Animal I.D.

Snowc

Does anybody know what kind of animal this is ?I was thinking a mink but it had a small bit of white/orange on its neck so thought maybe a stoat.

hunterpajero

pine martin worst than mink they are,unfortunatly there a protected species:(

Snowc

hunterpajero wrote: »

pine martin worst than mink they are,unfortunatly there a protected species:(

Thanks,I let it go anyways .... nearly took my finger with it do:eek:Seemed very vecious,would they do much damge to fish stocks ?

hunterpajero

dont think they bother with fish could be wrong on that one,i read before thats its mostly squirrels and rodents and birds that make up there diet,i hope you released it near a road so hopefully a car tyre will make a sandwich of it,we had one kill three hares in our hare park a while back ate the heads off of them dirty so and so

Cass

hunterpajero wrote: »

.......... unfortunatly there a protected species:(

They are so highly protected that even trapping them is an offence, accidental or not. As is disturbing their habitat, relocating them, and of course injuring/shooting them.

They can only be trapped or relocated under license, and supervision of the NPWS and for scientific/study purposes.

Devil in disguise.

that's the celtic tigar. He's on the run since 07!!

Birdnuts

hunterpajero wrote: »

pine martin worst than mink they are,unfortunatly there a protected species:(

I wouldn't go that far - they have actually helped native Red Squirrles by thinning out the invasive Grey's which spend more time on the ground and are less agile then the Reds. They also do a good job on rats

PS: Fish are not part of their natural diet, unless wounded or sick neither are Hares for obvious reasons;)

fodda

Pine Martin are not worse than mink in fact the keep a lot of pest and alien species at bay. They became rare because they were killed for their fur and not because they were regarded as any kind of pest.

Birdnuts

fodda wrote: »

Pine Martin are not worse than mink in fact the keep a lot of pest and alien species at bay. They became rare because they were killed for their fur and not because they were regarded as any kind of pest.

Ive heard they will kill young mink as well

Spunk84

how did they kill a hare

wildlifeboy

hunterpajero wrote: »

pine martin worst than mink they are,unfortunatly there a protected species:(

Really..Really? got any proof for your general, wide sweeping bull shine statement?

wildlifeboy

Snowc wrote: »

Does anybody know what kind of animal this is ?I was thinking a mink but it had a small bit of white/orange on its neck so thought maybe a stoat.

its unbelievable that someone out trapping animals is not familair with our native species. I mean come on. its not as if its a big list. you should probably brush up on your knowledge before you slit a stoats throat or dig out a badger sett thinking its a fox den.

Tackleberrywho

wildlifeboy wrote: »

its unbelievable that someone out trapping animals is not familair with our native species. I mean come on. its not as if its a big list. you should probably brush up on your knowledge before you slit a stoats throat or dig out a badger sett thinking its a fox den.

Slit a stoats throat, love to see someone try that one.
Ouch

Dig out a fox den, only hardcore foxers do that.
Too much work for an amature, and personally not my Cupan tae.

terminator2

wildlifeboy wrote: »

its unbelievable that someone out trapping animals is not familair with our native species. I mean come on. its not as if its a big list. you should probably brush up on your knowledge before you slit a stoats throat or dig out a badger sett thinking its a fox den.

he only asked a question , he was enlightened , now hes a wiser man , you dont have to flog him:eek::eek:

veXual

Speaking from what little experience I've had with Pine Marten I would have to say that Mink are definately far more of a pest species.

We've seen a fairly large growth in the Pine Martin population in our area but have never had any issues with them. Any game related issues are mostly caused by Mink. On a few occasions we've had Mink enter and kill dozens of birds in our pens but we've no record in the last ~20 years of Pine Marten doing the same.

I think Pine Marten are generally lumped into the same catagory as Mink becasue they are somewhat similar although I'll admit I'm not quite sure what their feeding habits are like.

Deerspotter

wildlifeboy wrote: »

its unbelievable that someone out trapping animals is not familair with our native species. I mean come on. its not as if its a big list. you should probably brush up on your knowledge before you slit a stoats throat or dig out a badger sett thinking its a fox den.

