Wooden frame house/ insulation

jamesjustjames

I live in a wooden frame house- built 1997.
.
It is supposed to be well insulated, but the insulation was done very poorly.

The attic was insulated under the roof i.e. rigid insulation boards fitted between the rafters. The boards were badly cut and gaps were left. I have filled as many of the gaps as possible, as well as laying insulation on the attic floor.

There is also supposed to be insulation between the studs of the wooden frame walls. However, when I was getting a window put in a couple of years ago, I found that there was no insulation behind the plasterboard in parts of the wall.

Because of this, and the poor workmanship in the attic, I suspect that insulation missing in much of the external walls, as the house loses too much heat when there is any wind.

My question- is there any device which can detect insulation behind plasterboard, or would I have to poke holes all over the walls to find whether or not there is insulation behind it? Has anyone out there had similar problems and what did you do?

MicktheMan

Yes, thermal imaging survey will do it.

Vote 4 Pedro

I also live in a Timber framed house and wondering about extra insulation.
Can I ask who was the builder, you can pm me if you don't want to name them online.

ronan45

I have the same thing. I poked holes through the internal Stud walls between the bedrooms. They are literally just air voids. No insulation was used at all. Would this be standard practice? I didnt check the walls that are on the on the outter walls just the internal hollow walls

BryanF

Vote 4 Pedro wrote: »

I also live in a Timber framed house and wondering about extra insulation.
Can I ask who was the builder, you can pm me if you don't want to name them online.

i'd go for a consultation with an architect first.. someone who can assess the walls due point and provide the best option / location for additional insulation + there's no harm in having a spec & a few details on paper for when your looking for quotes from builders

BryanF

ronan45 wrote: »

Would this be standard practice? I didnt check the walls that are on the on the outter walls just the internal hollow walls

internal walls do not generally have insulation in them

if these were out side walls without insulation and Vapour barrier. this would be worrying non-standard practice, otherwise known as - cowboy practice:)

jamesjustjames

MicktheMan wrote: »

Yes, thermal imaging survey will do it.

Thanks- I was afraid that might be the answer. They seem to be very expensive yokes to hire

jamesjustjames

Vote 4 Pedro wrote: »

I also live in a Timber framed house and wondering about extra insulation.
Can I ask who was the builder, you can pm me if you don't want to name them online.

PM sent

braintoxic

What thickness are your studs ?

bubbuz

BryanF wrote: »

this would be worrying non-standard practice, otherwise known as - cowboy practice:)

Unfortunately the majority of work carried out during the boom was " cowboy work " . Im a groundworker and was mortified at some of the things I witnessed on site's, trouble was if you tried to say anything or do the job properly then a p45 would magically appear or at least the threat of one. I feel for anyone who's having probs with a home built during the boom.

jamesjustjames

braintoxic wrote: »

What thickness are your studs ?

4x2

jamesjustjames

BryanF wrote: »

i'd go for a consultation with an architect first.. someone who can assess the walls due point and provide the best option / location for additional insulation + there's no harm in having a spec & a few details on paper for when your looking for quotes from builders

The wooden frame has plywood and what I presume is a breathable barrier outside i.e a woven cover. Should this reduce the chance of condensation and damp if I added to the wall insulation? Or would it still be necessary to calculate the dew point.

If I go to the trouble of breaking through plasterboard, I was thinking of increasing the amount of insulation

braintoxic

Ur problem is in the joists

BryanF

jamesjustjames wrote: »

The wooden frame has plywood and what

1. I presume is a breathable barrier outside i.e a woven cover.
2. Should this reduce the chance of condensation and damp
3. if I added to the wall insulation? Or would it still be necessary to calculate the dew point.
4. If I go to the trouble of breaking through plasterboard, I was thinking of increasing the amount of insulation

