.

TBH I did not think anything of it at the time and still don't, happens all of the time and I give as good as I get on a pitch. Is there a line? Well I do not care really, I am knocking on a bit and will take most advantages I can get against a younger faster (and likely less experienced) player, there are things I would not do though so I suppose there must be, be they personal boundaries or those imposed by the FA.

keanooo

Your Airbag wrote: »

Why did you pick on Rio also? whats he got to do with this, why Rio and not say, Rooney? His color perhaps.

Don't your dare say anything about the white Pele (though, if you ask me, the appelation is an insult to Wazza).

That opening line is joke lest I have to point that out. Rio's colour never entered into my head for my last post. What he has a lot more common with Evra - than skin colour - is a tendency to wax lyrical about every subject under the sun while not producing the goods on the pitch... Rio is the worst of the lot. You don't hear of Rooney saying much off the pitch.

eagle eye

Your Airbag wrote: »

Racism is totally different than one white Caucasian winding up another with insults like "d1ckhe4d" "w4nk3r" and so on.

Is totally belittling and dehumanising to reference someones color. Your are hurting them on a far deeper level. Insulting not only them but their families also. You are singling out a minority, its a disgusting form of bullying.

I have worked closely with black people and traded the usual workplace banter and the odd insult in the heat of the moment but never once did I reference their color because there were plenty of small minded racist twats where I worked to do that and I saw how hurtful it was.

There is no place for it in civilized society and the "lets excuse it because it was the heat of the moment on the pitch" excuse is utter tosh. Call someone a useless git or likewise, there are a whole host of insults from you to pick form.

Once you reference color you are making a very deliberate move to go beyond winding up somebody and engage in bullying and belittlement.

The only joke here are your views and your post.

This thing of having to be pc whilst playing sport is ridiculous. A person's heart rate is higher than normal, everything you do is instantanious on a football field. You can't be held resposible for what comes out of your mouth in the heat of the moment. Its not like walking to work or being in a normal job where you have time to slow down and think about things.

If people are forced to think about what they are doing before they do it then they have to slow down and if I'm coaching a team I don't want that to happen to any of my players because its very likely to affect their performance.

Turtyturd

keanooo wrote: »

Don't your dare say anything about the white Pele (though, if you ask me, the appelation is an insult to Wazza).

That opening line is joke lest I have to point that out. Rio's colour never entered into my head for my last post. What he has a lot more common with Evra - than skin colour - is a tendency to wax lyrical about every subject under the sun while not producing the goods on the pitch... Rio is the worst of the lot. You don't hear of Rooney saying much off the pitch.

Apart from a sh*te nickname is that not also a racist term in the current PC crazy world?

SantryRed

eagle eye wrote: »

Your Airbag wrote: »

Racism is totally different than one white Caucasian winding up another with insults like "d1ckhe4d" "w4nk3r" and so on.

Is totally belittling and dehumanising to reference someones color. Your are hurting them on a far deeper level. Insulting not only them but their families also. You are singling out a minority, its a disgusting form of bullying.

I have worked closely with black people and traded the usual workplace banter and the odd insult in the heat of the moment but never once did I reference their color because there were plenty of small minded racist twats where I worked to do that and I saw how hurtful it was.

There is no place for it in civilized society and the "lets excuse it because it was the heat of the moment on the pitch" excuse is utter tosh. Call someone a useless git or likewise, there are a whole host of insults from you to pick form.

Once you reference color you are making a very deliberate move to go beyond winding up somebody and engage in bullying and belittlement.

The only joke here are your views and your post.

This thing of having to be pc whilst playing sport is ridiculous. A person's heart rate is higher than normal, everything you do is instantanious on a football field. You can't be held resposible for what comes out of your mouth in the heat of the moment. Its not like walking to work or being in a normal job where you have time to slow down and think about things.

If people are forced to think about what they are doing before they do it then they have to slow down and if I'm coaching a team I don't want that to happen to any of my players because its very likely to affect their performance.

Wow

keanooo

Turtyturd wrote: »

Apart from a sh*te nickname is that not also a racist term in the current PC crazy world?

If you follow "their" logic it is. But no one thinks like that...

You can however, get your own back by giving a confused look anytime someone mentions Pele. Just let them repeat... "You know... Pele"... while you stare at them blankly.

