The EU could potentially destroy our country

TaxationTheft

Those who would give up Essential Liberty
to purchase a little Temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Benjamin Franklin

Take a look at the highest GDP per capita countries throughout the world. Notice one simple fact. Most of these countries aren't part of the Eurozone. The Eurozone is a construct intented to remove your civil liberties slowly through blanket laws and regulations.

The EU ignores the fact a country is an independant and unique country, not some subset of the EU police state. What the big banks and politicians have done to this country is constitutionally illegal.

Jesus Wept

Most countries in the world aren't in the Eurozone.

TaxationTheft

The-Rigger wrote: »

Most countries in the world aren't in the Eurozone.

Rightly so.

Seachmall

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them."
- Patrick Henry


"The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing."
- John Adams

This is fun

What are we discussing?

Snakeblood

'I like big butts and I cannot lie'
Sir Mixalot

Ghandee

"he whom goes to bed with itchy arse, shall wake up with smelly fingers"


-Ghandee*

phil1nj

TaxationTheft wrote: »

Those who would give up Essential Liberty
to purchase a little Temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

.

So can I give up Temporary Liberty to purchase a little Essential Safety then?
Or is it just essentially a temporary safe liberty I would be purchasing in the long run

Fear Uladh

Thanks Jim, I really love your music.

Bullseye1

We don't need any outside assistance we have destroyed the country ourselves by voting in for three times Fianna Fáil and because we all wanted to own more than one property.

TaxationTheft

Fear Uladh wrote: »

Thanks Jim, I really love your music.

Naw, not quite as nutty as Jim:) 9/11 wasn't an inside job!

28064212

TaxationTheft wrote: »

Take a look at the highest GDP per capita countries throughout the world. Notice one simple fact. Most of these countries aren't part of the Eurozone. The Eurozone is a construct intented to remove your civil liberties slowly through blanket laws and regulations.

So I went and had a look. Turns out, 14 (of the 17 Eurozone countries) are in the top 32. That sounds pretty high to me

TaxationTheft wrote: »

The EU ignores the fact a country is an independant and unique country, not some subset of the EU police state. What the big banks and politicians have done to this country is constitutionally illegal.

Point out what actions have contravened what articles in the constitution. Here's a link and everything: http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/upload/static/256.htm

force eleven

Well, Noonan already saying next referendum will be about whether we stay in the Euro or not. That's not what was being decided upon last week I thought?

So, another bully boy tactic from government to scare people into voting for a one government superstate Europe run from Brussels with Van Rompuy-Merkel-Sarkozy and a train of other,unelected neo federalists in tow to take over.

We've gone way too far with this fiscal union lark, its time we voted on whether or not we stay in the EU and be assimilated or stay free and independent, and get ourselves self sufficient again and be able to sell as much food as we like to whoever we like, and get in multinationals at a lower tax rate to encourage them in and decrease unemployment.

People need to wake up as to where this is all going, if you care.

Fago!

Eat the pudding eat the pudding eat the pudding eat the pudding eat the pudding eat the pudding eat the pudding eat the pudding eat the pudding eat the pudding eat the pudding eat the pudding eat the pudding eat the pudding eat the pudding eat the pudding eat the pudding

El Weirdo

They've already outlawed size 2, it seems.

The bastards! I won't bow down to the man!

phil1nj

When the **** did we get pudding?

TaxationTheft

Bullseye1 wrote: »

We don't need any outside assistance we have destroyed the country ourselves by voting in for three times Final Fael and because we all wanted to own more than one property.

Wrong. The bailout is a european problem, not just an Irish problem. If Anglo failed on it's own and unconstitutional loan paybacks weren't introduced, this country could have had a chance.

The EU superstate is the primary source of our problems. They issued the loans and changed the conditions. Not our banks. The money had to come from an outside source eventually.

Bullseye1

I'm glad Noonan is making tha statement. It's a shot not only across the bows of the EU but also to those people who see us prosper outside the EU.

