Teacher Who Can't Teach, and Bullies

Caught

Hi,

I really wasn't sure where to put this thread, but if you're all teachers here I thought it might be a good idea to see what you'd say.

Right, so I'm in fifth year. My maths teacher is dreadful, can not teach and bullies three of the students. I'm in higher level, by the way.

We've talked twice to the vice-principal about it this year. I'm not exaggerating when I say she can't teach. She can't. Anyone who has had her will confirm she can't teach.

Then there's the fact that she bullies three of the students. She gave them detention over the tiniest of things [and these are three students who never get into trouble]. They're some of my best friends, and have strict parents. One got detention this week and last week, and she cried because she was afraid to tell her Mam.

She just seems to constantly be talking to them in a harsh, unfriendly tone and she talks down to us.

We're all worried we're going to fail maths for our Leaving Cert. This year we've done ONE chapter. She also told us "read this chapter, it's only short, and do the first three problems on the next page." That was our homework one night! We couldn't figure it out and then the next day she didn't explain anything or correct it. She just said "we'll get back to that another time girls" and never did.

Almost every day when we're correcting the homework she'll come to something she can't do. She'll try it and will spend 10 - 20 minutes trying to work it out. She'll then say "girls, how did you try to solve it?" If anyone did something half useful then she'll say "okay okay, lets try that." Then after spending usually on average 25 minutes on the problem, she will say "girls, this is a hard problem. I'll work on solving it tonight and you know what? We'll get back to it." Half the time, we never do because she can't get it.

HOW are we meant to learn from someone who doesn't know how to do maths herself?

This is how the few months has gone:

September:
[*]We did Junior Cert maths for the month to make sure we had a "good foundation." We all did well in our Junior Cert, of course we do?
[*]We went to the vice principal about her not being able to teach (she was confusing us on things we could already do)

October:
[*] We did more Junior Cert Maths. Halfway through October we start our book.
[*] We were told we would be getting a test to assess our Junior Cert maths.

November:
[*] Second day back after midterm we were given a test on our Junior Cert maths. We all did well.
[*] During the month she insulted our intelligence even more, by "teaching" us how to square numbers [she spent a WHOLE class on this].
[*] I made a petition to get us a new teacher [which didn't get anywhere as some of the class said they'd sign it if they were less afraid of getting in trouble.]
[*]We went back to the vice principal. She advised us to send a letter to the principal about this.
[*]We sent the letter the next day, signed "the fifth year higher level maths class." She showed our maths teacher it. We got a speech from our teacher about how it was disrespectful and rude.
[*]The principal talked to us about our "concerns." She said we'd be getting new books to solve the problem (which we'd have to buy ourselves).

December:
[*] The principal comes into one of our classes, told us how she understands the course is packed and there's loads to cover. Not very useful to tell us, is it? We're worried sick!
[*] The teacher notices drawings in the front of one of the girls she's bullying's copy, from September. She had written on it "I'm so bored" and drawn pictures (understandable when she had bored us all to death?) She gives her detention.
[*] Today: The three girls she bullies go to a match, which she knew about. When we tell her they're gone to it, she tells the class how disrespectful and rude they are not telling her where they're gone, and gives the three detention.


We're all worried sick about maths now, and that we'll fail.

I'm debating whether to say this to my old maths teacher tomorrow, because he seems understanding and he's lovely. I'm also debating if I should say this to the principal. She used to be a maths teacher herself. My friends are afraid to say anything else (understandably) incase they get into trouble again.

I was wondering what you'd tell a student who felt like this about one of your colleagues? We're at our wits end here.

We want a new teacher. We want to do well in our leaving cert. We know we won't with her. Her 6th years from last year all failed their mocks. They were crying and warned us she can't teach.

Does anyone have any ideas what we could do?

Fuinseog

I wonder what would happen if you and your mates just went into her class sat down, took out your books, kept quiet and gave her a chance?

MagicMarker

Fuinseog wrote: »

I wonder what would happen if you and your mates just went into her class sat down, took out your books, kept quiet and gave her a chance?

I wonder if you read the OP?

boombang

First, I think Fuinseog's comment is particularly unhelpful.

Second, well done OP for making a stand. I look back at some of the coasting teachers I had in school and wish we as students stood up and challenged their incompetence.

I would seek to involve parents as well as pupils. It is understandable that students will feel uncomfortable standing up to a poor teacher, but parents will have more confidence.

I did once broach the issue of the quality of one teacher's teaching with my headmaster while I was in my final year and I got a very severe dressing down. Looking back I think it was a completely unreasonable response.

Good teachers deserve respect. Bad teachers deserve criticism.

Caught

MagicMarker wrote: »

Fuinseog wrote: »

I wonder what would happen if you and your mates just went into her class sat down, took out your books, kept quiet and gave her a chance?

I wonder if you read the OP?

I was thinking the same thing MagicMarker. :L

Thanks for the advice Fuinseog, but I actually do my work, as does the rest of the class? Thing is we can't understand it because its not explained to us, and when it is its not understandable what shes doing. We gave her a load of chances, but we can't keep giving her them at this stage...

rainbowtrout

Fuinseog wrote: »

I wonder what would happen if you and your mates just went into her class sat down, took out your books, kept quiet and gave her a chance?

To be fair Fuinseog, the OP has given quite a detailed account of the class over the past few months. Assuming that she has no reason to exaggerate it would seem that there is a problem there. Higher Level maths classes in general from my experience tend to be populated with hard working students who tend not to cause trouble. It tends to go with the territory. I too would be concerned if I was learning how to square numbers, which is something I learned to do in primary school.

I had a fantastic maths teacher for junior cert. We got a different maths teacher for LC. He knew his maths but couldn't teach. Maths consisted of him copying the example out of each section, telling us to get going on the questions to go with the section and 10 mins later he would write out the solutions on the board without explanation. There was never homework. Everyone in the class was going to grinds.


OP - if all of those problems exist as you describe, you should probably involve your parents rather than trying to get the problem sorted by yourself. Explain what is going on to your parents if you haven't done so already. Give them concrete examples of what is happening. Show them the work you have been doing in class, so it can be compared with what you should be doing. Ask them to make an appointment to see the principal and express their concerns or write a letter to the principal doing the same. Take it from there and see what happens. Stick to the factual stuff to begin with. Don't go in all guns blazing with 'she can't teach'. It's an opinion rather than a fact. Demonstrate that you are not being taught the Higher Level course. That is something factual and concrete.

If the problem is not resolved and there isn't another higher level maths class in your year, you might have to consider grinds.

garys

Sounds like you have an awful teacher...

Its nearly impossible to teach yourself maths, you'll most likely have to get grinds. Also Maths is (as your principal said) a packed course, so your going to have to work hard to catch up on the work you should have done.