How's the view from that high horse you're on?

Spunk84

wildlifeboy wrote: »

or dig out a badger sett thinking its a fox den.

what idoit would dig a badger sett thinking its a fox den????? have you seen a badger sett before wildpro, it has more than 2 entrances and is like JCBs have hit it. Were a fox den has 2-4 entrances and has sqat around it, maybe a few bones or feathers;) also,im not sure what website your looking at but if a person is digging a badger sett then there digging for badgers which is illegal, unless they know 110% theres foxes using it.

mindless comments cause arguements, the op asked a question and we answered it, no harm no foul:mad:

Grizzly 45

Pine Martins are very fond of chickens and their eggs.As well as nesting in car engine rooms and munching on the electrics.Every year in Springtime in Germany there is a plauge of stopped cars courtesy of mr P Martin and his missus shacking up .:pac:

landkeeper

wildlifeboy wrote: »

Really..Really? got any proof for your general, wide sweeping bull shine statement?

over 200 dead 16 week pheasant poults killed in one night,in a release pen made from 1" chicken wire 8ft high, dug in at the bottom and folded out at the top with .2x strands of electric fence round it but with a few high over hanging branches. all killed with a single bite whilst roosting , yes i know it was a pine marten as i saw it doing it's stuff :mad: over 2.5 k gone in one night

70 rare breed poultry killed by a determined pine marten that ate his way through the roof of the shed they were housed in, killed everything, ate one! then curled up in a nest box and went to sleep till the owner came in in the morning,a nice find for the pensioner who had bred these birds for 30 years .!wiped out in one night :eek:

several other of my friends whose poultry have been decimated by pine martens 'breaking ' in to their accommodation to wreak havoc the strange thing is they tend to hang around after the deed is done

you can build a fox/mink proof setup for fowl it's nigh on impossible to keep the pine marten out

fodda

landkeeper wrote: »

you can build a fox/mink proof setup for fowl it's nigh on impossible to keep the pine marten out

Bit of an over statement.

terminator2

sorry to hear that landkeeper , im a gun club member nigh on 20 years now and as long as ive been a member we have never had any losses from vermin ,pinemartin ,cats etc etc , the only losses we had were from disease and they were few , so maybe you are the exception rather than the rule...... had an idiot let his dog chase and kill young ducks that we had just released

landkeeper

not really,! i know i can and have build a run that will keep out foxes that's easy , mink are a bit more difficult but not impossible ,we never had a problem with mink in release pens despite the fact they were around ,but pine martens are a different kettle of fish twice in 2 years we had big kills
the one that killed the 70 chickens actually ate his way through roofing felt -1/2"plywood - insulation -hard board and then got started on his supper

fodda

landkeeper wrote: »

not really,! i know i can and have build a run that will keep out foxes that's easy , mink are a bit more difficult but not impossible ,we never had a problem with mink in release pens despite the fact they were around ,but pine martens are a different kettle of fish twice in 2 years we had big kills
the one that killed the 70 chickens actually ate his way through roofing felt -1/2"plywood - insulation -hard board and then got started on his supper

Steel roofing sheets instead of plywood and wire mesh instead of chicken wire. Electric fence?

If you are going to keep animals it is up to you to provide adequate fencing and housing to protect against escape and predators no matter what they are be it mice or grizzly bear depending on whats around you.

FOXHUNTER1

I remember being at an NARGC meeting last year and they were saying that there was a corncrake nesting in Clare somewhere and the wildlife crowd put up fences and stopped all entry to the site so as to protect the birds nest then they came along and released a few pine martins 500 yards away you can imagine the result "MUPPETS"
They have released them all over the country at this stage including both slobs in Wexford so time will tell how much of an effect they will have on the bird populations down here I know plenty of duck have been taken from pens so far this year down our way.

landkeeper

fodda wrote: »

Steel roofing sheets instead of plywood and wire mesh instead of chicken wire. Electric fence?