Bullseye1

TaxationTheft wrote: »

Wrong. The bailout is a european problem, not an Irish problem. If Anglo failed on it's own merit and unconstitutional loanpaybacks weren't introduced, this country could have had a chance.

The EU superstate is the primary source of our problems. They issued the loans and changed the conditions. Not our banks. The money had to come from an outside source eventually.

But our elected representatives along with rogue bankers and cowboy developers have destroyed this country. Your title is too late.

prinz

TaxationTheft wrote: »

The Eu could potentially destroy our country

It could leave us back to the state we were in before we joined alright.

TaxationTheft wrote: »

The Eurozone is a construct intented to remove your civil liberties slowly through blanket laws and regulations

Just what civil liberties has the Eurozone removed? For that matter what civil liberties has the E.U. removed?

super_furry

Could you clearly and concisely line out the ways in which "The EU could destroy our country"? Taking into account that answers which involved reptilians will not be accepted.

TaxationTheft

Bullseye1 wrote: »

But our elected representatives along with rogue bankers and cowboy developers have destroyed this country. Your title is too late.

Which in turn leads to EU written loans being paid out to the bankers and politicians on the basis of fraud. If the ECB could not reasonably forsee the fact that the loans could not be knowingly payed back under reasonable conditions, I would consider that to be an act of fraud.

As I said before, the money the bankers and politicians recieved had to have originated from an outside source. The ECB. Why were bank loans issued so liberally?

Possibly because it may have led to the mess we are in? I am not naive enough to believe the EU overlords could not have forseen something like this happen down the line. At least I hope it isn't intentional.

Fear Uladh

Referendum posters: Europe for Jobs.

phil1nj

super_furry wrote: »

Could you clearly and concisely line out the ways in which "The EU could destroy our country"? Taking into account that answers which involved reptilians will not be accepted.

VigoTowardstheEnd.png

Guess that rules out my theory.

michael-noonan-FMG_994268d.jpg

Nodin

TaxationTheft wrote: »

Take a look at the highest GDP per capita countries throughout the world. Notice one simple fact. Most of these countries aren't part of the Eurozone. The Eurozone is a construct intented to remove your civil liberties slowly through blanket laws and regulations.

.................

Is there a cutback in font sizes now as well?

7Sins

I'm done playing European, can I go home now?

ejmaztec

TaxationTheft wrote: »

Naw, not quite as nutty as Jim:) 9/11 wasn't an inside job!

That's it, your theory has lost all credibility now.

RichieC

TaxationTheft wrote: »

Those who would give up Essential Liberty
to purchase a little Temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Benjamin Franklin

Take a look at the highest GDP per capita countries throughout the world. Notice one simple fact. Most of these countries aren't part of the Eurozone. The Eurozone is a construct intented to remove your civil liberties slowly through blanket laws and regulations.

The EU ignores the fact a country is an independant and unique country, not some subset of the EU police state. What the big banks and politicians have done to this country is constitutionally illegal.

I happen to think using GDP as a measure of greatness is a way of hiding other more important problems.

Threads like this really make me laugh! :rolleyes:

It's as if fixing the Euro, EU or what ever is going to fix the root cause of the shíte we're in.

The root of the current economic mess is;

An economy based on perpetual growth cannot exist in a world with finite resources, until economists, politicians & everyone else addresses that, nothing will solve the issues.

It's a bit like having your house renovated while ignoring the coastal erosion that will soon remove the foundations.

http://www.linux.bideford.devon.sch.uk/blogs/seaforlife/wp-content/uploads/house_cliff.jpg

Latchy

7Sins wrote: »

I'm done playing European, can I go home now?

Your a pean ...I'm a peeing...Yougoslavia ...I go slavia

prinz

http://imgur.com/xVauM

TaxationTheft

Deleted User wrote: »

Threads like this really make me laugh! :rolleyes:

It's as if fixing the Euro, EU or what ever is going to fix the root cause of the shíte we're in.

Exactly. Nothing will change if the EU continues to change the game. Where exactly did all this money from the last 30+ years come from? Berties bank account? If the EU gave a **** about Ireland, they would not have let the IMF come here to financially rape every individual citizen.

