Sequencing / Steps for self build

brendan_donegal

Guys,
Ploughing along with house build roof on, windows and external doors ordered, facia, soffit and guttering coming soon.

Just getting to inside work and I have a question on sequencing:

1. At what point do I get the screeding down? I know obviously the floor insulation and UFH pipes must be down but what about plasterboard and drylining? Should they be in the house or do I do those after the screeding?

Carlow52

after as they will get damaged and u also need to seal between pb and floor

Have u perimeter insulation in mind as well as floor?

brendan_donegal

perimeter insulation, yes I think so, goes around the perimeter of the floor insulationa and sits upright?

How do you seal between pb and floor? I thought that was the job of the skirting to hide this small gap?

brendan_donegal

Guys/Ladies,
Need some help with sequence of steps, is the below correct?

1. Facia/soffit/guttering/barge board
2. Windows and doors
3. External plastering
4. Electric first fix
5. Plumbing first fix
6. Floor & perimeter insulation
7. UFH pipes
8. Screeding
9. First fix joinery
10. Drylining & plasterboard
11. Plastering - internal

Also is there anything I am leaving out?

sydthebeat

threads merged.

brendan, do not open multiple threads on the same topic.

BryanF

brendan_donegal wrote: »

Guys/Ladies,
Need some help with sequence of steps, is the below correct?

Also is there anything I am leaving out?

provisional BER rating + kwh/m2, expected air-change rate, insulation, thermal bridging, provisional air-tightness test before closing up, door threshold details and ffl level when considering ufh, heat loss when considering underfloor heating, back boiler pipe work, HRV pipework, the list goes on..

brendan_donegal

BryanF wrote: »

provisional BER rating + kwh/m2, expected air-change rate, insulation, thermal bridging, provisional air-tightness test before closing up, door threshold details and ffl level when considering ufh, heat loss when considering underfloor heating, back boiler pipe work, HRV pipework, the list goes on..

1. BER Rating - Thought this was done at the end or near the end?
2. expected air change rate - I assume my HRV installer will do this (covered by plumbler)
3. Thermal bridging - How is this a step? Is this not something that needs to be taken into account by various trades and avoided?
4. provisional air-tightness test before closing up - Whats is this for?
5. door threshold details and ffl level when considering ufh - Taken into account by block layer and window guy having a chat and have agreed levels
6. heat loss when considering underfloor heating - I assume my plumber will do what is necessary for UFH install
7. back boiler pipe work & HRV pipework - included in plumbers quote so covered in plumbing first fix

sydthebeat

brendan_donegal wrote: »

1. BER Rating - Thought this was done at the end or near the end?
2. expected air change rate - I assume my HRV installer will do this (covered by plumbler)
3. Thermal bridging - How is this a step? Is this not something that needs to be taken into account by various trades and avoided?
4. provisional air-tightness test before closing up - Whats is this for?
5. door threshold details and ffl level when considering ufh - Taken into account by block layer and window guy having a chat and have agreed levels
6. heat loss when considering underfloor heating - I assume my plumber will do what is necessary for UFH install
7. back boiler pipe work & HRV pipework - included in plumbers quote so covered in plumbing first fix

1. the legal requirement is for you to have obtained a BER certficate prior to occupation. this is a requirement which is completely seperate from building regulations. You must carry out a provisoinal BER prior to commencemnet to find out what you actually need to do to comply with the building regulations. Otherwise you have no idea that the construction specification you are building is 'good enough' to comply. Best get this sorted straight away.

2. God no!. The air change rate is dependent of how good your construction is and what you do to ensure as best air tightness as possible. you must have an air tightness test carried out when you complete the house, but that wont help you get the best result you can. Personally i would feel installing a MHRV sysem into a house with an air change rate of worse than say, 0.15, to be a waste of money.

3. its a step because it should be something you have consider at every possible detail junction. Therefore its best to know what you are doing before you start. There are accrediated standard details on the DOE website.

4. this is for you to find out where the vulnerable points are in your build. When you see the test in action you will be very surprised how leaky your build is. By doing the test before you apply wet plaster, you can take remedial measures to close up the gaps.

5. make sure the door detail is correct to incorporate adequate insulation, adequate radon membrane and no thermal bridge.

6 UFH requires a higher level of insulation that a rad system, has this been accounted for?

7. does your plumber quote you for the best possible course of action, or the cheapest way to do it? What way are the HRV pipes to be networked?