Its nearly impossible for you to do anything... the principal/ other teachers will always take your Maths teachers side.

You could stop going to that class/ get the entire class to hand up blank christmas exams or whatever you have next... although it will most likely go very bad for you...

best thing to do is talk to your parents and get them to ring up the school...

happywithlife

if she really is that bad, you'll have to your parents on board as i just don't think students will be taken as seriously.
i wonder is it that she isn't fully qualified and was maybe given this class as that's just how the timetable fell - if she is as bad as you say, i can't see her as having all the neccessary qualifications. so maybe see if your parents can get a response from the principal on that.
is it the new project maths curriculum? if so has she attended all of her inservice?
apart from that maybe see if you can organise a cheap group grind maybe - absolutely not a fair solution i know but you can't be failing maths!
as for the 'bullying' keep the head down as much as you can, make sure all homework is done and handed up on time - no leaving the copy at home etc. don't give any excuse for any kind of reprimand. sometimes you do have your tongue to hold the peace, which i know may seem unfair. i'm not dismissing your statement that is does happen, rather i hope i am giving some practical-in-the-immediate future, advice.

seanybiker

My brother had an awful maths teacher for the leaving cert. Luckily my brother just walked out of the class and into the other maths teachers class early on in fifth year.

As others have said. You are going to need to get parents involved

Caught

Thanks to everyone that's replied.

I told my Mam, and I have been telling her how we're not doing the course, and we're behind the schedule. She said "she'd see" about complaining to the principal, which is probably a no.

Tomorrow I'm going to say it to everyone about getting their parents to complain like you all said so hopefully that will help. Whats the worst that could happen, right? I'll post tomorrow what everyone says anyway.

And @happywithlife, it's hard to bite your tongue when two of your best friends are crying in school because of a teacher. They both work really hard in school, and are afraid their Mam's will kill them.

Assuming majority of you are teachers, would you really give a student detention for drawing in their copy, which was also months ago? Its ridiculous. She had all her work done anyway.

KamiKazeKitten

Hi OP,
I had a dreadful maths teacher for my LC last year too, she knew her maths but couldn't teach at all! I ended up going to grinds, which absolutely saved me.

Firstly, don't panic! You seem bright and dedicated, and that will stand to you. Be prepared to work hard in order to learn what this lady should have taught you (which is very unfair I know), but you still have time to catch up.

I would recommend getting parents involved too - in my experience, parents have much more influence with schools. Get them to ring the school and complain to the principal.

Could your class maybe ask to have a meeting with the principal? Give a polite letter asking could she/he meet you all and discuss this (sounds ridiculously formal I know but it worked much better for us than going in on the attack straight away.)

Good luck with it, and with your LC.

Powerhouse

boombang wrote: »

First, I think Fuinseog's comment is particularly unhelpful.

Unhelpful? What does the comment not help? The only thing it does not help is to further the perception that the teacher is completely in the wrong here. And why do you have an issue with that? Is it not acceptable to even consider the possibility that maybe this account might be as likely to be biased, exaggerated or downright self-serving as it is to be fair and accurate? Not saying what the story is (or isn't) but I find the idea that any legitimate questioning of the account is deemed unhelpful ansolutely preposterous. What happened to debate? Or differing opinions?

I see no mention, for example, from the OP of the behaviour of the three students that are being "bullied". Are they doing anything, or saying anything is the class that might be less than ideal? If the teacher is a bully why is it only these three? All I see is that they are the OP's "best friends". Given this close relationship is there not even the outside possibility of bias, or partiality or that the OP finds disruptive behaviour from them "hilarious" and any challenge to that unacceptable (as is often the case with disruptive kids who are tacitly encouraged by their peers)? Nor do I get any sense of what the teacher's diary for September to December might look like. I have seen students who behave appallingly and would swear they are angels.

I know of a parent-teacher meeting a fortnight ago where a student was mentioned by name by several parents as being disruptive in class yet the same student has looked to be moved from three classes because he is being treated so "unfairly" by different teachers. This guy moves from having an issue with one teacher to another as his behaviour is challenged and is grossly untruthful and unfair in his denials of any personal reponsibility for his own behaviour. I would naturally be suspicious of any account where a teacher is apparently "picking" on students as I cannot see the benefit to a teacher in doing so. Surely teachers generally would avoid this like the plague? In my experience if students are attracting the wrong kind of attention it is usually with good reason on the teacher's part. Why this possibility cannot, according to some, even be broached here is not clear.

This view undoubtedly would also be filed under the "unhelpful" category too I imagine, but if a forum fostered genuine debate the mention of such possibilities (all of which are no doubt wrong etc. etc.) would not be deemed "unhelpful" by any poster who welcomes debate. They would be considered fair comment. Can people just not contradict Fuinseog's view if they have the necessary information and full confidence in the OP's account to do so, but why dismiss it so arrogantly as "unhelpful" as if only comments agreeing with people are helpful?

2011abc

Caught wrote: »

Hi,

• I made a petition to get us a new teacher

• The teacher notices drawings in the front of one of the girls she's bullying's copy, from September. She had written on it "I'm so bored" and drawn pictures (understandable when she had bored us all to death?) She gives her detention.

This is what I took from the OP .There are two sides to every story .We've only heard one side .Im guessing most of respondents arent teachers or havent been teaching long .How about talking politely and maturely to your teacher about your concerns and not organising petitions and gossiping behind her back ?Give that a go for a few weeks listening in class and get back then .THIS is how teachers get bad reputations .Livelihoods are at stake .

I'd "bully " a student too who had drawn on her book and written, "I'm so bored ".By bullying you actually mean not letting you do what you want right !?How's the level of student chatter in this class ?Pretty high Id suspect .Oldest story in the book .I pity your teacher !

This sort of thing is snowballing and in the next few years teachers are going to be forced out of the profession in increasing numbers under the, at this stage tired old banner of 'underperforming'.The Teaching Council will be using our own money to fire us .This kind of student is DEADLY .They tell their own twisted version of events to their parents who believe it as gospel .BEWARE!

Let me guess OP ,when the teacher is working youre updating your diary of all her 'sins' right!?Go on, admit it!

CageWager

2011abc wrote: »

I'd "bully " a student too who had drawn on her book and written, "I'm so bored ".By bullying you actually mean not letting you do what you want right !?

You would punish a 16/17 year old for drawing on their copy? That's junior infants stuff. And then you expect them to act like adults? If you treat people like kids they'll act like kids.

2011abc wrote: »

This sort of thing is snowballing and in the next few years teachers are going to be forced out of the profession in increasing numbers under the, at this stage tired old banner of 'underperforming'.The Teaching Council will be using our own money to fire us .This kind of student is DEADLY .They tell their own twisted version of events to their parents who believe it as gospel .BEWARE!