If you are going to keep animals it is up to you to provide adequate fencing and housing to protect against escape and predators no matter what they are be it mice or grizzly bear depending on whats around you.

are you living in the real world lad ,:D as i think your in cloud cuckoo land with those sort of comments be practical ffs not just argumentative
the lad that ate through the roof would have just gone through the side of the shed had the roof been as you suggest steel sheeting , the bugger that killed all the pheasants came down through some high branches 30-40ft up, yes you could make a steel chicken shed with no possible way in or a totally enclosed release pen with a roof but where do you draw the line

fodda

landkeeper wrote: »

are you living in the real world lad ,:D as i think your in cloud cuckoo land with those sort of comments be practical ffs not just stupid

I would never think of providing proper secure housing for any animals i would keep as stupid.

Birdnuts

FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »

I remember being at an NARGC meeting last year and they were saying that there was a corncrake nesting in Clare somewhere and the wildlife crowd put up fences and stopped all entry to the site so as to protect the birds nest then they came along and released a few pine martins 500 yards away you can imagine the result "MUPPETS"
They have released them all over the country at this stage including both slobs in Wexford so time will tell how much of an effect they will have on the bird populations down here I know plenty of duck have been taken from pens so far this year down our way.

Which "Wildlife Crowd" is this - Pine Martins have returned naturally to many areas after protection in the 60's, this has been well documented and has occured without any "introductions". Unlike mink they are a native species that has lived on this Island with other native species since at least the last ice-age. Its well known why the likes of Corncrakes are in trouble(the switch from Haymaking to intensive silage production in the last 60 years being the main cause) and has nothing to do with native Pine Martins.

PS: I accept they can cause problems occasionally for poultry owners though certainly not on the scale of mink/fox - any trapped Pine Martins in these circumstances should be handed to the local NPWS ranger, most in my experience take a reasonable view when it comes to relocating the animal which is usually the end of the matter.

wildlifeboy

I am unaware of any Pine Marten reintroduction programmes anywhere in the country. I am aware of tagging and population monitoring but that is it.

wildlifeboy

http://www.coford.ie/media/coford/content/publications/projectreports/cofordconnects/PineMarten.pdf

FOXHUNTER1

Birdnuts wrote: »

Which "Wildlife Crowd" is this

National parks and wildlife who else!
You'll be telling me next they haven't introduced Buzzards either.

I can't figure out how there were no pine martins down here last year and now there are dozens of them
It's a bit like the Adam & Eve story the just appeared one day I suppose.

Birdnuts

FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »

National parks and wildlife who else!
You'll be telling me next they haven't introduced Buzzards either.

.

Where are you getting this stuff from - Buzzards became extinct in the 1880's then recolinized this Island naturally from the 1950's. This too has been well documented:rolleyes:

FOXHUNTER1

Birdnuts wrote: »

Where are you getting this stuff from - Buzzards became extinct in the 1880's then recolinized this Island naturally from the 1950's. This too has been well documented:rolleyes:

http://www.coford.ie/media/coford/content/publications/projectreports/cofordconnects/PineMarten.pdf

Second last paragraph on the left hand side

The increase in the distribution of

pine martens occurred mainly from
core population areas. This
increase is probably the result of
reduced persecution, increased
afforestation that has increased the
habitat available to pine martens
and its connectivity, and also

through deliberate reintroductions.

Birdnuts

FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »

http://www.coford.ie/media/coford/content/publications/projectreports/cofordconnects/PineMarten.pdf

Second last paragraph on the left hand side

The increase in the distribution of

pine martens occurred mainly from

core population areas. This
increase is probably the result of
reduced persecution, increased
afforestation that has increased the
habitat available to pine martens
and its connectivity, and also

through deliberate reintroductions.

I would highlight the word "probably" here - this suggests that some animals were moved around by private individuals who may have trapped them by mistake. It certainly does not suggest or mention an organised state sponsored scheme and there is no mention of such a scheme in that link. If you could provide a link to such an NPWS scheme I would be interested.

