This Polish girl!

LegacyUser

Firstly I really like her... So I have been in contact with this girl in work for a while now. We used to text and chat a bit on facebook last year and i felt it wasn't going anywhere really. Then in recent months she
started to make contact again. Anytime we see each other out she would come up to me or if we saw each other across a bar she would be all smiles for me. We got talking again and a few weeks ago I asked her over a text could we meet up (which was wrong choice but anyway) she said yes but she wasn't looking for a boyfriend so we could meet as friends. That was fine I said i would be in contact to arrange something (which I haven't done). That weekend without contacting her we got talking in a club and had a laugh ended up back at her place and luckily for me got to meet all her family!!! but nothing sexual really happened.. We ended up talking for a couple of hours and I left. We talked abit bout her life in Poland, she showed me pictures of her through the years and so on and then she went on about her ex boyfriend and how he treated her so bad and then how all irish guys are only after her for sex. The following morning she contacted to apologies for last night and said she didn't mean to go on about her ex.
So in response to that I asked are we friends or can we ever be more and she said I dont know.... I took this as a maybe and decided to show that I can be trusted and not just there for sex.
A rumour came out that she was pregnant which she is not, which upset her a nice bit and I helped get through it. Which she has appreciated ever since. Last week I had a death in my family and she was there to help me out, checking every day to see how i was coping and so on.
Now I am at the point where I think she wants to go out with me or it could be her been a good friend. If i ask her out and she says no again I will be crushed and could ruin a friendship too.

Honest opinons please!

LegacyUser

Sounds to me like you're completely in the friend zone unfortunately. I think something would have happened that night you went back to hers, even if it was just kissing, if she genuinely was sexually attracted to you.

LegacyUser

OP, speaking as a Polish woman, I feel it's really important that you make yourself aware of the cultural differences that affect your perception of each other.

Polish people go about meeting potential partners and starting new relationships in a very different way than Irish people. The vast majority of Polish women do not kiss/snog a man on a first date, and certainly don't have sex with guys they don't know very well. It's just not how we go about things.

We don't have the concept of "being friend-zoned" either, simply because we tend to start relationships by establishing trust and friendship first. To us, the best candidate for a relationship is someone who has been our trusted, dependable friend for a long time. We have no problems moving on from a friendship to an exclusive relationship. In fact, we prefer it this way.

The eagerness of Irish men to get physically close very soon is foreign, shallow and revolting to us (please forgive the strong words, you did ask for honest opinions). We don't understand it. We think, as your friend has told you, that sex is all you're after. I'm not saying that this is so - I'm just showing you that this is how we perceive it, rightly or wrongly.

OP, the girl clearly likes you and cares for you. She has beautifully supported you in your grief and she allowed you to support her when she needed a friend. You have established a great foundation for a relationship, which you obviously want. All you need to know now is if she wants it too. The best way to find out is to ask her again. Just ask her casually: "Do you remember a while ago when I asked if we could ever be more than friends and you said you didn't know? I was wondering if maybe you feel we have made some progress on that front?".

Or tell her that you would like to have an exclusive relationship with her and ask her how she would feel about it. Sure, you risk a heartache if she feels differently, but I guess you just need to decide if she is worth taking the risk.

LegacyUser

Thanks cultural differences its exactly what i was looking for. I want to respect her and treat her the way she deserves to be treated. when in her place been honest i had to fight every urge not to make a move as I wanted to show her its not the one night stand I am after.

I reckon we are closer to each other than what we were back then. I have been trying to read up on the 'Polish' way,to improve my chances. Honestly I am not a ladies man. I dont sleep with every women with a heart beat, i need to have feelings for them, and this is what I want to prove to her.

In relation to exclusive relationship what do you mean by this in your view? Also what is a typical first date for you?

Thank you once again

LegacyUser

You are very welcome, OP, glad to be of some help.

You mentioned that you had to fight every urge not to make a move, when at her place. And thank goodness you did that, otherwise if you did "make a move" this would probably be the last you would see of her. Of all differences in our cultures, this idea of "making a move on a girl" without getting her permission or even checking if she wants it, is the most disturbing to me (and other Polish girls I've spoken to).

