SIPTU's sticky fingers

n97 mini

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/siptu-warned-to-co-operate-with-inquiries-into-bank-account-532333.html

Over €1.15 million missing, spent on junkets by the HSE and SIPTU, as reported elsewhere.

It's hard to believe that state agencies can just hand money to trades unions.

Should SIPTU be forced to return this money?

Gumbo

n97 mini wrote: »

Should SIPTU be forced to return this money?

yes they should. they have alot of private/public sector members that are struggling to keep heads above water and yet their union can spend so blatently.

although if the official trips can be verified then even without receipts the approx cost of said trip can be estimated and thus reducing the amount of money "missing".

BeeDI

kceire wrote: »

yes they should. they have alot of private/public sector members that are struggling to keep heads above water and yet their union can spend so blatently.

although if the official trips can be verified then even without receipts the approx cost of said trip can be estimated and thus reducing the amount of money "missing".

Heard John McGuinness, chairman of Dail, public accounts committee interviewd by Matt Cooper this evening.

Apparently the bottom line goes something like this.

€1.2 million gone missing from the account.
Two separate cheques for €190k each which should have been lodged to this slush fund account, were never actually lodged. They have been cashed, but nobody knows where. That's on top of the €1.2 mill.

SIPTU, refused to cooperate with the Dail committee, to help resolve these matters.

Public accounts committee, have now told SIPTU, that it will invoke section ten of the act, to compel SIPTU, to cooperate.

This could get real, real interesting yet. I'd say there is some stained underware at this juncture.

Makes you wonder, where all the members contributions, actually end up.

n97 mini

I hope SIPTU are sued if they don't return the missing money voluntarily.

This is a piss take. If the money had been given to Ryanair the court proceedings would have started already.

RichardAnd

Interesting language that these (all too frequent) reports use. They might say "unauthorised", "misappropriated" or something like that but I wonder what the penchant for synonyms must be exercised. Why not use the real word for such antics; Stealing.

Jaysoose

RichardAnd wrote: »

Interesting language that these (all too frequent) reports use. They might say "unauthorised", "misappropriated" or something like that but I wonder what the penchant for synonyms must be exercised. Why not use the real word for such antics; Stealing.

Possibly because when it comes to public money being wasted and missapropritaed anything goes, they know there will be no real investigation into this by the powers that be and it will be swept under the carpet. Basically there will be the usual lip service paid and the same spoofers will remain in the same positions.

Can somebody explain why the Gardai are not involved yet? it seems fairly straight forward money has vanished from this "account" with no record of who lodged the money or where it went.

antoobrien

RichardAnd wrote: »

Why not use the real word for such antics; Stealing.

It would be particularly embarrassing to say a sum e.g. the two cheques, was stolen, if the documentation "reappeared" up in the future. It'd also leave the person(s) that made the statement open to accusations of slander and defamation if things are proved to the contrary.

It's much safer to use softer words, which are less inflammatory like unauthorized, simply to cover their own rears.

Wertz

BeeDI wrote: »

Two separate cheques for €190k each which should have been lodged to this slush fund account, were never actually lodged. They have been cashed, but nobody knows where. That's on top of the €1.2 mill.

I'm sorry but what in the hell? Isn't our banking system set up to be able to follow transactions like these? How the hell do you cash (or lodge, or spend) cheques of this amount without a substantial electronic and paper trail to lead back to the transaction time, date and place and most likely who was presenting it?
If this were a petty fraud case in the district or circuit court, then the prosecuting gardaí would be able to tell the judge, when where and how cheques were lodged or cashed...and you can bet the money involved would be a mere fraction of the sums talked about here.

This is nothing short of embezzlement, fraud and downright theft and should be followed up in the same way as any lesser case of missing public money would be, such as overpayment of social welfare entitlements.

As for SIPTU refusing to cooperate? Arrest someone...never mind this cooperation nonsense.

antoobrien

Wertz wrote: »

I'm sorry but what in the hell? Isn't our banking system set up to be able to follow transactions like these? How the hell do you cash (or lodge, or spend) cheques of this amount without a substantial electronic and paper trail to lead back to the transaction time, date and place and most likely who was presenting it?

I'm not defending anybody here but:

The problem in this case is that SIPTU claim to have no knowledge of when the cheques were cashed or by whom. In theory, the dept of health (or whomever issued the cheques) can then find out all that information from the paper trail.

In practice, were they (DoH) asked to follow up on it?

Wertz

The cheques were supposed to go to the SIPTU account correct? Then they were either lodged directly or given to someone to lodge them (with some sort of receipt?) which seemingly didn't happen...but the amounts were drawn down from the issuing account (DoH/HSE/HB)... I would like to think that there was a follow up before now as to where and by whom, such substantial amounts were drawn down, before this investigation came up...
This is all very shady and underhand...if someone gives me a cheque for work, before I either lodge or cash it I issue a personal receipt for my records and theirs and in case the revenue come calling...would that not be standard practice?

tayto lover

Jaysoose wrote: »

Possibly because when it comes to public money being wasted and missapropritaed anything goes, they know there will be no real investigation into this by the powers that be and it will be swept under the carpet. Basically there will be the usual lip service paid and the same spoofers will remain in the same positions.