PS: As I mentioned earlier the NPWS deals with animals that have been accidently trapped and they may "re-locate" these animals, but that is totally different from an official state-sponsored scheme like the re-intriduction of Red Squirrels etc.

landkeeper

we have been through this time and again, birdnuts .!you may be of the opinion that the buzzards relocated them selves quite merrily over the last number of years but there are those of us who have different views
i know this for certain through my own observations ,that the buzzards that started showing up around here were not 'wild' birds in the true sense of the meaning none i have ever seen outside of Ireland and that would include scotland and wales where all these supposed immigrants came from , would actively fly towards you meewing and wheeling over head on open pasture land and follow you through woodland constantly calling
now i have no problem with the reintroduction of any birds of prey i think it is fantastic to see them , the same with pine martens fantastic animals that are native to this island. what i would prefer is, that folk would be open about what is happening, the pine martens that crop up in the woods near me have little or no concern over the proximity to man again not what i have seen over the years in forestry in the west they are also considerably bigger ., again i suspect the hand of man

and fodda i try to provide the most secure facilities possible for both my domestic fowl and for game birds for release However the point i was trying to make was that making things secure against a pine marten is very difficult not impossible , and that that would make it mink and fox proof would not make it pm proof to be honest i would rather mink about than martens at least you can do something about them with a clear conscience
fine if you have a couple of dozen RIR hens build colditz for them it's a different ball game for game birds and such like
i seem to remember similar comments when we discussed foxes and lambs in the past :rolleyes:

FOXHUNTER1

Birdnuts wrote: »

I would highlight the word "probably" here - this suggests that some animals were moved around by private individuals who may have trapped them by mistake. It certainly does not suggest or mention an organised state sponsored scheme and there is no mention of such a scheme in that link. If you could provide a link to such an NPWS scheme I would be interested.

PS: As I mentioned earlier the NPWS deals with animals that have been accidently trapped and they may "re-locate" these animals, but that is totally different from an official state-sponsored scheme like the re-intriduction of Red Squirrels etc.

I honestly think a lot of this stuff is done on the quiet like a lot of other government run stuff.
But I'll agree to disagree for now.
If I find anything else I'll let you know.

wildlifeboy

wow if this is true i am amazed it hasnt been published or talked about. are you suggesting hand reared and released? sounds like it.

Birdnuts

landkeeper wrote: »

we have been through this time and again, birdnuts .!you may be of the opinion that the buzzards relocated them selves quite merrily over the last number of years but there are those of us who have different views
i know this for certain through my own observations ,that the buzzards that started showing up around here were not 'wild' birds in the true sense of the meaning none i have ever seen outside of Ireland and that would include scotland and wales where all these supposed immigrants came from , would actively fly towards you meewing and wheeling over head on open pasture land and follow you through woodland constantly calling
now i have no problem with the reintroduction of any birds of prey i think it is fantastic to see them , the same with pine martens fantastic animals that are native to this island. what i would prefer is, that folk would be open about what is happening, the pine martens that crop up in the woods near me have little or no concern over the proximity to man again not what i have seen over the years in forestry in the west they are also considerably bigger ., again i suspect the hand of man

:rolleyes:

No problem with differing views LK and its good that info on such matters is exchanged and discussed. I was just pointing to what is in the literature on these matters and what I hear from people more expert then myself. I've had similiar experieces with buzzards to yourself and generally found such birds to be younger, inexperieced birds - often not long out of the nest and like most fledgings are generally less wary of potential threats then adult birds.

Your observations indeed reminds me of a recent trip to rural Kenya where raptors like Kites and Vultures generally pay very little attention to people to the extent you can get very close, indeed some safari resorts allow visitors to feed the birds at very close proximity. I guess in Ireland up to recently we haven't been used to raptors much bigger then Kestrels or Hawks being about, so when a former species like a Buzzard returns after such a long absence, its naturally the subject of much comment and speculation as to its origins:)

fodda

landkeeper wrote: »

and fodda i try to provide the most secure facilities possible for both my domestic fowl and for game birds for release However the point i was trying to make was that making things secure against a pine marten is very difficult not impossible , and that that would make it mink and fox proof would not make it pm proof to be honest i would rather mink about than martens at least you can do something about them with a clear conscience
fine if you have a couple of dozen RIR hens build colditz for them it's a different ball game for game birds and such like
i seem to remember similar comments when we discussed foxes and lambs in the past :rolleyes:

You seem to think i am having a dig at you or i am being argumentative and i am not. I also sympathize with you but i believe that if you want to look after your stock then you have to spend the money to make their holding secure (this is the first thing you do), if not then you cant complain when things go wrong. In your case if you located your pheasant pen under a tree then that was your mistake. Maybe you had nowhere else? but even so, not as it now appears the best location.