1. the plywood is a racking board, which should have water resistant (but breathable) paper outside it. now forget about this element and worry about what is inside this layer. that element is staying put and should not need to be disturbed:)
2. you require a vapour barrier on the inside of you insulation. this is what reduces moisture entering your wall. is there a vapour barrier behind the plasterboard? if not the builders were probably relying on a foil backed plasterboard. imo this is not adequate where insulation is installed correctly. this VB layer can be solved after you take down the plasterboard anyway.
3. maybe not (I'm not a fan of poly based insulations, is this the rigid insulation that is installed? I say this as it has differnt properties to the timber studs that surround it). I would be reluctant to install more insulation without ensuring that there is a vapour barrier, properly taped and sealed on the inside of it.. this includes sockets basically continuous barrier between the inside and your wall build-up.
4. I would do so as well. but do not put in insulation that has better thermal properties, than the existing wall insulation. and do consider the vapour barrier carefully - think floor and ceiling levels, windows, penetrations etc and note that with increased air-tightness that (because of the vapour barrier) you may need to consider your ventilation strategy further.

this is why its worth while to have both a builder that is used to timber frame but also an architect in your corner with drawings and details agreed between you and your preferred builder. from a price and quality control perspective

jamesjustjames

BryanF wrote: »

[/LIST]

1. the plywood is a racking board, which should have water resistant (but breathable) paper outside it. now forget about this element and worry about what is inside this layer. that element is staying put and should not need to be disturbed:)
2. you require a vapour barrier on the inside of you insulation. this is what reduces moisture entering your wall. is there a vapour barrier behind the plasterboard? if not the builders were probably relying on a foil backed plasterboard. imo this is not adequate where insulation is installed correctly. this VB layer can be solved after you take down the plasterboard anyway.
3. maybe not (I'm not a fan of poly based insulations, is this the rigid insulation that is installed? I say this as it has differnt properties to the timber studs that surround it). I would be reluctant to install more insulation without ensuring that there is a vapour barrier, properly taped and sealed on the inside of it.. this includes sockets basically continuous barrier between the inside and your wall build-up.
4. I would do so as well. but do not put in insulation that has better thermal properties, than the existing wall insulation. and do consider the vapour barrier carefully - think floor and ceiling levels, windows, penetrations etc and note that with increased air-tightness that (because of the vapour barrier) you may need to consider your ventilation strategy further.

this is why its worth while to have both a builder that is used to timber frame but also an architect in your corner with drawings and details agreed between you and your preferred builder. from a price and quality control perspective

Thanks for that.

There is no vapour barrier behind the plasterboard, nor is it foil backed. The insulation is rigid board Kingspan, with foil on both sides (about 50mm, I think).

Except, of course, where there is none at all- where I just have plasterboard and plywood to keep the heat in!

My priority is to find out just how much of my exterior walls have no insulation at all. If I had to go tearing down plasterboard, I though that I might add some more, but that is not my priority.

I had a 3 page snag list when I bought the house in 1997. I could have added another 3 pages with things that I found after we had moved in.

Award winning builders, my arse!

Cornwall

I have an issue with little breezes coming from electrical outlets in the house. Both light switches and sockets Some upstairs and a couple down stairs during bad weather. The house is timber frame. Any Ideas why this might be- I would really appreciate.

BryanF

Cornwall wrote: »

I have an issue with little breezes coming from electrical outlets in the house. Both light switches and sockets Some upstairs and a couple down stairs during bad weather. The house is timber frame. Any Ideas why this might be- I would really appreciate.

when was the house built?
really there should be a continuous air-tightness/vapour barrier behind all these penetrations of the building envelope

Cornwall

The House was built in 2005/2006.
The house is a one off. Detached. Built on site. Not factory made parts which
I think make of the majority timber frame houses in Ireland. The builder was semi local to me with a very good reputation. Had being building timber frame for many years - on site.Block exterior was as usual.

