Jaw-dropping depreciation

alfa beta

A few months back my wife bought a Renault Laguna Coupe.

At the time she bought it, it was 18 months old (so still had half its warranty left to run). It had only 35,000 km on the clock and to all intents and purposes felt like new to drive. Overall, it was in excellent condition.

The engine is a lovely 3.0 litre Diesel V6 - loads of torque and acceleration. The gearbox is a very smooth 6 speed auto/tiptronic. The car is equipped with all the electronic gadgets you could want - sat nav, climate conrtol, bluetooth, electric everyting, keyless entry/starting etc - pretty much everything. It also has 4-wheel steering (and having driven the model without this you really notice the difference).

So basically its a cracking car - and in my opinion one of the nicest looking cars on the road at the mo. (Not a fan of the suspension set up though!)

Anyway here's the thing. The list price for our particular version of the car when new was over €60,000. We bought it 18 months later for €19,000 (from a main dealer and without haggling - coz I'm rubbish at it!!).

Now I know it's a Renault and all (and if buying new I know you'd do a bit better than paying list price) - but still...

I was and still am shocked at a level of depreciation that amounts to over 66% after 18 months.

So now, I'm back in the market. Next year I'll want to change my lovely old 1999 Alfa GTV for something that'll see me through the next decade!! And I was wondering if people here had any recommendations when it comes to picking up a 'depreciation bargain' - ie: a car that's maybe two to four years old (or maybe a bit older with low mileage) and that's lost a heap of value since new due to whatever - large petrol engine, high road tax, impracticality etc....

I don't (and won't) do much mileage. I just like cars that are 'interesting' - and I also don't mind paying relatively high road tax (provided the car is cheap to buy in the first place).

I was thinking coupe (along the lines of 350z maybe) but I'm open to anything if I feel I'm getting value for money - also, I'm not brand biased in the slightest - much more concerned with how a car drives and looks as opposed the badge on the front.

So - there you go!!!!
Whaddya think?

langdang

RX8?

Fizman

Get a 335i. Insane depreciation. See below.

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201131203714894

Twin-go

Since you're coming from an Alfa how about this? Over €45k new now less than €7k and only 54k km on the clock. :cool:

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Alfa-Romeo/GT/3.2-CM-S/201135204202823/advert?channel=CARS

Or Something a bit newer. I think these where close to €70k new. Now 4 years old for less than €20.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Alfa-Romeo/Brera/3.2-4x4-/213221496140260/advert?channel=CARS&featuredListingClickThru=true

166man

Twin-go wrote: »

Since you're coming from an Alfa how about this? Over €45k new now less than €7k and only 54k km on the clock. :cool:

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Alfa-Romeo/GT/3.2-CM-S/201135204202823/advert?channel=CARS

Or Something a bit newer. I think these where close to €70k new. Now 4 years old for less than €20.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Alfa-Romeo/Brera/3.2-4x4-/213221496140260/advert?channel=CARS&featuredListingClickThru=true

Wouldn't be recommending the Bera with the 3.2 and 4x4. Firstly it's not the proper Alfa V6, it's some crap GM yoke and nowhere near as nice as the older engine. Secondly the 4x4 adds even more weight to an already heavy car. The FWD 2.2jts is a better bet, having been in the two cars.

Might I recommend a GTA 147 from the UK? Or a 166?

alfa beta

alfa beta wrote: »

.............. ie: a car that's maybe two to four years old (or maybe a bit older with low mileage) and that's lost a heap of value since new due to whatever - large petrol engine, high road tax, impracticality etc.....................

I was thinking coupe (along the lines of 350z maybe) but I'm open to anything if I feel I'm getting value for money - also, I'm not brand biased in the slightest - much more concerned with how a car drives and looks as opposed the badge on the front............

166man wrote: »

.................. Or a 166?

I'm struggling how a 166 could be shoehorned into the criteria, the only part it fits into is that it would have lost a heap of value since new. The OP has mentioned the like of a 350z after all

alfa beta

166man wrote: »

Wouldn't be recommending the Bera with the 3.2 and 4x4. Firstly it's not the proper Alfa V6, it's some crap GM yoke and nowhere near as nice as the older engine. Secondly the 4x4 adds even more weight to an already heavy car. The FWD 2.2jts is a better bet, having been in the two cars.

Might I recommend a GTA 147 from the UK? Or a 166?

That's interesting - tbh I don't really 'get' the brera at all - and was surprised when it apeared alongside the GT - didn't know about the engine though - assumed it would've been an alfa engine - thanks for the info.

alfa beta

RoverJames wrote: »

I'm struggling how a 166 could be shoehorned into the criteria, the only part it fits into is that it would have lost a heap of value since new. The OP has mentioned the like of a 350z after all

...perhaps 166man is trying to sell his 166 and that's why he subtly dropped it in to the mix....keep an eye out for a new user on boards called 'man'

(I did say I was open to all suggestions btw - I was driving a toyota hilux the other day and I even liked that - as I said 'interesting' and 'cheaper than you might think' are the main criteria.)