Birdnuts

FOXHUNTER1 wrote: »

I honestly think a lot of this stuff is done on the quiet like a lot of other government run stuff.
But I'll agree to disagree for now.
If I find anything else I'll let you know.

Beleive me there are many organs of the state I have little or no faith in - but i think in general NPWS staff are decent people who are well trained on most aspects of the job. For many years now its been very hard to get a job with them without some sort of a degree in natural sciences. TBH I would be way more concerned and interested as to what individuals are responsible for releasing non-native species like Muntjac, chipmunks and racoons into the Irish countryside. We already know how mink came to invade our shores and i fear something similiar happening with some of these more recent exotic/illegal introductions:(

deerhunter1

wildlifeboy wrote: »

Really..Really? got any proof for your general, wide sweeping bull shine statement?

they are protected check wildlife act

landkeeper

you are being argumentative :rolleyes: i replied to another posters views mink re martens and one being worse than the other, i gave some of the experiences i have witnessed over the years and expressed my view through experience that mink /foxes are far easy fenced out than mr marten
anytime somebody comments on stock losses on this site be it chickens turkeys or lambs you reply with a smart quip about 'you need better fencing ' of course that is true but a,that's not what folk want to hear and b ,most of the time what you have linked to is totally impractical for everyday farming and fowl .
yes we can build averies out of steel mesh for fancy fowl or fence of acres for free ranging commercial flocks with multistrand electric fencing but most of the time the lads posting are keeping a few fowl or game birds on a small scale to supplement the household groceries or provide a bit of payback to the local gamebird population, i won't go into what you were suggesting for sheep flocks

fodda

No i'm not.......Oh yes you are!.........It's that time of the year Landkeeper:);)

Jeeez you are going back a bit on the sheep:eek:.........I will explain......At that time i had just come across a video on youtube where when prices for sheep were similar to what they are now the gathered their sheep up and protected them at lambing time because it was then and maybe now cost effective?

I did show it John at the time..........if it is still there i will post a link to it to prove that when prices are high enough that people will spend the cash.

Birdnuts

fodda wrote: »

No i'm not.......Oh yes you are!.........It's that time of the year Landkeeper:);)

Jeeez you are going back a bit on the sheep:eek:.........I will explain......At that time i had just come across a video on youtube where when prices for sheep were similar to what they are now the gathered their sheep up and protected them at lambing time because it was then and maybe now cost effective?

I did show it John at the time..........if it is still there i will post a link to it to prove that when prices are high enough that people will spend the cash.

When it comes to Foxes and lambs Fodda - lamping is yer only man:D;)

landkeeper

hahaha yea:D it's that time of year a nasty man just killed al the turkeys :cool:

daniels.ducks

OP as previous poster said, that is a pine martin. That's all you wanted to know?

IrishHomer

daniels.ducks wrote: »

OP as previous poster said, that is a pine martin. That's all you wanted to know?

Can anyone spell correctly the name of the animal?

It's Pine Marten, not Martin! :p:p:o

brianfrancis45

IrishHomer wrote: »

Can anyone spell correctly the name of the animal?

It's Pine Marten, not Martin! :p:p:o

Could be worse - could be Micheal Martin :eek:

johngalway

fodda wrote: »

I did show it John at the time..........if it is still there i will post a link to it to prove that when prices are high enough that people will spend the cash.

We've done this before x 1,000,000 and you're still wrong because you're still ignoring input prices and breed types. Give it a rest.

daniels.ducks

IrishHomer wrote: »

Can anyone spell correctly the name of the animal?

It's Pine Marten, not Martin! :p:p:o

My bad!