The EU is the original source of our problem! Corrupt goombeen politicians didn't just take the money from their back pockets. The Dealer has to come into the equation somewhere down the line.

TaxationTheft

phil1nj wrote: »

When the **** did we get pudding?

When Sarkozy says so.

biko

Since the EU hasn't destroyed Ireland yet, and probably won't either, this is a theoretical matter imo.
Here you can choose between Political Theory and EU Politics.

tonycascarino

''Yes for Jobs, Yes for Lisbon''

sensibleken

Sure beats working in the EU army for €1.84 an hour like we all do now.

TaxationTheft

prinz wrote: »

It could leave us back to the state we were in before we joined alright.

Eventually, we would be better off. I would rather that than 20 years of IMF skullduggery.

prinz wrote: »

Just what civil liberties has the Eurozone removed? For that matter what civil liberties has the E.U. removed?

The right to object to this nonsense. Something the EU won't allow. None of us signed up for this ****.

TaxationTheft

I still haven't seen any pudding yet =_=

Moar free cheese.

Morlar

I think we are in for the mother of all scaremongering campaigns. Again.

Biggins

The Euro Is Not Aiding European Harmony and Prosperity.

The problem is that European leaders felt having a single currency (the Euro) was a natural extension of this ideal of economic and political integration. Southern European economies were particularly keen to gain the benefits of being tied to the German economy. (Italy was one of strongest supporters of Euro). Countries felt joining the Euro would be an easy ticket to low interest rates, low inflation and high economic growth. (in fact the opposite has occurred).

The EU were so keen to go ahead with the single currency that their own 'Maastricht Criteria' were pushed aside to let everyone join. (In 2000, the UK was actually one of few countries who met Maastricht Criteria, though we decided not to join). In the case of Greece the decision to ignore these criteria would prove most damaging.

The problem with the Euro is that it is fundamentally flawed, and because of these fundamental flaws it has an in built deflationary bias which is promoting low growth, high unemployment and increasing division between the different regions in the EU.


Fundamental Flaws of the Euro

No Lender of Last Resort. This means liquidity crisis come quickly and with great force. It is why Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Italy, Spain (and more to come) have see such a devastating rise in borrowing costs. If the UK had been in the Euro, the same would have happened to us. Problems of Euro in recession

Uncompetitive Countries. Countries in the south of Europe have seen a rise in inflation relative to Germany. This has left them uncompetitive, leading to lower exports and lower growth. But, because they are in the Euro, they can't devalue to restore competitiveness. They are left with sluggish growth.

Austerity. The response to the EU debt crisis has been to push spending cuts on country. No matter how steep the spending cuts, these have singularly failed to reassure bond markets. Bond yields have continued to rise regardless. THe only thing spending cuts have achieved is to push the south of Europe into a potentially damaging recession, lower tax revenues and higher debt to GDP. IN response the European bureaucrats and leaders shout 'more austerity'. The outcome is unemployment, recession and greater disharmony.

Not an Optimal Currency Area - geographical immobilities

No real fiscal union - only grudging promises of help


* More: Problems of the Euro.

The Germans don't want to bailout southern countries who have run up large budget deficits.
The south don't want to be stuck in a deflationary trap.

Both, are right. It shouldn't be like this. With the single currency and common monetary policy, we only have a recipe for falling living standards and increased social division. This doesn't help Europe. It is the Euro and the failings of the ECB which is threatening the stability of Europe.

http://econ.economicshelp.org/

---

Some other interesting stuff on the above site:

Irish GNP

Ireland has been one of more 'successful' countries which has embarked on austerity, but this shows GNP is still significantly below pre-crisis levels (when real GNP was growing at an average rate of close to 5% a year)

Budget Deficit. Higher taxes and lower spending will lead to an improvement in the government's budget deficit. This will help improve public finances in the long term.

However, if austerity measures cause lower economic growth, the government will also see a fall in cyclical tax revenues. e.g. increasing tax rates, should increase revenue. But, if higher taxes cause a recession, there will be less people working and so income tax revenue may actually fall. Also, if austerity measures cause unemployment, it will require higher government spending on benefits.