GavMan

Is there a budget?

Petrol 6 series anyone? should be able to pick up an 07 (and probably an 08 one soon) for under 20K

BostonB

The Bera isn't meant to be much of a drivers car from what I've read.

alfa beta

GavMan wrote: »

Is there a budget?

Not really - it's more about getting good value for money.

Saying that, I guess the 20k mark would be top end.

Never drove a 6 series - they do look the business though.

RobAMerc

Fizman wrote: »

Get a 335i. Insane depreciation. See below.

http://www.driving.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=201131203714894

In fairness there are a heap of reasons that car is cheap to be fair. Red leather being one, a 335i non msport is another ( I think msport e92 was available in 07 ) and I think in 335i form auto might hold against it ( not to me mind )

I'm also not at all shocked the OP's laguna lost so much of its value - you'd have to be fookin insane to buy a car aimed at the image concious without a top end brand badge on the front - no matter how nice it was

ardmacha

you'd have to be fookin insane to buy a car aimed at the image concious without a top end brand badge on the front - no matter how nice it was

Absolutely when you buy it brand new. Buying almost new after savage depreciation is not a bad plan at all.

Padraig Mor

From personal experience.........any petrol Lexus. I have a GS300. This would have cost circa €75,000 when new in 2005. I bought it for region of €15k in June last year, thinking it's depreciation would slow at that stage. Nope! Having checked around, I reckon I'd now be lucky to get €6k for it (if I could sell it at all) - and that's in great condition with full history! Looking at Carzone, you could get a 2007 model for under €13k, or a 2008 for under €17k - remember, these cars have pretty much every luxury you could ask for in the sector and are hugely reliable.

Stepping up in class, 2007 LS460s are now approaching €20k territory - these were €130k new!

RobAMerc

I think to be fair we are basically talking about anything with a bigger than 2.0 engine really. The tax system here is very unfair and people are unwilling to pay it only the ones who can afford 150k in the first place don't mind. ( its the depreciation that will get them )

E39MSport

What something (car or otherwise) previously cost is irrelevant imo.

Padraig Mor

E39MSport wrote: »

What something (car or otherwise) previously cost is irrelevant imo.

Well if you're talking depreciation, it's obviously relevant!

E39MSport

You can't buy depreciation, it's not an attribute of anything.

From what I read, the OP goes on about depreciation then get to the point which is in fact a quest for an 'interesting' car.

What anything used to cost is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with what it is or what it costs in today's market.

BostonB

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Well if you're talking depreciation, it's obviously relevant!

Not to the next owner.

GavMan

E39MSport wrote: »

You can't buy depreciation, it's not an attribute of anything.

From what I read, the OP goes on about depreciation then get to the point which is in fact a quest for an 'interesting' car.

What anything used to cost is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with what it is or what it costs in today's market.

That attitude is really only applicable if you view a car (or anything you might sell on) as a consumable.

A car really is an asset so depreciation should really be factored into it

alfa beta

E39MSport wrote: »

What something (car or otherwise) previously cost is irrelevant imo.

Yes but at a very basic point of view it does give an indication of the quality/value of the car when new - and therefore gives you a basis upon which to measure the value for money you're getting when buying secondhand. Its only one factor to be taken into account in the second hand market - but I wouldn't regard it as an irrelevant one.

E39MSport

Perhaps thats at the heart of this.

I certinaly don't see a car as an asset. That sounds mental to me.

I don't think the OP is looking for an asset either. More like a luxobarge that someone once saw as an asset and quickly realised it is a machine with an derived market value

E39MSport

alfa beta wrote: »

Yes but at a very basic point of view it does give an indication of the quality/value of the car when new - and therefore gives you a basis upon which to measure the value for money you're getting when buying secondhand. Its only one factor to be taken into account in the second hand market - but I wouldn't regard it as an irrelevant one.

Jaysus, this hurts

coolbeans

Something like this perhaps? Natuarally the 3.0 would be preferable but the facelifted versions are rare.

166man

alfa beta wrote: »

...perhaps 166man is trying to sell his 166 and that's why he subtly dropped it in to the mix....keep an eye out for a new user on boards called 'man'

(I did say I was open to all suggestions btw - I was driving a toyota hilux the other day and I even liked that - as I said 'interesting' and 'cheaper than you might think' are the main criteria.)

To be honest I really wish I had a 166 to sell in the first place! If that's too big then a 147/156 GTA from the UK could be an option.

