Ford Focus diesel or petrol?

mac_attack

Hi

Looking for a bit advice on what ford focus to buy have in the region of 10K to spend. I have my mind set on getting a ford focus, preferabbly an 08 one.
Just cant decide on wheither to get a 1.6 diesel or 1.6 petrol, would consider the 1.4 petrol but heard the car can be a bit heavy for this size engine.
Im not sure how my yearly mileage is going to work out at but reckon below average, city driving, up and down to between Dublin and Drogheda at weekends.

In my mind the pros and cons are:

Diesel
Cheaper tax, better mpg, better resale value

Petrol
Cheaper to buy, higher spec for my money, lower mileage

What do you guys reckon which is the better option?

shamwari

Right car, wrong engine. 1.8TDCi is your man

Henry Ford III

1.6 petrol is probably best on lowish annual mileage.

1.6 Ti-VCT is 15bhp stronger, and a small bit lighter on fuel, but is a rare enough find, and in the real world not that much better than the ordinary 1.6 petrol.

George Dalton

I'm with shamwari on this one. If it was my money I would be buying a 1.8TDCI.

R.O.R

I much prefer the power delivery of the 1.6Tdci rather than the old 1.8Tdci unit, even though it's less power.

Decent spin up the M1 at the weekends should keep it running well.

George Dalton

I much prefer the lack of turbo failure of the 1.8 personally

EPM

And dpf!

mac_attack

George Dalton wrote: »

I much prefer the lack of turbo failure of the 1.8 personally

"and dpf"

To the 1.8 Diesels give much trouble? Was considering one as the insurance and tax aernt affected by the difference between the 1.6 and 1.8 too much to put me off buying a high spec 1.8 if I foudn a good deal.

George Dalton

In my experience the 1.8 is a much more reliable engine than the 1.6. The 1.6 is ok if serviced very regularly (at 15,000km intervals max) with good quality oil but lets face it not many people actually do that. The old 1.8 may not be too advanced in the technology department but it is certainly long lasting and capable of taking a lot of abuse. I drive a 2003 1.8 TDDI Focus van at work every day and there is no way I would change it for a newer model 1.6. When the time comes to change I will be looking for either a 1.8 Focus or a 1.9 Golf.

mullingar

1.6 Tdci is a much better drive than the 1.8. The 1.8 has a very narrow power band and runs out of puff to soon. The 1.6 has a much broader power band.

Get the 110hp 1.6 , make sure you put the right oil in and you will be fine. if the dpf blocks, just delete it and remap it.

And I'm biased, we have a 1.6 tdci Focus, pdf deleted and remapped to 129hp, one quick car :cool::cool:

Plug

mullingar wrote: »

1.6 Tdci is a much better drive than the 1.8. The 1.8 has a very narrow power band and runs out of puff to soon. The 1.6 has a much broader power band.

Get the 110hp 1.6 , make sure you put the right oil in and you will be fine. if the dpf blocks, just delete it and remap it.

And I'm biased, we have a 1.6 tdci Focus, pdf deleted and remapped to 129hp, one quick car :cool::cool:

I agree with you.





Now to reliability:
1.6 TCDI, turbo failures are only caused by not get it serviced, the injector can seals leak and the intercooler can split.

1.8 TCDI, dualmass flywheel failure guaranteed.

Also note that not all 110bhp 1.6 TCDI's have a DPF.
The 1.6 does not give flywheel trouble at all(very rare).


Saying all that, if you don't do high mileage get the petrol 1.6 or 1.6 Ti-VCT. Avoid the 1.4 at all costs, it will just spoil a great little car.

bazz26

Plug wrote: »

I agree with you.





Now to reliability:
1.6 TCDI, turbo failures are only caused by not get it serviced, the injector can seals leak and the intercooler can split.

1.8 TCDI, dualmass flywheel failure guaranteed.

Also note that not all 110bhp 1.6 TCDI's have a DPF.
The 1.6 does not give flywheel trouble at all(very rare).


Saying all that, if you don't do high mileage get the petrol 1.6 or 1.6 Ti-VCT. Avoid the 1.4 at all costs, it will just spoil a great little car.

You sure about that. My understanding was that the 90bhp 1.6 TDCi didn't have a DPF but the 110bhp did.

The 1.8 TDCi didn't have a DPF either but made up for it by eating DMFs.