So people who are poor at their jobs should not be accountable to anyone? It's this exact attitude that has our young people drastically underperforming in crucial subjects like maths. Some teachers are not properly qualified to teach certain subjects, especially maths. No teacher should be allowed to cruise through 30 years of below par teaching, never once questioned and held accountable for their standard of work. Most people have quarterly performance reviews and if you're not up to scratch its a strike against you. What makes teachers so special?

*It's also important to point out that there are many cases of highly disruptive classes and adverse working conditions for teachers, as well as parents being hostile. I have no doubt that teachers have a tough job and its a thankless one but that cant be used as an excuse for genuine cases where a teacher is clearly not comfortable teaching the material. This business of students (especially ones at the age of 16/17 who are pretty much grown men/women) not being allowed to question anything is a sad relic of the way things used to be in this country.

F1f1

Caught wrote: »

Hi,


This sort of thing is snowballing and in the next few years teachers are going to be forced out of the profession in increasing numbers under the, at this stage tired old banner of 'underperforming'.The Teaching Council will be using our own money to fire us .This kind of student is DEADLY .They tell their own twisted version of events to their parents who believe it as gospel .BEWARE!

Let me guess OP ,when the teacher is working youre updating your diary of all her 'sins' right!?Go on, admit it!

Wow! The OP has clearly shown that their teacher is not fit for the job. Doing junior cert maths in leaving cert? The course is big enough without wasting time.
I don't view it as a bad thing if incompitant teachers are forced out, the students and their families are paying for these teachers and they must be held accountable. If someone can't do their job they have to go, simple as.

dambarude

2011abc wrote: »

This is what I took from the OP .There are two sides to every story .We've only heard one side .Im guessing most of respondents arent teachers or havent been teaching long .How about talking politely and maturely to your teacher about your concerns and not organising petitions and gossiping behind her back ?Give that a go for a few weeks listening in class and get back then .THIS is how teachers get bad reputations .Livelihoods are at stake .

I'd "bully " a student too who had drawn on her book and written, "I'm so bored ".By bullying you actually mean not letting you do what you want right !?How's the level of student chatter in this class ?Pretty high Id suspect .Oldest story in the book .I pity your teacher !

This sort of thing is snowballing and in the next few years teachers are going to be forced out of the profession in increasing numbers under the, at this stage tired old banner of 'underperforming'.The Teaching Council will be using our own money to fire us .This kind of student is DEADLY .They tell their own twisted version of events to their parents who believe it as gospel .BEWARE!

Let me guess OP ,when the teacher is working youre updating your diary of all her 'sins' right!?Go on, admit it!

You have a point, but the OP seems to have fairly concrete evidence that the syllabus isn't being covered. Any objective observer, even one not qualified to teach maths would be able to confirm that. HL Maths is very time-constrained, and the dilly dallying this teacher is doing just isn't acceptable. If the OP is making up the fact they have covered nothing, that will be pointed out to him/her. It's fairly black or white, so is unlikely to be concocted.

I'd agree that the petition idea probably wasn't a good one- I saw it happen in my own school when in LC and it just got everybody's back up. It related to a case quite similar to this one, but with a different subject.

OP you really should just go and get grinds. I realise that might be easier said than done, and you shouldn't be put in that situation, but time really is of the essence with LC Maths. Perhaps you could go as a group with the other students in your class if you can't afford one on one sessions.

Smeefa

2011abc wrote: »

How about talking politely and maturely to your teacher about your concerns and not organising petitions and gossiping behind her back ?

THIS is how teachers get bad reputations .Livelihoods are at stake .

This sort of thing is snowballing and in the next few years teachers are going to be forced out of the profession in increasing numbers under the, at this stage tired old banner of 'underperforming'.The Teaching Council will be using our own money to fire us .This kind of student is DEADLY .They tell their own twisted version of events to their parents who believe it as gospel .BEWARE!

2011abc you seem to think that this is all the OPs fault?! You seem to believe that theres no such thing as a bad teacher...

If a teacher is 'underperforming' they clearly aren't suited to teaching. If an employee from any other profession was consistently 'underperforming' or have complaints made against them they would clearly be asked to leave/demoted, or at least be investigated to see what the problem is!

Its the students who are left to sit through badly planned/ boring/ confusing lessons and reduced performance in exams that ultimately can change the direction their lives go in. Its the parents who have to foot the bill for grinds that are only required because of the poor standard of teaching.


Maybe its been a while since you have experienced the student/teacher relationship from the students point of view. The OP comes across as a polite dedicated student. This figure of authority is clearly intimidating, she has the power to punish the OP for standing up to her.
If the OP takes your advice and the teacher takes offense or sees it as her being cheeky, the poor girl could very well end up in detention with her friends!

It is VERY very difficult for a young person of 16/17 to approach an intimidating woman who has the ability to dish out punishments and has the support from the principal no matter what she does. A principal will always, always support their employees.


Teachers dont get a bad reputation for no reason. Believe it or not, students don't get together and suddenly decide that they dont like a particular teachers teaching style.

Bad teachers are bad at teaching.

starviewadams

Both of my maths teachers at secondary were awful,our senior cycle teacher was fairly old and retiring at the end of our final year so didn't seem to give a toss about teaching,and pretty much left us to our own devices.When we raised it with our year head not a bad word was heard against him because he had ''devoted his life'' to the school.

Those of us in the class who wanted to do well just got weekly grinds instead and tried to get through the textbook as best we could.

Probably what the OP will end up having to do unfortunately,if the school aren't interested in solving the problem.

angelfire9

I had a similar experience in 4th year (there was no TY in my day)
I was in the honours maths class having gotten by some miracle an A in Inter Cert Higher Maths
Roll along to 4th year, brand new teacher (new to the school) and she couldn't teach for peanuts
She gave us a load of questions one day on a topic we hadn't covered and told us she wanted to see if we could figure it out :eek:
I couldn't
She sat at her desk for 15 minutes
I raised my hand and when she came down I told her I couldn't understand the principles (it was a Sin Cos Tan thing) and could she go over them
She told me and I can remember this quote almost 20 years later "You've got brains, use them, don't be so lazy"
I wasn't being lazy I could never get the Sine Cos Tan thing (sorry can't remember the proper name)
I can still remember thinks like -b +/- square root of b squared all over 2a (that's algebra i think, I was good at algebra)

Anyway, at the end of the lesson she spend NO time to explaining the topic, and gave us 20 similar questions for homework
Sure I hadn't a clue, did HOURS of work, tried getting parents to help, rang older brother in his digs in dublin to see if he could help (these were the days pre PC in every home)
Went in the following day with 20 pages of goobley gook and she took 1 look and told me to leave the classroom & tried to get me suspended for disrupting her teaching!
This was 5 seconds into the lesson I hadn't even opened my mouth!
Cue a nice long conversation with the principal where I was told I needed to try harder! :mad:

My parents had seen how much time I had spent on every one of those 20 questions so it wasn't me being lazy!