For example, the UK's budget deficit fell slower than expected. This was partly because growth forecasts proved overly-optimistic. The austerity measures led to a slowdown in growth.


What Determines the Impact of Austerity?

Labour market flexibility. If labour markets are flexible, it may be easier to cut wages, and labour costs. This may make it easier to restore competitiveness and restore economic growth. However, if there is great resistance to lower labour costs, it will be much harder to restore competitiveness.

What Spending is Cut? If a government cuts spending by raising the retirement age to 70, then this will not lead to lower growth. In fact it could help increase labour supply and increase productivity. However, if the government cut spending on current infrastructure investment, this will have a much greater impact on reducing domestic demand and lead to lower economic growth.

Monetary policy. Austerity involves lower domestic demand. However, if monetary policy can be loosened (e.g. lower interest rates or increased money supply) then the deflationary effects of spending cuts can be offset. For example, in the Euro, countries like Greece have fiscal austerity, but there is no corresponding loosening of monetary policy (e.g. the ECB increased interest rates in early 2011 and didn't pursue any quantitative easing). By contrast, the UK has more flexibility because the Bank of England pursued quantitative easing.

Exchange Rate. Austerity is not as damaging if a country can devalue the exchange rate. This devaluation helps to restore competitiveness much quicker than relying on internal devaluation. The depreciation helps boost export demand. Countries in the Euro, can't devalue and so have to rely solely on internal devaluation to restore competitiveness.

Global Growth. Austerity is not as damaging if the rest of the world economy is doing well. If global growth is strong, export demand will be strong. However, if all countries are experiencing a recession, then deflationary fiscal policy will have a greater impact in reducing domestic demand.

Central Bank Intervention. Countries in the Euro, without a lender of last resort, are having to cut spending much quicker than countries outside the Euro. This is because bond yields on Euro debt has risen very quickly because markets fear liquidity shortages.

prinz

TaxationTheft wrote: »

The right to object to this nonsense. Something the EU won't allow. None of us signed up for this ****.

We look set for a referendum, so eh no. Seeing as how we elected those who went to the negotiations and gave them a mandate to do that on our behalf, again no. Next example?

TaxationTheft

TaxationTheft wrote: »

Exactly. Nothing will change if the EU continues to change the game. Where exactly did all this money from the last 30+ years come from? Berties bank account? If the EU gave a **** about Ireland, they would not have let the IMF come here to financially rape every individual citizen.

The EU is the original source of our problem! Corrupt goombeen politicians didn't just take the money from their back pockets. The Dealer has to come into the equation somewhere down the line.

You completely missed my point, it's the end of growth that's screwed an economic system that depends on growth to function.

Even China is seeing the end of the growth!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16173885

China's economic policymakers have pledged to guarantee growth in 2012, despite an "extremely grim" global outlook for the year ahead.
After their annual closed-door economic meeting in Beijing, the country's leaders declared that monetary policy would remain "prudent".
They said the currency, the yuan, would remain "basically stable".

Just like a plant ceases to grow when the soil is depleted of nutrients, the economies of the world cease to grow when the supply of fossil fuels become limited or too expensive, what we are seeing are the affects of this problem.

TaxationTheft

Deleted User wrote: »

You completely missed my point, it's the end of growth that's screwed an economic system that depends on growth to function.

Even China is seeing the end of the growth!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16173885


Just like a plant ceases to grow when the soil is depleted of nutrients, the economies of the world cease to grow when the supply of fossil fuels become limited or too expensive, what we are seeing are the affects of this problem.

The slowth of growth could be attributed to our lack of control over our own inflation rate. If the whole eurozone goes down, it takes each country within it down too. At least if we could control our inflation rate, we could have adjusted it to anticipate any slump/increase in growth. The EURO does not allow this at all.

The reason growth has slowed is mainly down the the fact the EU is artificially keeping the inflation rate low. The euro is designed to moderate actual growth and prosperity through high taxation and redistribution of wealth. This in turn leads to a weakened and fragile economy.