OP, if you are doing less than 18k miles a year and city driving then buying a modern diesel is a false economy, the small savings at the pump can potentially be erased by the cost of replacing a DPF or DMF.

Plug

bazz26 wrote: »

You sure about that. My understanding was that the 90bhp 1.6 TDCi didn't have a DPF but the 110bhp did.

The 1.8 TDCi didn't have a DPF either but made up for it by eating DMFs.

They do exist but a are very rare, only working on one yesterday. It was a 05 so maybe the first few 110bhp models done without the DPF. I must say it was a very nippy car and it had over 230km!

As for the DPF on the 1.8's I just don't no. But im nearly 100% sure I've seen one on a Netherlands Galaxy. It must of been one of the last built with that engine to meet Euro 5 emission regulations or else I was getting mixed up. Anyway I could have seen only one or I just didn't see it at all:pac:

DMF on them 1.8's, your going to get a max of 110km out of it.

mustang01

diesel or petrol ? very hard choice ! but for a start you've mad the best one in choosing the focus because they are a great drive ! always love gettn behind da wheel of a focus when get da chance

if you do low to average mileage and not too interested in performance then the petrol is your best choice because you will have less running cost due to a lot of problems that come with modern common rail diesels.

if you do a lot of miles and like da bita umph from a turbo when u put down the right foot then the diesel is your best option -
the 1.8 tdci is by far the best because its ford's own engine and is the very reliable and has good power.

the 1.6 is a peugeot/citroen derived unit and gives a fair bit of trouble.

happy motering whichever one you choose !

Littlehorny

All good advice so far, so my only 2 bits to you op is DO NOT GET THE 1.4 PETROL! It is depressing to drive it is that slow.

TheBody

Littlehorny wrote: »

All good advice so far, so my only 2 bits to you op is DO NOT GET THE 1.4 PETROL! It is depressing to drive it is that slow.

I've a 1.4 petrol. Big mistake. Just DRINKS petrol. Slow as hell too.

mullingar

mustang01 wrote: »

the 1.8 tdci is by far the best because its ford's own engine and is the very reliable and has good power.

the 1.6 is a peugeot/citroen derived unit and gives a fair bit of trouble.

happy motering whichever one you choose !

The 1.8 is big weakness with mileage on it as the DMF is near guaranteed to fail.

The 1.6 weakness is poor servicing. If this engine is serviced on time with the right oil, its a much better engine than the 1.8.

If the 1.6 was bad, why is this peugeot/citroen engine also found in Fords, Volvo, Mazdas, BMW minis, Suzuki????

The 1.6 is an excellent well proven engine

mustang01

mullingar wrote: »

The 1.8 is big weakness with mileage on it as the DMF is near guaranteed to fail.

The 1.6 weakness is poor servicing. If this engine is serviced on time with the right oil, its a much better engine than the 1.8.

If the 1.6 was bad, why is this peugeot/citroen engine also found in Fords, Volvo, Mazdas, BMW minis, Suzuki????

The 1.6 is an excellent well proven engine

there is no big weakness to the ford 1.8 tdci engine, dmf is drivetrain part !

any decent mechanic will tell you about all the problems with the 1.6 diesel, only reason ford using it is its cost effective, cost far to much for ford to design and develop a new 1.6 diesel engine from scratch. even ford chiefs are on record as sayn it was one of there worst decisioms to use the french engine !

if you buying a petrol then the 1.6 is best option, 1.4 to small for the focus

EPM

Have Ford chiefs said that?

mustang01

EPM wrote: »

Have Ford chiefs said that?

so so many complaints and unsatisfied customers and most due to the 1.6 peugeot/citroen engine ! when it comes to anything french in cars, run a mile !

EPM

mustang01 wrote: »

so so many complaints and unsatisfied customers and most due to the 1.6 peugeot/citroen engine ! when it comes to anything french in cars, run a mile !

And which Ford chief said that?

For Forks Sake

mustang01 wrote: »

so so many complaints and unsatisfied customers and most due to the 1.6 peugeot/citroen engine ! when it comes to anything french in cars, run a mile !

Oh noes .. *runs outside to burn Volvo S40 in driveway*

EPM

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Oh noes .. *runs outside to burn Volvo S40 in driveway*

Diesel won't burn easily!

bazz26

mustang01 wrote: »

so so many complaints and unsatisfied customers and most due to the 1.6 peugeot/citroen engine ! when it comes to anything french in cars, run a mile !