The solution, my father came in & had a meeting with the principle & the teacher got read the riot act, subsequently she spent days upon days upon days explaining every little thing and we didn't have a quarter of the course done after the year was up



OP Get your parents involved, get EVERYONE's parents involved
In my experience that is the only thing that will work

In my case the teacher got fired after 1 year and we had a new teacher for 5th year who was much better but our confidence was shattered and we just about scraped through covering the entire course but a lot of it was rushed
On the day of the LC I took the ordinary level paper as I was too afraid to do the honours one and I got an A1 in it
Sickening

rainbowtrout

2011abc wrote: »

This is what I took from the OP .There are two sides to every story .We've only heard one side .Im guessing most of respondents arent teachers or havent been teaching long .How about talking politely and maturely to your teacher about your concerns and not organising petitions and gossiping behind her back ?Give that a go for a few weeks listening in class and get back then .THIS is how teachers get bad reputations .Livelihoods are at stake .

I'd "bully " a student too who had drawn on her book and written, "I'm so bored ".By bullying you actually mean not letting you do what you want right !?How's the level of student chatter in this class ?Pretty high Id suspect .Oldest story in the book .I pity your teacher !

This sort of thing is snowballing and in the next few years teachers are going to be forced out of the profession in increasing numbers under the, at this stage tired old banner of 'underperforming'.The Teaching Council will be using our own money to fire us .This kind of student is DEADLY .They tell their own twisted version of events to their parents who believe it as gospel .BEWARE!

Let me guess OP ,when the teacher is working youre updating your diary of all her 'sins' right!?Go on, admit it!

Really? And your evidence for that is what exactly? I'm a teacher and have been teaching for 11 years. Is my opinion not valid? The thread is not about whether the OP is telling the truth or not, it's about a problem the OP is having with her maths teachers and ways she can tackle the problem.

I'm assuming from your comment about the Teaching Council you are a teacher, and frankly your attitude towards students is shocking. Your description of the student that complains as 'DEADLY' makes it sound like you feel threatened by such students. :rolleyes: And the way you have addressed the OP, considering she is a student, and you are an adult and a professional leaves a lot to be desired. There are poor teachers out there, just as there are under-performing employees every profession, and teachers do not get a bad reputation from one student complaining about them, they get a bad reputation from consistently poor teaching and lots of students complaining about them.

Again, I think OP has given a reasonable account of her situation. If she can show evidence based on her class work that they are still doing Junior Cert Maths four months into fifth year then there is a problem regardless of what else goes on in the class.

Justin.Credibl

Powerhouse wrote: »

Unhelpful? What does the comment not help? The only thing it does not help is to further the perception that the teacher is completely in the wrong here. And why do you have an issue with that? Is it not acceptable to even consider the possibility that maybe this account might be as likely to be biased, exaggerated or downright self-serving as it is to be fair and accurate? Not saying what the story is (or isn't) but I find the idea that any legitimate questioning of the account is deemed unhelpful ansolutely preposterous. What happened to debate? Or differing opinions?

As a teacher myself and someone who has great knowledge of this curriculum if OP claims that they have been thought any form of Junior Cert maths then this is a clear indication that this teacher has themselves not got great knowledge as to the length of the maths course.The second comment was clearly unhelpful as well as yours and if you indeed are a Teacher you should also know that like in every profession there are people who do not meet the standard expected of them.

The question of whether "detention" was deserved or not is completely irrelevant to anything as it is your grade in Maths that is most important here. I suggest you try talk to the teacher and let her no you are worried that the course is not getting covered. If you fail then you approach the Principal with your worries. It is clear this teacher has angered you, but you must put that aside as your grade in Maths is most important and could shape your future. No pressure

TheDriver

i would think there is no point talking to this teacher if what the OP says is accurate, the OP gives the impression they are normal kids not being taught much. And the course sounds like the teacher is running from PM.
The best way here is for parents to get into the Principal and complain. Nothing else will work. If they won't complain, then they are condoning the teachers lack of progress.
Kids are constantly coming up about teachers but its usually because they are caught causing trouble etc so its hard to decipher the genuine cases. Parents need to get involved.

Powerhouse

Justin.Credibl wrote: »

As a teacher myself and someone who has great knowledge of this curriculum if OP claims that they have been thought any form of Junior Cert maths then this is a clear indication that this teacher has themselves not got great knowledge as to the length of the maths course.The second comment was clearly unhelpful as well as yours and if you indeed are a Teacher you should also know that like in every profession there are people who do not meet the standard expected of them.

The question of whether "detention" was deserved or not is completely irrelevant to anything as it is your grade in Maths that is most important here. I suggest you try talk to the teacher and let her no you are worried that the course is not getting covered. If you fail then you approach the Principal with your worries. It is clear this teacher has angered you, but you must put that aside as your grade in Maths is most important and could shape your future. No pressure

I knew someone would come along and reply to me in admonitious tones about there being bad teachers and those "who do not meet the standard expected of them". But of course I never claimed otherwise, or made any general references to application of standards.

My point was simply that the OP gave a view of things from their perspective and the person who originally challenged that was entitled to question that view and not have it dismissed with astonishing arrogance as "unhelpful" as if the commentary could only acceptably go one way and that the OP's testimony had to be followed hook, line and sinker.

An aside: I have to laugh at your view that "The question of whether "detention" was deserved or not is completely irrelevant". This is breathtaking hubris. The OP cited this as part and parcel of the teacher's alleged unfairness and they are entitled to air that view and establish its relevance to their perception of the situation. Of course they should be willing to have that view challenged i.e. are the detentions really unfair? What are these three students doing that is different to the rest of the class?

The reality is that we are given scant information about the behaviour of the students which of course is the genesis of Fuinseog's "unhelpful" (but completely reasonable for anyone interested in an actual debate) post.

Personally I have seen too many students swear blind that black is white over the years to not believe a student's opinion cannot be challenged (except for the bits you deem "irrelevant" of course) as you appear to believe.

2011abc

Smeefa wrote: »

Teachers dont get a bad reputation for no reason. Believe it or not, students don't get together and suddenly decide that they dont like a particular teachers teaching style.

Bad teachers are bad at teaching.

"Teachers dont get a bad reputation for no reason."

Would LOVE to hear your attitude to rape victims in mini skirts and paediatricians who are attacked by 'lynch mobs'.


"Bad teachers are bad at teaching."


Not sure which of these two gems is the more inane comment .


"Believe it or not, students don't get together and suddenly decide that they dont like a particular teachers teaching style. "

No they dont have to get together, some are quite capable of destroying a teacher's career all by themselves,but like many bullies they sometimes form gangs.

