Drink driving question?

happyfish

Hey, I have a question that I'm mainly wondering about out of curiosity because this came up in conversation the other day:D
If the fully licensed driver in the car with me is over the limit , can they be prosecuted for drink driving?
I wouldn't be that comfortable doing this anyway but I'm literally just curious as to what the law is!

Alanstrainor

EDIT: Was wrong on this one, see below.

mike3inksa

happyfish wrote: »

Hey, I have a question that I'm mainly wondering about out of curiosity because this came up in conversation the other day:D
If the fully licensed driver in the car with me is over the limit , can they be prosecuted for drink driving?
I wouldn't be that comfortable doing this anyway but I'm literally just curious as to what the law is!

Straight answer Yes if you are a learner driver in control of the car and the sponsor has a full licence

I know this isn't the UK but it appears they are indeed liable over there

http://www.helpingldrivers.com/law/supervisor.htm

Other Restrictions

When you are supervising a learner driver, you have the same legal responsibilities as if you were driving. For example, the drink drive laws and the ban on using mobile phone applies to anyone who is supervising a learner - you are deemed to be in control of the vehicle.

which is interesting

i know that doesn't answer the question on our law though sorry

Dawn Rider

I thought they brought that in when they tightened up the rules regarding unaccompanied learners.

MascotDec85

Let's put it this way, if a learner driver speeds and has an accompanying driver (or ADI) with them the learner will not gets the points or fine, the accompanying driver will as they are deemed to be in control also and have a full licence.

I'd imagine drink driving is no different. The "passenger" should be able to drive the car in the event of the pupil getting into difficulties and they can't if they've just had 10 pints of Bud, 6 vodka and red bulls and 4 Baby Guinness'

Alanstrainor

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Let's put it this way, if a learner driver speeds and has an accompanying driver (or ADI) with them the learner will not gets the points or fine, the accompanying driver will as they are deemed to be in control also and have a full licence.

I'd imagine drink driving is no different. The "passenger" should be able to drive the car in the event of the pupil getting into difficulties and they can't if they've just had 10 pints of Bud, 6 vodka and red bulls and 4 Baby Guinness'

That is interesting, and strange at the same time.

I would have assumed in the case of the OPs question that, the learner driver would be considered unaccompanied if the accompanying driver was over the limit. As I said though, that was merely an assumption on my part.

I was unaware that the accompanying driver would be held responsible for speeding or similar charges. In a situation where a normal, non dual control car is being used, is the accompanying driver really deemed to be in control? I would have thought not.

MascotDec85

Alanstrainor wrote: »

That is interesting, and strange at the same time.

I would have assumed in the case of the OPs question that, the learner driver would be considered unaccompanied if the accompanying driver was over the limit. As I said though, that was merely an assumption on my part.

I was unaware that the accompanying driver would be held responsible for speeding or similar charges. In a situation where a normal, non dual control car is being used, is the accompanying driver really deemed to be in control? I would have thought not.

Well, you can be charged/prosecuted with being in possession of a motor vehicle when under the influence even if you are sat in it with keys in your possession. An accompanying driver should be in a fit state to drive the car

Wishbone Ash

MascotDec85 wrote: »

The "passenger" should be able to drive the car in the event of the pupil getting into difficulties and they can't if they've just had 10 pints of Bud, 6 vodka and red bulls and 4 Baby Guinness'

I'd have to disagree with you there. If the accompanied driver isn't fit to drive then the learner would be deemed to be "unaccompanied".


Regarding possession of keys. The Gardai would have to convince the court that the person intended to drive. Their lordships aren't that easily convinced. I've heard about "having the keys" for many years but I've yet to hear of anyone done under a Section 49 for anything other than actual driving on a public road.

happyfish

Haha its probably best to stay away from being the designated driver for a while
its seems like kinda a confusing issue though I got the same reaction asking people in real life no one is sure!

alfman

My brother in law is a guard and I am a learner driver and I asked him this question last week.

The answer is yes the accompanying driver cannot be over the limit and they can be prosecuted if they are. He said that the accompanying driver needs to be able to take over from the learner at any time as the learner could have a panic attack and not be able to drive.

GowlBag

A brother of a guy I work with was done for "having the keys" on him in the car with a few jars. He was waiting for a taxi in his car right outside the pub when the Gardai rolled up. He wasn't even sitting in the drivers seat. He was put off the road for a year.

DriversEd

just a quick question on the original issue. if as one reply says, a guard would prosecute an accompanying driver as 'drunk driving'. what if someone takes a lift home with someone, is it the done thing now to ask to see the driving license of the good samaritan? if i were offered a lift as i was after having a few drinks, i would naturally just accept the kind offer wouldn't you? and would i then inadvertently have accepted the role of 'accompanying driver'?

ResearchWill

I have looked at the 2010 Act, and cant find anything that makes it an offence for anyone other than the driver. A vital ingredient for the new section 4 (and the old section 49) is actual driving and for section 5 being in charge with an intention to drive.

I would also think to hold a passenger guilty of drink driving with out the necessary mens rea, could fall foul of the constitution. But if anyone can point me to legislation that makes it an offence I would be delighted to hear.

Alanstrainor

GowlBag wrote: »

A brother of a guy I work with was done for "having the keys" on him in the car with a few jars. He was waiting for a taxi in his car right outside the pub when the Gardai rolled up. He wasn't even sitting in the drivers seat. He was put off the road for a year.

I've heard that story as well, but this situation is completely different. The person accompanying the driver is a passenger at the end of the day. They are no in control of the car, and there is no intention to drive.

The accompanying passenger does not have to be able to drive the car, there is no requirement for the passenger to have insurance on the car in question.

Wishbone Ash

alfman wrote: »

My brother in law is a guard and I am a learner driver and I asked him this question last week.

Several members of my extended family are Gardai and I know many others. In my experience they have a limited knowledge of road traffic regulations and tend to believe folklore/urban myths etc. I was talking to a Garda Sergeant recently who was heading off to tour the USA by motorcycle. He has a Learner Permit only but stated that that heard it was fine for a motorbike in the US!

alfman wrote:

The answer is yes the accompanying driver cannot be over the limit and they can be prosecuted if they are. He said that the accompanying driver needs to be able to take over from the learner at any time as the learner could have a panic attack and not be able to drive.

In Irish law the onus is generally on the driver of a vehicle to ensure that the vehicle, its driver and any passengers are complying with the law. I just can't see how an "accompanied" driver can be done for being over the limit. There is no requirement for them to enter into any written legal transaction when they act as an accompanied driver. What's to stop them, if stopped, from merely saying that they are just an ordinary passenger in the vehicle? Are passengers now required to have a driving licence with them? As has been said, they are not required to be insured to drive the vehicle. Suppose the person acting as an accompanied driver has a broken left arm in a cast. If the vehicle has manual transmission they wont be able to physically drive it. What could they be charged with? At the end of the day the driver can only be deemed to be driving unaccompanied.