Finally exclaim: "Oh... you mean the black Rooney".

Your Airbag

keanooo wrote: »

Don't your dare say anything about the white Pele (though, if you ask me, the appelation is an insult to Wazza).

That opening line is joke lest I have to point that out. Rio's colour never entered into my head for my last post. What he has a lot more common with Evra - than skin colour - is a tendency to wax lyrical about every subject under the sun while not producing the goods on the pitch... Rio is the worst of the lot. You don't hear of Rooney saying much off the pitch.

Fair enough but as for the Rooney comment, as much as I love the guy you must be joking right?

eagle eye wrote: »

This thing of having to be pc whilst playing sport is ridiculous. A person's heart rate is higher than normal, everything you do is instantanious on a football field. You can't be held resposible for what comes out of your mouth in the heat of the moment.

No. You can, will and should be. Like I already said there is a clear distinction between insults and racial slurs.

Every player has to cope with a heart rate and the majority don't engage in racisim. This is because they are not racist and don't see the point of such hurtfull comments when there is a whole plethora of other words that can be used to get a point accross to their opponent.

When players do say such things and return to the dressing rooms with their black teammates afterwards what should they say? ah dont worry about that word I used out their, I'm referencing his skin color and ethnicity which you share but hey it doesn't apply to you mate, I like you. Utter tosh.

Most goverments rightly prosecute for racism now and rightly so because the vast majority of the population realise its disgusting and unwelcome in todays multiethnic cities. There are plenty of heat of the moment situations in life, its not just confined to football. Giving someone the freedom to commit prosecutable actions just because they have stepped over a white line onto a grass pitch is laughable. Why don't we let them sell drugs out their while were at it.

If its not god enough for your teamate, why your opponent? To wind him up you say. Is there no other way? How about playing better than him and beating him fair and square. Then you can let him know how superior your game is to his without a racist insult. Most racial insults will be used when said oppent is getting the better of the other guy and when his skill has failed to be enough he goes for the deep cutting insult option even though his heart rate has been an issue before this point.

baalthor

eagle eye wrote: »

Your Airbag wrote: »

Racism is totally different than one white Caucasian winding up another with insults like "d1ckhe4d" "w4nk3r" and so on.

Is totally belittling and dehumanising to reference someones color. Your are hurting them on a far deeper level. Insulting not only them but their families also. You are singling out a minority, its a disgusting form of bullying.

I have worked closely with black people and traded the usual workplace banter and the odd insult in the heat of the moment but never once did I reference their color because there were plenty of small minded racist twats where I worked to do that and I saw how hurtful it was.

There is no place for it in civilized society and the "lets excuse it because it was the heat of the moment on the pitch" excuse is utter tosh. Call someone a useless git or likewise, there are a whole host of insults from you to pick form.

Once you reference color you are making a very deliberate move to go beyond winding up somebody and engage in bullying and belittlement.

The only joke here are your views and your post.

This thing of having to be pc whilst playing sport is ridiculous. A person's heart rate is higher than normal, everything you do is instantanious on a football field. You can't be held resposible for what comes out of your mouth in the heat of the moment. Its not like walking to work or being in a normal job where you have time to slow down and think about things.

If people are forced to think about what they are doing before they do it then they have to slow down and if I'm coaching a team I don't want that to happen to any of my players because its very likely to affect their performance.

How come we don't hear about racism as much in other sports ?
But then I guess athletes in these sports aren't pushed beyond the limits of human endurance the way soccer players are ...

#15

eagle eye wrote: »

This thing of having to be pc whilst playing sport is ridiculous.

Asking someone not to be racist is not the same as being part of the PC brigade.

It's just common sense, and people who genuinely can't see the difference between someone being overly-PC and being anti-racism are so touched in the head that it doesn't really matter what they think anyway.

If people are forced to think about what they are doing before they do it then they have to slow down

FFS.

Being 'not a racist' doesn't even require anyone to think, never mind slowing them down.

There are millions of sportspeople that can participate just fine in sports without resorting to racist language.

If there a few people who have their performances affected by having to engage their brain about the language they use, then they should really just fúck off out of sport altogether if it affects them so badly.