Laisurg

A lot of principals are quite happy to ignore students but it's a lot more difficult with parents, the only thing you can do really is try to get your parents to complain and tell your friends to do the same.
To be honest though i'd say there's virtually no chance of her getting sacked/replaced before the end of the year, I had a similar issue with a useless and abusive maths teacher in my school and she was worse than your teacher by the sounds of it and received countless complaints over a few years and the horrible cow is still teaching in the school

2011abc

TheDriver wrote: »

Kids are constantly coming up about teachers but its usually because they are caught causing trouble etc so its hard to decipher the genuine cases.

Key sentence in this discussion.There are way too many ready to just assume that the teacher in question is automatically in the wrong .

How about followng a sequence like this :

FACT 1 Let's say a teacher has only covered a chapter or two after 3 months -> Teacher is automatically to blame .

FACT 2 Students are talking and messing in class non stop -> Students are automatically to blame .

FACT 3 Many of these students cause no trouble in other teachers' classes -> Teacher is automatically to blame

FACT 4 Same students join in the pupils 'bullying' of teacher -"everybody else was doing it.... " ->Students are automatically to blame

etc etc .....

Never black and white situation but students more often than not exacerbate situation by wither 'joining in' or 'backbiting' .

Or maybe the teacher is always automatically to blame ?

2011abc

angelfire9 wrote: »

brand new teacher (new to the school) and she couldn't teach for peanuts


she spend NO time to explaining the topic

the teacher got read the riot act, subsequently she spent days upon days upon days explaining every little thing and we didn't have a quarter of the course done after the year was up



OP Get your parents involved, get EVERYONE's parents involved

In my case the teacher got fired after 1 year

Sickening

You said it ....

2011abc

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Really? And your evidence for that is what exactly?

Because anyone teaching for more than a few years would realise the ever increasing demands of the job necessitate that teachers show collegiality .You dont know if the teacher in question has cancer , suffered bereavement etc etc

I'm assuming from your comment about the Teaching Council you are a teacher, and frankly your attitude towards students is shocking. Your description of the student that complains as 'DEADLY' makes it sound like you feel threatened by such students. :rolleyes:

Darn right I do .Gossip spreads like wildfire and leads to a vicious circle /negative downward spiral that teachers cant escape from until they are fired or forced into early retirement .



teachers do not get a bad reputation from one student complaining about them, they get a bad reputation from consistently poor teaching and lots of students complaining about them.


regardless of what else goes on in the class.

Look in our school a kid openly boasted to their classmates they was going to get a teacher fired .They succeeded ...Somebody is not a 'bad teacher' just because a student says so.

Feeona

Hi OP, the fact that your teacher tries to work out problems in class (on a regular basis) is very worrying. She should have all that material worked out and understood before she even enters the classroom. Maths can be confusing, and you do not need a teacher who is herself confused when it comes to doing the questions. This is a sign of a teacher who is 'winging it'. Any teacher worth their salt knows that they need to be prepared going into class, with a clear idea of what they're teaching and how they're going to teach it. It is totally unacceptable that your Maths teacher doesn't even have a clear idea of what she's teaching.

As for the 'bullying', she sounds like a typical teacher in that regard (albeit a bit flighty). You say the comment was written in your friend's copy in September, maybe your teacher thought it had been written that day? You also mentioned that 'we were bored to death' as a reason for your friend writing in her copy. Unfortunately that attitude just comes across as juvenile, and you would've have been treated accordingly if you said anything like that to your teacher or principal. Chatting in class is a big no-no also, there is really nothing more annoying than trying to explain something at the top of the class while a rumble of conversation is carrying on at the back. I understand that chatting is probably going on because the teacher isn't explaining things properly, but chatting is still chatting and you must respect the class rules.

I hope you get everything sorted out OP, you seem to have very stark facts regarding your teacher's skill as an educator. You will need to take a very adult approach to your problem (that means no juvenile comments like the one above, or chatting in class). By all means get parents involved, but it is going to take a lot of time to make headway because everything will have to be investigated.

rainbowtrout

2011abc wrote: »

Look in our school a kid openly boasted to their classmates they was going to get a teacher fired .They succeeded ...Somebody is not a 'bad teacher' just because a student says so.

Well nobody here can comment on the situation in your school without knowing all of the facts.

But assuming the OP's account is accurate, there is no escaping the fact that this teacher cannot do the maths let alone teach it and is not following the Leaving Cert syllabus. All other issues aside, this is a serious problem and the students deserve to have a competent teacher.

Powerhouse

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Well nobody here can comment on the situation in your school without knowing all of the facts.

But assuming the OP's account is accurate, there is no escaping the fact

Just wondering how you can reconcile the two contradictory views above? How can you not comment on that poster's account "without knowing all the facts" but can expound at will on the OP's account having only one side of the situation?

It seems an extraordinary double-standard.

rainbowtrout

Powerhouse wrote: »

Just wondering how you can reconcile the two contradictory views above? How can you not comment on that poster's account "without knowing all the facts" but can expound at will on the OP's account having only one side of the situation?

It seems an extraordinary double-standard.

On this forum, not just the T&L forum but on all boards forums, an OP's account of a situation is taken at face value and if more detail is needed, posters ask for clarification. 2011abc just made an off the cuff remark about an incident in their school, without any detail whatsoever, which is not what the thread is about. Again with scant detail it wouldn't be fair to comment, but had detail been forthcoming, I can't see why anyone else here wouldn't have accepted it as told. Perhaps my choice of the word 'facts' was a poor one. The example given above about a student getting a teacher fired cannot be used to suggest that all students or indeed the OP, are trying to get their teachers fired for no reason. The words 'sweeping' and 'generalisation' come to mind.The OP has given a detailed account of their situation and as we are not privy to the other side of the story, we accept it to be true.They came to the forum for help for their situation.

To be honest given the context of the situation ... higher level maths class where you tend not to find too many students in there just for the craic, and from the general demographic of second level students on boards, I would say the vast majority of them are not time wasters and trouble makers. Have a look at the numerous threads in the Leaving Cert forum. I post there regularly and am quite familiar with the general vibe of the forum. Aside from the bragging that goes on in points threads in August, the forum mainly deals with students who want to maximise their chances in the LC, work hard, take up extra subjects, worries about dropping to ordinary level in a subject when points are needed, trying to get high points to get into competitive courses etc. I would say your typical Leaving cert boards user is not the type to come on the forum and make up a convoluted story about not being taught the leaving cert curriculum just to try and get a teacher fired for the craic.

looksee

I cannot see any reason for the doubt about the truth of the OP's post. It comes across as true, while allowing for the human tendency to describe any situation to suit one's own agenda. You don't have to be a teenager to do that, and we mostly read between the lines to deal with it.

