Motorway driving in Dublin chaotic

samsham

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIRjgfRJGdE

This idiot uses his camera phone while driving to point out how dangerous other are.

We drive up from Waterford on the new M9, it a great journey and safe. However as you get on the M7 and get closer to Dublin, driving behavior turn suicidal. Instead of being overtaking in the fast lane your over taking by nut job you can see prior to this in your rear mirror jumping around lanes behind you. He/she gets close and overtakes you on the inside as another fast object is trying to break the speed barrier as he passes you in the fast lane. Its crazy. it reminds me of some of the mental driving I have seen in the middle east or Asia. White van drivers have a particular reputation and from the M7 experience deservedly so. Either on the phone steering and overtaking with the one hand or taking too close a look at your rear end. When you get off the motorway and head for Bewley's hotel, the carriageway is like a scene from a demolition derby. No one care what lane there in, they will overtake undertake and when you arrive at the ramp at the old red cow junction. Idiots driving across three lanes because they were too impatient to get in the right lane further back. Simply madness.

kirving

Fast lane, whats that? ;-) Sorry.

Yea it's fairly mental on the M50 most mornings, with people often stopping in the inside lane and trying to barge their way up an off ramp rather than queue. Others, seeing a gap at the end of the queue squeeze in on the right doing about 80.

A diagram would explain more clearly, but it's common, especially at the Tallaght NB exit in the mornings. Someone will be killed there.

Hilly Bill

I agree but is it as bad as taking a video clip whilst driving? stopped or not its still careless. Before its mentioned, i dont buy that its dash mounted etc.

patwicklow

yeah and driving with music blaring out also.. call the kettle black:D

Carawaystick

The M7 ends at Naas, so there is no motorway driving as you get closer to Dublin.

Hilly Bill

Its a weird on there, the motorway is only 2 lane and then at naas inbound it goes to 3? It should be classed the other way

CIE

Only one solution. Build more motorways. Right?

Max Power1

CIE wrote: »

Only one solution. Build more motorways. enforce the rules on the existing ones, such as keep left

fyp

cormie

Samsham, I'm not 100% sure, but going by this line:

He/she gets close and overtakes you on the inside as another fast object is trying to break the speed barrier as he passes you in the fast lane.

It appears you may be part of the problem are you saying you're driving in the middle lane, causing the situation where cars can overtake you both on your left (the driving lane) and the right? The video posted shows an example of how driving (not overtaking) in the middle lane will cause problems.

The far left lane is the driving lane, all vehicles should be driving in this lane (not just HGV's etc), then the middle lane should be used for vehicles as they overtake a car in the far left and then join the far left lane again themselves, the far right lane should then be used by vehicles overtaking others who are currently in the middle lane, overtaking those in the far left, after the overtake manoeuvre, all vehicles should then return to the driving lane on the far left. This is not what happens and you have situations like the above, people cruising in the middle lane having to make swift exits when the realise they are 100m from the exit etc which is very dangerous but all down to bad lane discipline.

C-Shore

cormie wrote: »

Samsham, I'm not 100% sure, but going by this line:

He/she gets close and overtakes you on the inside as another fast object is trying to break the speed barrier as he passes you in the fast lane.

It appears you may be part of the problem are you saying you're driving in the middle lane, causing the situation where cars can overtake you both on your left (the driving lane) and the right? The video posted shows an example of how driving (not overtaking) in the middle lane will cause problems.

The far left lane is the driving lane, all vehicles should be driving in this lane (not just HGV's etc), then the middle lane should be used for vehicles as they overtake a car in the far left and then join the far left lane again themselves, the far right lane should then be used by vehicles overtaking others who are currently in the middle lane, overtaking those in the far left, after the overtake manoeuvre, all vehicles should then return to the driving lane on the far left. This is not what happens and you have situations like the above, people cruising in the middle lane having to make swift exits when the realise they are 100m from the exit etc which is very dangerous but all down to bad lane discipline.

If i had lots of money then I'd make this an advertisement everywhere possible! It's exactly what i wanted to say, then read this.

The worst place this happens is people merging northbound onto the m1 off the m50, where they merge into the middle lane even though the slipway actually brings them onto the left lane of the m1. I don't understand it and it makes it so difficult for people trying to be in the correct lane and/or get into the lanes for the airport.

Terrontress

C-Shore wrote: »

cormie wrote: »

Samsham, I'm not 100% sure, but going by this line:

He/she gets close and overtakes you on the inside as another fast object is trying to break the speed barrier as he passes you in the fast lane.