Fuhrer

keanooo wrote: »

Fuhrer, you can't compare day-to-day interactions with what happens once you cross the white line... a point apparently lost on you when I showed up the ludicrousness of your analogy.

You didn't show up anyone's analogy. You showed up yourself with a fundamental lack of anything approaching basic intelligence. I didnt say anything about a day-to-day interaction, you did, you made the moronic comparison then talked about how stupid your moronic comparison was, it was truly baffling to read.

The point you were trying to make(And im being incredibly generous here in crediting you with trying to make a point) was that once on a pitch, you had carte blanche to say anything you want, my point was that why not have carte blanche to do anything you want, punch someone, slap someone, dive in with a leg breaker and face no consequences, it is after all in the heat of the moment.

Your Airbag

#15 wrote: »

Asking someone not to be racist is not the same as being part of the PC brigade.

It's just common sense, and people who genuinely can't see the difference between someone being overly-PC and being anti-racism are so touched in the head that it doesn't really matter what they think anyway.



FFS.

Being 'not a racist' doesn't even require anyone to think, never mind slowing them down.

There are millions of sportspeople that can participate just fine in sports without resorting to racist language.

If there a few people who have their performances affected by having to engage their brain about the language they use, then they should really just fúck off out of sport altogether if it affects them so badly.

Carefull now

eagle eye

Your Airbag wrote: »

No. You can, will and should be. Like I already said there is a clear distinction between insults and racial slurs.

Your mother is a whore, your sister is an ugly bitch, I did your wife. Are they not as bad as a racial slur?

Your Airbag wrote: »

Every player has to cope with a heart rate and the majority don't engage in racisim. This is because they are not racist and don't see the point of such a hurtfull comments when there is a whole plethora of other words that can be used to get a point accross to their opponent.

When players do say such things and return to the dressing rooms with their black teammates afterwards what should they say? ah dont worry about that word I used out their, I'm referencing his skin color and ethnicity which you share but hey it doesn't apply to you mate, I like you. Utter tosh.

I'd never use any racial term myself because it would never enter my head to but it does enter some peoples minds and as long as when the game is over they apologise for it I think its fine. I think anything like that is understandable during a game, not after it or before it.

Your Airbag wrote: »

Most goverments rightly prosecute for racism now and rightly so because the vast majority of the population realise its disgusting and unwelcome in todays multiethnic cities. There are plenty of heat of the moment situations in life, its not just confined to football. Giving someone the freedom to commit prosecutable actions just because they have stepped over a white line onto a grass pitch is laughable. Why don't we let them sell drugs out their while were at it.

The last line of that post is silly and if you don't understand the difference then we are wasting our time talking. If you bring drugs onto a football field then its pre-meditated. If you tell somebody before a football game that you are going to racially abuse somebody then thats wrong.
I'm sure that any teammate is going to know the guy he is playing with. He will know what he is like off the field and his thinking will be largely based on that.
In society its not acceptable to racially abuse somebody. But on a football field things are different as I've explained. There are heat of the moment situations off a football field but for the most part these can be avoided by thinking or slowing down or avoiding drink/drugs which you will find have been imbibed in a high percentage of cases when it occurs. People who suffer from stress are likely to do it too but if they looked after themselves then it wouldn't happen. Then you are left with the dirtbag who none of us want to know and should rightly be punished for it.

Your Airbag wrote: »

If its not god enough for your teamate, why your opponent? To wind him up you say. Is there no other way? How about playing better than him and beating him fair and square. Then you can let him know how superior your game is to his without a racist insult. Most racial insults will be used when said oppent is getting the better of the other guy and when his skill has failed to be enough he goes for the deep cutting insult option even though his haeart rate has been tested before this point.

If its being used to upset an opponent on a football field and get the better of him/her then its not meant in a racial sense but is just a tool being used to win. It becomes just abuse to me in that instance.

Your Airbag

eagle eye wrote: »

Your mother is a whore, your sister is an ugly bitch, I did your wife. Are they not as bad as a racial slur?

I can't help it that my mother puts it about as much as my wife. My sister was born that face its not like she picked it.