BryanF

so its remedial methods of draft sealing.. i'd recommend going on a one day air-tightness course and also researching suitable air-tight socket backings. and plenty of silicone:)

unfortunately, our specifiers and builders (even some of the good ones) were not installing adequate VB/ air-tightness membranes in recent years. see figure 13

Cornwall

Thank You Very Much Brian F. I will study the document and consider the course.
One last question - do you think this can affect the structure of the house more fundamentally ? - i.e all you hear about "dew point" etc with regard to timber frame homes. ?

BryanF

Cornwall wrote: »

Thank You Very Much Brian F. I will study the document and consider the course.
One last question - do you think this can affect the structure of the house more fundamentally ? - i.e all you hear about "dew point" etc with regard to timber frame homes. ?

its possible but unlikely to be a major issue as we have not exactly got a history of installing the tightness fitted insulation or racking board so the walls are probably breathing ok.. if your concerned pick the most humid part of your house, maybe behind furniture and open up a small section of wall and inspect..

Cornwall

Thank you again.

Springcabbage

Hi,

Just wondering did you get sorted

I also live in a timber frame really bad insulation.

The question I have is that the top of the house is plaster and bottom red brick.

Kids are getting sick their rooms are freezing at night time it's terrible.

Just wondering could I get external insulation and keep the brick work on the bottom

Rgds springcabbage

jamesjustjames

Springcabbage wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering did you get sorted

I also live in a timber frame really bad insulation.

The question I have is that the top of the house is plaster and bottom red brick.

Kids are getting sick their rooms are freezing at night time it's terrible.

Just wondering could I get external insulation and keep the brick work on the bottom

Rgds springcabbage

If it is a timber frame, I doubt that you can get external insulation.

There is a ventilated gap between the timber frame and the brick/ block exterior. This would have to remain. If you had exterior insulation, you would still lose heat to this ventilation gap.

If the bedrooms are very cold, have you checked if there is attic insulation? I had about 75mm insulation in the rafters, just under the roof itself. HOwever, in windy weather, the wind just whistled through the attic, taking the heat with it. I put insulation on the attic floor, which improved things for the bedrooms.

A friend is trying to track down a thermal imaging camera for me. If he can't, I might just go and get a BER

Springcabbage

Hi jamesjustjames

That's great thanks I have a good friend who can get me panels for the attic so i will start there.the thermal imaging sounds interesting but I don't think I need to do that as all my Walls are cold all the time.

With the recent weather the wind is coming through the sockets now as well!!! It's so frustrating.

I just dont know what to do with the drafts if you have any ideas it would be greatly appreciated

Rgds

Springcabbage

BryanF

jamesjustjames wrote: »

A friend is trying to track down a thermal imaging camera for me. If he can't, I might just go and get a BER

i would recommend employing someone with a thermal imaging camera that is used to interpreting the data, I would also suggest that a arch or arch tech, who also has BER experience would be better placed to help than just a BER assessor.

Springcabbage
what sort of panels are you referring too?

unfortunately lads the hardest thing with yer situations is to come to terms with the disruption that is necessary to make any lasting different to the thermal comfort and draft issues in yer homes.
if DIY'ing why not tackle one or two rooms at a time, taking down the plaster board, insulating with preferable breathable natural insulating materials, then placing further insulation on the inside (maybe T&G wood-fibre boards with joints taped with high quality air-tightness tape), then re plasterboard. don't for get to seal the floors, floor junctions and to ceilings, when doing this

I'd start here & here, take a look here, be cognisant that buildings are now getting this much insulation and also consider that even if DIY'ing it would best if you had any wall build-up checked by an arch to check if your preferred solution suits its situation

jamesjustjames

BryanF wrote: »

i would recommend employing someone with a thermal imaging camera that is used to interpreting the data, I would also suggest that a arch or arch tech, who also has BER experience would be better placed to help than just a BER assessor.