@RJ Well the OP asked for a depreciation bargain, large petrol engine and clearly the OP is an Alfa fan so why not a V6 166? Seems like an ok suggestion to me. He also says he would be open to all suggestions too.

pajo1981

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Lexus/LS460/201132203858362/advert?channel=CARS

Would luuurve one of these...

Marcusm

GavMan wrote: »

Is there a budget?

Petrol 6 series anyone? should be able to pick up an 07 (and probably an 08 one soon) for under 20K

Deerpark motors has a 645 for 12k or so. No connections etc etc.

E39MSport

E39MSport wrote: »

..............

I certinaly don't see a car as an asset. That sounds mental to me...............

Loooooooooooooney to me too

166man wrote: »

...........

@RJ Well the OP asked for a depreciation bargain, large petrol engine and clearly the OP is an Alfa fan so why not a V6 166? Seems like an ok suggestion to me. He also says he would be open to all suggestions too.

I didn't get the impression he was going the bangernomics route

Bigcheeze

Padraig Mor wrote: »

From personal experience.........any petrol Lexus. I have a GS300. This would have cost circa €75,000 when new in 2005. I bought it for region of €15k in June last year, thinking it's depreciation would slow at that stage. Nope! Having checked around, I reckon I'd now be lucky to get €6k for it (if I could sell it at all) - and that's in great condition with full history! Looking at Carzone, you could get a 2007 model for under €13k, or a 2008 for under €17k - remember, these cars have pretty much every luxury you could ask for in the sector and are hugely reliable.

Stepping up in class, 2007 LS460s are now approaching €20k territory - these were €130k new!

I tried to convince myself I'd like a GS300 because of the depreciation, luxury and reliability but every time I see the rear, I just think of a Carina E.

Presumably the depreciation on the hybrids is a lot lower?

unkel

Someone bought a €60k Renault Laguna?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUKdaaw38wU

OP - anything with a big petrol engine should be considered

Padraig Mor

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Presumably the depreciation on the hybrids is a lot lower?

Nope! In fact lately it seems to be worse!

Funfair

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Nissan/350Z/Mint---1/201135204181194/advert?channel=CARS

07 Nissan 350z with 16000 miles for €11,950

alfa beta

unkel wrote: »

Someone bought a €60k Renault Laguna?

lol - they didn't really - coz a year and a half after the car was first registered (ie: at the point when we bought it for 19) the only previous registered owner was the guy who ran the Renault dealership himself (and I bet you he didn't land out 60k for it!!)

RobAMerc

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Presumably the depreciation on the hybrids is a lot lower?

In fairness it would be if the Motor Tax was a lot lower on them but the Lexus idea of a Hybrid is to get v8 performance from a v6 - something which should be lauded by all ! Rock on Lexus sytle hybrids I say ! ( but make them good to drive )

knifey_spoonie

As someone who got to drive a 450h for the first time recently.....DO IT.You wont see more than 30MPG, but the are suprisingly quick, super comfortable and quite. Also the level of spec is incredable.

For Forks Sake

E39MSport wrote: »

What something (car or otherwise) previously cost is irrelevant imo.

Tell that to Rathdown Motors. Every bloody ad has the original price of the car on there...http://www.rathdownmotors.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=search :rolleyes:

Padraig Mor

RobAMerc wrote: »

In fairness it would be if the Motor Tax was a lot lower on them but the Lexus idea of a Hybrid is to get v8 performance from a v6 - something which should be lauded by all ! Rock on Lexus sytle hybrids I say ! ( but make them good to drive )

+1. People forget that the 450H is 350 bhp! Incredibly cheap, low mileage, one on DoneDeal here - bones of €80k depreciation! That one also seems to have every option boxed ticked.

Bigus

I win
€ 170000 new 29k now and a nice car to boot and cheaper than one in uk even without vrt and will last for 30 years never mind 10, only thing is 110k miles but sure that was up and down to kildare an the naas road i'd say, given the KE reg

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2787327

TheZ

Bigus wrote: »

I win
€ 170000 new 29k now and a nice car to boot and cheaper than one in uk even without vrt and will last for 30 years never mind 10, only thing is 110k miles but sure that was up and down to kildare an the naas road i'd say, given the KE reg

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2787327

Original price matters in the sense that
repairs, service, parts, tyres are related to the original price and not the second hand price

Would that not be an expensive car to own if anything needs replacing/fixing?

Jimdagym

Bigus wrote: »

I win
€ 170000 new 29k now and a nice car to boot and cheaper than one in uk even without vrt and will last for 30 years never mind 10, only thing is 110k miles but sure that was up and down to kildare an the naas road i'd say, given the KE reg

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2787327

Thats a serious amount of beige to be looking at on the dash every day...

ofcork

The problem is alot of these cars were bought in the boom so new prices were higher than what they should have been.

heate

ofcork wrote: »

The problem is alot of these cars were bought in the boom so new prices were higher than what they should have been.