It happened to me, on a few occasions, that an Irish man "made a move" on me, without my permission or even any warning, and every time it happened I felt shocked, nauseated and abused. Now I'm not saying that Irish men are abusers, but because Polish people relate to each other in a very different way than Irish people, this is how it feels to us.

It seems to me that most Irish men don't have the concept of being affectionate without being sexual (I may be wrong about it, but this is what it looks like from my perspective), and almost every physical contact between a man and a woman is sexually charged. To Polish women this feels very uncomfortable, because we, as a culture, have a whole range of physical gestures and behaviours that we use to become familiar with one another and to create a bond with each other, before we decide if we want to be sexually intimate.

In Ireland it only takes a few hours to go from "hi, my name is" to a passionate kiss or even sex. In Poland, a kiss is usually seen as the beginning of an intimate, exclusive relationship and it takes weeks or months to get to that point. Sometimes years. That doesn't mean that we stay physically away from each other or that we don't feel sexual desire while we're getting to know one another. We tend to bond slowly through friendship and affection. And let me tell you, to us, a kiss that almost happened feels just as good as the real thing.

So you see, when you "make a move" on a Polish girl that you barely know, you're doing something that she would share only with a partner in a committed relationship, after careful screening and weeks or months of bonding. It truly comes to us as a nasty shock! Do not do that, please don't. If you want to have a chance to get close to a Polish girl, learn to be affectionate without being sexual first. The sex will come, when it feels right and it will be all the more beautiful, interesting, honest and passionate for that.

Now, about your question about an exclusive relationship. To me, you have an exclusive relationship when you and a girl you like are seeing each other as a couple, you are basically a boyfriend and a girlfriend for each other. It involves friendship, commitment, emotional and sexual intimacy (and exclusivity) and plans for the future together.

About the first date, now. Do not go for the usual dinner or/and drinks. Ideas like that bore us to tears Polish people tend to be very active and adventurous so think of something you can actively do or experience together. You said she showed you loads of pictures of herself – were there any pictures of her doing something you would genuinely like to learn yourself? Do you have some hobbies that she would perhaps like to learn about? If you can't think of anything, ask her to go ice-skating with you – you can't really go wrong with that, especially if neither of you can skate Whatever you chose to do, make sure it's as exciting to you as you want it to be for her. Yeah, think of something you really want to do and invite her along. Casually. And with a smile

Cooking together is another great idea for a date (although maybe not the first one, perhaps the second or third?). Find a recipe for a dish you enjoy but don't know how to make. Invite her to go shopping for the ingredients with you (or do the shopping yourself) and then go home (your place or her, doesn't matter) and have fun trying to figure out how to put it all together. You will make a mess, you will talk and laugh and eventually create something delicious or truly disgusting. I promise you will have a blast either way An invitation to such date sounds more or less like this: “Let's cook something together!” - again, keep it casual and light. And remember, you are not doing it for her. You are doing it for her and for yourself in equal measure. If the idea doesn't appeal to you – do not do it! Once she senses that you're doing things to make (only) her happy, she won't enjoy it.

And by god, don't try to snog her after a date (I hate that word "snog" and all that it represents). A good way to end a date with a Polish girl is to walk her home, tell her what you liked about the date, open your arms and say "a goodbye hug?". Don't go on hugging her first - offer it, wait for her to come to you and then squeeze her tight. Here - your first lesson in non-sexual affection, the Polish way All the best, OP!

BarackPyjama

cultural_differences wrote: »

It happened to me, on a few occasions, that an Irish man "made a move" on me, without my permission or even any warning, and every time it happened I felt shocked, nauseated and abused.

Wow! Considering how appallingly Polish men treat their women, I must say - your opinions shock me. Obviously that's a gross generalisation but, having lived in Poland for many years, I think it's a fair comment. Irish men treat their girlfriends/wives a hell of a lot better than Polish men and egalitarianism is considerably more advanced here than in Poland.

I appreciate the point you're making, believe me. Although I think you're mistaking Western liberalism for rampant, rabid nihilism and misogyny. As an Irishman, I'm highly offended by your opinions. Sorry.