The posts that suggest that teachers should be protected from students' comments at all costs I find very worrying. They come over as indifferent teachers defending themselves by trying to cover up for people who are in the wrong profession.

If the OP is given sensible advice on how to deal with the issue, how can that be a problem to anyone? If the OP is exaggerating a proper investigation will show that she is, if she is not then the situation needs to be dealt with. A very poor teacher can do a great deal of damage to the educational prospects of a large number of young people over the years, should they be allowed to do that with impunity?

The one thing I would suggest to the OP is that she should not confuse the issue with the accusations of bullying. That is a separate issue which is very subjective and undermines the question of whether the course is being properly taught. Stick to the facts and get that problem sorted, chances are the bullying problem will sort itself out in the process.

Powerhouse

rainbowtrout wrote: »

On this forum, not just the T&L forum but on all boards forums, an OP's account of a situation is taken at face value and if more detail is needed, posters ask for clarification. 2011abc just made an off the cuff remark about an incident in their school, without any detail whatsoever, which is not what the thread is about. Again with scant detail it wouldn't be fair to comment, but had detail been forthcoming, I can't see why anyone else here wouldn't have accepted it as told. Perhaps my choice of the word 'facts' was a poor one.

Okay then, so it comes down to something as arbitrary as chronology - who posted first? I must remember that next time I want to post something that if I open a new thread (irrespective of whether what I am posting is substantiated or balanced) it will be by and large accepted at face value as being the the absolute and full "truth" and any subsequent challenge to it will be regarded (as was the case by some others on this thread) as "unhelpful". That is absolutely extraordinary but it's no harm to have it out in the open.

You are right about one thing - there are no "facts", only representations of an individual's perception. Which is why the pedestalisation of the OP on any such forum is incredible.

The OP, I am sure, is giving their perception in good faith but the idea that their perception is the only allowable perception is laughable and frankly drags down the level of discussion to the power of the mob.

Fuinseog

Good teachers deserve respect. Bad teachers deserve criticism.[/QUOTE]

I am sure this teacher has been abused enough on rate my teachers to the extent that they do not care anymore. such sites do more harm than good.

I am interested in the criteria for determining a good teacher. give them sweeties and have a fun Friday every week, where you sit back and do not teach will make you popular but is ethically questionable.

maybe the teacher should be judged on the grades the kids get.if the kids get bad grades he or she is a bad teacher, or should the role of home study enter the equation?

Fuinseog

Kids are constantly coming up about teachers but its usually because they are caught causing trouble etc so its hard to decipher the genuine cases. Parents need to get involved.[/QUOTE]

unfortunately you get parents who complain that little johnny is getting bad grades but ignore the fact that they have no control over their offspring, take them off to Spain or America half way through the term or ignore the fact that their child is not doing homework.

rainbowtrout

Powerhouse wrote: »

Okay then, so it comes down to something as arbitrary as chronology - who posted first? I must remember that next time I want to post something that if I open a new thread (irrespective of whether what I am posting is substantiated or balanced) it will be by and large accepted at face value as being the the absolute and full "truth" and any subsequent challenge to it will be regarded (as was the case by some others on this thread) as "unhelpful". That is absolutely extraordinary but it's no harm to have it out in the open.

You are right about one thing - there are no "facts", only representations of an individual's perception. Which is why the pedestalisation of the OP on any such forum is incredible.

The OP, I am sure, is giving their perception in good faith but the idea that their perception is the only allowable perception is laughable and frankly drags down the level of discussion to the power of the mob.

No, as I said, if more detail is needed posters ask for clarification.

While I will be accused of back seat modding, maybe you should read the charter. No one is being put up on a pedestal. The OP has presented her situation as she sees it, and that is what is up for discussion, not what the situation might be construed as. If you don't like the OPs view, go and start another thread on how teachers are being given a bad name by students.

If you went to the doctor and said you had a pain in your chest, you would expect the doctor to discuss it with you, not dismiss it and say 'not a chance, you are probably making it all up'. Same situation here.

dambarude

Fuinseog wrote: »

I am sure this teacher has been abused enough on rate my teachers to the extent that they do not care anymore. such sites do more harm than good.

I am interested in the criteria for determining a good teacher. give them sweeties and have a fun Friday every week, where you sit back and do not teach will make you popular but is ethically questionable.

maybe the teacher should be judged on the grades the kids get.if the kids get bad grades he or she is a bad teacher, or should the role of home study enter the equation?

I think a basic necessity in assessing a teacher is determining if they have covered the syllabus. Assessing how well they have covered it is another question. The former clearly isn't happening in this case, and so points to very poor teaching.

Le King

2011abc wrote: »

Key sentence in this discussion.There are way too many ready to just assume that the teacher in question is automatically in the wrong .

How about followng a sequence like this :

FACT 1 Let's say a teacher has only covered a chapter or two after 3 months -> Teacher is automatically to blame .

FACT 2 Students are talking and messing in class non stop -> Students are automatically to blame .

FACT 3 Many of these students cause no trouble in other teachers' classes -> Teacher is automatically to blame

FACT 4 Same students join in the pupils 'bullying' of teacher -"everybody else was doing it.... " ->Students are automatically to blame

etc etc .....

Never black and white situation but students more often than not exacerbate situation by wither 'joining in' or 'backbiting' .

Or maybe the teacher is always automatically to blame ?

Yes, the teacher is to blame. At that level of education the teacher should be able to cover the curriculum, control the class and not resort to bully tactics.

In a subject as important as Maths, this is no small matter. If the whole class is not getting the work done then the teacher shouldn't be teaching.

charlemont

2011abc wrote: »

Look in our school a kid openly boasted to their classmates they was going to get a teacher fired .They succeeded ...Somebody is not a 'bad teacher' just because a student says so.

You are that teacher ! Yes..

If a teacher is not capable of doing the job then he/she should be sent packing.

Powerhouse

looksee wrote: »

It comes across as true, while allowing for the human tendency to describe any situation to suit one's own agenda.

You have inadvertently pinpointed the precise paradox here - how can any account (teacher's or student's) be "true" given the natural tendency to "describe any situation to suit one's own agenda"?

It is precisely because of that that people should be allowed to posit reasonable questions which might draw the veil away from the bits that we are not hearing without being dismissed as "unhelpful".

Then people can decide what is the "truth" - if such a thing exists in this situation. I think there are some people here suspending their scepticism of the OP's account in order to appear as I-don't-fear-change-and-support-the-rooting-out-of-bad-teachers-which-of course-would-never-include-myself-as-I'm-a-real-go-getter types. Would these teachers support the three students who are getting detentions and by extention the behaviour that prompts the detention? I would doubt that they would so do privately.