BryanF

1. yes, but it is cheaper and easier to comply with if you take account of it before you start to build
2. NO, you either employ and air-tightness contractor or its your problem, no mvhr installer will take responsibility for air-tightness
3. 'various trades'
4. so you can rectify any issues - its not that easy when everything is hidden/closed up!
5. did they take account of air-tightness at windows/doors also?
6. don't assume this
7. have you a spec, drawing on the hrv systenm? also who seals penetrations made by plumber?

brendan_donegal

1. My architect says we have done more than enough to be compliant and of course he has to stand over that. 100mm cavity insulation, 52.5mm dry lining, triple glazed windows with 90mm insulated frame, etc , etc
2. ok, I suppose that makes sense, I will prob get this sorted soon then, any idea of costs for this process? €100's?
3. Yes I am a funny guy!! inexperienced more than funny as I think you were pointing out....:-) I trust they guys I have on-site so far local well trained, architect was praising their work and he has no connection, So I think I am ok on this.
4. I am now assuming this is same as point 2? So same reply
5. Yep, they have both agreed what needs to be done, got them both to sit down and discuss in detail. Both were happy with all points.
6. In addition to measures in point 1, there is also 120mm of floor insulation with 25mm strip against all block walls to above level of screed to meet drylining.
7. I will, I learned along time ago to seal holes after work men, I am in the IT business and we needed to ensure this sort of thing for datacentres, You wouldn't believe the holes some guys leave!!

I appreciate all the comments by the way, really get allot out of the boards...

BryanF

1. you know who to question about all this then:)
2. could be 1-3g it depends on what needs to be done, you generally have them in for discussions with window installers and other trades (once they finish taping, you do a provisional air-test, that way the other trades coming after them are responsible for ensuring that standard is maintained) -but there a cost and that's why some self-builders go on a course and attempt it themselves.
3. You are the project manager: assume nothing, put everything in writing, make sure everyone is clear on their responsibilities and liabilities... as it stands, it sounds like your happy to take the blame if it all goes to sh...
4. if you are putting in MVHR you want the lowest air-change possible otherwise your pissing your money away! you are the project manager, assume nothing..
5. have you a clear delineation between the trades for when there is air-leakage, water ingress or mould due to thermal bridges??
6. thats the very min that should be provided.
7. there are good and bad mvhr systems out there but their installation, planning and materials used are of the utmost importance. get dwgs and spec done quick, start talking to the better companies on the market for pitfalls/ issues/ associated with mvhr.

brendan_donegal

My builder suggested I do my screed floors last after drylining and plastering has been completed, any opinions?

brendan_donegal

Really could do with something on this, if anyone would like to contribute?

sydthebeat

does he intend pouring wet concrete along the base of plasterboard?

brendan_donegal

sydthebeat wrote: »

does he intend pouring wet concrete along the base of plasterboard?

I assume so, he said they would mark out the ffl with a piece of 2x4 then dryline from there up. Then you would pour the floors last.

Is there a reason they would do this? I would of thought logically you would work up the ways unless when your then putting in the drylining board it would be too tight? I have no idea.

I assume there are a few ways?

sydthebeat

for your own information.... leave a piece of plasterboard in bowl of water for and hour and see what happens...

sas

brendan_donegal wrote: »

I assume so, he said they would mark out the ffl with a piece of 2x4 then dryline from there up. Then you would pour the floors last.

Is there a reason they would do this? I would of thought logically you would work up the ways unless when your then putting in the drylining board it would be too tight? I have no idea.

I assume there are a few ways?

My thought when I read your builders suggestion is that he's trying to save himself hassle\time keeping the screed clean. I can't think of any other reason to do it that way.

Logic would dictate a ground up approach as you suggested.

As Syd has said though, plasterboard and moisture don't play well together.

BryanF

possible solution: inform builder he can go ahead, if he uses wet-room grade plasterboard throughout the house:D

cookie1234

Assuming you had been foolish enough to complete drylining and plastering before the screed floors have gone in (like I have!!!!) what steps could you take to protect the plasterboard?

brendan_donegal

Guys just to be sure, we are talking about the dry version of screed flooring. Not the self leveling watery stuff....does it matter? How dry is the dry stuff, some of the screeders I talk to say it is very dry...this true?

I have been talking to screed guys and plaster guys over the christmas break and they all say that I should plasterboard/drylining, and skim before doing the floors. Floors should be done last.

"It always been done that way"
"Thats the way its done"
"Its worked that way for as long as I can remember"

Any opinions?

Poor Uncle Tom

It's a simple issue as I see it.