LegacyUser

@BarackPyjama: as this is a PI forum, I understand that it is not the place for me to get into a discussion with you about the things you wrote.

However. I am not surprised that you feel shocked by my words and perceptions. I am as shocked by yours. There is a reason why the experience of another culture has been named "a culture shock".

If you read my posts again, you will see that nowhere do I say that Polish men are somewhat better than Irish men (nor do I think that!). Or that one culture is superior to the other. It's you who's making these judgments. I'm only pointing out that culturally we are familiar with different things and behaviours, and that these differences influence our perception.

As to your suggestion that I presumably consider Irish men as nihilistic and misogynistic (is this what you implied?)... dear aw dear, how did you ever come to that conclusion? It seems to me that you are not offended by my opinions, but by your (baseless) interpretation of them.

Taltos

All let's try to take the heat out of this.

No-one here has said that Polish men are better than Irish or vice-versa. Instead advice has been provided from the Polish viewpoint - which as we would expect is different to the Irish view of things.

Any racial stereotyping/insults here won't be welcome. Let's try to keep our minds open and give the OP the best advice we can on his request - viz how can he convince an woman from Poland that his intentions are honourable.

Remember - per our charter - opinions are welcome and encouraged, once they are constructive and civil to the OP.

Taltos

LegacyUser

Hi there OP,

I'm not Polish, in fact I'm an Irish woman, but one of my best friends here is Polish, we've known each other for years, and have confided in each other about countless dates etc. and I also know her sister & friends. Now while there lots of differences between how the Poles & the Irish go about things, and the type of relationships we look for (i.e. Polish women tend to be more hard ass about demanding commitment than Irish chicks - and they want commitment sooner)... maybe my Polish friends are a bit more worldly than 'cultural_differences' and her friends but I've never heard them being horrified and appalled if the guy who tries to kiss them is someone they wanna kiss!!!
'Sounds to me like you're in friend zone. Sorry. The term might not exist in Polish but the concept certainly does!

But if you wanna know for sure, go for a kiss. It doesn't have to be all that aggressive! <Snip> And I doubt this woman is as much of a delicate flower as has been made out here. Women from different cultures may have different ideas are of when and how to lay down the law, but none of them would let a good thing go if they're really attracted!!! Human nature is universal.

Wompa1

If I was you OP, I'd stick with what cultural_differences is saying. I think others may be getting a little defensive thinking it's making us Irish appear in a bad light but from the Polish women I have known, the majority have been the more steady, take it easy and get to know you type. I have 1 friend who had a 1 night stand with a Polish girl but many more who just tried to court the girls....

If you've been friends with or hung around with Polish women I think it's obvious that there is that different dynamic between men and women there. I'd be suprised if anyone actually disagreed that Ireland has a pretty loose dating scene (or just no dating scene at all!)

LegacyUser

OP, Polish girls are a different breed to Irish women and you should remember that. While Irish women have no problem kissing or even having sex after they first meet someone, Polish women are much more reserved in that sense. Its a difference in culture and when you are with this girl you should keep that in the back of your mind.

With that in mind, you need to throw out everything you know about interacting with Irish girls because it just isn't the same. My advice? Be respectful of her boundaries, don't go in for the snog prematurely, be patient and everything else should fall into place.

Just another thing to note, Polish girls don't drink anywhere near as much as Irish girls (generally) so theres less chance of a drunken 'mistake' if you get me. Keep in mind that if your drunk and think that its a great idea to make a move that shes probably sober and less open to such a move.

I'll echo the comments of the Polish poster and say don't bring her on your first date for drinks or something similar. Polish women are generally a lot more active and outdoor-sy than Irish women and love for example to go hiking so something in that area would be more appropirate

Married 3 years to a Polish girl and never looked back Go for it!

LegacyUser

Wompa1 wrote: »

If I was you OP, I'd stick with what cultural_differences is saying. I think others may be getting a little defensive thinking it's making us Irish appear in a bad light but from the Polish women I have known, the majority have been the more steady, take it easy and get to know you type. I have 1 friend who had a 1 night stand with a Polish girl but many more who just tried to court the girls....