Personally I have heard so much lies (yes, blunt untruths - made up stuff which cannot be waffled away as perception) from students over the years that I retain that sort of scepticism. I met a student recently who has behaved badly for quite some time and even on a day he was suspended he still maintained to me on his way out of the school that he did "nothing" and that it was all a conspiracy to get him. Happily enough he laid into his mother in front of the Vice-Principal and Year Head at a meeting this week which shows the mother the sort of "nothing" that he gets up to in school.

I have yet to come across a teacher who wants to give up their free time to give detentions for "nothing" and sit for half an hour looking at the very person that annoys the hell out of them in class. That's what I see when I read between the lines of the OP's post. Detention for nothing is the sort of thing that does not ring true to me yet it will not be amplified in any way because it is the OP's bessie mates that are involved.

I think those who might ask fair questions of the OP should be allowed to do so and not cowed by some silly abritrary made-up-as-you-go-along internet rule about the sanctity of the OP's opinion, or any fear of being seen to even indirectly defend a teacher.

Powerhouse

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The OP has presented her situation as she sees it, and that is what is up for discussion, not what the situation might be construed as.

This is an astonishing comment! What is there to discuss if the OP's comment is the only thing admissable? But why not just have a blog or something rather than posting it on a forum where nominally at least issues are there to be discussed.

Analagous to what you are saying is that if someone started a thread saying that drink-driving should be legalised the only thing that could be discussed is the nature of that legalisation and that people could not suggest that it might not be a terribly clever idea as they woudl conflict with the OP's perception.

Incidentally I never said I didn't like the OP's view. Never commented on it either way. What I don't like the fact that the gaps in it cannot be questioned and the implication that dissenting opinion is unacceptable.

Powerhouse

dambarude wrote: »

I think a basic necessity in assessing a teacher is determining if they have covered the syllabus. Assessing how well they have covered it is another question. The former clearly isn't happening in this case, and so points to very poor teaching.

I'd have thought the latter would be far more of a measure of teaching quality. Anyone can skim through a syllabus.

Knee Ca Hawn

Right....I've lectured in Education and I now work as an Educational Psychologist(NEPS)so,I would like to offer some advice on this whole issue.....

OP may I recommend you seriously consider the following- there ARE processes that MUST be followed if you intend to make a complaint against a qualified Teacher. Teachers are qualified education professionals and you must seriously consider the exact nature of your complaint when you decide to make such.

You must follow your school's complaints procedure in order to have your complaint assessed.

You must discuss this with your parents as usually,this kind of complaint is processed by parents on their childs' behalf.

The nature of your complaint must be genuine and not be at all malicious against the Teacher in question.

The teacher has the right to hear your complaints and address the issues raised.

A cooling off period will be allowed and then,normally both parties will reconvene to discuss solutions.

This is only fair to both sides,afterall this is a persons livelihood you are dealing with.

The matter has to be investigated via a Board Of Management.

However,you cannot just begin with a student protest against this teacher,that may in fact,be seen as bullying/harassment of your TEACHER.

Follow the proper channels and hopefully a positive resolution all round can be found. Good luck.

dambarude

Powerhouse wrote: »

I'd have thought the latter would be far more of a measure of teaching quality. Anyone can skim through a syllabus.

It may well be, but one of the most objective measures is whether the content has been covered or not. Commenting on 'how well' something is taught leads to all of the arguments being made above, regarding students concocting stories about what happens in the classroom.

evolving_doors

Parents council/Board of management is the only way to go, the class need to get together and ALL tell their parents with a clear outline of the facts, if the parents realise that the whole class is united then something is more likely to get done, the school should also have a student council so the OP could get some info from the 6th years and other years that will help. The more evidence the better.

I think the explanation of the facts from the OP is concise enough .... it is OBVIOUS from the OP that the teacher is winging it, esp. if they haven't the class prepared on a consistent basis... asking for help from the class is not good.

E.T.

As Knee Ca Hawn has already posted, there's a formal complaints process to follow. Complaints go to the teacher first, principal next if not resolved, and then BOM if not resolved at that stage.

Powerhouse

Armelodie wrote: »

asking for help from the class is not good.

Again, this comes down to the imperative to accept without question what the OP says. Teaching theory these days would have it that classes should be involved in "helping" - that eliciting the material from them is the way to go, rather than producing a didactic lecturing style where they just in essence listen and take notes. And anyone in a second-level setting knows they won't do that anyway - that if they are not involved they will switch off and/or go bananas. Who knows...maybe this is a disruptive/chatty group and the teacher plans classes so as to keep them occupied as much as possible?

Unfortunately we cannot ask. If it was possible/acceptable to question the OP it would be interesting to clarify what precisely in practical terms gettiung the class to "help" involves. But I certainly know in my own case that every time I question a student I am not doing so because I cannot do things myself or I need them to show me how to do things. Questioning and the fostering of independent learning (not all students like it or are comfortable with it in fairness) is surely an integral part of any enlightened classroom setting. Not saying that this is what is happening here but that the possibility might be contemplated.

clartharlear

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Well nobody here can comment on the situation in your school without knowing all of the facts.

But assuming the OP's account is accurate, there is no escaping the fact that this teacher cannot do the maths let alone teach it and is not following the Leaving Cert syllabus. All other issues aside, this is a serious problem and the students deserve to have a competent teacher.

Believe me, I can do the maths, and I've had some extraordinarily good past leaving cert results, but if there is chatter in the classroom when I'm trying to explain a calculation, I will get flustered and more than likely mess it up.

I'm not taking either side here now. I've experienced the frustration of bad teaching and that's nothing compared to the frustration of a class of youngsters refusing to let me do some good teaching. I guess I'm a middle of the road teacher - I have my highs and lows. Maths and physics came easy to me, behavior management has come much harder...

Knee Ca Hawn

I would like to state something subjective to my own personal experience here in relation to the topic of teachers as "bullies"....

In all of my professional experience,the vast,vast majority of Teachers I have met(Be it Primary,Secondary or Third Level)are in the job out of 2 main reasons:

1.love of their subject

and,

2. A genuine interest in wanting to work with young(er!)minds.

To be perfectly frank, in everyone job,in every field,there are a few unsuitable persons. As I said earlier there are suitable channels to go through in genuine circumstance. Thankfully these channels are also there to protect teachers' from vindictive complaints.

I do wonder,however,that if the education system were to go the way of our Stateside cousins(fee-paying at second-level) would there suddenly be a renewed respect/appreciation for the work (and extra work like Christmas Shows,Sporting Events,Debate teams,Choir,etc) that teachers in our current public-system do as part of their daily duties?

Would students' be so quick to "demand" campaigns and protests against their teachers,if they had to pay for them?

Where is the thread giving thanks or appreciation for that??