.
unfortunately lads the hardest thing with yer situations is to come to terms with the disruption that is necessary to make any lasting different to the thermal comfort and draft issues in yer homes.
if DIY'ing why not tackle one or two rooms at a time, taking down the plaster board, insulating with preferable breathable natural insulating materials, then placing further insulation on the inside (maybe T&G wood-fibre boards with joints taped with high quality air-tightness tape), then re plasterboard. don't for get to seal the floors, floor junctions and to ceilings, when doing this

I'd start here & here, take a look here, be cognisant that buildings are now getting this much insulation and also consider that even if DIY'ing it would best if you had any wall build-up checked by an arch to check if your preferred solution suits its situation

Thanks.

I am coming to the same conclusion. I have done all the obvious, easily done stuff at this stage.

Herself wants a big decoration/ upgrade of the downstairs, so I will look into it as part of same job.

creaghadoos

going tomorrow morning to buy a box of caulk to make a start on sealing up my draught problems.
during the tiger years, houses were built by the sort of bastard that should be shot, and i have bought one of those houses

Springcabbage

Hi Brian f

Thanks for the info all great I have been offline the last couple of days so only coming back now

I am getting into the eves this week so going to start there as I know that's where alot of the problem is

I am also going to lay down insulating panels on the attic floor ( which is already done but with only about 50mm)

I will keep you posted

Btw happy new year

Springcabbage

Hi creagados

That a good idea I did it last year and it solved the air coming from under the skirts but the problem dies nt stop there as the air has to travel somewhere that's now why I am tackling the eves this week

BryanF

Springcabbage wrote: »

Hi Brian f

Thanks for the info all great I have been offline the last couple of days so only coming back now

I am getting into the eves this week so going to start there as I know that's where alot of the problem is

I am also going to lay down insulating panels on the attic floor ( which is already done but with only about 50mm)

I will keep you posted

Btw happy new year

dont forget to keep a minimum of 50mm ventilation from eaves vents and between felt and any insulation

Cornwall

Hi Again,
Posted a few weeks back re little breezes sometimes coming from electrical outlets in timber frame homes.
There is an additional issue. I am posting on day of bad storm Jan 3rd...and When I stand upstairs you can sometimes feel vibrations during extreme windy gusts... also when you touch the walls you can sometimes feel this. So does this mean the support structure of the house is under threat\being weakened as this takes all the load?
Would it be normal for timber frame during extremly bad storms to feel this? Its a 2 storey house on its own...on a exposed site. Having grown up in a terrace block house -this would be new to me. I know that block houses are more static and wood is not so but I would appreciate any opinions re Is there something up with this house?

Springcabbage

Hi cornwall,

That sound mad it was a ad nightlast night but thing are holing down my end!!!
I dont have any experience in this probably get a tech head in all the best with it!!

Springcabbage

Hi bryanF

Just going to lay down Kingspan on the floor of the attic its a dormer so working on the eves at the w/end

Springcabbage

Hi Bryan

Forgot to mention I went around all the windows today and started using some clear silicone to fill in gaps (loads of them!!!) doing upstairs tomorrow busy busy!!!

Springcabbage

Hi bryan f
I am back again I have done all the windows outside and under the sills on the inside looks good and there seems to be an improvement

Just a quick one I am doing up a room in the house and before I get it done I was thinking of taking down the current plasterboard and putting up some thermal panels

What do you think it's brick on the outside with the timber frame and about 50mm insulation then the slab

Do you think it's worth doing and if so which panels do you think should use

Cheers

BryanF

Springcabbage wrote: »

Hi bryan f
I am back again I have done all the windows outside and under the sills on the inside looks good and there seems to be an improvement

Just a quick one I am doing up a room in the house and before I get it done I was thinking of taking down the current plasterboard and putting up some thermal panels

What do you think it's brick on the outside with the timber frame and about 50mm insulation then the slab

Do you think it's worth doing and if so which panels do you think should use

Cheers

so 100mm brick, 50mm air cavity, 50mm insulation in the timber frame? how thick is the timber frame? what type of insulation is in there currently?

i would probably recommend something like this, while it will be more expensive than petroleum based insulation, its breathable and natural (like what is probably there already) so less chance of moisture build-up