If you've been friends with or hung around with Polish women I think it's obvious that there is that different dynamic between men and women there. I'd be suprised if anyone actually disagreed that Ireland has a pretty loose dating scene (or just no dating scene at all!)

Wompa1, I hope when you say that others are getting a bit defensive about how the Irish appear, that you are not referring to my comment, as I can assure you I replied from experience not some deluded nationalism. I lived abroad for a few years, I've almost always dated foreign myself (including an eastern european) and and I'm married to a foreigner so I can clearly see the problems with the Irish dating scene and don't have a vested interest in defending it. Yes there is a different dynamic, but the girls I know don't necessarily fit the mold as described by cultural_differences. The girls I know are all in relationships with or have dated Irish, and all say they like a 'cheeky Irish guy'. And yes, although it's less common than among Irish, some of them have had one night stands - but I don't judge them for that, do you?

OP, I hope I'm wrong and than slow and steady wins the race. Though I wish people would just take each other as they come a bit more and find the common ground, in stead of stereotyping, cause that's what it really takes for a cross-cultural relationship to work. Believe me, I know what I'm talking about. Anyway, best of luck!

LegacyUser

Thanks Cultural_Differences. I understand where you are coming from and hoping it works.

shellyboo

woodcouch wrote: »

she said yes but she wasn't looking for a boyfriend so we could meet as friends.

So you asked her out and she said no...

woodcouch wrote: »

she went on about her ex boyfriend and how he treated her so bad and then how all irish guys are only after her for sex.

And then she made it clear to you that she wasn't interested (or in Irish men in general, it seems)...

woodcouch wrote: »

I asked are we friends or can we ever be more and she said I dont know...

And then you asked her out again, and she said no. Again. Yeah, she didn't actually SAY no, but anything other than yes is a no.

Is there any way this woman can say no to you that you will actually accept? She's quite clearly not interested.

LegacyUser

Cultural_Difference you know what, what you said turns out to be wrong. Saw the girl out tonight and she went off with one guy that was exactly what she said she hated. To be honest I expected better from here. Don't think I can handle talking to her anymore, cause i like her too much and this is what she does.

LegacyUser

Ah quess she didn't like you buddy but don't beat yourself up, you played it like you were supposed to because generally Polish women are very reserved so cultural_differences was spot on. It was good advice and would have worked on most Polish women but I quess this one is a lot more closer to an Irish women than usual so maybe the more forward route would have worked.

But jesus, if you like her as a person then its pretty shallow to simply stop talking to her just because she didnt like you in THAT way. It seems that she was there for you during a hard time and she could be a very good friend.

Sounds to me like she was right, you did just want to hook up with her and not respect her boundaries if thats how your going to act.

Defiler Of The Coffin

woodcouch wrote: »

Cultural_Difference you know what, what you said turns out to be wrong. Saw the girl out tonight and she went off with one guy that was exactly what she said she hated. To be honest I expected better from here. Don't think I can handle talking to her anymore, cause i like her too much and this is what she does.

Tough break man, perhaps some people just go native quicker than others. In any event chalk this one down to experience, try not to dwell on her too much, keep a positive mental attitude and who knows, the next girl might only be around the corner

LegacyUser

I was texting her this morning just to see what the story was and she said she was very drunk and nothing really happened. But I have now started to accept that she has no feelings in that way I want for me. I will talk to her again whenever we meet but don't think I can talk to her as much at the moment when I feel this way about her. Hopefully these feelings will ease. Its not easy to be close friends with someone you have strong feelings for when they don't feel the same.

I wont lie I want to hook up with her yes but I also want to be with her and treat her right. Once these feelings I have dampen i can see us been good friends. I will never be snarly or rude to her because she doesn't like me in that way. Its not her fault.

ted1

Every girl is different and you can't judge people by their nationalaity. I know of plenty of poles who have ons. And plenty who don't same is true for Irish girls I know.

LegacyUser

ted1 wrote: »

Every girl is different and you can't judge people by their nationalaity. I know of plenty of poles who have ons. And plenty who don't same is true for Irish girls I know.