Joking aside they are not the same, not even close because you'd have never meet all three therefore I know your trying to wind me up. A racial slur on the otherhand is when your referring to the skin color I have thats right in front of your eyes. Why not give me all the mother and sister stuff instead? Why can't I get it instead of the racial stuff just because I'm black. The answer is because your racist (obviously I'm not aiming this directly at you but the hypothectical guy)

The last line of that post is silly and if you don't understand the difference then we are wasting our time talking. If you bring drugs onto a football field then its pre-meditated.

Obviously I was exaggerating but we don't let people headbutt or karate kick players without prosecution because they are illegal as are racial slurs and rightly subject to the same treatment. They are widely regarded by the vast majority as crimes due to legislation in place due to everyones clear opinion they have no place in civilised society.

In society its not acceptable to racially abuse somebody. But on a football field things are different as I've explained.

No. Why do you think this, because of passion and heart rate? All players have to deal with this and only a few engage in racism. I'm sure a managers pulse rate sky rockets if they are under threat late in a game. Should they be allowed to affect the game be throwing a racial slur at a player from the touchline?

There are heat of the moment situations off a football field but for the most part these can be avoided by thinking or slowing down

Yes and you can think before you speak on a football field without resorting with racism too. Its not like we are dealing with rocket scientists here. If a footballer is getting owned by another he can choose beteen working harder or racial abuse without slowing down. Your argument here is so weak.

If its being used to upset an opponent on a football field and get the better of him/her then its not meant in a racial sense but is just a tool being used to win. It becomes just abuse to me in that instance.

Wow just wow. What about playing well as a tool to win?

keanooo

Fuhrer wrote: »

I didnt say anything about a day-to-day interaction.... you made the moronic comparison...

Oh really Mein Führer... You inferred from your first post that there should be the same standards applied "in the heat of battle" on a pitch as there is in day-to-day life... but perhaps I got that wrong. Do you think the same standards do/should apply?

And as a side issue, has it struck anyone else as a little odd that someone who chooses the name of the world's biggest Nazi is claiming the moral high ground here?

Fuhrer

keanooo wrote: »

Oh really Mein Führer... You inferred from your first post that there should be the same standards applied "in the heat of battle" on a pitch as there is in day-to-day life... but perhaps I got that wrong. Do you think the same standards do/should apply?

And as a side issue, has it struck anyone else as a little odd that someone who chooses the name of the world's biggest Nazi is claiming the moral high ground here?

No genius, I was referring to what you can do on the pitch. And no, your utterly stupid standards dont apply.


And how can I claim the moral high ground?

Well, its because you're making it so easy.

keanooo

Fuhrer wrote: »

No genius, I was referring to what you can do on the pitch. And no, your utterly stupid standards dont apply.


And how can I claim the moral high ground?

Well, its because you're making it so easy.

You answered none of my questions (again).

Fuhrer

keanooo wrote: »

You answered none of my questions (again).

You asked two questions, both of which were clearly answered.


If basic comprehension is beyond you, I suppose I can understand why you hold such idiotic beliefs.

keanooo

More of the same today...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/22/alan-hansen-black-footballers-coloured

I always suspected him as a vile racist. 8 weeks suspension from the BBC anyone?

(Note: Link added to first post)

Your Airbag

keanooo wrote: »

More of the same today...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/22/alan-hansen-black-footballers-coloured

I always suspected him as a vile racist. 8 weeks suspension from the BBC anyone?

(Note: Link added to first post)

This is not the same. Its a poor choice of words rather than Hansen trying to insult somebody. Terry and Suarez knew the word they were using was taboo where Hansen didn't.

keanooo

Your Airbag wrote: »

This is not the same. Its a poor choice of words rather than Hansen trying to insult somebody. Terry and Suarez knew the word they were using was taboo where Hansen didn't.

It's not even a poor choice of words. In the States you almost have to say "people of colour"... "black" is frowned upon. "African American" is used a lot too, even if you're talking about a black Jamaican.

The whole thing is ridiculous. The idea that Hansen should have to come and "mea culpa" in front of the media, shows you how off the charts the thinking has gone on this issue.

Paul Tergat

I love the fact you used acronyms in the thread title but then go onto explain what they mean.

Thats all I have to add to what is a ****ing stupid OP

keanooo

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Thats all I have to add to what is a ****ing stupid OP

I make it rule never to waste my time commenting on threads if find "****ing stupid" Paul.