Can somebody explain why the Gardai are not involved yet? it seems fairly straight forward money has vanished from this "account" with no record of who lodged the money or where it went.

The Garda cannot get involved until an official complaint has been lodged. No complaint = no crime.

murphaph

tayto lover wrote: »

The Garda cannot get involved until an official complaint has been lodged. No complaint = no crime.

A complaint should be made by the state agencies that paid this money over.

Sizzler

Whatever about the "small" matter of the missing money and the 190k chqs...can someone PLEASE tell me why PUBLIC money of ANY magnitude is being given to a trade union?????????????????

A training fund? The govt is the employer they can train people, if they cant then tough. If SIPTU want to train their members let them pay for it. But why is public money being handed over in this fashion? Someone should be locked up for this....seriously.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0326/1224293137791.html

Irish Steve

SIPTU, as far as I am concerned, there needs to be a fundamental cleaning out of a lot of high level SIPTU people, and I'm not just talking about the health service area, I also had very bad experiences with SIPTU at another location, operated by a semi state, and I ended up out of a job because I knew more about it than the union reps that also had junior management positions.

Result was a cobbled together "complaint" to management that they had no witness for, and a load of other aspects, but because the union was also my defence at the "hearing", which was a joke, and the management didn't know what they were talking about either, a few weeks later I had no job.

The company concerned wasn't run by their management, it was controlled by SIPTU, and the end result was not pretty, all sorts of covert corruption and other issues that were never brought out into the open, because SIPTU were comfortable with the end result.

I have been less than impressed with trade unions for a long time, and this incident finished me as far as unions are concerned, regardless of the implications, I will NEVER again pay a subscription to a trade union, and if that means I don't get the job, then so be it.

Having seen how SIPTU and others operate, while I don't like some aspects of the way that Ryanair operate, I can fully understand their very negative attitude towards unions

The slush fund that was operated by the health section is just one manifestation of the way that they have operated, and I hope that eventually, the people that were responsible will be made to pay the right price for their actions.

Head The Wall

Thanks for the input, it's a pity that you had to spend years paying money to this shower to find out that they really only care about themselves.

MOSSAD

When will ordinary SIPTU members wake up and realise that the pigs are walking on two legs?

mistermouse

And the Government still can't use publicity like this to take on the unions. Part of me wonders whether they are scared of them or in it up to their necks also.

I'd say there are many more skeletons in the closets of Public life

Irish Steve

mistermouse wrote: »

And the Government still can't use publicity like this to take on the unions. Part of me wonders whether they are scared of them or in it up to their necks also.

I'd say there are many more skeletons in the closets of Public life

Yes, yes and yes.

The unions have the power, and the capability to paralyse the country almost instantly if they so desire, and if that were to happen, the troika would not be amused, and neither would the rest of Europe, let alone the rest of the country. The unions can also afford very good spin doctors, so if a dispute with the state does happen, you can rest assured that it won't be portrayed as being the fault of the unions.

Up to their necks? And beyond, the only thing that hasn't happened so far is being found out.

And yes, there will be skeletons all over the place, cosy little "local" arrangements that smoothed the path of industrial relations.

Are we surprised? Not really, not when it was considered "clever" or "cute hoor" when senior politicians were caught with their snouts in the trough, What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. When it goes that high, it's an accepted part of the culture, regardless of if it's right, or appropriate, this is Ireland after all is said and done.

femur61

MOSSAD wrote: »

When will ordinary SIPTU members wake up and realise that the pigs are walking on two legs?

They don't care, if they are on miniscual wages - their wages are protected - their jobs no matter how badly they do it is protected.

Why do they care if fuel allowance for the elderly is cut or disability benefit is cut. The unfair system that a self employed person has no social welfare.

BeeDI

When the history of trade unionism, in this country is updated 100 years from now, I feel sure, a statue of the great Jack O Connor, will be erected along side, that of Jim Larkin:cool:

n97 mini

BeeDI wrote: »

When the history of trade unionism, in this country is updated 100 years from now, I feel sure, a statue of the great Jack O Connor, will be erected along side, that of Jim Larkin:cool:

I doubt that very much. Jim Larkin would be horrified at Jack O'Connor's salary alone, never mind the rest.

Jim Larkin, James Connolly and the rest were humanists, the SIPTU leadership are greedy pigs.

duncanjo

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0203/siptu.html

Reading the article it says that the hse money (some 5 million) has been used to fund lavish foreign junkets and so on.

DO we know who benefitted from these trips?
I expect that not all union outings are of the lavish category so would suspect that those who take them understand the source of the monies.

Also...this article is two months old and there seems to be very little media coverage...is this case progressing?