Whatever about the rest of their cars the French always made great diesel engines. I had 2 cars with that 1.6 diesel engine, a Focus and a S40. Despite having to replace a DPF on the S40 (which is not part of the engine) these engines have never given a day's trouble.

sk8board

we've got the Focus 1.6 petrol (got new in Jan '07), returns 32-35mpg, mainly city driving.

on the motorway at 120pmkh, the focus won't go over 40mpg. I've never seen it anyhow.

engine is a bit shouty without much in the way of acceleration, although it works well with the gearbox and is miles better than the 1.4. Wife loves it anyhow (I'll stick to my DSG Gti!).

also, for low mileage drivers & and with diesel price on parity with petrol, the 2nd hand ones will be value. A 1.6 petrol '07 is probably worth no more than 7k these days, even with the Zetec Connection spec (don't get any other spec in pre-08)

denis086

Ive a 09 1.6 tdci focus im averaging 48mpg motorway driving with some back roads thrown in. I couldnt call them economy runs either to be fair to her. Ive only had her a little less than 6 mths and ive put 9000mls on her and hasnt had any bother but she shouldnt be with only 34000mls on it probably jinxed it now :rolleyes: its a little dead for over taking without having to drop the gear right foot then attempt it is my only problem with it but the ride is excellent to be fair on bad roads

shamwari

Just to thrown another tuppence worth or two into this debate. The later 1.8TDCi from around 2008 does have a DPF in them. My brother had one (no issues at all with it) and the car does not need toping up with EOLYS fluid like the 1.6 DPF.

Plug mentioned above the some earlier 110bhp don't have a DPF and again that is true. I don't have the Ford TSB to hand but certainly there was a run of models produced early on Valencia which didn't have them, but IIRC they became standard issue on builds from around Feb 2005 onwards.

The DV6 (1.6) TDCi engine is reliable IF it is looked after. By that I mean no missed or delayed services and use of the correct oil is essential. I have found that the correct spec (low ash) oil from Ford is not massively expensive, and certainly cheaper than buying the VAG spec oil for their TDI's

My wife has a CMax with the 1.6 for the last 4 years, and the engine itself runs fine and delivers around 45mpg in mixed driving. I service it for her every 7.5K miles using correct oil and filters. At it's last service, I replaced the turbo oil feed and return pipes (an awful pig of a job if ever there was one). These can clog if the car has not be correctly serviced, particularly as there is a banjo bolt / assembly on these pipes which contain a microfilter. If these pipes or that microfilter clogs then the turbo will be starved of oil and will rapidly fail. I split open the old pipes after I removed them and there was no evidence of clogging. Still though, what price peace of mind

This car did have some problems in its first 18 months of ownership, notably

• EGR valve failed after 1 week (done under warranty)
• Alternator failure (replaced by me by exchange unit was over €300)
• DPF pressure sensor fault (sensor was ok but its hose was damaged, and hose was only sold as part of sensor assembly, making it comparatively expensive at around €110)
• MAF contaminated with oil. Issue covered in a Ford TSB and PCM required software update using IDS. Fault cured thereafter.

Apart from these and the usual consumables, nothing else has been needed. The car has covered nearly 60000 miles in four years and apart from the above, has run faultlessly.

Personally I prefer the 1.8. It started out life as the old Endura-D and was bored out to 1.8 and had the common rail system plumbed onto it. It is a solid reliable proven powerplant and is tolerant of hard driving and abuse. If my wifes car had this engine, I would not be as well minded as the 1.6 because I would be confident that it wouldn't need the extra TLC. The DMF on early 1.8's did give plenty of trouble but again revisions made in the later run of Focus may well have seen the DMF upgraded, and perhaps more reliable.

The Focus is a nice car, drives great, is economical and quick, irrespective of whatever diesel engine is in it. Personally. I like the Fiat Bravo M-Jet.....:P

George Dalton

Great post shamwari, I agree with you completely, except for the bit about the Fiat

shamwari

How dare you!!