I would not like to see a plasterboard slab in a position where the chalk element of the slab can soak moisture from a poured screed. There is no 'dry' screed, just screeds with varying amounts of water in them, the more water the easier they are to work.

brendan_donegal

ok given that everyone on this forum agrees that it should be done before the dry lining and the plastering, how do we keep the floor from getting damaged or covered in plaster?

BryanF

are leaving the concrete floor finish exposed or am I missing something?

bakerbhoy

brendan_donegal wrote: »

ok given that everyone on this forum agrees that it should be done before the dry lining and the plastering, how do we keep the floor from getting damaged or covered in plaster?

the old builders way was to dust the floor heavily with sand before plastering...like flour when working dough

BryanF

use a scraper?

muffler

Lay some polythene sheeting or alternatively just get a couple of dozen fertilizer bags from one of the local farmers.

brendan_donegal

Well, been talking to my screed guy, plasterer, dryliner and architect, they all say screed floor goes in last. Then pack the inch or two gap (between floor and drylining) with insulation when finished.

So thats what I'm doing. Appreciate all the feedback

sydthebeat

brendan, i asked

does he intend pouring wet concrete along the base of plasterboard?

you said

i assume so

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


How do they intend on levelling the screed? what marker are they working off?
PS there is no such thing as a dry screed. It obviously has to be wet enough to levell

Slig

If the walls are all blockwork and you are plastering the walls with bonding and skimcoat then by all means leave the screed until after but if you are stabbing the walls with insulation backed paperboard then put the floor in first.

Plasterboard is fairly fragile and absorbs moisture, while your screed is curing it gives off moisture and the levelling of the actual screed with boards, powerscreeds or other tools can easily mean your slabs get damaged.

'That's the way it's been done for as long as I can remember' doesn't really cut it anymore. With houses becoming more air tight, warmer and more insulated the attention to detail has to be focused on more. A blocked vent or slab of insulation missing from a 1990s or early 2000s house wouldn't make much overall difference as the house would be less insulated and better ventilated overall where as in a house built to today's standard it would almost certainly result in mould and fungal growth.

The regulations today require a much more controlled and calculated approach to building a house, 10 years ago you just put a standard wall vent in every room but now we calculate the actual air Change rate required, you could put loads of insulation in your roof and f-all in the walls and floor and still comply with the regs but now we have to take a more balanced overall approach to insulation. With everything becoming more scientific in the design of the house the actual
building practices have to follow suit, as someone already pointed out things like holes for services can't just be 'kangoed' out anymore, window opes have to be accurately built as it unacceptable to just lash in a window unit and fill in the large gaps with a can of foam. Things like mortar droppings in cavities, omission of cold bridge insulation and dpcs WILL now result in damp and mould growth. What Ip'm trying to say is that building practices have to adapt, in the last 10 year's The focus has been on speed and convenience over attention to detail.

New build in sight

I know this is perhaps an old thread now, but by any chance if anyone is still following thread could they list in full the flow of works from beginning to end on a new build.

i.e. what steps to take from start to finish for a new build. If this is a big ask then perhaps someone can direct me to somewhere that this may be listed.

Many thanks

muffler

New build in sight wrote: »

I know this is perhaps an old thread now, but by any chance if anyone is still following thread could they list in full the flow of works from beginning to end on a new build.

i.e. what steps to take from start to finish for a new build. If this is a big ask then perhaps someone can direct me to somewhere that this may be listed.

Many thanks

If you dont mind me asking...have you retained the services of a professional yet?

ELP

PM sent.
Hope it is of help.

New build in sight

muffler wrote: »

New build in sight wrote: »

I know this is perhaps an old thread now, but by any chance if anyone is still following thread could they list in full the flow of works from beginning to end on a new build.

i.e. what steps to take from start to finish for a new build. If this is a big ask then perhaps someone can direct me to somewhere that this may be listed.

Many thanks

If you dont mind me asking...have you retained the services of a professional yet?

A professional what? We've had assistance from engineers builders contractors architects etc. But I think it would be very helpful to us to know as much if not more so we are always one step ahead. We are going direct so the link that was PM'd to me was great and very useful.
Thank you.

card123

any chance of bring pm'd this link as well

brendan_donegal

On original question, I went ahead with my own decison based on loads of discussions with all, which was to complete plastering then complete the screed floors.

All good, everything went well, no water/moisture issues with plaster board.
And the mess of the plastering...I'm glad I had not got my screed floor down.

Moving on with build at lightning speed now....
My tips:
1. Be organised, have all trades and their materials ready well before required
2. Ask loads of questions until you are clear on what needs to be done
3. Be patient and accertive....