Give it a shot. It might help with you AIs (Anger Issues).

Helix

what hansen said is a mirror image of the suarez thing. to suarez, negrito isnt a racist word, but it still provoked the same response as a racist word. to hansen and his generation, coloured isn't a racist word, in fact he probably sees it as being far less racist than black, but again it provoked the same reaction as a racist word

i dont think either of them are racist, just guilty of using ambiguous terms that could be deemed racist. the big difference, for me, is that suarez repeatedly used it after seeing the reaction, and hasn't issued an apology. hansen noted the reaction and was straight out to apologise for any offence his use of the word caused

one shows a level of responsibility and willingness to take responsibility for a poor choice of words, the other, along with his club trying to throw blame everywhere else but the originator of the issue, shows a lack of class, manners and understanding

Crazy Horse 6

Helix wrote: »

what hansen said is a mirror image of the suarez thing. to suarez, negrito isnt a racist word, but it still provoked the same response as a racist word. to hansen and his generation, coloured isn't a racist word, in fact he probably sees it as being far less racist than black, but again it provoked the same reaction as a racist word

i dont think either of them are racist, just guilty of using ambiguous terms that could be deemed racist. the big difference, for me, is that suarez repeatedly used it after seeing the reaction, and hasn't issued an apology. hansen noted the reaction and was straight out to apologise for any offence his use of the word caused

one shows a level of responsibility and willingness to take responsibility for a poor choice of words, the other, along with his club trying to throw blame everywhere else but the originator of the issue, shows a lack of class, manners and understanding

Hansen offered an apology because he would have been out of a job, no other reason. Suarez owes nobody an apology imo. Like you say neither are racist terms or could be construed as such by any level headed person.

astrofool

eagle eye wrote: »

This thing of having to be pc whilst playing sport is ridiculous. A person's heart rate is higher than normal, everything you do is instantanious on a football field. You can't be held resposible for what comes out of your mouth in the heat of the moment. Its not like walking to work or being in a normal job where you have time to slow down and think about things.

If people are forced to think about what they are doing before they do it then they have to slow down and if I'm coaching a team I don't want that to happen to any of my players because its very likely to affect their performance.

eagle eye in trying to be controversial shocker.

But, where in the hell can you come up with such sh*te as:
"If people are forced to think about what they are doing before they do it then they have to slow down"

People should always think about what they are doing, the difference is that some people think faster, and react faster, and do the right thing. Tourrettes is the condition where you speak without thinking.

Helix

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Hansen offered an apology because he would have been out of a job, no other reason. Suarez owes nobody an apology imo. Like you say neither are racist terms or could be construed as such by any level headed person.

if someone takes offence to something you say, its surely more mature to apologise for it and explain to them that they misunderstood what you said, rather than carrying on the way liverpool and suarez have.

its the reaction from them thats the issue for me

K-9

Helix wrote: »

if someone takes offence to something you say, its surely more mature to apologise for it and explain to them that they misunderstood what you said, rather than carrying on the way liverpool and suarez have.

its the reaction from them thats the issue for me

Suarez is saying he didn't say it repeatedly. I read a press report after the match saying Evra was in no mood for apologies after, he was raging. Within a day or 2 the complaint went into the FA and that was that.

It could be that Suarez feels Evra has exaggerated his evidence.

Your Airbag

Helix wrote: »

(1) what hansen said is a mirror image of the suarez thing. to suarez, negrito isnt a racist word, but it still provoked the same response as a racist word. to hansen and his generation, coloured isn't a racist word, in fact he probably sees it as being far less racist than black, but again it provoked the same reaction as a racist word

(2) i dont think either of them are racist, just guilty of using ambiguous terms that could be deemed racist. the big difference, for me, is that (3)suarez repeatedly used it after seeing the reaction, and hasn't issued an apology. hansen noted the reaction and was straight out to apologise for any offence his use of the word caused

one shows a level of responsibility and willingness to take responsibility for a poor choice of words, the other, along with his club trying to throw blame everywhere else but the originator of the issue, shows a lack of class, manners and understanding

(1) It's not the same, not even close. Hansen was asked to comment on the Suarez issue. He wasn't directing his poor choice of words at somone in the room to wind them up. If you really think they are the same all I can say is Wow.