Caught

First of all, uhm wow? When did all these replies happen. I'm shocked! :O

Secondly, to anyone who thinks I'm a trouble maker who just hates a teacher, I'd appreciate it so much if you took my word for it that I don't. I'm a student who actually spends an unhealthy amount of time studying and I'm pretty sure I'm suffering from anxiety [and if one of you think now I'm looking for sympathy then I'll actually be very frustrated]. I want your honest opinions, so I'm not trying to get you on my side and if you take my teachers side I'm quite okay with that. You all have your own views so you can post them to your hearts content. I'm just looking for advice on how to approach the matter of trying to hopefully get a new teacher. I never said we want her fired, sure that's a dreadful thing to want, especially in the current economic climate! I'd never want anyone to lose their job, especially now...

Smeefa wrote: »

It is VERY very difficult for a young person of 16/17 to approach an intimidating woman who has the ability to dish out punishments and has the support from the principal no matter what she does. A principal will always, always support their employees.

I know you're on my side, but I've gotta tell you this. My friend went into the principals office today and explained to the principal what she got detention for and the principal said she was taking it off her, because she couldn't get detention for her reason.

P.S. The reason was she was at a basketball game with the school, and the teacher didn't know about it so she gave everyone from her class on the team detention, which were my three friends.

P.P.S. We got a new principal this year, which is why she is listening to us aswell I think. Our old principal would of stood by the teacher and said we were ridiculous. This one [at the moment] is listening to us all, and our concerns about anything and everything, even including our complaints about the bathrooms! It's great. We always have toilet roll now. It doesn't run out.

Powerhouse wrote: »

Of course they should be willing to have that view challenged i.e. are the detentions really unfair? What are these three students doing that is different to the rest of the class?

They're doing nothing different. At the start of the year they got off on the wrong foot, and ever since it seems like she's just being unfair to them.

Powerhouse wrote: »

The reality is that we are given scant information about the behaviour of the students which of course is the genesis of Fuinseog's "unhelpful" (but completely reasonable for anyone interested in an actual debate) post.

Personally I have seen too many students swear blind that black is white over the years to not believe a student's opinion cannot be challenged (except for the bits you deem "irrelevant" of course) as you appear to believe.

We're not angels, sure we're 16/17 years of age. You can't expect us to be angels realistically, can you? I'm sure a lot of members on Boards weren't at our age! But we don't cause trouble, and I don't mean me and my friends, I mean the class as a whole. We all see trouble-makers as people who aren't trying in the class, and the whole class is trying. We all work hard in our classes, because we all want to go on to have great jobs that we enjoy.

Feeona wrote: »

As for the 'bullying', she sounds like a typical teacher in that regard (albeit a bit flighty). You say the comment was written in your friend's copy in September, maybe your teacher thought it had been written that day? You also mentioned that 'we were bored to death' as a reason for your friend writing in her copy. Unfortunately that attitude just comes across as juvenile, and you would've have been treated accordingly if you said anything like that to your teacher or principal. Chatting in class is a big no-no also, there is really nothing more annoying than trying to explain something at the top of the class while a rumble of conversation is carrying on at the back. I understand that chatting is probably going on because the teacher isn't explaining things properly, but chatting is still chatting and you must respect the class rules.

Thanks for your response. It was mixed which was great.
Firstly, the teacher knew it was not written on that day. It was at the start of her copy and she had only come across it because she needed a lend of someones copy [which we assumed was for her meeting with the principal, which was also that day].

Secondly, I read what you said about what I said sounding juvenile and I've got to agree. I would never say that to a teacher or the principal, I suppose I may of just have been getting a bit frustrated and I was trying to get my point across. For sounding juvenile, I am sorry. And we don't talk during class, unless it's about how to do the sum. I can quote the teacher from todays class, when she was once again explaining to us how Project Maths has changed the syllabus: "I'm just here to show you how to do the sums and as a guide with this project maths. Really you should be leaning on each other for support. I'm here as a tool for you."

Fuinseog wrote:

maybe the teacher should be judged on the grades the kids get.if the kids get bad grades he or she is a bad teacher, or should the role of home study enter the equation?

Christmas results: There's eighteen in the class. I only speak very regularly to twelve of them. Out of the twelve I speak to, four failed. I personally got 58%, which I found extremely disappointing as, as I've said, I do work hard in school and outside of it. My friends got 62%, 50% and 17%. [Before someone makes the assumption that the one who failed was the biggest, ehem, "trouble maker" as you seem to like saying, she wasn't. She was the one who got 62%]. This was the first Maths test of the year that another one of my best friends passed [yes, I have alot of best friends. I know. I really need to sort that out]. Everyone's grades who passed were between 40 - 65 I think.

Powerhouse wrote:

Incidentally I never said I didn't like the OP's view. Never commented on it either way. What I don't like the fact that the gaps in it cannot be questioned and the implication that dissenting opinion is unacceptable.

If I've missed anything or you want to know more on any situation I'll happily mention it. I'm here looking for honest advice, so I would not change a situation to my own advantage. That would just get me advice I couldn't take, which would get me nowhere. And liars are always caught out anyway.

Powerhouse wrote:

If it was possible/acceptable to question the OP it would be interesting to clarify what precisely in practical terms gettiung the class to "help" involves. But I certainly know in my own case that every time I question a student I am not doing so because I cannot do things myself or I need them to show me how to do things.

Her asking us for help is quite literally her asking us for help. She often cannot figure out the hardest of the maths sums [which baffles me as she's a maths teacher] and says we can "move on, not worry too much about that one and we'll come back to it another day." She also tells us she'll work it out at home and will let us know how to solve it when she gets it. She does sometimes does ask us for "help" because she is getting us to solve the problem the way you're saying you do it, but when it's the hard ones that none of us get she often doesn't get them either.


I must say I never thought that her "winging it" as you are all saying was a problem. She's just going through the homework that we got wrong and figuring it out along the way we thought.


On a lighter note:
Sure, we've got a few classes which I'll probably laugh at looking back at in a few years time. Teaching us the square roots was one [baby stuff that is!]. Another was we were doing a 3-D shapes problem in trigonometry. The teacher was convinced a pyramid had a triangle bottom and we showed her a poster of a pyramid with a square bottom so she believed us! She then decided to check up on our knowledge of 3-D shapes, so she took out these little bags of shapes. While she was naming them all she forgot the name of one of them, and a girl in my class said it was a tetrahedron. Another girl was messing going "ahh miss sure google it!" so she actually did. We didn't think the teacher was serious, being so stuck for a name of a shape. We figured she was messing.When she realised the first girl was right, who told her it was a tetrehedron, she told her "well done." This was something learned in sixth class. It's a bit funny looking back at it I must say, but at the time we were shocked! It'll be a good story for the kids. :rolleyes:

Woah, that took over an hour to quote and reply to! :O :L