Well not quite! VRT actually has since gone up on the Porsche and consequently so did the price - though this has been reduced as the new cars c02 is down bellow 225g/km.
We didn't pay boom prices for cars we paid the price that the distributor set including VRT and vat which more often than not were the same as UK cars (disregarding the taxes that is)

And the GS450 only one thing put the golfing set off buying them new and that was well not enough room in the boot for the golfing equipment. If I'm buying a luxury car I need a carnivorousness trunk to store all my stuff.

galwaytt

BostonB wrote: »

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Well if you're talking depreciation, it's obviously relevant!

Not to the next owner.

The last owner, the seller, you mean.......buyer doesn't give a monkey's how much you did, or did not, lose......

166man

Bigus wrote: »

I win
€ 170000 new 29k now and a nice car to boot and cheaper than one in uk even without vrt and will last for 30 years never mind 10, only thing is 110k miles but sure that was up and down to kildare an the naas road i'd say, given the KE reg

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2787327

An automatic Porsche 911 with 110k miles? No thanks I'd spend €30k better than that no offence intended Bigus!:D

Bigus

166man wrote: »

An automatic Porsche 911 with 110k miles? No thanks I'd spend €30k better than that no offence intended Bigus!:D

None taken , show me a 30k better car, that isn't a poxy alfa.... no offence but i don't spend more than 500 euro if i'm buying an alfa and that's only if it has a lump of tax and NCT, and fuel in the tank .:D sure why else would you drive one.

Wait til we see what the op says about the Porsche before casting aspersions, it certainly fits the value for money criteria in relation to value for money now vs original price and he doesn't mind big tax and he doesn't do big miles so in 10 years time that Porsche will have average miles and still be worth 15k.

Bigus

TheZ wrote: »

Would that not be an expensive car to own if anything needs replacing/fixing?

So what .... its a 170k Almost Current model Porsche for peanuts just because of high miles.
Cost less in maintainence and depreciation than a 30k New passat when you throw depreciation into the cost.

alpina

In reality it would be hard to justify any car over 3000cc first registered prior to July '08, even if you got it for free! If you were to keep it for 10 years you'd hand over at least €16,830 in car tax(before subsequent increases) :eek:That's just plain ridiculous, so you manage to get that BMW/MB/Jag/Audi etc you always drooled over for what you now consider great value, that's why, add €16K to it...:(

listermint

alpina wrote: »

In reality it would be hard to justify any car over 3000cc first registered prior to July '08, even if you got it for free! If you were to keep it for 10 years you'd hand over at least €16,830 in car tax(before subsequent increases) :eek:That's just plain ridiculous, so you manage to get that BMW/MB/Jag/Audi etc you always drooled over for what you now consider great value, that's why, add €16K to it...:(

That makes no sense buddy, in fact an E92 M3 of 07 vintage is cheaper to tax than an E92 M3 of '08 vintage. By alot!


I know which one id buy..... Do your sums again.

alpina

Am talking about some of the general reasons/explanations for the luxury barge falling so much in value, yes I guess we could nit pick all day if we want to pick certain cars.
In general...:)

alpina

alpina wrote: »

Am talking about some of the general reasons/explanations for the luxury barge falling so much in value, yes I guess we could nit pick all day if we want to pick certain cars.
In general...:)

Pre 08 decent engined petrol cars are cheaper to tax than post 08 decent engined cars. They way you mention to add €16k to your luxobarge cost suggests post 08 cars are f all to tax, they aren't

166man

Bigus wrote: »

None taken , show me a 30k better car, that isn't a poxy alfa.... no offence but i don't spend more than 500 euro if i'm buying an alfa and that's only if it has a lump of tax and NCT, and fuel in the tank .:D sure why else would you drive one.

Wait til we see what the op says about the Porsche before casting aspersions, it certainly fits the value for money criteria in relation to value for money now vs original price and he doesn't mind big tax and he doesn't do big miles so in 10 years time that Porsche will have average miles and still be worth 15k.

There are many car's better than that for around €30k these days

Here's a few examples that aren't Alfa's

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/S5/S5-COUPE/813232521453660/advert?channel=CARS

Audi S5 with 26k miles for just over budget.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/RS4/4.2-FSI-/201136204303683/advert?channel=CARS

Audi RS4 with 40k miles for €30k.

You could also have a new shape M3 or old shape M5 for under €30k. This could go on for a while so I will stop there.

That porsche does certainly fir the OP's criteria of value but the auto would really put me off it. Good find though