(2) Hansen isn't (not based on last nights anyway fau pa anyway). Suarez would not use the words he directed at Evra on a black team mate but as Evra's an opponent he did. He didn't insult his mother, his ability or looks but his color and ethnicity. In that situation and on that day he was racist.

(3) How can you see this and still say it was the same as the Hansen situation?

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Hansen offered an apology because he would have been out of a job, no other reason. Suarez owes nobody an apology imo. Like you say neither are racist terms or could be construed as such by any level headed person.

Wow. See point two above and again Wow.

Helix

im sorry, do you think im taking suarez's side here?

Your Airbag

Helix wrote: »

im sorry, do you think im taking suarez's side here?

I'm not sure tbh. You said he isn't racist, you also said he kept using the phrase even though it upset Evra and that he along with his club trying to throw blame everywhere else.

A bit contradictionary no?

But surely you you must see its not the same as the Hansen situation.

keanooo

Bodhisopha wrote: »

I don't think John Giles will be onside with your view that both charges are a joke. In fact, i'm certain he won't be.

Bodhisopha dunno if you heard Giles tonight, but he was at best equivocal on the issue. If anything he came down on Suarez's side.

Pro. F

keanooo wrote: »

Those who have played football at any sort of decent level, know that in the heat of the moment a lot of things get said that should be left on the pitch when the 90 minutes (plus injury time) are up (or 120 minutes (plus injury time) if it's a cup tie that has gone into extra time).

Does being in the heat of the moment excuse all possible actions and things said?

eagle eye wrote: »

Your mother is a whore, your sister is an ugly bitch, I did your wife. Are they not as bad as a racial slur?

No they are not. And it has been explained on these boards in these arguments before. But for some reason you seem to want to continue to ignore those explanations and to excuse racial insults. It betrays your underlying indifference to racism and it is disgustingly sloppy thinking on your part.

Those personal insults that you mention are not as bad as racist insults because they are personal and virtually meaningless.

The insults you mention are personal, they affect one person. Race relations and integration is something which effects the population of the entire planet. When they go bad they cause wars, riots, discrimination and general societal breakdown. For that reason there are strict laws to try and ensure racial harmony. It is illegal to discriminate by race and it is illegal to allow discriminatory attitudes and language in the workplace. Heat of the moment is not an excuse, just like it is not an excuse for lots of other things.

Those insults you mention are virtually meaningless. They are generic and more or less interchangeable for any opponent. They are bad as they're intended to be hurtful, but they are not associated with hundreds of years of war, slavery, genocide, hate politics and pseudo science.

Do you get it now?

flahavaj

Eagle Eye got f*cking OWNED.

Helix

Your Airbag wrote: »

I'm not sure tbh. You said he isn't racist, you also said he kept using the phrase even though it upset Evra and that he along with his club trying to throw blame everywhere else.

A bit contradictionary no?

But surely you you must see its not the same as the Hansen situation.

no contradiction, he saw it was winding him up. it doesnt make him a racist

the comparisons are drawn to the hansen incident because hansen handled it properly, unlike liverpool and suarez

Paul Tergat

keanooo wrote: »

I make it rule never to waste my time commenting on threads if find "****ing stupid" Paul.

Give it a shot. It might help with you AIs (Anger Issues).

yeah its clear i have serious anger issues....

how about giving it a shot not to post ****e threads?

keanooo

Pro. F wrote: »

Does being in the heat of the moment excuse all possible actions and things said?

John Giles said it at least mitigates the situtation.

I like Suarez as a lot, but after Liverpool's crassness the last couple of days I don't really want to defend him anymore...

keanooo

Paul Tergat wrote: »

yeah its clear i have serious anger issues....

how about giving it a shot not to post ****e threads?

An angry man will find provocation no matter what the circumstances, Paul.

The key is not to respond.

Paul Tergat

keanooo wrote: »

An angry man will find provocation no matter what the circumstances, Paul.

The key is not to respond.

Another **** post. Well done lad

PHB

Lads, cop on with this crap. Paul Tergat, you are not the mod, if you have a problem with the post, report it. Otherwise, don't post in a thread you've no interest in. Infraction.

Thread closed, as the conversation is being duplicated in the racism thread.