The Bravo doesn't handle or ride as well as the focus, and is a bit tighter inside, but seriously, the Fiat engine beats the Ford unit into next week.

dr.fuzzenstein

Well, I've had an 04 Focus van, an 09 Transit Connect and currently drive an 06 Focus CMax.
The 04 had the 1.8 TDDI and the two others the 1.8 TDCI.
I must have put about half a million kilometers on all these cars combined over 7 years and never had a single thing go wrong with them, in fact my CMax has 210k km on it and has so far not chewed it's flywheel.
I think there's always spook and horror stories going round about DPF's (never had the pleasure), injectors, turbos, DMF's, etc... but in real life these cars are very reliable.
+1 on the Fiat.
Once got a rental car, a bravo 1.9 diesel with 120 bhp, it was awesome, liked it better than my Fords, good pull out of it and I had it just a tad over 220 km/h on the Autobahn.
That was fun!

shamwari

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well, I've had an 04 Focus van, an 09 Transit Connect and currently drive an 06 Focus CMax.
The 04 had the 1.8 TDDI and the two others the 1.8 TDCI.
I must have put about half a million kilometers on all these cars combined over 7 years and never had a single thing go wrong with them, in fact my CMax has 210k km on it and has so far not chewed it's flywheel.
I think there's always spook and horror stories going round about DPF's (never had the pleasure), injectors, turbos, DMF's, etc... but in real life these cars are very reliable.
+1 on the Fiat.
Once got a rental car, a bravo 1.9 diesel with 120 bhp, it was awesome, liked it better than my Fords, good pull out of it and I had it just a tad over 220 km/h on the Autobahn.
That was fun!

The only thing that gave grief on the TDDI's was the controller module on injection pump failing. APart from that, it was absolutely bullet proof.

Same experience with the Bravo on the Italian Autostrada from Turin back to the Alps. It absolutely flew. Great looking car with a fab engine!

maidhc

I had a 1.8TDCi Focus Mk1, and my mother has a new Focus with the 1.6HDI engine.

The 1.6 is a far nicer powerplant. It feels like a petrol with progressive power delivery, the 1.8 had about 1,000 rpm of power from 1700 to 2700. The 1.8 was a good engine, but needed a DMF. The EGR valve was replaced before I got the car, and needed to be replaced again when I disposed of it.

I wouldn't have any fear of the 1.6HDI, they power every second car in mainland Europe and PSA have a great reputation for making reliable diesels.

I suspect PSA engines are being built in Dagenham now anyway!

woodoo

Petrol is 1cent cheaper than diesel in my local forecourt now. Its no longer as black and white which engine to go for. If you are not doing big mileage go petrol.

shamwari

maidhc wrote: »

I wouldn't have any fear of the 1.6HDI, they power every second car in mainland Europe and PSA have a great reputation for making reliable diesels.

I would agree PROVIDED the engine has been serviced properly.

here.from.day.1

This has gone on a bit of a tangent about the diesel engines (shocking given the Irish passion for a diesel Ford ) but to sum up, as the OP will be doing substantially less than average mileage the best choice would be to go for a well spec'ed petrol model?

R.O.R

here.from.day.1 wrote: »

This has gone on a bit of a tangent about the diesel engines (shocking given the Irish passion for a diesel Ford ) but to sum up, as the OP will be doing substantially less than average mileage the best choice would be to go for a well spec'ed petrol model?

I'd usually agree, if it was going to be constant stop/start driving, but the OP will be doing Dublin--->Drogheda every weekend. The 25-30 minute spin up the M1 should be more than enough to clear the pipes on a diesel.

mac_attack

Thanks for all the replies.

Im really considering the petrol 1.6 as itcan be bought alot cheaper and I can keep the rest of my money for a rainy day. However apparently the 1.6 petrol can seem a bit weedy in terms of power. Has anyone had any experience driving one, how does it compare to the 1.6 diesel?

EPM

mac_attack wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies.

Im really considering the petrol 1.6 as itcan be bought alot cheaper and I can keep the rest of my money for a rainy day. However apparently the 1.6 petrol can seem a bit weedy in terms of power. Has anyone had any experience driving one, how does it compare to the 1.6 diesel?

If you get a Ghia or Titanium spec manual 1.6 it has a more powerful 1.6 petrol that is more than enough for the car.

Henry Ford III

EPM wrote: »

If you get a Ghia or Titanium spec manual 1.6 it has a more powerful 1.6 petrol that is more than enough for the car.

Yep, but the "ordinary" 1.6 has only 15bhp less, and is still plenty good enough. I've owned and run both engines btw.

Plug

I have a nearly 12 year old Focus 1.6 petrol and its not much slower than the new 1.6 diesels. For your type of mileage a petrol is a much better option, but as said ten million times avoid the 1.4.

The ghia's and titanium's have the vvt 1.6, its more powerful and more economical.