It appears you may be part of the problem are you saying you're driving in the middle lane, causing the situation where cars can overtake you both on your left (the driving lane) and the right? The video posted shows an example of how driving (not overtaking) in the middle lane will cause problems.

The far left lane is the driving lane, all vehicles should be driving in this lane (not just HGV's etc), then the middle lane should be used for vehicles as they overtake a car in the far left and then join the far left lane again themselves, the far right lane should then be used by vehicles overtaking others who are currently in the middle lane, overtaking those in the far left, after the overtake manoeuvre, all vehicles should then return to the driving lane on the far left. This is not what happens and you have situations like the above, people cruising in the middle lane having to make swift exits when the realise they are 100m from the exit etc which is very dangerous but all down to bad lane discipline.

If i had lots of money then I'd make this an advertisement everywhere possible! It's exactly what i wanted to say, then read this.

The worst place this happens is people merging northbound onto the m1 off the m50, where they merge into the middle lane even though the slipway actually brings them onto the left lane of the m1. I don't understand it and it makes it so difficult for people trying to be in the correct lane and/or get into the lanes for the airport.

I often make the best progress in the driving lane because those in the overtaking lanes seem to be the least able to drive. There is a mentality that there is a 'slow lane' and a 'fast lane' and nobody on a motorway wishes to go slowly.

When there is serious congestion, stick to the driving lane and those who want to go 'fast' will clear the lane for you.

BrianD

Driving in excess of the speed limit in the overtaking lane (3) and you're wondering why driving is so bad? Speedo shows over 100kmh in the opening shot and if I'm not mistaken, that stretch of road is 100kmh

corktina

this is not going to end well.

cormie

BrianD wrote: »

Driving in excess of the speed limit in the overtaking lane (3) and you're wondering why driving is so bad? Speedo shows over 100kmh in the opening shot and if I'm not mistaken, that stretch of road is 100kmh

That stretch is 100kmph, but driving in excess of this shouldn't make any difference to the flow if everyone was driving properly, it would be perfectly safe to exceed 100kmph on that road if people drove properly.

Just to note also, the red car seen in that video on the far left lane is perfectly able to pass drivers on their right as the lane they are in is the lane for the next exit (notice the hatchings on the line are much closer) which again, emphasises that the problem is simply down to the middle lane hoggers, but what's new there

Seth Brundle

Terrontress wrote: »

I often make the best progress in the driving lane because those in the overtaking lanes seem to be the least able to drive.

You are also breaking the law by passing on the left.

(FYI, I do it also)

ian_m

corktina wrote: »

this is not going to end well.

Dead end straight ahead! :pac:

C-Shore

Terrontress wrote: »

I often make the best progress in the driving lane because those in the overtaking lanes seem to be the least able to drive. There is a mentality that there is a 'slow lane' and a 'fast lane' and nobody on a motorway wishes to go slowly.

When there is serious congestion, stick to the driving lane and those who want to go 'fast' will clear the lane for you.

kbannon wrote: »

You are also breaking the law by passing on the left.

(FYI, I do it also)

Ha, I was going to say this but I was afraid people would give out.

Or the OP might complain :pac:

Terrontress

kbannon wrote: »

Terrontress wrote: »

I often make the best progress in the driving lane because those in the overtaking lanes seem to be the least able to drive.

You are also breaking the law by passing on the left.

(FYI, I do it also)

Surely if the M50 is crawling and the people in the overtaking lanes are going more slowly than those in the driving lane then it is not an offence?

My take on it has always been that, as long as I do not perform a manoeuvre to do so, i.e. change lanes, or else break the speed limit, if a person is in the overtaking lane beneath the speed limit then I am within my rights to go past them.

cormie

It's legal to do in slow moving (queueing) traffic. The speed of which isn't defined in law but in the likes of the above video, that's not slow moving traffic at all, that's just people in the wrong lane causing the traffic to move slower, which is the case mostly. Slow moving traffic would be for example, when there's actual stop start traffic jams and in this case, it's perfectly legal to overtake on the left. I try not to overtake on the left and would sooner flash the guy in the wrong lane. Sometimes, thankfully, it works

paddyland

What about when you approach a slow moving car in the first lane, and as you indicate right to overtake, THEY indicate right and pull right, expecting you to undertake?

What about people who indicate right, and move out to the middle lane, AFTER you have overtaken and moved back to the first lane?

What about people who do 90-100k in the first lane, and then slow down to 80k when they overtake? Then when you try to pass them, they speed up to 100k again?