Thanks for that. Common sense. I find it really strange how some of you are talking about the girl being 'closer to an Irish woman than usual' or 'going native' or even 'maybe the more forward route would have worked'!!!! (no it wouldn't). I'm sorry, but it's nonsensical. What you are actually talking about is a human being who was attracted to one man and not another! Individuals make choices for their own lives; culture is only a guideline, and to not accept people as individuals but only as ambassadors of their culture (as YOU perceive it) is practically racism (putting someone on a pedastal because of their race is called inverse racism and it's not helpful)... sorry, not flaming - I know the posters here don't mean harm but this thread has shown up some ugly unconscious attitudes - it is misogyny?

OP, I'm sorry it don't work out. I hope you are big enough to accept that her choices are not a reflection of her culture or failing to live up to how you perceive her culture, but just accept that sometimes the magic doesn't happen with two individuals. At least now you know. I really feel that when it's right, it also feels easy - not in an 'easy sex' way - but when it's right things just flow. You're obviously ready to meet someone, so I'm sure it will happen soon enough. Personally, I can see why you wouldn't wanna hang around as friends when you have strong feelings; you did make it clear to this girl that you liked her, so I don't think you would be a bad guy or disingenuous for backing away from the friendship now that you've got the full picture. Protect yourself first. Best of luck.

gizmorox

cultural_differences wrote: »

OP, speaking as a Polish woman, I feel it's really important that you make yourself aware of the cultural differences that affect your perception of each other.

Polish people go about meeting potential partners and starting new relationships in a very different way than Irish people. The vast majority of Polish women do not kiss/snog a man on a first date, and certainly don't have sex with guys they don't know very well. It's just not how we go about things.

We don't have the concept of "being friend-zoned" either, simply because we tend to start relationships by establishing trust and friendship first. To us, the best candidate for a relationship is someone who has been our trusted, dependable friend for a long time. We have no problems moving on from a friendship to an exclusive relationship. In fact, we prefer it this way.

The eagerness of Irish men to get physically close very soon is foreign, shallow and revolting to us (please forgive the strong words, you did ask for honest opinions). We don't understand it. We think, as your friend has told you, that sex is all you're after. I'm not saying that this is so - I'm just showing you that this is how we perceive it, rightly or wrongly.

OP, the girl clearly likes you and cares for you. She has beautifully supported you in your grief and she allowed you to support her when she needed a friend. You have established a great foundation for a relationship, which you obviously want. All you need to know now is if she wants it too. The best way to find out is to ask her again. Just ask her casually: "Do you remember a while ago when I asked if we could ever be more than friends and you said you didn't know? I was wondering if maybe you feel we have made some progress on that front?".

Or tell her that you would like to have an exclusive relationship with her and ask her how she would feel about it. Sure, you risk a heartache if she feels differently, but I guess you just need to decide if she is worth taking the risk.

Excellent piece of writing:),fyi: I'm an Irish woman and I totally agree but the hard reality is too many Irish men wouldn't wait and physical chemistry plays a role too,I mean how disappointing would it be if you spent a lot of time getting to know a person then discovered you're not that compatible in the bedroom department?

PseudoFamous

ouzofortwo wrote: »

While Irish women have no problem kissing or even having sex after they first meet someone, Polish women are much more reserved in that sense.

I'm sorry for derailing the thread, but.. eh.. Where the hell are you meeting these Irish women?

jamesjoyce

Think the lesson learned from this thread is, everyone stop generalising about different nationalities. People are individuals with their own traits. Completely proved by the girl the OP was interacting with. This case is completely to do with a girl not fancying a guy and now the OP has realised that. It's nothing to do with polish and Irish cultural differences. Hope the OP has some closure on the situation now.

LegacyUser

Just to wrap this up. I will hope to be friends with her but will have to back off it for now just until I get over the bitter disappointment in my head first and move on. I wont treat her bad just because she doesnt feel anything for me, not a fault of hers. She is actually a good friend and is a nice person in general. To be fair she did give me subtle no's but I was too love struck to see them and took them as a positive just because I wanted this to happen. There will be no hard feelings and plenty more fish in the sea so to speak.

Thanks for the comments all appreciated. To the future

Maple

Best of luck, OP

Thread closed.

Maple