Obtaining a UK driving licence

tuxy

Hey, my brother is moving to England to work. He has been driving on on a provisional in Ireland. Is he entitled to apply for a provisional over there? Or must he wait until he is in the country for a set time?
He knows being unaccompanied on a provisional over there is unacceptable but has a few friends over there who have full licences so it he should be ok to practice his driving.

pitachu

tuxy wrote: »

He knows being unaccompanied on a provisional over there is unacceptable but has a few friends over there who have full licences so it he should be ok to practice his driving.

It may worth taking a look at this page, it outlines some fo the process around being/becoming a lerner driver in the uk and might prove to be a good starting point:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/LearnerAndNewDrivers/LearningToDriveOrRide/DG_4022661

One thing to note, and I don't know how old your brother's friend are, is that "the accompanying driver must be over the age of 21 and must have held (and still hold) a full licence, in the relevant vehicle category, for three years".

The police in the UK would see a contravention of this as exacrtly the same as being un accompanied.

Hope this helps,
P

barura

Why not get a full license over here? He'd be much less restricted if he started his provisional before the rules changed last May.

tuxy

barura wrote: »

Why not get a full license over here? He'd be much less restricted if he started his provisional before the rules changed last May.

He has left it a bit late. He is moving early next month. Depending on work commitments he may be able to take lessons and the test over here.
I'm just checking to see what options are open to him.

Is it possible for him to go over next month and apply for the provisional and theory test?
I think really what he wants is to start taking lessons now that he can afford them.

Marcusm

You can apply for the provisional and theory test straight away. The theory test isn't too hard (I got 100%) provided you buy the question book - it has the whole 900 pr so questions that can come up. The video game part is more tricky. As regards Tge actual test, I think on tge day you have to sign a declaration that you have been resident in the UK for the prior 6 months.

Edit: the rule for newly arrived EEA citizens is that they must have been resident in the UK for 185 days out of past 12 months before he can sit the driving test. So he will have at least 6 months to practice before his first test!!!

wonski

It only takes money to get provisional license over there. No need to pass any tests, however your insurance is void if you drive on your own. Car is towed away, and court will impose ban, and penalty points. Better not be tempted to do it, as the Police over there is very strict on this.

Raskolnikov

wonski wrote: »

It only takes money to get provisional license over there. No need to pass any tests, however your insurance is void if you drive on your own. Car is towed away, and court will impose ban, and penalty points. Better not be tempted to do it, as the Police over there is very strict on this.

Yep, can't stress the not being insured thing enough. On top of that, you will also get 3-6 points on any future official licence you get, a £5,000 fine, and possibly a disqualification.

The good thing about about being on a Learner Permit in the UK is that you can apply for your full test immediately. As for applying for a Learner Permit, he should be able to apply almost straight away assuming he has a proof of ID (passport) and proof of address (bank letter, utility bill, solicitor's letter).

Marcusm

Also should have mentioned that he will need to surrender his passport to the DVLA to get the provisional driving licence. Only takes a couple of weeks to get it back but a hassle if you travel regularly.

tuxy

Raskolnikov wrote: »

The good thing about about being on a Learner Permit in the UK is that you can apply for your full test immediately.

Unless you just moved over, then you have to wait 185 days
Thanks guys, I have all the info now

keithclancy

Marcusm wrote: »

Also should have mentioned that he will need to surrender his passport to the DVLA to get the provisional driving licence. Only takes a couple of weeks to get it back but a hassle if you travel regularly.

I would like to see that written down someplace as a Foreign Authority has no right to withhold your Passport for any amount of time that is not reasonable and also has no right to treat you differently to any other Citizen of that state, assuming of course your are normally resident there.

This is why, for example, you have to apply for a Visa when you are at home and not in a foreign country as you have absolutely no way of identifying yourself.

wonski

keithclancy wrote: »

I would like to see that written down someplace as a Foreign Authority has no right to withhold your Passport for any amount of time that is not reasonable and also has no right to treat you differently to any other Citizen of that state, assuming of course your are normally resident there.

This is why, for example, you have to apply for a Visa when you are at home and not in a foreign country as you have absolutely no way of identifying yourself.

OP already knows all he wanted to know, but as you insist to complicate simple things:
OP's brother isnt normally resident there
they withhold his passport for reasonable amount of time needed to process his application and confirm his identity, and he's not going to be treatend differently.

As for your last argument - you apply for a Visa before you go away, as you need visa before you travel to the country, unless you are asylum seeker. Not because you cant prove who you are.

Marcusm

keithclancy wrote: »

I would like to see that written down someplace as a Foreign Authority has no right to withhold your Passport for any amount of time that is not reasonable and also has no right to treat you differently to any other Citizen of that state, assuming of course your are normally resident there.

This is why, for example, you have to apply for a Visa when you are at home and not in a foreign country as you have absolutely no way of identifying yourself.

Jeez Louise, you must be in a more efficient Euro country.

Basically they need to check the original ID document. If it's a UK passport, they have trained up the post office staff to do it over the counter for a premium fee. Otherwise, UK citizens ave to send theirs off as well. The procedure is necessary and proportionate, which is what is required. if you think that's ad, the processin time for a UK residence card for an EEA citizen is 6 months although you can ask for your passport back with 2 weeks notice. There's no requirement to get the residence card which is why most people are unfamiliar with it.

keithclancy

wonski wrote: »

OP already knows all he wanted to know, but as you insist to complicate simple things:
OP's brother isnt normally resident there
they withhold his passport for reasonable amount of time needed to process his application and confirm his identity, and he's not going to be treatend differently.