What about people who happily do 70-80k in any lane, and then suddenly speed up like Mondello when anyone tries to pass them?

What about people you have to overtake at least four or five times inbound on the N7, because they keep speeding up and slowing down so much?

What about people who continually keep tapping their brake pedal in an empty traffic lane, with nothing only straight, empty road in front of them?

What about people who approach slowly in your right hand mirror, take an age to pass you, and just as they are ahead of your car, suddenly slow down in the outside lane, and fall back and back into the far distance behind, often with someone flashing them crazily from behind?

What about people who ease up beside you, and stay level with you in the next lane either side, slowing down when you do, and speeding up when you do?

What about people who catch up with you just as you approach a slow moving car, and then slow down as they pass, and match the speed of the slow car, trapping both lanes?

What about people who catch up on a lorry or bus on the speed limiter, overtake, pull in front, and then SLOW DOWN, forcing the heavy vehicle to slow down and maybe drop a gear too? Why overtake in the first place?

What about people who come down an entrance ramp at 40k, and then SLOW DOWN, when they realise nobody is going to come to a stop on the motorway to flash them in?

What about people driving inbound on the Naas Road at Joel's, in densely packed, weaving traffic, in front of heavy lorries, who JAM ON suddenly to a stop, to flash someone out of Joel's exit, while everyone else has to brake hard or swerve behind them?

Why is it that this behaviour is ENDEMIC as you approach Dublin on all the main thoroughfares, that this behaviour is the standard practice of about 80% of the motorists using these busy, dangerous motorways and dual carriageways?

Why is it that neither Conor Faughnan, nor Gay Byrne, nor Noel Brett, nor anyone involved in safe motoring campaigns, have anything at all to say on this matter? Is it policy that if we all slow down to 50k, that then everyone can drive as appallingly and ill educatedly as they like, and we will all be able to jam on in time?

Surely the emphasis should be on bringing the general driving standard UP across the board, rather than dumbing down whatever standards remain to the lowest common denominator?

celticbest

^^ Spot on.

If there's no money to be made then they do nothing.

C-Shore

Hahaha, all so true! I'm only laughing because I'm glad I'm not the only one with these experiences, still so annoying though :mad: some are far more common than the others, particularly these:

What about people who indicate right, and move out to the middle lane, AFTER you have overtaken and moved back to the first lane?
What about people who happily do 70-80k in any lane, and then suddenly speed up like Mondello when anyone tries to pass them?
What about people who come down an entrance ramp at 40k, and then SLOW DOWN, when they realise nobody is going to come to a stop on the motorway to flash them in?

I use cruise control on my car on the motorway, and so often it happens that people overtake me, and then I end up overtaking them a few hundred meters later and then the process continues in circles, even though I'm on cruise control. Does everyone drive up and down in their speeds on motorways?

My reckoning is that because you can get a licence without having been on a motorway, that this is where the problem lies.

I think it was when I was in Australia, about 8 years ago though; that they fined people €1000 I think, for being in the outside lane when not overtaking.
There should be a fine like that here.
Edit: $1000, sorry!

foggy_lad

samsham wrote: »

We drive up from Waterford on the new M9, it a great journey and safe. However as you get on the M7 and get closer to Dublin, driving behavior turn suicidal. Instead of being overtaking in the fast lane your over taking by nut job you can see prior to this in your rear mirror jumping around lanes behind you. He/she gets close and overtakes you on the inside as another fast object is trying to break the speed barrier as he passes you in the fast lane. Its crazy. it reminds me of some of the mental driving I have seen in the middle east or Asia. White van drivers have a particular reputation and from the M7 experience deservedly so. Either on the phone steering and overtaking with the one hand or taking too close a look at your rear end. When you get off the motorway and head for Bewley's hotel, the carriageway is like a scene from a demolition derby. No one care what lane there in, they will overtake undertake and when you arrive at the ramp at the old red cow junction. Idiots driving across three lanes because they were too impatient to get in the right lane further back. Simply madness.

Then of course there is the likes of bus Eireann who in their immense lack of wisdom have coaches very quickly cutting across 5 lanes of busy traffic from the point they come out of the M50 Red Cow interchange on the Naas road to get across to the entrance to the luas park and ride,

This is a dangerous manoeuvre which will lead to accidents and injuries IMHO. Busses are cutting into very busy lanes of traffic cutting up other road users and backed by Bus Eireann and the NTA who it seems want the luas park and ride stop used for people going to citywest.