As for your last argument - you apply for a Visa before you go away, as you need visa before you travel to the country, unless you are asylum seeker. Not because you cant prove who you are.

1. Its illegal (Personal Experience with the Immigratie- en Naturalisatiedienst and a case number with the European Commision) Seriously, you would be off your nut to surrender your passport to a Driving License office.

2. You can apply in any country within the European Union with the same documentation as a local national with an Electronic format Birth certificate and an Apostille stamp. This has to be recognised as it has been endorsed by the Department of Foreign affairs.

3. As long as you have a NI Number and a Bank account with an address you can work away fine, I know of 3 people here (1 with a Dutch Passport) that is flying over and back to do their lessons to get their license, they dont even ask for bank account information.

4. You can travel to the Country on a Visitors Visa or Temporary working visa and then apply for a Permanent visa, however you cannot do it there due to not having Identification while waiting for it, you can even travel to a Schengen Country and apply for it there to wait while its being processed.

5. A ton of EU Nationals living in the UK don't even hold a Passport.

If you do have issues applying for something because your not from the UK then open a case with Solvit:
http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/

Free and very helpful.

wonski

keithclancy wrote: »

1. Its illegal (Personal Experience with the Immigratie- en Naturalisatiedienst and a case number with the European Commision) Seriously, you would be off your nut to surrender your passport to a Driving License office.

2. You can apply in any country within the European Union with the same documentation as a local national with an Electronic format Birth certificate and an Apostille stamp. This has to be recognised as it has been endorsed by the Department of Foreign affairs.

3. As long as you have a NI Number and a Bank account with an address you can work away fine, I know of 3 people here (1 with a Dutch Passport) that is flying over and back to do their lessons to get their license, they dont even ask for bank account information.

4. You can travel to the Country on a Visitors Visa or Temporary working visa and then apply for a Permanent visa, however you cannot do it there due to not having Identification while waiting for it, you can even travel to a Schengen Country and apply for it there to wait while its being processed.

5. A ton of EU Nationals living in the UK don't even hold a Passport.

If you do have issues applying for something because your not from the UK then open a case with Solvit:
http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/

Free and very helpful.

We are goin off topic now but have to answer, as I lived in UK for over 3 years:

1 I did have Passport, sent it there, and did not see it as a problem. Saved me a hassle of going into DVLA office. Sent application, and received licence pretty quickly, along with my passport.

2 I did have passport, and didn't have Electronic format birth certificate, whatever it is. Don't know what it is really, so easier for me to send passport

3 Why would someone travel, spend time and money to get a license in the country they don't reside normally? Disqualification is only reason i can think of...

4 Not relevant at all, and EEA resident does not need a visa in UK, so what is the problem here?

5 No, they don't, but they have their national ID card instead, which is recognized in UK.

Never had any issues applying for anything over there, it was a lot simplier there, than in Ireland, not to mention my home country(Poland).

corktina

tuxy wrote: »

He knows being unaccompanied on a provisional over there is unacceptable.

not acceptable here either.

tuxy

corktina wrote: »

not acceptable here either.

Consequences are different though.

keithclancy

wonski wrote: »

We are goin off topic now but have to answer, as I lived in UK for over 3 years:

1 I did have Passport, sent it there, and did not see it as a problem. Saved me a hassle of going into DVLA office. Sent application, and received licence pretty quickly, along with my passport.

If they lose it, your screwed, not only is it expensive and a pain in the arse, you lose a few passports and you'll only get short term validity passport.

2 I did have passport, and didn't have Electronic format birth certificate, whatever it is. Don't know what it is really, so easier for me to send passport

Basically it means printed rather than hand written, then you get it stamped here (if your Irish anyway, can also go to your Embassy/Consulate)
http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=268

3 Why would someone travel, spend time and money to get a license in the country they don't reside normally? Disqualification is only reason i can think of...

Driving license in the Netherlands costs around 2500 euros.

5 No, they don't, but they have their national ID card instead, which is recognized in UK.

Never had any issues applying for anything over there, it was a lot simplier there, than in Ireland, not to mention my home country(Poland)

Yes I would say so, alot of Expats always maintain that everything in the UK is easier than in Germany, but they never would send away their Passport to the DVLA

http://www.bitterwallet.com/dvla-act-unlawfully-whilst-losing-your-letters-and-blaming-you-for-it/29151

Marcusm

keithclancy wrote: »

Driving license in the Netherlands costs around 2500 euros.
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Not sure that would be a good reason to make a number of false declarations including giving a false address to obtain the provisional licence (serious as the licence is a specified ID item for anti money laundering and counter terrorism rules). I doubt you'd get far with a complaint to the Euro Commission as the person is hardly exercising treaty rights if they're only flying in.

I suspect that on a close inspection, any licence obtained on this basis would be invalid.

Update: just looked it up, 2 years in chokey for making the false declaration to obtain the licence (section 174 Road Traffic Act 1988). Interesting to know if this would deter your friend from flying in.

TwoShedsJackson

tuxy wrote: »

Consequences are different though.

Plus it's regularly enforced.

tuxy

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Plus it's regularly enforced.

Yeah that's the main thing. Unless you do something else that's illegal you can talk your way out of it here with most guards.