Seth Brundle

Terrontress wrote: »

Surely if the M50 is crawling and the people in the overtaking lanes are going more slowly than those in the driving lane then it is not an offence?

My take on it has always been that, as long as I do not perform a manoeuvre to do so, i.e. change lanes, or else break the speed limit, if a person is in the overtaking lane beneath the speed limit then I am within my rights to go past them.

Your take on it is not within the law though and a garda can and would pull you for it!

paddyland wrote: »

...
What about people who come down an entrance ramp at 40k, and then SLOW DOWN, when they realise nobody is going to come to a stop on the motorway to flash them in?
...

I agree with your points. However, there is a belief out there seemingly held by most drivers that traffic merging onto a motorway has right of way. I'm not sure where these idiots got that belief but it is rampant.

C-Shore wrote: »

I use cruise control on my car on the motorway, and so often it happens that people overtake me, and then I end up overtaking them a few hundred meters later and then the process continues in circles, even though I'm on cruise control. Does everyone drive up and down in their speeds on motorways?

On the M50, turning on cruise control can be a waste of time as invariably you will have to slow down for some muppet tootling along.

C-Shore wrote: »

My reckoning is that because you can get a licence without having been on a motorway, that this is where the problem lies.

I dunno - I think people on the whole here cannot drive full stop and its not just limited to motorways.

C-Shore

kbannon wrote: »

I agree with your points. However, there is a belief out there seemingly held by most drivers that traffic merging onto a motorway has right of way. I'm not sure where these idiots got that belief but it is rampant.

I never found people to have a belief like that, I probably just haven't met them. I know there's no right of way for traffic merging but I do think thought that there needs to be a balance between a certain amount of conviction from those trying to merge and a certain amount of courtesy from those already on the motorway.
Slowing down on the down ramp just holds everybody up, particularly because when the person does merge they slow down traffic on the motorway.
If the driver meets the speed of traffic then merging shouldn't be the issue so many people make it.

kbannon wrote: »

On the M50, turning on cruise control can be a waste of time as invariably you will have to slow down for some muppet tootling along.

Ha I know :rolleyes: I just meant on the M1 at non rush hour times. I'm lucky enough to only really travel outside rush hour; and that's where I get people overtaking and slowing down while I'm at a constant speed.

kbannon wrote: »

I dunno - I think people on the whole here cannot drive full stop and its not just limited to motorways.

I've never driven in another country so I can't really compare to other countries, but in comparison to the rules of the road, people here can't drive.
Although I do miss in Finland where pedestrians would actually obey traffic lights.
That was good for both preventing people walking in front of you as they like, and also that people don't press the button to cross, cross before it goes green and then prance down the road while I sit in the car at a red light with nobody crossing :mad:

Terrontress

kbannon wrote: »

Terrontress wrote: »

Surely if the M50 is crawling and the people in the overtaking lanes are going more slowly than those in the driving lane then it is not an offence?

My take on it has always been that, as long as I do not perform a manoeuvre to do so, i.e. change lanes, or else break the speed limit, if a person is in the overtaking lane beneath the speed limit then I am within my rights to go past them.

Your take on it is not within the law though and a garda can and would pull you for it!

Luckily proactive Gardai on motorways are only the preserve of fly on wall documentaries rather than a reality.

When I travel along the nearly empty Dunleer bypass at 120 km/h and the guy sitting in the outside lane throws on the anchors from his previous 110 to 90 because there is a speed camera there, there is no way I am going to brake as well and wait for him to get back up to speed or else pull out behind him.

Two wrongs don't make a right but I know what I think the motorway Gardai should concern themselves with!

Hilly Bill

There was a thread with the same comments made a while back. Possibly started by the same poster. Do we need another.?

Terrontress

Hilly Bill wrote: »

There was a thread with the same comments made a while back. Possibly started by the same poster. Do we need another.?

is there a process for application to be mod you can go for or will you just hang around here making comments like this?

Seth Brundle

Terrontress wrote: »

Luckily proactive Gardai on motorways are only the preserve of fly on wall documentaries rather than a reality.

There are plenty of unmarked cars floating around with ANPR.
You won't notice them before they notice you!

Hilly Bill

Terrontress wrote: »

is there a process for application to be mod you can go for or will you just hang around here making comments like this?

no need to be snotty about it. And its one comment not comments. Ive a right to post like you have. Its a same thread with the same posts made by the same heads and thanked by the same posters .

testarossa40

paddyland, you've thoroughly itemised ever single infuriating gripe I experience with motorway driving standards every single day - I should be glad I'm not alone, but...